Rapid playing: Loss of control?

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 02:18 PM

Right on, Bobert.

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 01:15 PM

Younger and less experienced players tend to play too much, too loud and too fast... Who ever is leading the jam need to step up and now and then and remind the culprits that it ain't a rumble, it's music...

B~

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 01:10 PM

Apart from the obvious fact that sessions aren't dances*, the reel point is cooperation. A session is a conversation between players, and in any conversation it's simply bad manners not to accommodate the other person's interests as far as you can. Hence where there's a reasonable choice of venues (getting rare these\days), they tend to crystallise out according to the players. The high- power players don't go to the slower sessions, and the beginners soon learn their mistake if they choose the supersession. The majority of us drift inbetween, playing as well as we can with the big boys, and enjoying playing with and even teaching those who struggle a bit.

* Dancers have turned up to some sessions I've been to, and insisted that the musicians play the way they want for dancing. They are usually as welcome as a didgeridoo player with an empty wallet.

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 12:42 PM

There are various factors to take into account - some tunes such as 'St Anne's Reel' need to be played fast enough to hear the tune and not just individual notes. Session tempi, especially in London, tend to be faster than dance tempi, though the size and shape of hall will also influence the speed that the dancers can dance - try dancing to slow hornpipes in a long narrow room. Again, if you play too slow the dancers will fall over!

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 12:34 PM

It's really tunes I'm talking about

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Tootler
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 12:27 PM

Nerves can sometimes play a part. I find sometimes when I sing a song out for the first time, I sing it much too fast and it loses something in the process. I think it's sometimes a matter of get through it before you forget a bit or make a mistake. So the next time, I have to make a conscious effort to slow it down a bit so that I have time to sing the song properly.

The same happens with session tunes as well, sometimes.

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 10:59 AM

About 30 or so years ago, when I started out playing in seshes, at every place tunes were bashed out at full speed & being less experienced then, I thought this was how they should be done - guess I'm not alone with this impression & consequently lots of folk must think this way

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 10:36 AM

Some years back, at sessions up in the US northwest, I noted a fairly rapid migration from the originally popular (within the group) version of a popular piece to a "modified" version that supplanted the first for the simple reason that a couple of the regulars could "play it faster."

The new version was not musically pleasant, it left out a whole lot of notes (and was even uglier if slowed down to a "melodic pace") and it gave no place for other players to insert their own favored "decorations."

We stopped wasting our time with that group shortly after.

(for reference, the main piece that suffered thusly was "Saint Annes Reel")

In one of his interviews Bill Monroe, not known for being a slouch at fast-paced play although in my opinion he left our (or missed?) quite a few of the best notes, was quoted as saying "Most people try to play it (bluegrass) too fast."

The best known (in my area) version of "Whiskey Before Breakfast" is the version played by Mike Cross, with the entire "melody" (such as remains) revamped for more speed and bearing almost no resemblance to traditional versions. Of course few people in his audiences have ever heard, much less played, a traditional version....

Just observations. I probably don't need to offer an opinion on the subject.

John

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 10:26 AM

One of the nicest favors you can do to a good song is trim back the tempo and let it be formed at a more leisurely pace. It usually makes the song much richer and more understandable.

A

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 10:22 AM

Ah, but which half?

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: GUEST,Don Wise
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 09:49 AM

Somebody once told me that playing fast meant that you could leave out half the notes because the ears of the listeners would fill them in......

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: John P
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 09:43 AM

Actually, it's harder to pay fast with great control and accuracy. It's just that hardly anyone does it, and it's easier to get by with sloppy playing when you're playing so fast that most people can't hear the individual notes. Especially in a session where several people are playing the melody all at once. You don't even have to worry about ornamentation at that speed! :^)

It is true that a group of people who play together regularly can get much more tight by playing slowly and with control. More importantly, quietly enough to hear everyone else clearly.

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 09:36 AM

I've also attended the French sesh, where strangely the tunes are slow - I think due to their very nature.

That's interesting - at the monthly French session I (occasionally) attend down here in Sussex, the tunes are fairly brisk and, IMO, could sometimes do with a little slowing.

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Trevor Thomas
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 09:31 AM

Guest above was me, sorry.

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 09:29 AM

Will is right, the groove is the thing. Fast is good – it can be very exciting – but if the groove's running away with you, it's probably best to take it down a bit.
The other thing is variety. One set of fast reels sounds amazing. Seven in a row, and they lose their impact somewhat. Same goes for slow airs or ballads. I'll happily listen to a ballad, but if it comes after six other ballads, well I'll not be looking forward to it so much. Mid paced minor key jigs? Lovely. Seven sets of mid paced minor key jigs in a row? – starting to get a bit tedious.

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 09:25 AM

Will,

I'm glad you mentioned dance.

There's 2 monthly events here in Chester [UK] for folk to practice:

* playing for dancing

*calling

* dancing

One's mainly tunes & dances in the Playford style, the other's French tunes & dances.

I've been regularly attending the playford sesh & the tunes are frequently done so fast that they don't fit the dances.

To my mind, the callers should set the timings, but they all are wannabe dancers & aren't experienced enough yet to do this.

There's a self appointed 'band leader' with a loudish melodeon, who just can't seem to play anything other than at the speed of lightening!

I've also attended the French sesh, where strangely the tunes are slow - I think due to their very nature.

Subject: RE: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 08:50 AM

Slow is good! In many cases the subtleties and beauty of the tunes are more apparent. And, as you say, more control is necessary at slow speeds - dynamics and careful phrasing are required - more thought, in other words.

For dances, of course, the dance speeds dictate the playing speed. And, now and then, a hell for leather pace can be fun - but more in a rehearsed band context than in an open session, IMO.

I used to play the soul number "6345789" in a funk band. Our bass player and leader, Keith, would slow it right down till it greased and oozed sleazily along - sounded great. Drinks were consumed to it, babies were conceived to it...

Subject: Rapid playing: Loss of control?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 07:34 AM

In many music sessions, the pace at which the tunes are played often result in the melodies getting lost in a wall of noise.

In our sesh which is mixed songs & tunes, we've lately been deliberately been doing tunes much more slowly.

It's great!

Every note can be heard & there's much more opportunity for harmonies & counter melodies to develop.

However, lots have commented how difficult it can be to maintain a slower tempo & it's all to easy to go dashing off to high speed again unless great concentration & discipline is maintained.

Conclusion; it's harder to play more slowly.

An analogy here is of singing, no one tries to sing at breakneck speeds, so why with tunes?

Your thoughts?