Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 01:29 PM

I would accept a digital book if it's one I cannot procure in standard form. Otherwise I prefer the printed word on paper. The joy of the old books I own is thumbing through them. Instead of wondering, "Yick, I wonder who else has touched this" I am fascinated by wondering what hands this book passed through until it finally got to me. I have books from the 16th century. I know guys who have them from the 15th century. I once saw a book with the binding made of human bone, the covers of human skin and the bookmark ribbon was a braid of a prostitute's hair. I've seen books where you bend the open side of the pages and there is a handpainting and if you flip the book over and tilt bend the pages the opposite way, there's a different painting.

In the documentary "Louis Bluie" he shows another bandmember his hand-drawn porno book. Louie was a great artist and calligrapher. I wonder what happened to that book after his death.

I read another guy's account of buying a collection of some author's books and papers at an auction and upon going through it, came across Gerald Gardner's original "Book of Shadows." Gardner founded Wicca and this book was supposed to be some witch thing handed down through the ages. Gardner actually wrote it. He took an old cover and binding from a 19th century book on knives and removed the pages and inserted his own written in his beautiful calligraphy. You would have thought some Wiccnas would have bought it up and taken charge of it. Instead, this guy (who isn't Wiccan) owns it--at least the last I heard.

I have found old flowers, letters, wedding invitations and all kinds of things in old books. One of my prizes is an 1816 clergyman's bible. He wrote all kinds of notes in the margins and stuffed old newspaper clippings regarding floods, pestilences, wars and the latest scientific finds regarding the brain inside the pages. Most of these date from the Civil War. Every devout Christian I have ever showed it to offers to buy it but I won't sell it.

Old books are works of art. Digital can't replace that. I remember going to the rare book room at the Detroit Public Library and reading old alchemical treatises in Latin. You had to wear rubber gloves to turn the pages. I remember going to a library book sale and buying three large books on jazz, Freemasonry and mythology for a whopping $9. The Freemason book was a bible from the 40s. It had been signed by various masons. It was in pristine condition and only $3. When I was in a bookstore that sold rare and old books, I saw another bible exactly like the one I bought except it was tattered and falling apart. They wanted $40 for it.

It's a shame so many libraries are closing their doors and selling off a treasure trove of books at ridiculously cheap prices. It's even more disturbing to read posts from Mudcatter saying "I love my Kindle Fire and wouldn't trade it for all the books in the world." This from people who are supposed to be keeping traditions alive. Instead they watch Idol, think Justin Bieber is equal to Tommy Dorsey and that rap is legitimate music. It makes me realize what a losing battle I'm waging. I guess I should take the advice of others here and bury my head in the sand and cut myself off from the rest of the world and pretend everything and quit griping and pretend everything is fine. A losing battle.

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 04:16 PM

The article linked at 28 May 12 - 09:19 PM on "The Library of Utopia" predicted by inference the decision yesterday that consolidates three separate © lawsuits against Google Books and allows several groups of authors, publishers, and photographers groups to act as a class:

Authors win class status in Google books suit

It's impossible to predict at this point what might be decided, with the worst case possibility that any decision could drastically curtail the entire spectrum of digital archiving of existing - especially out of print - books and other publications. In the most optimistic of results, the suits might provide some clarification of what is (and is not) acceptable.

Of course any eventual decision might just add to the confusion ...

There's no real indication of swift movement toward any start of hearings, and it may be years before the movie starts, but Librarians especially, and those concerned about getting bookiness to the public - in whatever form - may want to watch for more on the subject.

John

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 30 May 12 - 12:46 AM

can "browse " multiple libraries "on the subject of interest "... more importantly an entire continent of international journals is at a keystroke.

The spance of these peer - reviewed publications could take two weeks to gather through "inter - library ".

TODAY - three weeks of old-school knuckle bone knocking can come together in one good morning.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

The access is easy...the material available to ALL...there is a REAL scholastic world beyond "wiki "...however you will need another guide....the sacred springs are already pollufed.

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: Elmore
Date: 29 May 12 - 09:33 PM

My wife is unwell. She reads in bed, and finds the Fire easier to use than books. I'm fine with either.

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: Midchuck
Date: 29 May 12 - 07:58 PM

Funny coincidence: Back in February, Rapparee said:

...I'm currently reading "Cannibalism, Headhunting and Human Sacrifice in North America" by Feldman (and he doesn't limit himself to the Indians, either!). There's a history of the pox and another on the history of vice in London waiting in the wings, along with Utley's book on the first century of the Texas Rangers.

I just read this thread today, for the first time. But I picked up the Utley book on the Texas Rangers in a yard sale this past Saturday, and am about 2/3 of the way through it now.

P.

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 29 May 12 - 06:22 PM

I agree with much of what has been written. Also, the physical contents of most books are easily recycled. E-books become electronic waste which is not easy to recycle.

Rapparee, when I read the title of what you are reading I though you might consider reading Mary Kay Bercaw Edwards book "Cannibal Old Me", although it is more about three ways language (sailor language, church language, and "cannibal" language) was used in Moby Dick than about cannibalism.

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: Ed T
Date: 29 May 12 - 10:04 AM

Stilly River Sage:

While you may have "taught your children to feed their addiction to literature by reading books on paper", just haw many in the population are doing the same? I suspect fewer than we may realize.
I see the lure of relying on electronic sources increases with every new electronic product and with every generation. (There was a time when people purchased music at music stores, and did not download their music, sometimes even for free).

I work with a science organization, and we have a library. My observation is that the younger scientists lean towards electronic reading for their work and the library has few users.

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 May 12 - 04:26 AM

The days of "browsing the stacks" are history at most universities.

Not over here, Garg - not just yet. One of the problems we had with students in any discipline was to encourage them to use the library catalogue to see the full range of what was available to them. Their habit was simply to walk to the section of the stacks with "their" subject in it and assume that everything they needed was there.

The e-revolution in libraries - if that's what you want to call it - has happened in the world of journal publishing, with giant corporations like Elsevier charging mucho dinero for internet access to articles in their journals set. Universities can pay huge sums for institutional access to current research so that their staff and students can have free access. Individual researchers outside the umbrella of a college or a corporate workplace would find it very expensive.

There's a big backlash against Elsevier and their ilk at the moment, with scholars being encouraged to store their research co-operatively and electronically and make it freely available to all.

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 28 May 12 - 11:48 PM

The days of "browsing the stacks" are history at most universities.

They have been gone for nearly a decade.

(both of one of our laughing katters publications - are available - free - toss the gauntlett and I will be so gauch as to scan and post plagerisms)

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Search the catalogue on line

Select the resources   - note dates of return if item is checked out.

Request
Pickup in person - or delivery to campus office - or shipping to home address

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 May 12 - 11:38 PM

I guess I can't really offer much opinion on the reading habits of children these days, since the books I read as a child weren't considered "age appropriate" when I read them. Freud, Jung, Veblen, Rousseau, Russell ....

Then when I turned 13 ...

I'm gradually turning some of my childhood books into digital ones (the ones that don't crumble when I try to turn the pages to scan them) but that's just to save storage space.

Lin, however, curently has a mad affair with her Nook that's beginning to make me a little suspicious of whether she's into something of questionable moral value, since she seems to get lots of really cheap stuff ... and the time she spends in on her family tree suggests an unhealthy interest in dead people.

John

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 May 12 - 10:42 PM

No - I've taught my children to feed their addiction to literature by reading books on paper.

SRS

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: Ed T
Date: 28 May 12 - 09:50 PM

Could it be a generational issue, with the next generation having littlem interest in paper books? Just wondering.

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 28 May 12 - 09:38 PM

Have you ever tried to squash a bothersome fly between the pages of an e-book?

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 May 12 - 09:19 PM

An article that might be of interest to some appears at The Library of Utopia in the latest issue of Technology Review.

There is some explanation of why Google Books likely will remain in limbo indefinitely, with rather bleak prospects for ever going much of anywhere with "digitizing all the world's books." There's also some discussion of an alternative program with somewhat better prospects, but still facing some very real problems.

I was a bit surprised to learn that LIBRARIANS, even those in favor of digitizing, may have inadvertently thrown up one of the main barriers to progress by using proprietary (©) programs for their indexing, making virtually all "summary information" subject to indefinable distribution/copy restrictions. That particular facet of the problem is probably complex enough to recommend reading it from the article rather than from attempts I might make at expanding the details.

(If you know the rules, you can arrange to distribute almost anything; but when you can't know the rules you can't do much with any of it - or at least that's how I read it.)

John

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 01:27 PM

I kinda doubt that the sort of books I read would have a wide e-audience. For example, I'm currently reading "Cannibalism, Headhunting and Human Sacrifice in North America" by Feldman (and he doesn't limit himself to the Indians, either!). There's a history of the pox and another on the history of vice in London waiting in the wings, along with Utley's book on the first century of the Texas Rangers.

Jim Dixon is correct.

I once got into a discussion with a librarian from Halifax, NS about paper vs. ebooks. I pointed out that if I'm reading the bathtub I want a paper book, in case I drop it. Also, if I'm lost in the Yukon or Nunavit or even in Idaho I want a paper book: you can use it to start a fire, to pass the time, and if necessary for thing Sears' catalogs used to be used for -- try THAT with an e-reader or a laptop! Also the batteries never go dead....

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 01:06 PM

I use both printed books and electronic media. They each have their place.

If you're looking for specific information about a specific topic, there's nothing like a searchable database.

If you're looking for a broad understanding of a broad topic, there's nothing like a book.

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 12:35 PM

I'd wager that 3/4 of the books I read are not avaailable in e-format. It's not that I wouldn't read e-books--I haven't but I'm not opposed to it--but I have no intention of giving up real books for e-books.

Here's the thing: We get so enamored with a new technology that we eventually OD on it. Then we start to miss the old way and want to go back to it. Telephones are probably the only thing this will never happen with because cell phones and such are so convenient. But look at analog synths. People went nuts with the digital synths and suddenly rediscovered the coolness of analogs and now Buchla and Moog are suddenly back in business.

I don't think books will disappear anyway. Imagine going to a Latin mass and the choir singer are all holding tablets or pads. I have a Latin mass book--huge thing--that I bought many years ago for the hell of it, I'm not Catholic. But my bass instructor is a Polish Catholic boy and I lent it to him and he loves it. It wouldn't be the same scrolling through it on a tablet.

But if I can load up a number of books in e-format on a pad, I'm not averse to doing that. But real books are forever.

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 11:10 AM

Now that you're in the mood: LibraryThing.

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 07:16 PM

I love that term, "bibliotherapy!" I shall teach it to my grandson who loves language, "big words," and the library.

As an author, e-books are the fastest, easiest and least expensive way to reach a lot of readers, but I love seeing my words on paper, too.

BillD, maybe it was a Sears or Monkey Ward catalogue that came to mind? You know what folks used them for!:-)

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 06:01 PM

Johnny Milton does my talkin':

Hence, vain deluding joys,
The brood of folly without father bred,
How little you bestead,
Or fill the fixed mind with all your toys!
Dwell in some idle brain,
And fancies fond with gaudy shapes possess,
As thick and numberless
As the gay motes that people the sunbeams,
Or likest hovering dreams,
The fickle pensioners of Morpheus' train.
But hail thou Goddess sage and holy,
Hail divinest Melancholy,
Whose saintly visage is too bright
To hit the sense of human sight,
And therefore to our weaker view
O'erlaid with black, staid Wisdom's hue;
Black, but such as in esteem
Prince Memnon's sister might beseem,
Or that starred Ethiop queen that strove
To set her beauty's praise above
The Sea-Nymphs, and their pow'rs offended.
Yet thou art higher far descended;
Thee bright-haired Vesta long of yore
To solitary Saturn bore;
His daughter she (in Saturn's reign
Such mixture was not held a stain).
Oft in glimmering bow'rs and glades
He met her, and in secret shades
Of woody Ida's inmost grove,
While yet there was no fear of Jove.
Come, pensive Nun, devout and pure,
Sober, steadfast, and demure,
All in a robe of darkest grain,
Flowing with majestic train,
And sable stole of cypres lawn,
Over thy decent shoulders drawn:
Come, but keep thy wonted state,
With even step, and musing gait,
And looks commercing with the skies,
Thy rapt soul sitting in thine eyes:
There held in holy passion still,
Forget thyself to marble, till
With a sad leaden downward cast
Thou fix them on the earth as fast.
And join with thee calm Peace, and Quiet,
Spare Fast, that oft with gods doth diet,
And hears the Muses in a ring
Aye round about Jove's altar sing.
And add to these retired Leisure,
That in trim gardens takes his pleasure;
But first, and chiefest, with thee bring
Him that yon soars on golden wing,
Guiding the fiery-wheeled throne,
The Cherub Contemplation;
And the mute Silence hist along,
'Less Philomel will deign a song,
In her sweetest, saddest plight,
Smoothing the rugged brow of Night,
While Cynthia checks her dragon yoke,
Gently o'er th' accustomed oak;
Sweet bird, that shunn'st the noise of folly,
Most musical, most melancholy!
Thee, chauntress, oft the woods among
I woo, to hear thy even-song;
And missing thee, I walk unseen
On the dry smooth-shaven green,
To behold the wandering Moon
Riding near her highest noon,
Like one that had been led astray
Through the heav'n's wide pathless way;
And oft, as if her head she bowed,
Stooping through a fleecy cloud.
Oft on a plat of rising ground,
I hear the far-off curfew sound,
Over some wide-watered shore,
Swinging slow with sullen roar;
Or if the air will not permit,
Some still removed place will fit,
Where glowing embers through the room
Teach light to counterfeit a gloom;
Far from all resort of mirth,
Save the cricket on the hearth,
Or the bellman's drowsy charm,
To bless the doors from nightly harm:
Or let my lamp at midnight hour
Be seen in some high lonely tow'r,
Where I may oft out-watch the Bear,
With thrice-great Hermes, or unsphere
The spirit of Plato, to unfold
What worlds, or what vast regions hold
The immortal mind, that hath forsook
Her mansion in this fleshly nook:
And of those Demons that are found
In fire, air, flood, or under ground,
Whose power hath a true consent
With planet, or with element.
Sometime let gorgeous Tragedy
In sceptered pall come sweeping by,
Presenting Thebes, or Pelops' line,
Or the tale of Troy divine,
Or what (though rare) of later age
Ennobled hath the buskined stage.
But, O sad Virgin, that thy power
Might raise Musaeus from his bower,
Or bid the soul of Orpheus sing
Such notes as warbled to the string
Drew iron tears down Pluto's cheek,
And made Hell grant what Love did seek.
Or call up him that left half told
The story of Cambuscan bold,
Of Camball, and of Algarsife,
And who had Canace to wife,
That owned the virtuous ring and glass,
And of the wondrous horse of brass
On which the Tartar king did ride;
And if aught else great bards beside
In sage and solemn tunes have sung,
Of turneys and of trophies hung,
Of forests, and enchantments drear,
Where more is meant than meets the ear.
Thus, Night, oft see me in thy pale career,
Till civil-suited Morn appear,
Not tricked and frounced as she was wont
With the Attic Boy to hunt,
But kerchiefed in a comely cloud,
While rocking winds are piping loud,
Or ushered with a shower still,
When the gust hath blown his fill,
Ending on the rustling leaves
With minute drops from off the eaves.
And when the sun begins to fling
His flaring beams, me, Goddess, bring
To arched walks of twilight groves,
And shadows brown that Sylvan loves
Of pine, or monumental oak,
Where the rude axe with heaved stroke
Was never heard the Nymphs to daunt,
Or fright them from their hallowed haunt.
There in close covert by some brook,
Where no profaner eye may look,
Hide me from day's garish eye,
While the bee with honeyed thigh,
That at her flowery work doth sing,
And the waters murmuring
With such consort as they keep,
Entice the dewy-feathered Sleep;
And let some strange mysterious dream
Wave at his wings in airy stream
Of lively portraiture displayed,
Softly on my eyelids laid.
And as I wake, sweet music breathe
Above, about, or underneath,
Sent by some Spirit to mortals good,
Or the unseen Genius of the wood.
But let my due feet never fail
To walk the studious cloister's pale,
And love the high embowed roof,
With antique pillars massy proof,
And storied windows richly dight,
Casting a dim religious light:
There let the pealing organ blow
To the full voiced choir below,
In service high, and anthems clear,
As may with sweetness, through mine ear,
Dissolve me into ecstasies,
And bring all Heav'n before mine eyes.
And may at last my weary age
Find out the peaceful hermitage,
The hairy gown and mossy cell
Where I may sit and rightly spell
Of every star that heav'n doth show,
And every herb that sips the dew;
Till old experience do attain
To something like prophetic strain.
These pleasures, Melancholy, give,
And I with thee will choose to live.

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: Raedwulf
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 05:45 PM

Guest 5:13 was a cookieless little moi...

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 05:25 PM

I could NEVER write or make notes in the margins of a book.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 05:13 PM

Because.

'Nuff said? ;-)

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 05:04 PM

something I posted on our National folk list a few days ago

Digital archaeology and the temporary nature of technology

Radio program - Listen Now & Download Audio available

As our fast paced digital world continues what does that mean for the way we think about preserving things like old webpages and obsolete media formats? Are there possible lessons from our digital past for our digital future? We explore the fragility of our electronic data and also the temporary nature of the technology we use to access it. We also join the excavation of a 1970s computer chip called the 6502!

comment from a listener Obsolete electronic technology

I have a fantasy that Stonehenge is all that remains today of an electronic civilisation. The rest is lost.
Half of all my life's work is lost on obsolete technology – three forms of tape recording, Deskmate word processing, Amiga animation, floppies, Betacam, microfiche, old editions of modern programs. . All that remains is what I put on paper. And today schools are throwing out books and relying on electronic technology!

Today I want to put irreplaceable tape recordings of oral history onto CDs or DVDs, but cannot find the technology to do so.
Putting everything into paper archives is unsatisfactory unless we have a means of finding material. There is too much dross.
We need the equivalent of a Rosetta stone for modern knowledge and culture.

(Planned obsolescence in electronic technology makes the situation worse. What is good is thrown out as well as what is passe.)

sandra - retired librarian & lifetime reader, member of 2 local libraries which allow me up to 20 books each time I visit!!

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 05:02 PM

You're right Paul. And you can't really browse discs and things can you? But books are instantly viewable, you can flick through and see straight away if you're going to like it or not. I don't take books into the bathroom, but I do take them to bed. I like to lie there with my little lamp glowing and stick my nose into my book, it's blissful and guarantees a good night's sleep.

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 04:49 PM

I like paper books because they far more timeproof than any electronic medium. Some years ago, I bought an 1864 Greek-English dictionary, on the theory that I knew enough Greek letters from maths to read it. I couldn't buy a 1997 floppy disc, let alone a 1983 digital cassette, and hope to be able to read it.

An unknown manuscript of Archimedes' work was decrypted from ancient parchment a few years ago; and just google Oxyrhyncus to see the possibilities of human writing; none of that would have survived electronic recording.

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 04:45 PM

And yet we handle paper money, which has probably been touched by hundreds of people, many of whom don't wash much!

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 03:33 PM

I like them 'cause they burn so good!

Well, there might be a couple of other reasons too.

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 03:24 PM

"... he said people take them into the bathroom..."

Where the very AIR will contaminate them? I tend to wash my hands before taking my book and leaving the bathroom.
It boggles the mind thinking about all the things we encounter every day that people might have touched.

I think...


..never mind.

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 03:08 PM

True, Pete. As I get older, I've noticed I get grumpy at errors I find in books. A volume about Tudor England stated that records of Births, Deaths and Marriages can be sourced in Parish Churches. I had to stop myself scribbling angrily that it's only Baptisms, Marriages and Funerals that are recorded in this way! I'm afraid I've got so grumpy that I sometimes 'mark' the Daily Mail with a red pen. (I know, I know, totally bonkers, but after several decades as a teacher it's in my blood!)

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 02:24 PM

Nor me, Eliza. You can't make notes in the margins on e-readers...

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 02:22 PM

Our library also sells off its old books. Only 25p each! I adore the Library, including the little mobile one that comes to our village. Can't see me ever using a Kindle thing.

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 02:18 PM

I have not liked library books since my father said the two dirtiest things were money and library books..I said I understand money but why library books..and he said people take them into the bathroom. Sure love my kindle though...mg

Subject: RE: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 01:50 PM

I was just there yesterday. Our library has just started selling their old books for a buck each. They're pretty beat up but that's still a good deal.

Subject: Why we love Books on Paper in Libraries
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 01:45 PM

A coworker at the university where I work sent me this link today, made by her cousin at George Washington University.

Books and Browsing will probably inspire you to visit your library and stroll through the stacks. Take a bag so you can carry your books back home easily!

SRS