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BBC Folk Awards winners?

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GUEST,Derek Schofield 13 Feb 12 - 05:54 AM
Les in Chorlton 12 Feb 12 - 01:03 PM
GUEST 12 Feb 12 - 12:04 PM
GUEST,Folknacious 12 Feb 12 - 09:51 AM
Owen Woodson 11 Feb 12 - 10:26 AM
Owen Woodson 11 Feb 12 - 10:22 AM
GUEST,John from Kemsing 11 Feb 12 - 10:18 AM
Les in Chorlton 11 Feb 12 - 09:46 AM
GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 11 Feb 12 - 09:45 AM
Silas 11 Feb 12 - 09:43 AM
Les in Chorlton 11 Feb 12 - 09:38 AM
GUEST,Klumper 11 Feb 12 - 09:30 AM
Silas 11 Feb 12 - 09:15 AM
GUEST,SteveT 11 Feb 12 - 08:54 AM
Ian Hendrie 11 Feb 12 - 08:03 AM
Hamish 11 Feb 12 - 05:18 AM
Les in Chorlton 11 Feb 12 - 03:57 AM
Leadfingers 10 Feb 12 - 08:10 PM
GUEST,Banjiman 10 Feb 12 - 04:48 PM
r.padgett 10 Feb 12 - 03:05 PM
GUEST,Howard Jones 10 Feb 12 - 02:59 PM
GUEST 10 Feb 12 - 02:58 PM
Big Al Whittle 10 Feb 12 - 01:53 PM
GUEST,Banjiman 10 Feb 12 - 01:23 PM
Silas 10 Feb 12 - 01:19 PM
GUEST,Banjiman 10 Feb 12 - 01:10 PM
Silas 10 Feb 12 - 01:05 PM
GUEST,Banjmiman 10 Feb 12 - 12:59 PM
GUEST 10 Feb 12 - 12:58 PM
Silas 10 Feb 12 - 12:53 PM
srothman 10 Feb 12 - 12:51 PM
GUEST,Banjiman 10 Feb 12 - 12:36 PM
Silas 10 Feb 12 - 12:33 PM
GUEST,Banjiman 10 Feb 12 - 12:31 PM
Silas 10 Feb 12 - 12:23 PM
GUEST,Banjiman 10 Feb 12 - 12:17 PM
Silas 10 Feb 12 - 11:45 AM
GUEST,John from Kemsing 10 Feb 12 - 11:12 AM
GUEST,Banjiman 10 Feb 12 - 09:38 AM
Silas 10 Feb 12 - 09:34 AM
Girl Friday 10 Feb 12 - 09:26 AM
Bonzo3legs 10 Feb 12 - 08:55 AM
ChrisJBrady 10 Feb 12 - 08:34 AM
Silas 10 Feb 12 - 08:28 AM
ChrisJBrady 10 Feb 12 - 08:22 AM
srothman 09 Feb 12 - 08:05 PM
GUEST,AEOLA 09 Feb 12 - 05:27 PM
Richard Bridge 09 Feb 12 - 05:05 PM
GUEST,Howard Jones 09 Feb 12 - 02:46 PM
evansakes 09 Feb 12 - 01:51 PM
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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 05:54 AM

Just a couple of comments....
Both Reg Hall and Mike Yates were awarded the Gold Badge of the English Folk Dance & Song Society.
Topic Records received the Good Tradition award in 2000, and , if my memory is correct, part of the reason for that was The Voice of the People, which Reg co-compiled with Tony Engle, and I think Reg went up on stage to receive the award with Tony Engle.

If the awards were all about the "folk industry" why did they give awards to Malcolm Taylor, Bill Leader, Ian Campbell....?

I think the reason for the Folk Club award being dropped was that it may have been difficult to get consensus from the artists they were asking to vote on the club.

Derek


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 12 Feb 12 - 01:03 PM

"25 years ago Thatcher was in power - we are going out again - unfinished business"

Wasn't that the core of what JT said? Seems totally appropriate in the context of JT and the songs he has written

L in C#


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 12 - 12:04 PM

They also cut out John Tam's political points and Stuart Maconie's mentioning of Ian Campbell as a Communist..


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST,Folknacious
Date: 12 Feb 12 - 09:51 AM

I just watched the TV red button loop and I see they cut out MacLean's awful first song but they also cut out Steve Knightley presenting June & Oysters with their group of the year award. Now was that because the BBC thought it was boring that they won that many awards, or because Steve had a go at the BBC cutting local folk programmes, and venues who charge artists to sell their CDs? Shame, because those were good points. Anyway, you can hear that bit for a few more days on the radio iPlayer repeat - it's at 1:55:15 here


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 11 Feb 12 - 10:26 AM

Come to think of it, and do forgive me if a senior moment has got in the way here, but has Mike Yates ever received any recognition for his enormously important collecting and publishing work?


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 11 Feb 12 - 10:22 AM

I was delighted to see Bill Leader receiving a lifetime's award and can't think of anyone in this country who has done more to further the cause of folk music on record. But his acceptance speech contained one very important point; namely that nobody has ever given as much as a wooden nickel to Reg Hall for all the hard work he's put in down through the years. That surely is an oversight which deserves immediate correction.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 11 Feb 12 - 10:18 AM

Surely the music of Ray Davies and "The Kinks" is as valid an example of contemporary folk music of the time as anything we write and sing today. Who knows? Next year? Although not presented as that "genre" it seems to fit the bill.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 11 Feb 12 - 09:46 AM

Thanks Silas - more power to you elbow - I guess MH has much more power than most.

I love the Dubliners but I feel the Spinners did so much especially early on in the 60s

Les


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 11 Feb 12 - 09:45 AM

I'd like to put Ron Bankley and Bruce Murdoch forward for the Lifetime Achievement Award, for these two guys have been writing sensational songs for decades now.

Gilbert's performing in Torquay next week, apparently. (just thought I'd pop that one in)

Oh yes, and The Spinners, they should most definitely have one too..


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Silas
Date: 11 Feb 12 - 09:43 AM

"I just want the Spinners to given one for all they have done over around50 or 60 years"

Oh yes, I have been campainging for this for years. MH is on board, but who makes the decision?


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 11 Feb 12 - 09:38 AM

I just want the Spinners to given one for all they have done over around50 or 60 years

L in C#


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST,Klumper
Date: 11 Feb 12 - 09:30 AM

right then, so that's Donovan and Don Mclean honoured while they're still breathing.
So who's left for next year ?

John Denver - nope,

Cat Stevens - hmmm ???

Chris de Burgh - He's nice and inoffensive - a favourite with the mums and grans..

Peter Sarstedt - umm.. maybe keep him in reserve in case any front runners pop their clogs.

Gilbert O'Sullivan - yes, he wore a cloth cap and sang in a regional accent - He'd do.

What about Wotsisname, that American who had that song,
ooh who was it now, you know, it was in that Car Insurance TV ad ??

etc, etc..


The way this is going, 10 years from now, they might just even end up giving the bloody award to Alice Cooper or Iggy Pop !!!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Silas
Date: 11 Feb 12 - 09:15 AM

Radio 2 has broadcast a one hour folk programme every week for as long as I can remember, it has hosted the Radio 2 Folk Awards for many years now. I think that is pretty good really.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST,SteveT
Date: 11 Feb 12 - 08:54 AM

I enjoyed the programme although not all the winners or performers were to my personal taste – but why should they be.

What amused (?) me most was MH's parting comments

"Thank you to Radio 2 for what they do for folk music. I can think of no other broadcasting organisation in the world that would support music in the way that they do and in particular traditional music – They've done a great job."

Have I missed some programmes somewhere while I've been searching Radio Scotland, Radio Ulster and RTE etc?


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Ian Hendrie
Date: 11 Feb 12 - 08:03 AM

The Unthanks made me cry as well - can't stand their droning!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Hamish
Date: 11 Feb 12 - 05:18 AM

King of Rome: The Unthanks and The Brighouse and Rastrick Band: King of Rome. Astoundingly brilliant. Perfect. Made me cry it was so sublime.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 11 Feb 12 - 03:57 AM

Ok, quite a few of the larger collections of folk musicians, Bellowhead being a good example, are made up of individuals, duos etc. that also go out in those formats and play folk clubs and other small venues.

Seems like an all round good thing

L in C#


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 08:10 PM

In 1986 there was an attempt to run a week long Folk festival in Harrow which , due to anumber of reasons was a tOTAL fiasc0 ! I was Short listed for 'Song Director' , but I got lucky and Hugh Diamond had the Unenviable job of booking artists for a programme based on the previous years Sidmouth Programme , but with only SIX Months to do it .
One of the complaints I heard was that ALL the acts were "ONLY" Club acts , not "REAL" Festival acts , and it seems that these are the people who get nominated for the Folk Awards .
As pointed out above , not many clubs can stretch to the money that
even 4 or 5 pice bands of any quality quite reasonably expect , so there is a BIG gap between Festival , Art Centre , and Major Concert Gigs and your 'average ' small folk Club .

Carry on from there !


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 04:48 PM

So why do you think the Folk Club award got dropped Howard?

.....and that's a friendly challenge!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: r.padgett
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 03:05 PM

Dropping the folk club award si perhaps indicative of the drive towards concerts by more established acts and of course festivals!

This is a problem as there is a division between club sessions (music and song) by lesser performers and other formats, of which there are a number!

New Initiative towards more folky smaller clubs is welcome ~ specifically looking to promote newer club acts and I don't mean just new younger acts!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 02:59 PM

Whoops! that was me, lost my cookie again


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 02:58 PM

"The awards are largely there (it seems to me) to promote artists that have agents, managers, record labels etc. Apart from possibly the Young Folk Award I can't think of any of the nominees, winners or performers on the night who don't fall into these categories. (I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong!)."

It's there to promote the best artists in the genre. The liklihood is that anyone prominent enough on the scene to attract the attention of sufficient judges to get nominated, let alone win, will have agents, managers, record labels etc. They're professional musicians - what would you expect?


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 01:53 PM

i think CM still plays folk clubs - but its on his terms and when he wants. And of course, its not his bread and butter - so you no longer get letters hustling for work from him.

I seem to remember various accounts of him cropping up in smallish venues. he's got the entertaining bug - that boy.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 01:23 PM

I wouldn't argue with any of that Silas.

...... it's just how the world is and I don't begrudge anyone making a decent living.

I'm not accusing the artists of turning their backs, just that there are real financial constraints in the folk clubs just now. The Folk Awards have to support the industry side of folk, that's where the money and ratings are. I'm not criticising, I'm just saying that's how it is.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Silas
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 01:19 PM

Well, it is difficult. It is grossly unfair to undervalue the talent that we have in the folk scene, yet it is also difficult for artists being accused of turning their backs on the very clubs that gave them the opportunity to get to where they are.
Perhaps we should look at clubs as the apprentiships for folk performers, and tyhe festivals and concerts as the place to see those who have made it big.
All the guys you have mentioned ha dto start somewhere and it was invariably the local clubs. The system works, I believe and I am quite happy with it.
Would I pay £30.00 to see Christy Moore - no. But I am glad that he has sufficient presence and following to be able to demand that sort of booking, it is good for the genre.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 01:10 PM

But you see my point Silas....... they were all Folk Award Winners.

I just don't think that there is much interest from artists at that level and the people that surround them in giving Folk Clubs National TV exposure, or exposure of any kind really. There's just no money in them any more.

Which is a shame because my wife is playing Oxford Folk Club tonight! She'll not be getting rich and I'll have to go to work on Monday!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Silas
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 01:05 PM

Well, the problem with Home service and the Oyster Band is that there loads of them, same with bellowhead. You can't really expect a professional musician to perform for much less than £150.00 for a night and if there are six of them that is £900.00. That is a lot for a club, but i bet if they were to pay it, the band would perform. Christy Moore - well, OK, I'll give you that one.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST,Banjmiman
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 12:59 PM

Sorry, post above was me!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 12:58 PM

Silas....... let me help-

Christy Moore, Home Service, June Tabor, Oysterband

Not that I blame them, as I say not enough money.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Silas
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 12:53 PM

srothman, would you like to name some names? I am not aware of any folk performer who will not play clubs, there may be the odd exception, but I can't think of one myself.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: srothman
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 12:51 PM

Probably not enough in it for folk "Industry".

Well said, Banjiman - folk clubs are where most of our music is listened to - and where all the award winners started out. Most of them only deign to play concert venues these days, with a handful of exceptions - Martin Carthy, John Kirkpatrick, Vin Garbutt etc.

But, as Steve Knightley tried to point out, the odds are stacked against folk musicians trying to generate even a modest income, whatever the type of venue.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 12:36 PM

...... I thought I did??

You might disagree - and you might be right! I don't have the inside track, merely expressing an opinion.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Silas
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 12:33 PM

Actually I wanted you to explain your not enough in it for the folk industry comment.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 12:31 PM

2006 - Red Lion, Birmingham
2007 - Ram Folk Club
2008 - Dartford Folk Club
2009 - Black Swan, York
2010 - Magpies Nest

Do you want me to go further back? Looks like a good spread to me.

I have no probs with the top names winning the awards and I like the awards!..... not sure about transparency of the nominations and judging sometimes but that's another matter.

...... and I run a guest booking folk club.

But those weren't your questions. You asked me to explain why I thought they had dropped the Folk Club of The Year Award.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Silas
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 12:23 PM

I don't think you could be more wrong. The Folk Club Award was voted for by folk artists, I don't know why it has been dropped, probably because all the artists liked the same clubs, seems from memory to have been either the Davy Lamp or Nettlebed.

The Club is still the bedrock of the folk society, there would be no performers without the clubs.

If you think about it for more than a nonosecond, it will become obvious why it appears to be only top names that are getting awards.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 12:17 PM

"Explain?"

The awards are largely there (it seems to me) to promote artists that have agents, managers, record labels etc. Apart from possibly the Young Folk Award I can't think of any of the nominees, winners or performers on the night who don't fall into these categories. (I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong!).

Most of the nominated artists are also more interested in the festival circuit (who can blame them, it pays better).

A lot of Folk Clubs are still prepared to book some artists that don't fall into these categories..... I just don't think the Folk Club of the Year category fits with the ethos of the awards organisers anymore. Because most of the (150 or so) judges are (ones I'm aware of anyway) agents, managers, record label bosses, magazine editors, reviewers and the like. Not many who are JUST Folk Club Organisers or audience.

Folk Clubs aren't important to the "industry" side of folk anymore, just not enough money in them.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Silas
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 11:45 AM

...... and was quietly dropped a couple of years ago.

Probably not enough in it for folk "Industry".



Explain?


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 11:12 AM

I`m sorry, but I just don`t get the hype over Seth Lakeman.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 09:38 AM

...... and was quietly dropped a couple of years ago.

Probably not enough in it for folk "Industry".


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Silas
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 09:34 AM

Nope, the folkclub was voted for by performers at folk clubs.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Girl Friday
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 09:26 AM

I haven't yet listened or viewed, but, am I right ? A friend has said she thinks there was no Folk Club of The Year Award this year.

This was the only award voted for by us, the people.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 08:55 AM

"Have to agree Richard - starting the BBC2 Folk Awards with a country and western song was a little peverse" - e missing I fear

Better that than the hideous tuneless ramblings of unthanks!!!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 08:34 AM

Loads of footage now on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=folk+awards+2012&oq=folk+awards+2012


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Silas
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 08:28 AM

Have to agree Richard - starting the BBC2 Folk Awards with a country and western song was a little peverse.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 08:22 AM

The 'live' programme is still looping around every hour on BBC Red Button Freeview 310.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: srothman
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 08:05 PM

Awards ceremonies are all about being positive and congratulatory - but hats off to Steve Knightley for seizing the opportunity to make a few telling points about the way folk musicians are treated by music business.

And he's the one who's always accused by the folk mafia of having sold out...


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST,AEOLA
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 05:27 PM

I enjoyed the show, disappointed with Don M.that sort of performance doesn't do Folk any good.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 05:05 PM

However, as precisely done as it was, Martin Simpson's "Lakes of Ponchatrain" was IMHO absolutely horrible.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00p0gl2


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 02:46 PM

Yes, but on what basis were those votes cast? Is it based on outstanding achievements in the year in question, whether the judge likes their music, or because it's somebody's turn? There must be some guidance for the judges, and it would be informative to know what they are, if only to add to the fun of trying to guess who'll win.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards winners?
From: evansakes
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 01:51 PM

"I suppose my point, not very well made, was that there are probably lots of reasons why June won, and why the others were nominated, but we don't know what they are"

No, just one reason.....she got more votes than the others nominated (and they in turn got more votes than everyone else)


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