BS: Snap-On tool

Subject: BS: Snap-On tool
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 08:44 AM

Now that would be useful.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 08:54 AM

They're guaranteed for life you know. Replaced FOC if it breaks.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 09:02 AM

For many years the finest tools made and most pro mechanics filled boxes with them. Shiney, hard, and they lasted forever.......Sadly now just a shadow of what they used to be.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 09:16 AM

The guy that has the Snap-On franchise here is hurtin.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 09:59 AM

I nearly bought the local Snap-On franchise. Glad I didn't now

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: GUEST,Klumper
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 09:59 AM

Many older gents, and those who regularly work on their own,
may find it more effective to finish off a job with a traditional Hand Tool ?

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 10:20 AM

Spaw is exactly right. They were the best tools made. My old man would not use anything but them. They were expensive in their day but you would never break one of them.   Sadly no more ...

My brother still uses my dad's tools and they are still working like the day he used them 40+ years ago

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 11:55 AM

Stahlwille used to be pretty damned good too, and, once upon a time, Britool and Stanley. I've had my Metabo socket set since I was about 16

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 12:23 PM

Didn't Span-On have a lifetime guarantee? And do they still?

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 12:39 PM

Mastercrap (Mastercraft), from Chinese Tire (Crappy Tire, Canadian Tire) used to be good. Still carry a lifetime "warranty" but the stuff I have seen since they have been supplied from China looks "iffy" to me. When I can't read the stamps... Last year I got a 230 piece socket set for Xmas. First time I decided to explore it while doing some minor maintenance, 5/8 was NOT 5/8. I gave it to a buddy's son with a "frustration warning". However, at less that $100 it's a good happy-weekender set. At least, it looks impressive.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 12:49 PM

Kamasa were great when they first came out, then they disappeared. When they reappeared,I don't think they were as good, but still not bad for th bucks they cost.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 01:04 PM

I've always used "Snap-Offs", i.e. Crapsman because of the lifetime warranty and much lower prices... I do have a few Snap-Ons, including a very nice torque wrench and metric combination wrenches (10,11,13,14,15,17&19mm)...

Also have a few nice MATCO wrenches...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 01:17 PM

Many years ago I acted for one of the Kamasa companies and yes, there were some problems. That company no longer exists hence I no longer owe it a duty of confidentiality.

The best screwdrivers I ever had were Stanley ones. Most cross-point screwdrivers get fucked by people who do not know the difference between a philips and a posidriv.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 01:24 PM

Philips outta be against the law. The law should say "only Robertson" unless you can prove there is a need otherwise for the application or you can prove you have a better design. I HATE Philips! No, it's way beyond hate. Nearly as much as standard. It actually upsets me to even think about Philips.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 01:47 PM

people who do not know the difference between a philips and a posidriv

I confess - that includes me. So - what is the difference?

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 02:30 PM

4 points against 8

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 02:35 PM

Four extra smaller slots at 45 degrees to the main slots. Works better than a Philips at holding the screw to the driver but it still ain't no Roberston. I only have two arms so I only used Robertson if at all possible and that ain't often enough fer me.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: saulgoldie
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 03:08 PM

Um, I think the OP was talking about a different "tool." So...this thread is a-driftin.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 03:36 PM

Well, Saul, fact is most of the posters are us older guys who are more interested in working tools than playing tools.

Hmmm... that didn't sound quite right either.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 04:40 PM

Why are only men posting here? Is it something to do with snappy tools?

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 04:44 PM

I have trouble finding mine. It has happened since I acquired a roof over my tool shed.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 04:55 PM

hehehee... here we go.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: TheSnail
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 05:12 PM

Don't Stand Between a Man and His Tool

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: TheSnail
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 05:58 PM

Couldn't help noticing that one of the Google Ads on this page was "Snapon Handheld Forum".

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 06:10 PM

LOVE the Spooky Men! Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 06:17 PM

Good listing here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives

I'd be surprised if Robertson offered the same torque limits as posidriv.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 09:09 PM

But, I can use a Robertson with one hand while I do something with the other hand... like hold onto something to maintain my balance. Screw torque. You only need enough torque to set the screw. If it's getting a screw out that is a problem, preventative maintenance is the problem. And, I am not a makeanickel engineer but I'd be surpised if there was much practical diffrence regarding torque.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 09:35 PM

When I was a government investigator, I had a boss named Helen Limneos (married name), now deceased, who came from the Minneapolis area. She often told us that her father founded Snap-On Tools. I see that the headquarters of Snap-On is now Kenosha, Wisconsin that's ten miles south of my home town, Racine.

Wish I knew more about the company. Their tools are legendary, a good example of what the Midwestern Work Ethic can do. Helen was a wonderful boss, by the way....

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 09:56 PM

As for Phillips head??? Twice as good as a single slot swcrew... Notg as good as 6 ot 8 points but better than the "good old days" of single slots...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: EBarnacle
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 12:02 AM

I prefer almost anything to slotted. Almost all of the nonslotted were invented to be used with power tools. Once you discover driving [or removing] screws and bolts with a power driver you won't go back.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 02:24 AM

IMHO the "slots" on a philips are more likely to fail than any others. If you have a good go at a stuck philips with an impact screwdriver the slots usually become a round tapered hole. If you have a similarly good go at a slotted head the first thing to fail is usually that you neck the bolt or screw - so demonstrating that you have got more torque onto it. Still a bugger to get out after that though!.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 02:35 AM

Aye, you cannae beat a guid screw.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 03:22 AM

According to a few friends still in the mechanical maintenance trades, Snap-On is still around and still offers the lifetime warranty on most of their tools.

The biggest problems with them are the significantly higher cost, and the need to know how to get in contact with the Snap-On guy who services them in your area. Most of the dealers don't have a fixed location, and rely (almost entirely) on "route service" agents. The agents still come around the vehicle shops fairly regularly - especially where there's "heavy duty" maintenance as in a truck fleet shop; but an order for a specific tool may not be delivered until "next time the route guy is in town," and the schedule may be "casual."

Of course in the "light automotive" maintenance trades, you can almost get by without even a screwdriver, because nearly everything is a "special tool" you can only get from the factory.

The accessibility of the Snap-On agents isn't too much of a problem if you're working in a fairly big shop, but can be a real b**ch in smaller, or independent, businesses. And of course it varies with what town you're in as well.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: Musket
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 05:11 AM

You used to be able to whack a wheel bearing off by offering a large socket and showing it a lump hammer when using Snap On.

The last time I tried it, a fairly new one broke. I popped down to B&Q in a rush, got a cheap and cheerful "Torq" socket at less than a third of the price, and it is still being used for that purpose by my mate on an almost daily basis six months on. (He runs a garage, I was repairing my sons's car in his workshop using, bless him, his tools. I suppose buying a set of pullers would be too radical.)

The poor Snap On bloke doesn't even get a mug of tea out of him now. I used to buy Snap On for our workshops when I was in business, but the tales I hear now are of falling quality. My one off recent experience is not the be all and end all, but it makes you think.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: EBarnacle
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 10:04 AM

when a screw slot or Phillips hole or body or hex fails, it is usually because of operator error. The hole has to be sized right, as does the fir of the driver to the insert point. If any one of these is sized wrong, you are likely to cause a problem. It is not the fault of the tool. I virtually eliminated failure of Frearson and Phillips heads when I began making sure everything was properly matched.

When planking boats, you begin to appreciate all of these factors.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: ranger1
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 10:16 AM

Us female types aren't commenting because we're too busy giggling.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 12:30 PM

ranger1,

Really, to be giggling at men's tools on Valentine's day! How cruel!!

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: frogprince
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 12:33 PM

Are snap-on tools popular with thespians?

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: EBarnacle
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 12:40 PM

What has sexual preference got to do with it?

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: GUEST,Callingbird
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 12:51 PM

Actually women should choose these tools for you guys...that way they can choose any length and thickness they want. Interchangable ones would be most popular too! Happy Valentines Day.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 01:03 PM

I have yet to find a need for larger than my 24" handled 1" drive socket set.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 01:14 PM

You only get a one inch drive out your socket? That explains a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 01:22 PM

Th sockets go to 3"- the drive is 1x1"

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: gnu
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 01:55 PM

Frearson are better than Philips for holding screws for one-handed insertion but still not as good as Robertson unless you have magnetized drivers. Frearson are scarce round these here parts... in my experience.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: EBarnacle
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 02:43 PM

As I misspelled above, if the fit is right, the driver should work properly. Any type other than straight slotted will hold the tip in the center for maximum drive from the tool.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 03:20 PM

One of the reasons that people have trouble with stripping the sockets on fasteners is that in the fairly distant past most of the utility fasteners were barely "stove bolt" quality, and weren't expected to to be tightened more than snug. Fasteners might have been tightened to 30,000 psi stress levels, but often were much lower. You just used bigger screws or more of them if you needed more strength.

Fairly generally, but especially in autos now, nearly all of the screws and bolts are at least SAE J429 Grade 4 or higher, and are expected to be "tightened to yield" for good retention. This puts the fastener tensile load up in the 90,000 psi range, and of course requires "more torque" to get there.

Structural fasteners are nearly always expected to be pulled down to something like 120,000 psi, and for "critical structures" the intended installed fastener stress may go close to 200,000 psi.

There are a lot more Fastener Choices easily available now than only a few years ago, and higher strengths are more frequently used. (The link shows a small sample of choices, there are lots more.)

You now run into lots more fasteners that are installed at higher torque than "back in the day" because they need to be tighter, and you need to install or reinstall replacements to the original higher torques. This obviously makes some of the older recess styles less suitable than they were in the uses for which they were designed.

There's nothing really wrong with the Phillips drive, if it's used for appropriate purposes. It does have a couple of weaknesses as commonly used. A main difficulty is that you must keep the driving tool lined up with the fastener. If you tilt the screwdriver it will cam out of the recess and is likely to ruin the screw. In addition, few people even know that the "screwdrivers" come in more than one size, and you must use the right size tool if you don't want to ruin a lot of screws. Unless you've had significant experience, or (gasp, choke) RTFM!!! it can be difficult to know which size screwdriver to use for a particular screw. An additional difficulty comes from the demand for a "bigger screwdriver" when using power tools to screw them in. A power screwdriver bigger than necessary will have too much "inertia" to stop when the necessary installation torque is reached, and will strip a lot of screws. The "automatic clutches" on popular sizes of "screwdrivers" don't really solve the problem.

Nearly all the more exotic drive configurations have been developed to facilitate automated power tool installation on assembly lines. You may have "preferences" for which others you like to see best, but if you're not on an assembly line "you're probably using them wrong." In this context, "wrong" can be perfectly satisfactory but the uncommon drive types are only there to make someone else's job easier, not yours. If the fastener is designed specifically for a high torque automated installation, you probably won't get it installed as intended (unless you RTFM again, and pay attention).

John

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 03:37 PM

g you keep talking about single handed applications for your tool. What are you doing with the other hand?

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: Midchuck
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 03:46 PM

you keep talking about single handed applications for your tool. What are you doing with the other hand?

In the old days, you turned the pages. Now, you work the mouse.

P.

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: gnu
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 04:01 PM

Hahahaa!

Subject: RE: BS: Snap-On tool
From: JennieG
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 04:08 PM

Himself used to be a sales rep, selling various brands of tools.....made for some raised eyebrows in social situations, let me tell you. He can talk tools with the best of them and knows the right tool for the right situation - now that's a very handy skill, yes? And important too, because the wrong tool can complete mess up the job in hand.

Me, I just sit here and chuckle.

Cheers
JennieG