Tech: How many songs fit on a standard CD

Subject: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: mg
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 12:08 AM

How does it work? Strictly by length of song..or caloric density i.e. # instruments X number of people ? How can I be so old and so dumb..good thing I am beautiful...mg

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 12:21 AM

there are a lot of factors and I won't drive you nuts with technical stuff. My songs are about average length 3-4 minutes. On a normal CD I can get 26- 27 songs. Does that help. It really is based on the size of the audio files .. but this is a pretty good guess for you

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 12:26 AM

And I don't use any special CD's except when I want to lightscripe the artwork. Just standard audio 800meg disks you can get anywhere cheap

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 12:28 AM

Isn't the common measurement 80 minutes? I know that when I create CDs from our concerts I sometimes have to stop transferring songs a bit early in order to keep a song entire.

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 12:53 AM

depends on the format, if you burn a CD with MP3 format which cannot be played on a standard player but can on the newer players then you can get far more songs. Typical audio yes 80 min .. but as for song you have some lead time before the song starts .. etc .. figured 20+ I get a few more because some of my CD is under 3 min each song some is 4 min .. I stuff as many that will fit on the CD.

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: mg
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 01:26 AM

I think we are talking wav files..aren't they bigger than mp3?

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: Bugsy
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 02:11 AM

If you are having them manufactured for you, around 70mins


Cheers

bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: Gurney
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 02:25 AM

If you burn with Nero, -everyone has Nero, do they not?- you just keep adding files/songs until the CD is full and the bar at the bottom changes colour.
If you are making a CD of MP3s, for the car, for instance, you can get more on, depending on the quality of the MP3, lots more. Again with Nero, it may be impossible to fill up the CD with MP3s unless you specify that they are data, not music. This may have something to do with the number of titles/file names. They still play.
It isn't a bad idea to have copies in the car. Several members here have had CDs stolen from their car.
If you put the files, MP3 or WAV, in a folder on the computer and then switch the computer off, they will go into alphabetical title order, which I think is something to be sought after.
That's what happens on mine, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: mg
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 03:02 AM

I am referring to CDs that you would sell and have commercially reproduced.

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 04:45 AM

On a commercial CD you can reasonably do 78 minutes, though the durations of most folk CDs tend towards vinyl album length of 50 minutes or so.

A CD is not a CD-R; just as a DVD is not a DVD+R / DVD-R. Artistes are forever selling their 'CD' when it is, in fact, a CD-R. It's a different beast entirely, despite superficial similarities. I wonder, do people not know they're different? Or are they pulling the proverbial fast-one? In any case it's misleading under trades descriptions. Plus the fact CD-Rs are rather cool because they cost nowt to make so you can sell them for less...

And those opportunistic folk singers I must bring 'em in,
With their home produced albums, they think it no sin,
To call it a CD when it's cheap CD-R,
That'll cost you 12 quid but won't play in the car...
Honesty's all out of fashion.
These are the riggs of the time, time, me boys
These are the riggs of the time...

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 06:06 AM

You are asking the wrong question.

It's not a matter of how many songs will fit on a CD. It's a matter of time. As Suibhne Astray points out, the maximum time a CD will hold is 80 minutes, That includes the 'empty' spaces between songs (average of three seconds per space. However, I would be reluctant to go past 77 or 78 minutes because sometimes the information stored on the CD is difficult for the laser reader to locate resulting in the machine gets screwed up and can't read a section of disk.

CDs are not read the way records are. They turn like vinyl records, but the information is stored like splatter-paint art. You will need to work out the length of each song to the second. Then allow for the dead space between songs then add all the times.

Suppose Johnny does four songs for his CD. If each song is 19 minutes and 59 seconds, and he puts 3 second gaps between songs, he will not be able to fit the four songs on the CD because he will have gone over 80 minutes. Another however: 80 minutes is an 'ideal' amount of time available on the CD. In a perfect world with a perfect CD with a perfect reader . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 07:40 AM

Seems to me this thread deserves to be above the line -- maybe with a "Tech" prefix?

---

Good idea. -Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 07:53 AM

999-

I certainly agree with you that 70 minutes is the absolute maximum that I would recommend. Much more and you run the risk of the final tracks sounded like gibberish, skipping lines, and doing other rude things. But don't take our word for it, experiment, and report your observations.

Again, I agree that the CD blank, the gape between tracks, and the reader are also variables. What I hear well on my home CD player is sometimes gibberish on the CD player in my van. The recent Mudcat CDs This Is Us are a case in point.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 02:33 PM

Charley, I'll keep that in mind. My own look into it was done on the www about eight months ago. I'll certainly take your word for it. Thank you very much.

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 04:30 PM

There is also the question of how many angels can dance on top of the CD while it is spinning?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 06:04 PM

GUEST,Suibhne Astray
What difference does it make to a listener whether it's a CD-R or a pressed CD? Sound quality is identical.

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 07:18 PM

Dick - it makes a difference if it won't play on your machine(s). I have come across several copied CD-Rs (represented as CDs) that won't play on various CD-players I have (one quite old, but happily plays all commecial CDs, others newer, with claims to read all formats of DVD/+R/-R/+RW/-RW, CD/R/RW, MP3, photo-discs etc).
Sometimes I have been able to copy the faulty CD-Rs via my computer, with the second copy being readable by the other CD-players, but sometimes the faulty CD-R is just unreadable on any machine. Still awaiting the return of the artists concerned (if ever!) before I can get my money back.

Are you saying that Camsco sells CD-R product at the same price as pressed CDs? (I understand the LoC/Folkways catalogue would be produced on-demand in CD-R format). And do you indicate to your customers that that is what they are getting?

There has been plenty of discussion both here and on other forums on the poor durability of recordings on CD-R, especially at the cheaper end of the market. I've just been surveying printable CD-Rs available through eBay. Unit prices range from 13p(20c?) to over £2($3) for "archive quality" (claiming 100/200/300 years security!) I'm guessing that most self-produced CD-R albums would be on quite low-priced stock - that's what is commonly available, the higher quality makes are quite hard to source, especially here in the UK - presumably sales aren't sufficient to allow importers quantity discounts.

Ross

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: Gurney
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 11:28 PM

The last few posters are not kidding. I have had a home-produced, printed 'CD' shed its silver layer and leave me with a transparent disc!

There have been threads concerning the quality and recommendations of various brands.

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 07:11 AM

The thin (poor quality) of some homebrew Cd 's - have a tendency to jam in some players.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

particularly unnerving when one gets stuck in a 300 disk player.

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 09:57 AM

Single shot rifles jam less frequently than machine guns.

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: olddude
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 10:29 AM

guys are right about many sticking. I lightscribe mine and never had a problem. However you need a lightscribe burner (not expensive) but the disks are more expensive. Many people put labels on the CD and that is I think the main reason they stick

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: Musket
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 11:51 AM

Inspired by The Reduced Shakespeare Company, I timed Sir Patrick Spens in an "up tempo" fashion and reckon however many songs you think, I can now beat it....

Most pressed CDs are 65 mins max in theory but etched to whatever happens to be recorded. Although this was always just about the case, in more recent years there have been data tracks for picking up the track names which may not sound much, but as a separate session take up far more than the data they include.

Blanks of any type can handle more but get dodgy towards the end, as you are using the outer section of the CD (as opposed to vinyl which works inwards) and the eccentricity of the "flat" CD is more pronounced at the outer edges so needs more over sampling than the CD player will provide.

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 12:11 PM

Thank you, Ian.

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: pdq
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 12:34 PM

Doc Watson's "Live on Stage" came out about 1971 and was on two LP records.

When the CD version was released in the 1990s, there was one CD with 71 minutes and 30 seconds. That was considered the maximum at the time and required that two (I believe) songs be left out.

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 12:59 PM

Legend has it that CD duration was set to accomodate Beethoven's 9th - an average of 74 minutes. Read about it HERE. I have CDs of classical music (Alia Vox) that push up to the 80-minute mark and are, of course, utterly flawless.

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 01:04 PM

CAMSCO is primarily a reseller. If what we get is a CD-R; that's what we sell. Any CD-R we sell carries the same warranty as do pressed CDs (replacement if they fail), and, over the course of a decade or so, I've encountered as many problems with commercially pressed CDs as with the CD-Rs. If you conside the limited sales potential of many of the CDs I carry (largely trad), it's easy to see why the minimum run size required for pressing is economically feasible. If sales over 1000 copies are envisioned, it's cheaper to have them pressed.
    Some of the most respected producers of traditional recordings are using CD-Rs, for the reasons mentioned. There's no intent to cheat anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 01:11 PM

And whilst were on about CD-lore, there was a a rumour that CDs were set to self-destruct after 10 years - some say by accident, others insist by design. You could conbat this, but only by keeping your precious disks in the freezer, which was said to vastly improve the sound anyway.

Otherwise, it makes no difference if you lightscribe or label a CD-R; unless you're using top quality disks, atrophy is integral to the experience! A label coming off a CD-R is a different issue of course. These days it's getting very hard to tell the difference just by looking at them, which is why we tend to use All Black unbranded Ritek CD-R (when we can get them) & letter them in hand with gold pen so they look as unlike a CD as possible.

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: mg
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 01:16 PM

As long as people are told CDs won't play in their car or given specifics about their performance...I didn't know until recently about CDs not playing in cars. mg

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 03:44 PM

CDs play fine in cars; careful with CD-Rs though, especially cheap ones.

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 07:33 PM

CDs in cars? Mine is still playing cassette tapes! Currently D L Menard from one of the local charity shops - 49p.

Subject: RE: BS: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 08:13 PM

The printable CDs we now buy for home-burning are Maxell CD-RP 700MB Printable Silver Matte Surface. The Memorex brand we first used were much less reliable.

If we're talking volume, we send them out to Oasis for printing.

The CD player in my Honda van is particularly hard on CDs; on long trips it runs hot and some home-burned CDs I've received from others end up sounding like gibberish (which was not the intent of the singers).

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Tech: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 02:16 AM

I know what you mean about Honda CD players, Charley. My 1989 and 1999 Honda CD players got really hot, and the player in the 1999 Honda died just after the warranty was up.
My 2007 Honda has a CD player that runs cool.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 03:49 AM

it makes no difference if you lightscribe or label a CD-R

It does when the label makes it too thick to fit into a front loading player. I have a number of labeled CDs that simply won't load into the CD player in my car.

Subject: RE: Tech: How many songs fit on a standard CD
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 08:11 AM

I would never insert a CD with a paper label into any drive I valued, given the risk of a jam. And there is no excuse for singers for using them, given the availability of inexpensive (about $100 now) Epson printers that print directly on a "printable" CD.

Charley Noble