Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 11:46 AM

I never heard "can I come with" until the last couple of years. It seems one of those irritating things, like saying "Come" instead of "Come in" when someone knocks on the door. (Of course, maybe the latter is just a *very* friendly invitation, come to think of it.)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 10:55 AM

I think the only time and place I encountered it was in the family I was working for as a children's companion in McHenry, Illinois in the summer of 1965. The father was a commercial artist working in Chicago and the kids' mother was a former beauty queen.

I may have heard it one or two isolated times since, but I don't recall when or where they were.

It was not heard in Milwaukee when I grew up there between 1950 and 1970, nor have I heard it in New England (Massachusetts, Maine and New Hampshire) from 1970 until now.

Linn

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: PHJim
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 10:32 AM

My Result is: North Central

This is what people call a "Minnesota accent" or "Fargo accent" as heard in the movies "Fargo" (obviously) and "Drop Dead Gorgeous." People with this accent live in northern part of Minnesota and in North Dakota, right next to the Canadian border. Some people might think you're a Canadian because of your accent.

These people would be correct. I am a Canadian.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: GUEST,¢ÀIona
Date: 18 Feb 12 - 12:09 AM

What sort of accent do you have?


I'm from Boston, apparently.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 06:32 PM

gross er ee

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: gnu
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 05:16 PM

Gro-ser-ie too?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 05:12 PM

Speaking of "grocery," how do you pronounce it?

I say "grossry" but a lot of people say "groshry."

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 03:42 PM

Not so long ago, before today`s "estuary English" was in vogue with some people it was not unusual in the East and South East to hear conversations similar to this,as follows:-

Her:- "Where have you been then?"
Him:- "Well I`ve gone to see him, didn`t I"
Her:- " What did he say then?"
Him:- " Well, he`s gone, "If I don`t get the money he`ll sue me", didn`t he"
Her:- " What did you do then?"
Him:- " Well, I told him what to do, didn`t I"
Her:- " What did he do then?"
Him:- "Well, he`s gone and whacked me, hasn`t he"
Etc.,etc.

Heaven knows how that final confirmation ever arose.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 02:15 PM

I think I would say at school..where are your kids? At school.

Where is your son? At college..or at school.

Now, next question..does everyone else say "I went and did it" instead of I just did it..or I went and got some milk at the grocery.
I went and got my hair cut. It is redundant but I know I say that a lot. Now I went and said it.

Reading that I realize I don't say grocery..I stay grocery store. Also, some people say they took the ferry or they see a ferry onthe water..I always say ferry boat. mg

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 11:14 AM

For starters, MtheGM, in the US we are generally not AT school, unless we are literally there at a given moment. Even then, we would be at THE school. :)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: GUEST,Tony
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 10:13 AM

I've only heard one person use "come with" and it was someone from Minneapolis (and I think he was the only person I've ever known from Minneapolis). I've lived in New Jersey, central Ohio, Kansas City, central Missouri, Lawrence KS, and Seattle, and have never heard anyone else use it.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 11:35 PM

In UK, on contrary, the term 'school' is only used for children's/adolescents' institutes. "Are you still at school?" would mean up to what you-over-there would call 'high school'? Even if one attends one of those constituent colleges of London Univ with 'School' in the title [London School of Economics; London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine...], one will be 'at university (or college)', never 'at school'.

~M~

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: PHJim
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 09:41 PM

In Canada, a university graduate has a bachelor's degree. A college graduate does not receive a bachelor's degree.
I considered myself "going to school" as long as I was being taught and was learning. This included elementary school, high school, college and university.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 06:33 PM

I like Ebbie's explanation of "Come here once." I think it accords with the way I've heard it.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Noreen
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 05:35 PM

I would say that in England, in my experience, (Lancs, Yorks and Worcs) most would say:

'Can I come?'
or
'Can I come too?'

Can't say I've ever heard anyone say 'Can I come with', unless followed by 'you'.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 03:28 PM

"throw the bull over the fence some hay... " open mike

Right. The reason is that German sentence construction is different from that of English, as is Pennsylvania Dutch (Which isn't Dutch at all, but 'Deutsch'); the sentence is being translated literally as constructed. The Amish have lots of funny stories that they tell on themselves.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 02:50 PM

It seems to me in Newfoundland they would say "the oncet". Like knock it off the oncet. Like right this very minute. mg

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: open mike
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 02:01 PM

Scandinavians often use that type of speech..
"Pennsylvania Dutch" is the term used for German people
and they are often are said to speak like this:
"throw the bull over the fence some hay... "
here is a web site with some more...
http://americanfolklore.blogspot.com/2005_05_15_archive.html

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 01:35 PM

Everywhere in the U.S., Joe. I recall people complaining about it in the '60s.

A quick Bing search finds 12,000 examples of the phrase "I graduated college in..." against 48,000 of "I graduated from college in..."

"I graduated from high school in..." gets 26,000 hits, but "I graduated high school in..." get 31,000.

In actual speech, I'd expect the phrase without "from" would be even more common, because people who don't post on the Net would be included, and those that do post might be less careful than when they write.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 01:33 PM

'Come here once' is also a 'plain folk' construction, imo, which in turn derives from German. 'Once' spoken in the dialect, generally has the connotation of 'come here a minute', - in other words, 'this won't take long.'

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 01:23 PM

Art sez: In my experience, 'college' and 'university' are synonymous: e.g., "where did you go to college?" "I went to the University of Utah."

Correctamente, Art. But would you ask, "where did you go to university? It seems that in the U.S., you can name an institution "university," but you don't use it in a nonspecific sense.

Lighter, in what part of the world have you heard the expression, "I graduated college"?

Another one: Since I'm a Catholic seminarian, I say, "I was in the seminary." If I were Protestant, I would say "I was in seminary."

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 01:16 PM

The ya sure thing is part of our non-dialect here in Washington. I know I say it. In fact, I betcha we almost never say a plain yes or no here. I personally do not say the words all together, but many do, and it is their natural way of speaking...

Ya betcha would be even more of a yes I believe.

Do you want a cookie ? Ya sure.

Do you want a chocolate chip cookie? Ya betcha.

Do you want a chocolate chip cookie with ice cream? Ya sure ya betcha.

For no we say na I think. I doubt I really ever say no. Naaa..

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 12:34 PM

John: Yes, but...

When people say "Come here once" they put the emphasis on "here"; the word "once" is spoken without emphasis, as if it had no important meaning but was only there for grammatical completeness. Suppose a kid had some strange but probably harmless object in his hand and you wanted to see what it was. You might say, without urgency, "Come here once" in the same tone of voice, and with the same pattern of emphasis as "What is it?"

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 11:46 AM

Jim,
          Stick "at" in there and it all makes sense:- e.g. "Come here at once!!"

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 11:33 AM

We've probably discussed "come with" to death, so I think it's OK to allow some digression.

"Ya sure—you betcha" is a stereotypical expression supposedly used by Scandinavian old-timers. It is well known in Minnesota but mostly used facetiously and spoken in an appropriate accent. It is not yuppie-speak; more the exact opposite.

I have seen "Ya sure—ya betcha" printed on the label of Red Hook Ale, from Washington State, but I think they have changed their design recently and eliminated the slogan.

Another expression you sometimes hear in Minnesota is "Come here once." I don't know why they add "once"; it means exactly the same thing as "come here." It's usually spoken in the abrupt commanding tone that you might use with a child. If you're speaking to an adult and you want to be polite, you would say, "Would you come over here, please?" I haven't heard "I'll go to the store once" however.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 10:34 AM

Joe ~ The collegiate system which obtains at our older universities {Oxford, Cambridge, Durham, St Andrews} is a social grouping. Each college admits its own students, who live and eat &c within it, & become members of the University by virtue of their membership of the college, which is a part of the university. The college will be responsible for the student's welfare, & also provide some individual or small group or seminar teaching within the student's subject, which might be within any faculty; and it is the faculties of the University as a body which provide the main teaching, appoint the lecturers, set the examinations, &c. So that a Cambridge student will be at King's, Christ's, Trinity &c College, but might be a member of any faculty depending on his subject of study.

Often asked by tourists in Cambridge, where I still live, the way to the University, my reply is that there is no individual building which constitutes the University, but the University is a 'federation' of all its constituent colleges. That word generally clarifies it for them.

~M~

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 10:27 AM

In my experience, 'college' and 'university' are synonymous: e.g., "where did you go to college?" "I went to the University of Utah."

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 09:34 AM

Of course, the original (now impossibly clumsy idiom) was "to be graduated from."

Incredibly, I can't find the "graduate college" usage even in the most recent OED.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 09:17 AM

Dunno about Joe, but the phrase "to graduate college (or high school, but *never* university)" has been normal - maybe even predominant - in my experience for almost as long as I can remember (early '60s).

I think, though, that people still prefer "from" when the institution is named: "She graduated from Harvard/ Podunk/ etc."

Who said it has to make sense?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Snuffy
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 09:02 AM

It certainly seems like a straight translation of German/Dutch: I don't recall ever hearing it here in the UK.

But I do know a man from Glasgow who uses Joe's construction of "The faucet needs fixed". He says things like "That mess needs removed" where normal English would be either "... needs removing" or "... needs to be removed

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Mo the caller
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 08:06 AM

I don't think anyone used the expression 'come with' when I was growing up London in the 40s & 50s.
I think I first met it in a book, so no idea what the regional dialect was.

The one that drives us mad is when we watch the words and numbers game Countdown is "times by". I think this is a generation gap thing. For us you can say "3 times 4" or "3 multiplied by 4" but "Add 1 and 2 then times it by 4" is just plain WRONG.
Except that language doesn't have grammar it has usage. (Still sounds wrong though).

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 05:01 AM

I've never heard anyone say it and never seen it in writing (spent most of my life in Scotland, shorter periods in New Zealand, England, the US and Australia).

I'd have guessed it was a German-Americanism.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 01:51 AM

Hi, Mike-
Although the word "University" is used often in the U.S., it is sometimes perceived to have an air of pretentiousness. Many U.S. colleges assumed the title of "university" without having much in the way of advanced degree offerings, and without being in any way comparable to the great universities like Harvard and Stanford and the like.

A subdivision within a university is often called a "school" (and sometimes a "college") - "medical school," "law school," "school of engineering."

I don't completely understand the term "college" as used in the U.S. In the U.S., a "college" is a four-year school; or a subdivision of a university that teaches a specific academic discipline, like engineering. At Cambridge, Kings College seems to be somewhat different, but I didn't quite catch the differences.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 01:26 AM

Following this drift a bit -- Why do you over there use 'school' for university or college? Seems to me an odd diminution of the status of institutes of higher education. I once remarked to a visiting American neighbour at Christ's College Cambridge, my alma mater, that I had been at school with an actor who had been mentioned. Of course I meant Hendon County Grammar School in N London, which I attended 11-18 "Here at Christ's?" she astounded me by replying.

~M~

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 01:17 AM

I've never heard the term "graduated university" in the U.S. Although the term university is used, an American would say "I graduated from college" and "I went to college."

In the U.S. a university usually has a four-year college program for Bachelors degrees, but it also has advanced degrees (Masters and Doctorate).

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 01:02 AM

Re "graduate university" - we would say "from university". American English does sometimes use a verb transitively where we would need an adverb or preposition ~ "graduate from university" [which I gather from the post is perhaps the more usual usage over there also?]. But you "protest" things transitively - "A demonstration was held to protest the new rules" - where we could only "protest against".

Thank you for clarification re 'folklore' category, Jo

~M~

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 11:52 PM

I don't believe I ever heard the phrase (in English) before the last 20 or 30 years. I know we didn't use it (in English) in Oregon or Virginia.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 11:22 PM

I thought it was an expression used only in Southeastern Wisconsin. I moved there from Detroit in 1958, and never got used to the expression - I'd say it just to be funny. Then I dated a woman from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania - and she used that expression. She also said, "The faucet needs fixed," (our Pennsylvania Max says that, too) and we didn't have that expression in Wisconsin.

As leeneia says above, it seems to come from the German verb "mitkommen" - the "mit" being a separable prefix.

-Joe-

MtheGM - while linguistics could possibly not fit into "folklore," we've always classed it under the Folklore tag here - and it stays in the music section, because it's often related to music.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: PHJim
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 10:14 PM

The folks on the original CSI TV show use this expression regularly, especially Catherine.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Kent Davis
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 10:06 PM

I've lived in Southwest Virginia, Southern West Virginia, the South Carolina Low Country, Middle Tennessee, and Southeast Ohio, but never above the Mason-Dixon line. I've never heard the expression.

Kent

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 09:53 PM

First heard it along the eastern shore of Nova Scotia... "Are you coming with?" Perfectly logical. Especially when heard late at night. Ya don't question grammar late at night. Ya just go with the flow. >;-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: John P
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 09:44 PM

Yes, and burning a house up and burning a house down are the same. But that's probably a different thread.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Joe_F
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 09:34 PM

It isn't part of my dialect. But it causes me to notice that there is a large overlap between prepositions & adverbs in English: "up", "down", "around", "about", "along", and many other can be either. The thing has ragged edges, as most things in language do: consider the cases of in(to) & out (of). Thus, it is rather an oddity, but not surprising, that in standard English "with" cannot be an adverb (one has to use "along" instead); but neither is it surprising that some dialects have filled in that hole.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 07:46 PM

what stuns me is when people say I graduated university

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 07:45 PM

It's abnormal, nonstandard English because I don't say it.

(NYC, USA)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: Jon Corelis
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 07:37 PM

"Do you want to come with?" is normal, standard English, because it's what I say.

(upper Midwest USA)

Jon Corelis
Jon Corelis: Poems, Plays, Songs, and Essays

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: John P
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 07:17 PM

I grew up with it in Michigan. I was in a Dutch immigrant community.

Some Dutchisms that we used a lot that don't translate so well:

"Run upstairs only."
"I'll go to the store once."

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 06:58 PM

yup. From too many places to be sure where I got this one.

~S~

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 04:53 PM

only when I am making love

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who says 'Can I come with?'
From: gnomad
Date: 15 Feb 12 - 03:47 PM

I never encountered this construction, living in a variety of places within Yorkshire, N Lincolnshire and with connections into the midlands, but for two colleagues at different times, places and industries.

Both the chaps who used it were from N.W.Scotland, but I have no idea whether that is just a coincidence. I doubt that they were related to each other, being a Campbell and a MacLeod. They would also be about 40 years apart in age.