BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Mar 12 - 12:28 PM

""Think I've solved that problem Don...you could offer to be the donor!""

Sorry Ake, I'm saving it up for you.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Mar 12 - 06:13 PM

The problem with the Big Brother stuff is that Bush pushed it thru, against standing FISA requirements that a search warrant be secured and now we are stuck with it... If Obama were to try to go back to the FISA days guess what the right would be using as their centerpiece for the 2012 election???I can hear the ads now...

"Obama want the underwear bomber to succeed next time... Call the White House and tell President Obama that you don't want your children blown up on an airliner"...

BTW, lots of us on the left are hoping there is a Trajan Horse aspect to Obama...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Mar 12 - 01:08 PM

Ake, you're all heart.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Mar 12 - 12:36 PM

"Manipulative certainly TIA, but he will need a radical brain transplant to qualify as stupid."

Think I've solved that problem Don...you could offer to be the donor!
;0)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Mar 12 - 11:56 AM

You know, it strikes me that it is not at all surprising that any agency charged with the security of a nation should be interested in repeated visits online, or wherever, by anyone , professional or not. It seems to me that far from being harmful or BigBrotherish it is beneficial and to be expected. This is the Computer Age, after all.

I don't mean harassment in any sense but contact, yes.

Otherwise, when some individual or bloc carries out a plot, we would be saying: Wasn't anyone watching?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Mar 12 - 11:02 AM

THIS is the man y'all need as president.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Mar 12 - 08:11 PM

""You are either stupid or manipulative or both, please choose which.
Thanks.""

Manipulative certainly TIA, but he will need a radical brain transplant to qualify as stupid.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Mar 12 - 08:06 PM

Those (especiallyi Little Hawk and Ake) who keep beating the humdrum about how both parties are totally corrupt and we must change the system are preaching to the choir.

We know that!!

What they are really short on is HOW we are to go about changing the system.

It doesn't take a genius to point out the problem. Especially when they do it in thread after thread, and in all of that verbiage, not one suggestion other than "Vote for Dennis Kucinich" or "Gotta have a revolution."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Mar 12 - 07:59 PM

""It worked for Oliver Cromwell. It worked for the nobles who forced the King to sign the Magna Carta in England.""

Only insofar as the King went from a position of divine right to a constitutional monarchy.

The period under Cromwell's rule was a period of murder, mayhem and oppression, relieved only by his timely demise.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: John P
Date: 01 Mar 12 - 07:41 PM

Adherance to the policies of either of the political parties is one of the biggest impediments to clear thought.

Who are you talking about? Everyone on this thread has made it very clear that they don't adhere to the policies of any political party because the parties are corrupt and part of the problem. It sounds like you may be confusing human rights with partisan politics.

Nice job of proving Tia correct, by the way!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: number 6
Date: 01 Mar 12 - 06:28 PM

"My philosophy is not to start a war, but start ordinary people of both left and right, thinking about the future, working out what the REAL problems are and recognising false trails.
Adherance to the policies of either of the political parties is one of the biggest impediments to clear thought.
There has never been a better time in my life to start on a new road, the system is weak....but still dangerous. "

Exactly Ak ..... I agree with that 100% .... right on.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Mar 12 - 05:54 PM

"Blood running in the streets"....you must be fuckin' mad Don, why would I want that, when it would certainly be our own blood?

They have all the guns, are well organised and willing to hang on to power at any cost(that means our lives or our liberty).
Do you not understand that should the need arise the "nice" Democrats are as likely as the Republicans to slaughter us where we stand.
Preservation of the present system is all important to those who control Global Capitalism, as little Hawk says they do that at present by keeping the people divided.....by creating diversions...by manipulation of every one of us through the use of money..."equality", "race","gender" all the "liberal" buzzwords.

It will take decades to change this system, and it will only happened through unity....if we continue to fight one another over these phoney divisions, we are doomed to be continually oppressed.

All over the Western developed nations, the left are in the minority.....dont you realise that the UK and US are deeply conservative and those who vote Conservative are manipulated in the same way as we on the left.
Until we grow up enough to accept that fact and use it to our advantage against the machine we can never win.

My philosophy is not to start a war, but start ordinary people of both left and right, thinking about the future, working out what the REAL problems are and recognising false trails.
Adherance to the policies of either of the political parties is one of the biggest impediments to clear thought.
There has never been a better time in my life to start on a new road, the system is weak....but still dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Mar 12 - 08:56 AM

Thanks, TIA...

Looks like I can take the day off...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 01 Mar 12 - 01:01 AM

Spew, spew, spew.

Perfect example.

Is this simply the other side of a symmetrical coin?

Discuss amongst yourselves.

(and Akenaton, please jump in and label this as a reflexive defense of Obama and the system. But remember...if you do, you prove my point). Go!


P.S.
Nice try SongStupidDistorterWronger

"unemployment insurance gives a verifiable and significant boost to the economy"

is not the same as

"Unemployment stimulates the economy"

Unless of course you do not understand logic and rhetoric.

You are either stupid or manipulative or both, please choose which.
Thanks.

And LH - do you view this as a defense of logic or a defense of Obama...think first, then answer because this is exactly the point of our recent discussions.
Thanks and respect,
TIA

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Songwronger
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 11:26 PM

Here's my favorite current piece from AttackWatch.com:

Romney team falsely compares unemployment aid to the iceberg that hit the Titanic

Mitt Romney's team attacked the President for extending unemployment insurance because saying that the program helps the economy is like "saying an iceberg stimulated the Titanic."

TRUTH TEAM RESPONSE: The facts don't help Romney's attack stay afloat because, in reality, unemployment insurance gives a verifiable and significant boost to the economy.

lol. Unemployment stimulates the economy. heysoosfreekinchreestos.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Songwronger
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 11:13 PM

An interesting example of a sheriff exercising his authority in his county.

Sheriff Arpaio was asked by his constituency to look into the matter of Obama's eligibility to serve as president. Tomorrow Arpaio releases his findings. Federal courts keep blocking cases regarding this (big government will protect big government), but the feds can't stop this sheriff. It's a county matter, not a federal matter.

Obama's furious about it. Throwing hissy fits and playing race cards right and left. Pretty amusing.

http://www.wnd.com/2011/10/352109/

But my point is, if Obama's so powerful, then why doesn't he just put a stop to this event tomorrow? Because he can't. He's just the president, but Arpaio is the sheriff of his county. He word is final.

You can put pressure on your local sheriff to disregard abusive and illegal federal legislation. That's the way to deal with the abuses of big government in your life.

One of the points I find interesting in the Obama eligibility mess is that his bogus social security card has Connecticut numbers. That's the one state in the union that did away with their sheriffs.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 10:58 PM

LH,
I do think we are on the same team. I appreciate that you are getting angry reading Shock Doctrine...I read it 2 years ago and got angry also. I think we would agree on nearly everything. Don Firth makes a really good point above - sometimes (however well meaning and intelligent I am convinced you are) you do seem to lecture us about things that we are perfectly well aware of, have thought deeply about, and have devised the best strategy available to us to try to change it. Trust me, I am no automaton. If DHS has a file on anyone - they have a thick one on me. I have been "visited". No shit.
I am perfectly aware that our government (Obama included) is bought and paid for. We are not a Democracy anymore. And that is largely due to the makeup of the Supreme court. Shall I throw up may hands and let President Santorum pick the next two Justices? Really - how do you answer that?
Never assume that because we are involved in US politics and prefer certain outcomes that we are uninformed or knee-jerkers. I and many whom you occasionally (and perhaps unintentionally) denigrate are fully informed. I have even met Naomi Wolff, and Bill McKibben, and Mohammed Yunus, and (... I am bragging....) Naomi is a brilliant Canadian as I am sure you know.
So if I appear annoyed at you sometimes, it is not because I disagree with you, it is because you seem to make certain assumptions about me. And perhaps in saying that I am making certain assumptions about you...sorry.
John P has it just perfect above. In current US Politics, Dems are not the same but opposite of Repubs. Dems are corrupt and need to go, but FSM help us all if we decide that the bastards are all the same and let the Repubs take over. Simple question - would you ever ever ever consider moving back to the USA if there is a Repub President, Senate, and House, and they have appointed all the Supremes?
Of course you wouldn't. In fact I would be in Canada a block or so down from you.

And in closing:
"They all support that system Little Hawk and any attack on it is perceived as an attack on them personally"
Thanks Akenaton - you are just an ignorant ass who displays no understanding of US politics. You apply your own definitons and assumptions and think you have it all figured out. I thank FSM that you do not vote here. F-up your own country while we try to fix ours. Thanks very much. Buh Bye.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 10:10 PM

But lots of times when you go into your professorial/guru mode, you get it way wrong.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 10:05 PM

You know, Little Hawk, one of the major things that makes you a royal pain in the ass sometimes is that you insist on lecturing people about things they ALREADY KNOW.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 09:43 PM

I'm not necessarily defending Akenaton's personal view of revolution, Don...I'm just wondering why the only example of revolution you thought to quote was what happened in the Soviet Union?

There are many forms of revolution. They don't all require blood to be flowing in the street. The Occupy movement is an attempt at a nonviolent revolution of sorts, is it not? Any great change in human affairs can be considered a revolution...the word means "a great turn of events". One can have a revolution in social philosophy too. It doesn't have to involve bloodshed.

So why did you only think of Lenin's and Stalin's version of it?

As for Cuba, it's not perfect. No place is. But it's way, WAY better off than it would have been if Batista and his USA criminal business and army buddies had not been replaced by Castro's revolution. WAY better off. I've been there. I have some basis for saying this. Cubans are immeasurably better off than they would have been without Castro. Why do many of them try to reach Florida? For the same reasons that a vastly greater number of OTHER Latin Americans try to get into the USA through Mexico!

And the reasons for that are so many and so obvious that I really don't even see why I should continue tiring out my fingers explaining them to you or anyone else here. They are looking for a variety of things, material and otherwise, that they figure they might be able to find in the USA, that's why. NOT just Cubans, Don. MILLIONS of Latin Americans from a whole bunch of countries that are poorer on average than we in North America are. And the Cubans are better off than most of them. Cuba is safe. It's not full of drug wars like Mexico. Its streets are safe. Its people have free and good medical care of every sort, very cheap utilities and rent, a place to live, available work, and free education for everyone right through university. Who else in the world has that? They train more doctors per capita than any other nation in the world (and a majority of them are women).

You point to people who have fled Cuba. Don, people have fled the USA for political reasons too. Good people. Ever since Vietnam. And I know some of them. I am glad they're here.

I also know Cubans, brave people with high ideals, who came here to Canada to visit. They did not seek to be "refugees" here while visiting, they went back to Cuba with no regrets at all, because they are proud of their society and they believe in it. I hope you get to meet some of them one day and they can tell you why it is that they are proud of Cuba. They remember what it was like before Castro.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 08:41 PM

Bobert got it, Little Hawk.

Ake has indicated a number of times that he's one of those who won't be happy until blood runs in the streets. Even if there are less violent ways of accomplishing the goal.

Same sort of arguments as the guys who hung out for years in the back booth of Seattle's infamous Blue Moon Tavern. Avowed Communists. They'd plot. Week after week, year after year, they'd plot. But nobody ever did anything.

Except drink whole oceans of beer.

I've heard the lingo. I recognize it.

Don Firth

P. S. By the way, if Cuba is such a People's Paradise, why did so many thousands of people risk their lives by climbing into row boats, take to the open sea, and try to row to Florida? It still happens.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 07:40 PM

Don's post was obviously about communism, LH... Cuba??? Check... The rest??? No...

As for revolution??? I donno if overthrowing an existing regime is automatically a "revolution"... I'm sure you will agree that most aren't...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 07:05 PM

It worked out well in Cuba, Don. That's basically what Castro did, he "stormed the palace" though it took several years for him to do it, not one day. I've been to Cuba, and I approve of what their revolution accomplished.

It worked for American revolutionaries too...in the late 1700s...and Americans all claim NOW to be in favor of that violent revolution.

It worked for Oliver Cromwell. It worked for the nobles who forced the King to sign the Magna Carta in England.

It worked for the French in their revolution (though the period of transition to a republic was brutal...but in the end it produced a true republic which was far better than what had preceded it.

It worked in Nationalist Spain until Franco and Hitler helped crush that popular revolution.

It worked all over Latin America in the 1800s. Simon Bolivar and other revolutionaries like him are still heroes down there.

It has partially worked in Egypt recently (but they've got a long way to go). It appears to have succeeded in Lybia (though the results are highly suspect, in my opinion. It seems to be underway in Syria...again the process is suspect in certain respects.)

In any case it (revolution) has worked in hundreds of places where it produced positive change. Why do you ignore all the places where it has worked (including your own country!) and point only to the excessive brutalities of Lenin and Stalin?

Has revolution become "unfashionable" in the America that was born out of a revolution? And why would that be? Think about it. Established powers and elites guard their turf jealously...and they ALWAYS oppose any notion of a revolution on their own ground. They might lose their special privileges if that happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 07:04 PM

BTW...

...200...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 06:32 PM

Ake's solution to the problems of the world is to storm the Winter Palace.

It's been done, Ake. What it produced was Joe Stalin and the Soviet Union. Didn't work out real well, did it?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 05:51 PM

Oh Bull, Ake...

I agree wholeheartedly with John... The Republican PR machine has put out this idea that both parties are guilty and that there is rampant partisanship on both sides... That is mythology... There is rampant partisanship on one side but if the Republican PR folks can get enough parrots on board to repeat their BIG LIE then they have leveled the palying field in the eyes of the voters and will not be punished for their bad behavior/s...

Exhibit A: During the debt ceiling slobber-knocker that the Republicans ***manufactured*** the following occurred:

1. The Republicans demanded a "large deal"

2. Obama and the Dems said, "Okay, let's do it"

3. The the Republicans demanded that medicare and Social Security be on the table.

4. Obama and the Dems said, "okay, let's do it"

5. The the Republicans said, "Ya'll give eeverything and we ain't giving you shit... Not one dime!!!"

6. Then the United States credit rating was down-graded...

7. Then the Repubs demanded a short deal...

8. Obama and the Dems said, "Okay, let's do it"

This is purdy much what has been going on since Obama was elected... Dems have given and given and given and the Repubs have taken and taken and taken...

And now they want everyone to think that both side have misbehaved???

Give my ol' hillbilly butt a break... And no... I don't wnat to buy your friggin' bridge, either...

Sheesh...

And for all the "Both Sides Parrots"??? Bite me!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 01:06 PM

They all support that system Little Hawk and any attack on it is perceived as an attack on them personally.

You have absolutely nothing to apologise for, rather we should be commending you on your insight.

Keep flying free!!    :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 11:30 AM

Hmmm. Okay, John. Perhaps I, in my deep frustration with what's going on in the world, am just getting a bit carried away at times with my own rhetoric here. That tends to happen when a person gets angry, and I get very angry at what's going on in the halls of power all across this world.

I've been reading "The Shock Doctrine" and it's been making me really angry about what happened down in Latin America, starting on September 11, 1973 with the violent overthrow of the democratically elected Allende government in Chile by a group of Army officers...then being followed by other military takeovers in Brazil, Argentina, and Uruguay over the next decade. Those countries were prosperous and happy before the military takeovers, with a rapidly growing middle class and rapidly improving economies that benefited the entire public. They had democratically elected governments which were strongly supported by the vast majority of citizens.

After the coups, all of which were orchestrated by alumni of Milton Friedman's Chicago School of Economics and put into motion by well-trained CIA agents backed by thugs in the Latin American military forces of the respective countries, those countries faced mass arrests, torture of hundreds of thousands of innocent citizens, execution/disappearance of tens of thousands, and the establishment of military dictatorships which were mostly praised in the USA mass media at the time. This was supposedly done to establish FREEDOM!

Talk about employing the BIG LIE principle! And who did those takeovers benefit? They benefited a tiny rich elite, they impoverished the rest of the public, and they opened the door to privatization of public industries and institutions and takeover of those industries and national resources by a consortium of huge American corporations!

It's been the organized rape of the world for the sake of corporate profits. It's been going on since the end of WWII (it started off in Iran with a CIA-backed coup against a democratically elected secular government). No American president has stood up to stop it.

This enrages me. Rage drives people sometimes to bitter and harsh rhetoric.

If my harsh rhetoric has offended any of you, I regret it. My anger is not aimed at you, it's aimed at the overall system we live under.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: pdq
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 10:16 AM

Here is a great place to find out...


                                                                         ...what departments went into making Homeland Security

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: John P
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 09:34 AM

Little Hawk, it's not about you personally. For my part, I like you and find you mostly charming and witty. The reason people keep picking at you is because you, on every political thread you can shoehorn it into, go on about how we're all a bunch of automatons who are being lead around by the nose and whose struggles are manufactured by the ruling rich corporations to keep us busy while they raid the henhouse. You always manage to mention how the Republicans and the Democrats are all the same. And that's the problem. I said this yesterday without getting any response from you: when you, an intelligent and erudite man with advanced writing skills and an air of being fair an balanced, write that the politicians are all the same and that issues of the day are unimportant, you are in support of the people who want to take over our lives. A basic part of their lie is that we do the same things they do. They want us to believe that the problems in Congress are due to partisanship and not to obstructive Republicans, etc etc. Every time someone like you makes the claims you make, their basic lie gets a boost in believability.

We all know you're a nice, thoughtful person. We all know you basically agree with us on these issues. We all also know that you regularly denigrate the issues that have huge impacts on our lives as well as our efforts to do something about them.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 08:35 AM

Yeah, Joe, I purdy much posted that already... The DHS is more a reshuffling than anything new...The Coast Guard, if I am not mistaken, is also now under DHS...


B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 05:30 AM

Well, FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) and ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) are now part of the Department of Homeland Security, which was formed in 2002. Immigration came from the Department of Justice, Customs from Treasury, and FEMA had been an independent agency.

Former Arizona Governor Janet Napolitano has been United States Secretary of Homeland Security since January, 2009. She was appointed by President Barack Obama and confirmed by the U.S. Senate. It seems to me that she's doing a pretty good job.

Over a period of 30 years, I did security clearance investigations on hundreds of employees of Customs, Immigration, and FEMA - including people at the highest levels of management. With few exceptions, these employees were decent people doing a pretty good job, dedicated to serving the public. Nonetheless, there were lots of things I didn't like about aspects of these agencies, particularly Immigration. I'm not likely to believe any conspiracy theories about these agencies, though. They had normal problems, nothing disastrous.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 02:07 AM

I got a little charged up there. But not because I have anything against you, TIA. I just don't enjoy being extremely misunderstood as regards both my motivations and my intentions. I am not against you. Matter of fact, it looks to me like we are very much on the same side.

But I don't live in the USA. That puts us in a rather different spot in a number of respects.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 02:02 AM

I don't get this negative attitude you have toward me personally, TIA. I agree with you on all these concerns you are mentioning in your last post. I cannot fathom how you think I don't agree with you or what the hell you are talking about regarding my supposed "disdain" (for what???). I disdain the 2 big political parties...yes!...because they've sold out to lobbyists. I don't disdain YOU.

It was I who asked Bobert if he'd read Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine", because I think it's an absolutely brilliant book and expose' that everyone should read. You apparently think so too. Where the hell do you think we disagree on that?

Where do you think I'm telling you to "give up"? I am NOT telling you to give up.

I'm not saying you should vote for Kucinich for president! There's utterly no chance of him becoming president in corporate Amerika. I'm saying you could contribute to getting him re-elected in his present riding, for Chrissake!

They have gerrymandered his old riding so as to deprive him of many votes, and they are slandering him on TV with all kinds of utterly false accusations. He needs help right NOW from many other Americans to get re-elected to the House of Representatives! Not to the presidency.

Now, understand: unlike you, I am not an American. I don't live in the USA. And thank God for that! If I did, I'd be trying to get out to some other country if I possibly could. I don't doubt that "they" (you know who) called you up about those websites you were visiting.

And, yes, the 1% IS your shadow government. But it is not my position to tell YOU or anyone else in the USA what to do about it. That you have to decide for yourself. If you wish to openly fight them (in what manner?)...that's your decision. And you have to decide how you're going to do it. I am not going to advise you one way or the other about it, because only you can make a decision like that. I would not presume to advise you on a matter that could well cost you your life.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 12:07 AM

The shadow government *is* the 1%.

And your sheriff and DHS already have drones (UAVs) that make sure you toe the line.

Obama is not stopping it, but I'd rather have him than Santorum doing the same *plus* sticking a probe up my daughters' vaginas in the name of purity.

If I can choose to live in 1984 plus Handmaid's Tale or just 1984, I will rush to the barricades for 1984 (to F Handmaid's Tale) and at every opportunity I will also rush to the barricades to fight 1984.

No offense LH, but are you seriously advocating that we should not fight because it is hopeless (or that we should vote for an admirable no-chance-in-hell purely on principle while the probes go up the vaginas? I really do want to understand the philosophy behind your disdain.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Songwronger
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 11:46 PM

So what's the question? Who runs the terror network in America?

We have two governments--our traditional elected government, and the shadow government. "Shadow government" is not a conspiracist term. It an acknowledged fact.

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oG7lTtqU1PjWIAg1VXNyoA?p=jack+brooks+rex+84&fr2=sb-top&fr=yfp-t-701&type_param=

Yahoo links to congressman Jack Brooks in a congressional session in 1987. Arch-traitor Ollie North was involved in setting up a secret arrest and detention program called Rex 84, and when Brooks asked about it, North and Inouye wouldn't answer his questions. Look at that clip. Brooks is saying a secret government was front page national news that day, yet North refused to talk about it. 25 years ago.

Rex 84 was set up to deal with "illegals" from Mexico. Round them up and detain them. Those plans have blossomed to the point where now Obama says that he can kill or "disappear" any American he deems to be a "terrorist." And the Dept of Defense and Haliburton are hiring "internment and relocation specialists" for FEMA camps.

Anyway, the US has 2 governments, and the shadow government is taking over the elected government. All our candidates are CIA spooks, like the Bushes, Obama, Clinton.

What can be done....be aware that your local sheriff is the ultimate authority in your county. Your sheriff has more power in your county than the president of the U.S. Talk to your sheriff and make sure he's aware of this. There are lots of sheriffs' organizations on the internet that explain and promote this stuff. I think there are 2600 counties and parishes in the U.S., so that's 2,600 people who can overrule the president on anything. Anything. Make sure your sheriff is aware of the constitutional protections his people have, and make him aware of illegal actions like the NDAA, PATRIOT Act and so on.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 11:00 PM

Callin' my North Carolina representative is a waste of time... I'd be better off asking a rock...

What's the deal, brucie???

Seriously, man???

Where are you going with this??? Gimme a clue and I'll help... PM me a clue and I'll help... Send me a postcard and I'll help...

Sorry... I am clueless on this one???

B???

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 10:54 PM

Dear Guys,

Am I to understand by these remarks that

1) no one has dared call a representative?

2) I should fuck off?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 10:38 PM

999-
Not to get you even more upset, but here's (an absolutley true) anecdote...

I am a scientist (anyone surprised?) doing research in physics, aimed at detecting hiddent objects.

Did some online (Jstor, ISI, etc.) research into IEDs, and within 24 hours, I got a call from DHS asking why I was visiting various websites. No shit. Really happened. Big Brother is not just watching, he has his hand around your prick...(and they just heard/read me saying that). Hi boys!!!!! It's TIA typing IED again. Call me!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 07:16 PM

DHS is controlled by various factions and people... Ya' have to remember that it was several existing agencies pulled into one with a cabinet level Secretary in Janet Napolitano... The President has some ultimate control, however, Congress has it fingers in the pie along with career bureaucrats...

I mean, it ain't some "shadow government", brucie...

What am I missing in your question???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 06:54 PM

Have any of you called your senators and congressmen/women to ask who controls FEMA/DHS/ICE? If so, what have you been told?

I'm getting the distinct feeling people are afraid to speak with their representatives about it. If so--and I don't blame you--doesn't THAT tell y'all something?



Talk is cheap, 'cept when ya gotta make the call.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 06:49 PM

Does anyone know WHO controls the organizations I mentioned, and has ANYone called?

Jesus fucking Christ, answer the question! I have been asking for three FUCKING YEARS!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 04:57 PM

Support him, yes. But knowing that he hasn't a ghost of a chance of becoming President?

And even if he DID somehow become president, he would run into the same stone wall that Barack Obama did?

Barack Obama is fine. What we need to do is replace Congress!

(Elementary, my dear Little Hawk.)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 04:27 PM

And I do support the Occupy movement.

I do not support the big political parties, because I know who they work for...not for you and me, that's for sure! There is occasionally an individual candidate within one of the political parties who I will support. Dennis Kucinich is one such. I don't support him on account of his Democratic party affiliation, but on account of his stated ideals and his record while in office.

I would support him no matter what party he was in...because of who and what he is.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 04:19 PM

I do not support the people who want to control your life, John.

The only person I can think of in USA politics whom I support without reservation is Dennis Kucinich. He does not want to control your life. I am deeply and fundamentally opposed to ALL the people who want to control your life...and mine...simply to enrich themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 01:52 PM

Fortunately, the US today has an alternative to its corruption and war-mongering, Bernie Sanders, in the Senate, Barbara Lee in the House, Kucinich, John Lewis of Georgia but the main impetus for social change lies with the Occupy Wall Street Movement which is dedicating itself to an alternative democracy in opposition to the corruption in Washington.

In the Occupy movement, we are all leaders and followers. The General Assembly is a tribute to what real democracy looks like and there is a revolution going on today in the US that can replace the hardened political process that we see in the Executive Branch, the Senate, Congress, and Supreme Court.

Occupy has already influenced the political process here and will continue to do so. Young people all over the world have had a taste of what genuine activism can bring from Egypt to Wall Street and it will only grow stronger.

It may not take the same form as it has now but will become more potent in future years.
Because this is true, the US is not finished by any means. Our Constitution is still vibrant and flexible.

The truth doesn't lie in party politics or existing government that is controlled by corporations, energy, MIC, or Citizens United rulings.

Resistance is a fact of American democracy today as it was in Poland under Communist dictatorship or Mubarak's domination.

You will also see the growth of trade unionism in the US when workers own their condition.

There will be struggles but growth.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 01:31 PM

I know that something is buggin' you about these, bruice, so spill the beans... BTW, FEMA is part of DHS and Janet Napolitano is Secretary of DHS...

But if you have something, spill it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 12:13 PM

Have any of you called your senators and congressmen/women to ask who controls FEMA/DHS/ICE? If so, what have you been told?

I'm getting the distinct feeling people are afraid to speak with their representatives about it. If so--and I don't blame you--doesn't THAT tell y'all something?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 10:57 AM

Yeah, TIA, you got it about right and I'm sticking with my idea of 1 abortion = 1 castration... This will end this Taliban thinking that way too many Republicans are into...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: John P
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 08:50 AM

And this is an example of where the "both sides are guilty" shit breaks down. This is not a "two sides of the coin" difference.

Hey, guess what, TIA? I agree with all that stuff you just posted.

. . . but in the meantime, you'd like to make yourself feel better by just doing a little re-arranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic...just so you can feel like good little progressive who are out there "doing something". . . . As long as the mighty imperial $ySStem that really runs your country can keep you battling each other in a futile divide over the utterly illusory choice . . .

Hmm, perhaps you don't agree with everything she just posted, LH?

By the way, another annoying thing about your conversational skills is your penchant for deciding and then telling people what's going on in their own heads and why it's making them say the things they say.

I, also, am not upset or losing sleep over you. You are irritating, that's all. And you are preaching a message that supports the people who want to control my life. Until you can get that through your head -- and do something about it -- you will continue to have people responding badly to you in conversations where you basically agree with what they are saying.