BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 03:43 PM

I never had trout as a kid, gnu. Too expensive. If we had steak, it was one large steak for two parents and the five of us kids, sliced thin. Oftentimes on Fridays, my dad would overcook a halibut steak in the broiler in the oven, and we'd split it among the whole family. I grew to hate halibut.

When I was a kid in Wisconsin, the standard church fish fry had perch - but that's when Wisconsin had a commercial fishing industry on Lake Michigan* - little boats that looked like Dutch wooden shoes, like this one (click). The perch was always fresh, and it was a real treat. Oh, and we might switch to smelt, when the smelt were running - they'd be fried up in huge quantities. Here in California, the Knights of Columbus do the cooking at Lenten fish frys, and they usually serve cod, haddock, or whiting - along with fries, cole slaw, and beer.

-Joe-

*They also had commercial fishing on Lake Superior, but I think that was mostly for bigger fish, like whitefish. I've never seen the Wisconsin shore of Lake Superior, so I know nothing first hand about it. Commercial fishing for perch was big on Lake Michigan, Lake Huron, and Lake Erie until about 1970. I guess the Catholics ate up all the perch, which may be why the year-round fish-on-Friday rule was dropped....

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: gnu
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 03:29 PM

Joe... yer a trout, not a steak. >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 03:20 PM

Getting ashes on Ash Wednesday seems to be a very popular custom. Catholics are not required to attend Mass on Ash Wednesday, but parishes I'm familiar with, are always full on Ash Wednesday. I don't know the origins of the custom - just that it's a sign of penitence and conversion.

Most of the churches in our town have an ecumenical service on the Wednesdays of Lent. It starts at our Catholic church on Ash Wednesday, so people of all faiths get ashes - it was the other churches that asked for this, not a suggestion that came from the Catholics. We've usually had the Episcopalian priest preach from the Catholic pulpit on Ash Wednesday - and the preacher has usually been a woman.

I got ashes Wednesday morning and skipped the ecumenical service so I could go to a Chieftains concert in the evening - I wasn't the only person at the concert with ashes on his forehead. It's kind of a nice, one-day symbol of "Catholic identity."

I can't say I get any deep inspiration out of the custom of getting ashes on Ash Wednesday. Still, it's an interesting tradition - and it's kinda fun.

Friday night fish frys are fun, too. Many Catholic parishes still have them, especially during Lent. And hey, you can't have fish and chips without a beer, can you? I can't say that it's much of a sacrifice to abstain from meat on Fridays in Lent, and to "fast" by limiting oneself to three meals on Ash Wednesday. It's more of a mindfulness thing, to keep us mindful of our identity as Catholics.

I'm going to a potluck this evening, so I won't bother abstaining from meat if it's served. I wouldn't dream of asking a priest's permission to eat meat, and I fully expect that I won't go to hell for what I eat tonight. It's still generally a requirement that Catholics abstain from meat on Fridays during Lent, but there is no longer a sanction attached to that requirement.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: mg
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 10:24 AM

our palms were very similar to douglas fir branches in the olden days; you put them behind the holy pictures.

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: GUEST,Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 06:27 AM

"The big question is: did you used to fence with the palm crosses?"

Yes, and we laid up the palm crosses that survived battle in the dining room chandelier and returned them the following year to the church to be burnt to ashes.

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 02:17 AM

The big question is: did you used to fence with the palm crosses?

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 08:13 PM

Wesley:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_News

Do you want me to click it for you, too?

(I've been waiting for a chance to use that line.)

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 07:56 PM

I find Lent a convenient time for reassessment and working on new habits (or resuscitating old ones). Since Bob Nelson and I did a reunion concert some five years ago, I grieve to state that I have been quite "off and on" about practice, and I've really gotten sloppy. In fact, my left-hand callouses are getting soft.

After ablutions and breakfast, I have been starting my mornings by checking my e-mail, then more often than not, going straight to Mudcat. Most days I just don't get around to picking up the guitar.

Lent is supposed to be time of contemplation and repentance. Repentance: def. To feel remorse, contrition, or self-reproach for what one has done or failed to do. To resolve to change one's ways.

So what am I giving up for Lent this year? I am giving up neglecting to practice.

As of Wednesday (Ash Wednesday) morning, I am checking my e-mail as usual (there may be something I need to respond to), then picking up the guitar and the technique books and practicing for at keast an hour, then singing at least five songs—five different songs each day—to keep them fresh in my memory. Then I go to Mudcat.

I find Lent a convenient reminder to do these little re-evaluations. With or without religious overtones.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: Wesley S
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 07:29 PM

I've heard of Ash Wednesday - but what's a Sky News? Another british tabloid?

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 07:17 PM

I was raised Roman Catholic, the faith of my mom, while my dad was Episcopalian. Mom and I always got ashes. I no longer adhere to that faith or any specific faith. I no longer get ashes. Today I was talking to a friend who is a Methodist. She said she sang in the choir at her church's Ash Wednesday service where people could do one of three things: get ashes on their foreheads, get ashes on their hands (palm or back? I wish I'd asked.), or not get ashes at all. This was the first time I had heard of Methodists doing this. (This is in the US. I don't know if Methodists in other parts of the US do this.)

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 05:42 PM

From the Wikipedia article on Geordie dialect words:

CARLING SUNDAY - The second Sunday before Easter and traditionally carlings are served on that day. An urban myth abounds that it started when a famine in Newcastle was relieved when a ship loaded with a cargo of grey peas arrived on that day
CARLINGS - Choice grey-peas, also known in other regions as Black peas or Pigeon Peas.

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 05:23 PM

Here's some explanation of Up'ards and Down'ards

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 02:52 PM

I'm ready to bet that there are some ignorant folk who've never even heard of Carling Sunday either!

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 02:41 PM

I'm shocked that there are people who have never heard of Shrove Tuesday and Ash Wednesday. But of course everyone has heard of Up'ards and Down'ards.

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: foggers
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 02:17 PM

I am with Geoff the Duck on this one; a religious virtue (giving up meat for lent) has been made out of a practical necessity. Other major religions have similar patterns of feast and fast, that all lend weight to this being a human phenomenon rather than a unique feature of christianity.

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: Charmion
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 01:53 PM

I'm a firm believer in the live-and-let-live principle when it comes to religion. You don't snicker at my ashes, and I will refrain from sharing my opinion of rockin' gospel music, speaking in tongues, venerating the bovine species, wearing a bodybag and gloves to do the grocery shopping in July, full-immersion baptism, eating cold food on Saturday, and a host of other practices that scratch your spiritual itch and have no effect on me.

Hypocrites -- those who talk the talk but don't walk the walk -- well, they bug me. I try to refrain from curling my lip too pointedly when I identify one.

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 10:43 AM

Where I grew up the Christians were pretty much all Catholics, either African (croyants/believers) or European (pas croyants/nonbelievers), but it wasn't till I came to the Southern US that I saw people who actually, just like in the Middle Ages, smear ashes on their foreheads on this day. It's still all I can do not to snicker.

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: SINSULL
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 10:32 AM

I still practice "giving up something for Lent". An exercise in willpower not a religious belief.

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: Elmore
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 09:36 AM

I've recovered from all that.Best wishes to anybody for whom it works.

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 09:16 AM

I applaud anyone who has the courage of their convictions and will show their faith in this sort of way. Unfortunately it isn't always done with the best of motives.

A few years ago, when I worked in an office, one of the men went to an Ash Wednesday service at lunchtime and came back with the ashes on his forehead.

Now, this was a guy who rarely moved away from his desk, had no need, or, it seemed, inclination to interact with most of the office the majority of the time. That particular afternoon he made a point of drifting round the office striking up conversation with each of the groupings.

I guess that he really wanted people to ask what the ashes were for - I knew and so ignored it and he moved away to find other victims.

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 08:41 AM

I attended Ash Wednesday service yesterday. It was a peaceful interlude in a busy day. I enjoyed the singing, too.

I didn't get ashes put on me because I think religion should be in your heart, not on your skin.

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 06:51 AM

I was taught about Ash Wednesday following Shrove Tuesday etc. but have never regarded it as important no more than Valentine's Day or Lent which I agree is ridiculous unless it can be used for a time to make resolutions that you didn't make in January such as giving up smoking or changing diet. That would make more sense to make a new beginning with the onset of Spring.

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 06:10 AM

Years ago I gave up religion for lent and never looked back.

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 05:00 AM

Actually - they had more to do with not being able to store foods much beyond this point, and new crops / beasts not ready for eating until spring arives. You don't slaughter a ewe before it has produced it's lambs or you won't have any sheep to eat the following year. The animals you slaughtered before Winter set in (they would otherwise have just starved to death for lack of food) are about to deteriorate with the warmer weather and go rotten (Winter was a natural outdoors fridge/freezer). What is the solution? Easy - have a big feast to eat your stored food before it goes bad, then starve for a month and a half until the new season provides fresh food.
Bog all to do with religion, if you think about it...

Mucky foreheads on the next day, and penitence are a completely different issue.

Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 02:57 AM

I'm all for Pancake Tuesday. Times when I can indulge are part of the fabric of our traditions and rich heritage.

…… but give up things for Lent? No! Restrictions on what I can eat are just silly religious taboos that have no place in our modern society, aren't they?

;-)
DC

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: gnomad
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 01:58 AM

The percentage of people with little or no knowledge of Christianity in the UK continues to increase. One could find this surprising, considering how deeply it has affected the shape of our current society, and the popularity of an amateur interest in our history.

What concerns me more is the number I encounter who profess to be Christians, but who (like Kay Burley in the video) have very little apparent knowledge of the faith they supposedly hold.
I was raised an Anglican, which many people here claim to be (groundlessly IMO, but it's their choice) and although Ash Wednesday is a much less significant mark in the CofE church calendar than it is in the RC community, the mark on JB's forehead was immediately comprehensible. This despite my rejection of belief as an adult.

Unlike Jim, this widespread ignorance is not news to me. Much of our society is truly ignorant on a great range of topics.

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: mg
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 01:38 AM

It's one of my favorite days of the church year. I like getting my ashes. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Feb 12 - 09:00 PM

I'm sure there are plenty of people who are unaware of Shrove Tuesday as well, or even Mardi Gras, and the concept of Lent.

This is all religious stuff, which thankfully keeps losing relevance year by year.

Subject: BS: Never heard of Ash Wednesday?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Feb 12 - 08:32 PM

Today I learned to my great surprise that there seem to be a lot of people who have never heard of Ash Wednesday.

To illustrate this point, someone at another forum posted a link to this video of a Sky News [UK] program from Ash Wednesday of last year.

The presenters are making small talk while they wait for Barack Obama to start speaking. Joe Biden is standing at the lectern and he has an ash smudge on his forehead. The presenters are speculating what it is. The person who uploaded the video seems to think they are making a tasteless joke, but I think they're just plain ignorant.