How can someone OWN Greensleeves

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: JedMarum
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 01:32 PM

Wow - how's this for timing??

As luck would have it, I actually had someone this week STEAL one of new songs and its video from Youtube. They appear to steal quite a few videos, just by copying them and listing their advertising links along with the stolen video notes. I don;t see how it benefit them, really ... but I didn't like the idea so I looked into reporting the video.

First I reported it as SPAM, but that made no impact. I read the "report copy right infringement" procedures from Youtube. That looked pretty serious and time consuming, and perhaps these stealers of my song made an honest mistake ... so I wrote to them. Told them they were infringing upon my copyright and told them (firmly but politely) to remove it immediately or I would be forced to report them for copyright infringement. They did nothing.

So today, I did my homework. Got all of the details, read all of the procedures and filed the complaint.

I'll let y'all know how it goes.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 11:59 PM

I must confess that I am a Celtic immortal Highlander (like in the TV show). I wrote Greensleeves in 1037AD under the Gaelic title "Duilleagan Uaine" which properly translates as Greenleaves. Some Englishman tried to steal my tune and put English words to it but he misnamed it as Greensleeves. As you can understand that although I wrote it nearly a millenium ago, as the still living authour I still hold copyright, and never during that time have I relinquished it to another. I also declare that I have never authourized anyone to re-arrange my work so without my approval no arrangement copyright is valid. However, that being said, I wish to use the Mudcat forum To state that I now place all entitlement to the said work into public domain for the free use of all. My only codicil to this bequest is to forever ban any attempt of another to claim copyright on this work for any reason whatsoever!
Given under my hand and witnessed by Callum Crubach, High Priest of the Druids. (signed) Alasdair MacGillean.
PS: I also authourize
everyone to follow Bruce's sound advice and tell them to FUCK OFF!

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,Tootler
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 05:36 PM

Ditto for me so far.

I did take one video down but that was because I was not satisfied wit my record of the song in question

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: JedMarum
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 04:40 PM

I had exactly the same experience, Tattie. I followed the links as they provided them, made the challenge and they removed the warning.

There are NO ads run with any of my videos. I have not allowed, though I've been invited to. I find them annoying so I don't want them on my videos.

There are quite a lot of videos posted on Youtube that DO use other people's recordings and copyright protected compositions. THAT is what Youtube has to battle and be sure is licensed properly. Because the volume of new material going up every day is so enormous, users like us have to prove our case, sometimes. And the process that Youtube has established to do that (challenge their warning or challenge their prohibitions) seem to work. At least it's worked for me.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 02:48 PM

I got a "matched third party content" warning on one of my videos, challenged it and the warning has been removed. Just follow the links they give you, fill in the form and submit! I pointed out that the composer had been dead for over 250 years and that the "dramatis personae" had made their own arrangement and were quite happy for me to film them.

One other thing that did surprise me was when I changed the soundtrack on one of my videos to one included in "Audioswap" - these being ones that are supposedly OK to use - and immediately got a warning that the audio track was the property of Sony BMG!

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: olddude
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 01:38 PM

No but in most cases they stick ads on them so you can make money for some unknown people without knowing who you are paying and what for

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 01:34 PM

I've had a couple of YouTube videos flagged with their "Matched third party content" statement, but it hasn't resulted in any further action. The videos are still there, I haven't been asked to delete them, and in fact the YouTube instructions say "you don't have to do anything" - so I haven't!

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: olddude
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 12:33 PM

LOL, gotta be all green Spaw Irish ya know :-)

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 12:25 PM

I dunno' Dan......I'm kinda' with Joe on this although I think you could just as well get by without the shirt and just get the Greensleeves.............


Spaw

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: olddude
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 11:36 AM

Amen Mike

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,Mike Mandaville
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 11:06 AM

I think that those of us who post public domain folk songs on You Tube are in a unique position, because since so many of these old tunes will have an arrangement which is protected by a copyright, it seems inevitable that we will be flagged sooner or later, even if we are using our own original arrangements. It seems that the thing to do is to first of all make sure that what we are posting is in the public domain in the first place, and then to challenge each challenge as it comes up.

Evidently You Tube derives one third of its sizeable income from this "content ID" system, and there does not seem to be a whole lot of incentive to make the system more efficient.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 07:04 AM

PS: "Amazing Grace" was published in 1779.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 07:02 AM

I have to have adverts on 5 of my videos because they "may include content that is owned or administered by this entity:
Entity: Music Publishing Rights Collecting Society Content Type: Musical Composition".

1) I have already mentioned the traditional folk song "The Female Drummer Boy".
2) "Amazing Grace" sung by Janet Jones and this is a Christian hymn with lyrics written by the English poet and clergyman John Newton (1725--1807).
3) Janet Jones singing the Dory Previn song "Lemon Haired Ladies".
4) Janet Jones singing the Buffy Sainte-Marie song "Now that the Buffalo has Gone".
5) Janet Jones singing the Buffy Sainte-Marie song "Piney Wood Hills".

I certainly wouldn't withdraw anything either but to have adverts on a traditional folk song and a Christian hymn written before 1807 .................. doesn't seem right. Great thread, Dan.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 01:38 AM

I'm with Bruce...fuck em. I think its a scam to generate ad revenue by attaching their ads to people's videos. It's a mild form of intimidation which, if imposed often enough, may actually succeed in generating capital on Youtube. I wouldn't withdraw anything based on their comments.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 12:49 AM

yea but that's not my issue. If a company is claiming as it did with the one guy that his original content or even my greensleeves violates some copyright, then you should be able to find out who it is saying that, and who is the copyright owner, what proof did they give or just say that did.. You don't have any of that. They put ads to you own work and yes if you contest it probably will take it off ,   but how many do not contest it because they didn't look into it, simply let some company collect unauthorized funds for fraud. YOU can't just say you own something and leave it at that, you better prove it and you don't have anything like that in these cases. To me, it is all fraud

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,Mike Mandaville
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 11:16 PM

In June 2007, YouTube began trials of a system for automatic detection of uploaded videos that infringe copyright. The system was regarded by Google CEO Eric Schmidt as necessary for resolving lawsuits such as the one from Viacom, which alleged that YouTube profited from pirated content.[158] The system, which became known as Content ID, creates a ID File for copyrighted audio and video material, and stores it in a database. When a video is uploaded, it is checked against the database, and flags the video as a copyright violation if a match is found. When this occurs, the content owner has the choice of blocking the video to make it unviewable, tracking the viewing statistics of the video, or adding advertisements to the video.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: JedMarum
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 11:08 PM

Youtube is the hook for copyright infringement of its millions of members, who each have the ability to upload at will ... they use computer driven checks to validate what you are posting and warn you if titles or descriptions alert them to possible copyright violations. Greensleeves probably has hundreds of copyrights registered (probably all for arrangements) so Youtube check flags go off, and they tell YOU to sort out the flag issues, if you disagree.

And by the way, that process the set up to solve the issue does work. They flagged one of my videos (for Poor Wayfaring Stranger). I contested the status through their process and it worked.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 10:59 PM

Just don't let him bring any auto's with him, wheel guns only LOL

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 10:57 PM

Alas myl ove, you'v edon emew rong, to cas tmeo ffdiscourte . . .

SO, NOW sue me.

Rap, you understand. But you always did. Say hello to your missus for me.

B

PS Many years back you mentioned you would share a foxhole with me. I'd share one with you too, any day. (As long as you promise not to tell jokes. Death is one thing; slow death . . . .)

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 10:37 PM

And, Bruce, it gets more interesting in your case 'cause you ain't in the US. So if Bruce and Dan conspire together on a musical composition, obviously both the FBI and the RCMP should be involved. No web site, no known point of contact -- sounds like a scam to me.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 10:37 PM

The SEC lost over 300 files in the Building 7 'collapse'. I'd trust them for sure.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 10:34 PM

Well, if they're taking money the SEC would be interested, for one. So would the FBI, because of possible fraud issues. So might Interpol for the same reason. You can start a "Old Dude's Knitting Society" and charge dues, etc., but if you want to get grants or sell stuff for a profit the governments become very interested. For example, this "ODKS" should register with the state in which it is headquartered to prove legitimacy to any possible joiner. If ODKS wants to get grants or donation it MUST be registered. ANY business, society or not, which actually DOES business must be registered with both the appropriate State AND the IRS.

If ODKS is a purely local group that meets down in the church basement over tea and crumpets and discusses the intricacies Fair Isle knitting, fine. It can even charge dues and donate money to appropriate causes. But if it starts working as a non-profit or for-profit entity, bingo -- the government gets involved.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 10:31 PM

Dan, work with me on this. Tell them I am a co-responsibler/conspirator. I'LL tell them to get fucked. I'm serious.

It's like this: ya wanna sue me? Go ahead. Sue me. Then, sue me again to collect. Then sue me to get your money. Than sue me for back payments. Then sue me for . . .

Sue don't mean shit. Sue means you want. Sue twice means you ain't got squat!

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,Mike Mandaville
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 10:29 PM

Jeri, if you believe what you read, it's YouTube's name for them. But please don't believe everything that you read.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: olddude
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 10:20 PM

But if they are claiming your original work as their own as they did to that guy, or public domain traditional music.. then who do you go after. Report it to youtube the publisher, fine but who is the publisher to go after them for fraud. See the problem here, they have to inform you they own it and why .. but they don't youtube just sticks ads on your page with no recourse claiming some phantom company owns greensleves or something you wrote personally.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 10:19 PM

A "Society" has to be registered? What law would make that necessary.

Listen, guys, I don't have a religious-like 'belief' in what I'm saying. I'm saying it because it seems logical and right. If information comes along that proves I'm not right, I'll be OK with it.

What YouTube calls the guys who contact them to gripe about copyrights doesn't matter. Whether they're registered doesn't matter. Do you owe them royalties and is the work someone else's? No, and no: THAT'S what matters. Winning a dispute should be easy.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 10:09 PM

If it's YouTube's name or a separate company, it's gotta be registered somewhere. Otherwise anyone else could claim the name "Music Publishing Rights Collecting Society". Moreover, it's a bad name -- should be "Collection Society." Sure would like to know what state/province/country this outfit works from....

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 09:55 PM

1) Politely say what you have to say.
2) Politely say, "Fuck you!"

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 09:36 PM

Mike, it's pretty easy to put up a fake Facebook page, and if you investigated it, you'd see it was bogus. But people believe what they want to believe.

Dan, I'm not sure what is horseshit, since the page YOU linked to says:

UPDATE 12/23/10:
I have been having a back and forth discussion with an acquaintance of mine and this person has shed a little more light on the situation. To quote her:

"It's YouTube's umbrella term for a number of orgs designed to protect the rights of copyright holders...in the US three organisations, ASCAP, BMI and SESAC, in Germany, GEMA, etc..."

It's YouTube's name for them.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,Mike Mandaville
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 09:31 PM

Jeri, being "pretty sure" only counts with horse shoes and hand grenades. I'm "pretty sure" that if the Music Publishing Rights Collecting Society was legitimate, that Face Book Page would not exist in the first place. If somebody misrepresented me, they would be sued pronto, and that is one thing that you can be surew of.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 09:18 PM

For sure, post an audio, they fill out youtube's little form and without any recourse you are lining their pockets unjustly

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 09:18 PM

Mike, do you really think the organization would post such an idiotically incriminating page? I'm pretty sure it's a fake.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 09:17 PM

Q. How can someone OWN Greensleeves?
A. Buy a green shirt - the sleeves come with it.
Ba-da-BUM!


I didn't follow your link, either, Jeri, but I ended up at the same place, a Google Forum thread closed in December, 2010. If I read the thread correctly, the "Music Publishing Rights Collecting Society" places claims on videos placed on YouTube, but the person who posted the video has the right to dispute the claim. If there is no dispute, I gather that Google puts ads on the video and pays the income from the ads to the claimant.

Dan, did YouTube give you clear instructions on how to dispute the claim?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 09:15 PM

Yep, they end up saying virtually the same thing I just quoted.

Shotgun approach to enforcing copyright.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 09:15 PM

That is horseshit Jeri, if you step on a copyright holders material you are informed by the company that has the publishing rights. IE with these folks you have no idea who that is or what they are talking about. If you ask, they back down .. guy had it happen after posting a siren blasting on his video .. same organization. Now if I got a note say BMI then I would contact BMI and take issue. These people you cannot contact anyway shape or form. Claiming rights to muscians own works also ... again no idea who the organization is or how to dispute it ..

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,Mike Mandaville
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 09:10 PM

Jeri, here is the "mission statement" from Music Publishing Rights Collecting Society's very ow Face Book Page. It paints a considerably different picture:

"Our mission is to file copyright claims so that ads will be placed onto certain videos, and we will be able to make money off of them. We do not seek to have anyone's videos blocked in certain countries or disabled altogether, all we are trying to do is make a bit of money. That's not so bad, is it?"

They do not even attempt to disguise the fact that they are scam artists.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 09:04 PM

read this

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 08:53 PM

From the website to which I linked, since it seems people didn't read it:

This mysterious "Music Publishing Rights Collecting Society" isn't one organisation: it's a generic term for all collecting societies, which collect and distribute money on behalf of artists -- organisations like ACAP and BMI in the US, PRS for Music in the UK, GEMA in Germany and so on

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 08:40 PM

It gets really interesting if you google that company. They go around claiming other musicians work. One guy posted they laid claim to his original songs and he pulled up his registered copyright from BMI and youtube backed down. However, there is no way to contact them like some phantom corp. I guess they are doing this to a lot of folks and then getting adsense revenue and who the hell knows what else ... someone better take them to the woodshed cause it ain't just me, it looks like it is a hell of a lot of people

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 08:37 PM

Dan, I got exactly that same message on the video of "The Female Drummer Boy" sung by Jon Rennard and that is a traditional folk song. It surprised me too but I ignored it and there is always an advert next to that video as a result. Presumably Music Publishing Rights Collecting Society gets some money from the advert - I certainly don't :)

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 08:26 PM

Here's Flanders and Swann's Greensleeves routine on YouTube:

CLICKY

Don Firth

P. S. I had never had anyone try to tell me that Hank 8 wrote Greensleeves until after F & S's "At the Drop of a Hat" record came out.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,Mike Mandaville
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 07:59 PM

We all need to investigate "Entity: Music Publishing Rights Collecting Society". Legitimate organizations such as ASCAP, SESAC, and BMI do not brag about making money from other people's music.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 07:36 PM

Don, thank you for the history of the song. I'd read somewhere that H the VIII had something to do with it. Oops!

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Greg B
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 07:34 PM

There needs to be a tangible penalty for false claims of copyright on public domain property.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 07:33 PM

Tootler and Don
I sent them a note complaining and I as of yet don't see any ads so maybe they backed down on it. I agree I bet there is a crawler out there. It seems I have been getting under the microscope after that silly song took all the hits .. always someone trying to make a buck I guess .. nuts 19 different copyright claims .. my goodness insane

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 07:16 PM

In the very early 1960s, as the Great Folk Epidemic was well under way, there came a great flood of paperback songbooks containing traditional folk songs and ballads onto the market. And most of these books had a copyright notice following each song. Songs such as Barbara Allen, Lord Randall, The E-ri-e Canal, Turtledove, John Henry, The Cowboy's Lament, Froggy Went a-Courtin', and yes, Greensleeves.

In fact, I heard that at one time during the Folk Spasm of the Sixties, some nineteen different people and music publishing companies all claimed copyright on Greensleeves.

The most definitive information regarding the origin of Greensleeves is as follows:

Greensleeves was first believed to have been published in September 1580 when a printer named Richard Jones had licensed to him the lyrics and music of a song called "A new Northern Dittye of the Lady Greene Sleeves". Another printer called Edward White also had a license to publish Greensleeves under the name of "A ballad, being the Ladie Greene Sleeves Answere to Donkyn his frende". The two printers argued for the rights of Greensleeves and various versions were published. Eventually in 1584 Richard Jones printed his final version of the words, lyrics and music to Greensleeves which appeared in a collection of songs called "A Handful of Pleasant Delights", which is the version we know today.

There is also the legend that Greensleeves was supposed to have been written by Henry VIII while courting the recalcitrant Anne Boleyn, but this story seems to have had it's origins in a comedy routine by Flanders and Swann, ending with the line, "And that is why royalties go to Royalty." Funny schtick, but no actual historical basis that I am aware of beyond Flanders and Swann.

Nineteen different copyright claims on Greensleeves. Boy, would I like to see this sucker taken to court!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Tootler
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 07:14 PM

I just watched your video, Dan (very nice, btw), and no ads appeared so they may just have been trying it on.

I have had similar experiences with traditional songs and I challenge them as a matter of principle through the You Tube system. You don't get any reply to the challenge, which is par for the course but at least I have made my views known. If nothing happens after that I am not really worried, but I would rather ads didn't appear on the "offending" videos.

I suspect that some of these organisations use web crawlers and look for keywords and claim as a matter of course whenever one is found.

There seems to be some inconsistency as I have posted my recordings of two tunes by Tom Anderson and I have had a copyright notification against one but not the other.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 04:26 PM

It may be the arrangement, and although it may be original, someone else may have come up with it before you. Another thing is that it's not the song, only the tune, and tunes from traditional songs have been used in new compositions quite often. Some could have used the tune for their song, copyrighted it and now this.

Check this out on Google Answers

If there are royalties due, you aren't the one who has to pay them, but I'd look at Desert Dancer's link.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 03:25 PM

Here is the deal as I see it. I had one song, just one get a bunch of plays, all free, all downloads free.. Now they much think all the songs are going to do that and they want to make money off them. I got news for them, the song only got plays cause it is about a famous moonshiner not because of me ... go figured huh

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 03:15 PM

you heard this before, I was just messing with my classical guitar
someone owns this arrangement, I don't think so
here

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 03:03 PM

that arrangement is 100% mine, I added a whole new intro and some additional things into it for fun why I called it "after greensleeves" There is no one else doing this version or they infringed on my copyright.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Artful Codger
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 02:54 PM

Just playing devil's advocate here, so don't shoot the messenger...

The difficulty would be in proving there was no infringement on the arrangement, especially if they haven't notified you which particular "work" you're supposedly infringing. The fact that you made a recording of yourself is insufficient to prove you were ripping off someone else's distinctively original arrangement. If they could narrow it for you, you could probably prove (with a bit of research) that any commonalities were ones not original to the supposedly infringed arrangement--if indeed there was any real originality in their arrangement at all.

Of course, first you have to know which work you're reputedly infringing, and in what way--conveniently, they don't bother to tell you, though they must know in order to make an assertion of possible infringement.

The best response would be to abandon YouTube for a service with less overreaching policies, making it the new YouTube and giving Google the thumb, or middle finger, or whatever snubbing digit you choose.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 02:50 PM

Its on youtube but they told me they will put ads on it for revenue to the copyright holder ... WTF ... come on. give money to someone that has no right to do this .. nonsense

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 02:47 PM

This is a well-known tryon. Ignore it.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 02:41 PM

YouTube instructions for filing a "counter-notification" of copyright status.

Ick.

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 02:36 PM

Presumably a YouTube post, rather than Mudcat?

Obviously, any copyright claim on Greensleeves, other than for a specific arrangement, is absurd. I imagine that in general YouTube's methods of copyright dispute management are more likely to side with the one wanting a video pulled than the one who wants to post. However, this seems like one case where an e-mail or two should be sufficient, like for instance providing a link to the Wikipedia entry on Greensleeves! (At least I'd hope it would be that easy!)

Have you pursued any communications with the powers-that-be at YouTube, beyond attempting to re-posting your video and altering the images?

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,Mike Mandaville
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 02:14 PM

Old Dude, I don't know what you mean by "tried to post". If what you mean is that you have allowed someone else's statement about what "might" be the case to prevent you from posting, then I can only suggest to you that perhaps you should act on what you do know, rather than upon what someone else does not know. If, on the other hand, you mean something else, then please be specific.

I personally am glad that you started another discussion, because I agree that standing up for our rights is important.

Nobody owns Greensleaves. This is not a debateable issue. That's the way it is.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 12:58 PM

Dan, if you haven't used someone's arrangement, first tell them politely that it's a traditional number dating way the hell back to Henry the VIII in England. If they push it, tell them to get fucked in that many words.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 12:57 PM

What happens if you simply ignore this obvious bullying?

Or call it Green Sleaves?

Though I like Green Slieves myself - Slieve is Gaelic for mountain, or something similar, like a hill or pass over a mountain.

Or Alas, my love you do me wrong - (first line of a 17th C set of words)

There are penalties for violating a copyright, but there are no penalties for claiming a copyright one is not entitled to. Too bad about that.

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 12:48 PM

You can copyright something that isn't yours. It's the court that will determine if you really own the copyright.

If the case gets to court, you walk in and prove the song existed prior to the copyright. If it were me, I' just walk in with a few older song books and recordings and not bother with a lawyer.

My guess is, if you push the people challenging you, they will back down. It's not worth it to pursue a fight they can't win and will ultimately (and publicly) make them look ignorant.

If those big companies can get you to back down, isn't a little bit like your agreeing they own it? Don't back down!

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 12:25 PM

Your video, After Greensleeves , may include ....

It does say "may include". Just reply saying that it doesn't and leave it at that.

DC

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 12:16 PM

You can't copywrite a traditional song, only an arrangement.

Dave H

Subject: RE: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 11:24 AM

First I though well maybe it is the photo I had, so I replaced it with a photo of ME .. nope someone owns the song rights .. This is getting nuts. How about if we copyright the word "the" then go after everyone that uses it. I wish someone with money would stop this crap

Subject: How can someone OWN Greensleeves
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 11:20 AM

three times I tried to post my variation of Greensleeves How far does this go. yes I should have added it to the other thread but I think this stuff is important and should be discussed.

Your video, After Greensleeves , may include content that is owned or administered by this entity:

    Entity: Music Publishing Rights Collecting Society Content Type: Musical Composition

the song goes back hundreds of years ... in the public domain $#@%$#