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Royal Assent - PEL in small venues

Vic Smith 06 Mar 12 - 01:25 PM
SylviaN 06 Mar 12 - 02:08 PM
GUEST,The Shambles 06 Mar 12 - 02:15 PM
Bainbo 06 Mar 12 - 04:54 PM
foggers 06 Mar 12 - 06:51 PM
GUEST 06 Mar 12 - 07:17 PM
Nick 06 Mar 12 - 07:18 PM
Nick 06 Mar 12 - 07:27 PM
GUEST,The Shambles 07 Mar 12 - 03:54 AM
GUEST,henryp 07 Mar 12 - 07:04 AM
GUEST,The Shambles 07 Mar 12 - 11:43 AM
GUEST,The Shambles 07 Mar 12 - 11:44 AM
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Subject: Royal Assent - PEL in small venues
From: Vic Smith
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 01:25 PM

From Jacey Bedford

Great news: Royal Assent in Parliament for The Live Music Act, Thursday 8th March. Gigs under 200 persons in future will be exempt from a PEL*! So no more worrying whether a pub has a public entertainment license before finding a venue for your folk club.

PEL = Public Entertainment Licence


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Subject: RE: Royal Assent - PEL in small venues
From: SylviaN
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 02:08 PM

About time we had some really good news. Onward and upward :)


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Subject: RE: Royal Assent - PEL in small venues
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 02:15 PM

http://www.musicweek.com/story.asp?sectioncode=1&storycode=1048749

The Live Music Bill is on course to receive Royal Assent on Thursday, but won't be implemented into law until October.


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Subject: RE: Royal Assent - PEL in small venues
From: Bainbo
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 04:54 PM

So, does that mean Sam Smith pubs can start hosting folk clubs again? Or was that something different? (I never really understood it.)

And if it does mean that, would anybody go, or have we got used to managing without them?


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Subject: RE: Royal Assent - PEL in small venues
From: foggers
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 06:51 PM

Huzzah for sensible legislation!


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Subject: RE: Royal Assent - PEL in small venues
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 07:17 PM

PEL was not the issue with Sam Smiths - when licensing was changed it would have been very easy for the pubs to have applied for PEL at the time but they decided not to; it was PRS that was used as the reason.

It might have more to do with Humphrey's view that a pub should be like George Orwell's ideal pub described in his essay The Moon Under Water.

As he applies all decisions across all the pubs then it is very unlikely. I met him a while back in our local pub and took the chance to speak to him about it as he replied to two letters I wrote him and spoke to me on the phone after I phoned him at his home at the time. I think it unlikely that this would change much as the liability for PRS would still be there and everything suggests that the cash isn't there to do it nor the will.


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Subject: RE: Royal Assent - PEL in small venues
From: Nick
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 07:18 PM

Whoops that was me


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Subject: RE: Royal Assent - PEL in small venues
From: Nick
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 07:27 PM

Orwell stipulated ten key points that his perfect London pub should have (his criteria for country pubs being different, but unspecified):

1 The architecture and fittings must be uncompromisingly Victorian.
2 Games, such as darts, are only played in the public part of the bar.
3 The pub is quiet enough to talk, with the house possessing neither a radio nor a piano.
4 The barmaids know the customers by name and take an interest in everyone.
5 It sells tobacco and cigarettes, aspirins and stamps, and lets you use the phone.
6 There is a snack counter where you can get liver-sausage sandwiches, mussels (a speciality of the house), cheese, pickles and large biscuits with caraway seeds.
7 Upstairs, six days a week, you can get a good, solid lunch -- for example, a cut off the joint, two vegetables and boiled jam roll—for about three shillings.
8 A creamy sort of draught stout and it goes better in a pewter pot.
9 They are particular about their drinking vessels at "The Moon Under Water" and never, for example, make the mistake of serving a pint of beer in a handleless glass. Apart from glass and pewter mugs, they have some of those pleasant strawberry-pink china ones.
10 You go through a narrow passage leading out of the saloon, and find yourself in a fairly large garden.
Orwell admitted that "to be fair", he did know of a few pubs that almost came up to his ideal, including one that had eight of the mentioned qualities.

Our local Sams pub that we used to play in manages to score 4 and it's one of the best ones and also one of his favourites.


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Subject: RE: Royal Assent - PEL in small venues
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 03:54 AM

The main plus for the LMB - is that it has removed the licensing requirement for Entertainment Facilities. So no longer is the supply of the piano itself licensable.

George Orwell may not approve. I wonder how he would view Karaoke?

The only real problem is that the requirement for additional entertainment licensing permission will automatically kick-in at 11pm - and now in venues which very often open and can serve alcohol until much later.

We can always console ourselves at 11pm by playing darts/pool - as these will not require additional entertainment licensing permission, either before or after 11pm.


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Subject: RE: Royal Assent - PEL in small venues
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 07:04 AM

Very good news, although it has taken a ridiculous route - and wasted a lot of parliamentary time - to arrive at this point. Congratulations to everybody who has campaigned on behalf of folk clubs. I shall certainly be out celebrating tonight!

11 o'clock is late enough for most folk clubs, especially in mid-week. I've often seen people slipping away in the second half - regardless of the guest! However, some clubs don't get going until 9 o'clock. Perhaps they could start a little earlier to meet the curfew of 11.


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Subject: RE: Royal Assent - PEL in small venues
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 11:43 AM

Perhaps they could start a little earlier to meet the curfew of 11

The answer is to ensure that all such activities can be described as a performance of Morris dancing and thus exempt at any time.


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Subject: RE: Royal Assent - PEL in small venues
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 11:44 AM

The following from Hamish Birchall

The Live Music Bill will become the Live Music Act tomorrow morning when
it receives Royal Assent in the House of Lords:
http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2010-12/livemusichl.html

However, the legislation is unlikely to come into force until October.

On 27th January, when the Bill completed its Parliamentary stages, the
possibility of early implementation in time for the Queen's Diamond
Jubilee celebrations and the Olympics was raised by Lord Colwyn and Lord
Clement-Jones, co-sponsor of the Bill with Don Foster MP.

But the statutory licensing guidance that accompanies the Licensing Act
('Guidance issued under s182 of the Licensing Act 2003') must first be
substantially revised, with input from key stakeholders, including the
police and Local Government Association (LGA). This is essential if the
legislation is not to be misunderstood and misapplied by all sides, as
has so often happened in the past.

Some in the music press seem to think that the Bill marks the
culmination of a few years lobbying by musicians and the music
industry. In fact, it has taken more than 30 years of lobbying and
campaigning by musicians, backed by a coalition of the music industry,
arts organisations and performers' unions, to arrive at this historic
moment for the regulation of live music in England and Wales.

Since at least the mid-1980s, musicians have been making representations
to central government to relax entertainment licensing because it was
hindering or actually preventing small gigs. Hopes were raised when New
Labour announced an overhaul of licensing in 1998, but dashed when it
became clear in 2002 that controls were actually to be increased, with
the scrapping of the exemption for one or two musicians in bars, and the
introduction of licensing for 'entertainment facilities'.

When implemented, the Live Music Act will do away with the entertainment
facilities licensing requirement. The unlicensed provision of pianos,
or other instruments, for use in live performance will no longer be a
potential criminal offence.

Performances of live music between 8am and 11pm will be exempt in pubs,
bars, restaurants, schools, hospitals, and indeed all premises falling
within the definition of a 'workplace' for the purposes of health and
safety legislation.

For amplified music, audiences are limited to 200. There is no audience
limit for unamplified live music. In premises already licensed for
alcohol, existing conditions relating to the provision of live music
will not be enforceable for performances between 8am and 11pm. But if
there are noise problems, and complaints, a licence review could result
in enforceable conditions.

The Bill also amends the Licensing Act to allow amplified live music to
accompany performances of morris dancing or dancing of a similar nature.

Ironically, while deregulation for live music is going ahead in England
and Wales, in Scotland entertainment licensing is being increased, much
to the annoyance of those at the receiving end: http://bit.ly/A1ekNr

This is an untenable position for the Scottish government. The
rationale for entertainment licensing there is the same: to control
public safety and noise. But the legislation that regulates public
safety and noise applies across the UK. It is absurd to have within one
jurisdiction essentially the same gig legal in one part, but illegal
in another, unless licensed.

ENDS


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