Getting permission to record songs

Subject: Getting permission to record other people's songs
From: GUEST,DeanofRochester
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 12:40 PM

A bit of 'shutting the gate after the horse has bolted' but ....

How do people usually get permission to record other people's songs?

I was told that, since it is very unlikely that we shall sell more than 50 CDs (if we're lucky) anyway, and that there is no way we will recover our recording expenses, then there is no need to get permission. I'm becoming a bit dubious about this, and the last thing I want is to upset any of the artists whom I admire so much and whose songs we have recorded (not to mention being sued!).

And while on this subject should we get permission to perform other people's songs at the the folk clubs, pubs and festivals that John and I sing at, for which we often receive a (small) performers fee?

We're in the UK - most of the information I've tried to find on the interweb seems to relate to the USA. Help anyone?

Subject: RE: Getting permission to record songs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 12:42 PM

It's polite to ask. However, as far as I'm aware, you don't have to ask. However you must credit it correctly on the sleeve.
That's how I understand it.

Subject: RE: Getting permission to record songs
From: GUEST,DeanofRochester
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 12:56 PM

Thanks John

We've credited the songwriters' names on our cd sleeve notes. Do we need to acknowledge their record label as well?

Subject: RE: Getting permission to record songs
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 01:09 PM

DoR: Best to ask the songwriters. However, payment is not based on how many you sell; it is based on how many you have had printed. If the song has been released to the general public before, there is no need to ask anyone's permission. The matter of payment is another thing.

Example: a fellow I know in the US wrote and asked if he could do a song I'd written that I'd released. He also asked how much he'd owe me. I wrote back and said, "I hold the copyright, and so go ahead and record it although you don't need my permission."

As for payment (and because he was printing 1000 copies), I asked if he was well off for cash. He told me no. I said that then you'll owe me a copy of the CD and if you sell thousands of them to send me some money. The usual payment to the songwriter is about $.10 a copy. (That is, ten cents a copy.)

On small-run stuff, it's seldom a big deal. BUT, publishers may and often do see it differently.

Subject: RE: Getting permission to record songs
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 01:09 PM

I suspect you are up against not the songwriters but various organizations who have lawyers. I would presume the worst..I have been trying to figure out Ireland laws..too hard for me..but I think you are supposed to have royalties held in reserve if you can't find the songwriter...

I am interested too..I had hoped to avoid dealing iwth famous people especially but they sometimes write the best songs...

But I think in US at least you only pay for how many you run off..not sure of course..so if you ran off 100 and had 10 people whoneeded royalties at about 10 cents per cd run..that would be $100 up front..how I figure it anyway..and I am very curious what the rate is in Ireland...and I am still trying to contact Johnny McEvoy..tried a couple of channels but no ansewr yet..mg

Subject: RE: Getting permission to record songs
From: GUEST,DeanofRochester
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 01:15 PM

Thanks for the comments so far. Someone else has suggested that we should join the PRS and MCPS, as they handle payment of royalties to artists?

Subject: RE: Getting permission to record songs
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 02:45 PM

You don't join PRS and MCPS, that's for the composers and the organisations then collect royalties on their behalf.

If you're recording someone else's music, you must inform MCPS and they calculate the fee, based on what proportion of the album is copyright material, the selling price and how many units you'll be manufacturing. There's a flat-rate fee if you're making less than 1000, but for small numbers or where most of the material isn't copyright then you may be better off calculating the fee. Full details are on their website.

Retail Audio Products: AP1 and AP2 Licences

The system isn't really geared up for small-scale, private recordings probably issued on CD-R, but the legal position is the same and you should follow it. Even if all the material is non-copyright you should still get clearance from MCPS first who will confirm that no royalties are payable.

For live performances, PRS will charge a fee to the venue - as a performer you don't have to worry about it. You may be asked to complete a return with details of your set, but this usually applies only to the larger venues.

If the composer isn't a member of PRS/MCPS then strictly speaking you're supposed to seek them out and agree a fee privately. If they're a mate then that may be practical. Otherwise, in the folk world at least it's possibly safe to assume that if someone hasn't joined then they're not concerned about protecting their copyright. However that's no defence if their lawyers come after you!