Creating harmonies in sea shanties

Subject: RE: Creating harmonies in sea shanties
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 08:54 PM

Some of my opinions:
Sailors may or may not have sung harmonies, but being on pitch wasn't a necessity either. One reason why you shouldn't try to be too authentic.
Nobody likely would have paid to hear a bunch of sailors sing shanties, and the sailors probably wouldn't feel the need to sing them without purpose.
Work out harmonies, but please don't be too precious. Don't be the Four Tenors singing work songs.
I'd say work things out and plan, but leave room for improvisation and a bit of craziness.
As for figuring out the harmonies, listen to lots of harmonies. It's a language that you can learn, if you don't already know it.

Subject: RE: Creating harmonies in sea shanties
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 08:06 PM

What thread?

Nice to hear that a new group is forming. Where are you folks based?

My group Roll & Go once got some frank advice from an experienced shantysinger. We had been together for about five years and some of us were sometimes doing harmony but most were just singing along with great gusto. Our friend said we needed to decide what kind of singing we wanted to be known for, and that in our current "product" our harmonies stood out like so many polished fids amidst a sore thumb or two. There are five of us now and frequently three of us will work out harmonies and the fourth will double the lead on melody, either below or above.

It does take a lot of practice or experience to do this without ragged refrains or choruses, or sheets flying in the wind...

Good luck, and don't forget to have fun!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Creating harmonies in sea shanties
From: sciencegeek
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 03:38 PM

If you are located in the northeastern USA, come visit Mystic Seaport this June to get a wide perspective...

otherwise listen to CDs and you tube to get a feel for phrasing. It's more important IMO to be true to the type of shanty or foc's'le song you are singing than worrying about harmonies. Once you understand the job that goes with a type of shanty, then you can get fancy.

I agree that the makeup of the crew had a strong influence on the singing and any harmonies used.

Waiting for Charly Noble to find this thread & add his thoughts.

Subject: RE: Creating harmonies in sea shanties
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 01:11 PM

I think "Just go for it" is best.

Subject: RE: Creating harmonies in sea shanties
From: Marje
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 12:24 PM

I also think the African/Carribean influence on shanties would likely have entailed harmonies, as harmony singing is very much part of African music.

Marje

Subject: RE: Creating harmonies in sea shanties
From: Nancy King
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 11:18 AM

Back when The Boarding Party was performing, occasionally someone would criticize them for their harmonies, because, they said, harmony was not traditional in shanty singing. But it was pointed out by Eric Ilott -- who of course had been a working shantyman in his younger days -- that most of the sailors had been raised singing hymns in church, and harmonies came naturally to many of them, so of course that's the way they sang shanties, too.

It probably wouldn't do to work too hard at it, though -- you don't want it to sound too "uptown"!

Subject: RE: Creating harmonies in sea shanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 10:50 AM

Presumably you have practices with just yourselves where you can experiment and it doesn't matter if you make mistakes. With any given shanty agree on 2 of you who are going to experiment while the other 2 stick with the tune. One goes high and the other goes low. It'll come. Don't be afraid to be ambitious.

I'm part of a new 4-part shanty group as well, The Spare Hands, but we've all been singing shanties and harmonies for 40 years so it comes naturally, and we're all musicians which helps.

The Alabama is a cracker.

Subject: RE: Creating harmonies in sea shanties
From: doc.tom
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 09:01 AM

Johnny Collins always claimed that the way to find a harmony was to wobble off the tune until you found another note that sounded 'right' - what you then did was put all the right-sounding notes in sequence and hey presto, harmony! and Johnny was one of the most respected shanty-singers around!

Subject: RE: Creating harmonies in sea shanties
From: Brian Peters
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 07:25 AM

Bass lines are a good place to start, especially on simpler shanties where the bass line can have as few as two notes. Take 'South Australia', and let's say you're singing it in the key of D.

The first refrain 'Heave away, haul away' is on the notes BAA, BAA. If the bassist sings DDD, DDD, that sounds fine.

The second refrain, 'Bound for South Australia' is on the notes F#GAF#ED, and the bassist just needs to sing DDDDAD (the A being the lower alternative).

That kind of thing can become instinctive pretty easily. Obviously there are way more complicated things you could do, but that's at least a beginning.

Subject: RE: Creating harmonies in sea shanties
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 07:16 AM

You can work with the basic music theory (so make sure everyone hits the notes in a major/minor triad), or you can just spend your time making it up on the spot. I prefer that way myself.

Best thing is to find a massive shanty session and just try things out. You'll work out what you're meant to do eventually (especially with shanties).

Subject: RE: Creating harmonies in sea shanties
From: Crane Driver
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 07:11 AM

Hi guys - welcome to the cat box. Where are you based?

Someone is bound to tell you, sooner or later, that harmonising shanties is "not traditional". Well, "traditional" shanty singers mostly also had scurvy and the clap - you can take "traditional" too far. On board ship, when shanties were used to co-ordinate work, there obviously weren't any formal, "worked out" harmonies, but people's voice ranges differ and there would have been plenty of natural harmonies (and less pleasant noises) as everyone tried to sing together. Most shanty crews here in the UK seem to work mainly on that basis (hopefully without the less-pleasant noises, most of the time). I remember one bass singer with a well-known crew being asked at a workshop to "sing one of his bass lines" and replying that he couldn't, without someone else singing the melody. He just heard the harmonies when others were hearing the tune.

At the end of the day, it's a matter of what works for you and what sort of sound you want to produce. Have fun. If it sounds good, you're doing it right.

Andrew
Crane Drivin' Music

Subject: RE: Creating harmonies in sea shanties
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 06:57 AM

Sailors didn't arrange harmonies when they were pumping heaving or hauling, just let them come naturally, they will if they are there.

Or did you really mean, ' amrmonies ' ?

Dave H

Subject: Creating harmonies in sea shanties
From: The Longshoremen
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 06:42 AM

Hi all, we've just joined the forum. There are 4 of us and we have just formed a group singing sea shanties. The next step in our adventure is to try putting some amrmonies in. We can obviously listen to cd's and try to pick them up that way but we wondered if anyone has any tips or knows of any way to get harmony parts - or do you all just make it up as you go along!