Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'

Subject: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,Folknacious
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 09:15 AM

The little Guide supplement in today's Guardian (a left-liberal intelligentsia UK newspaper, for US readers) has a 2-page piece about "Shuffle Folk" and "Weirdlore". Some of it sounds interesting, but do they make this stuff up? Has anybody else heard of "Sproatly Smith"? I did check the date and it's still March!

Here it is online

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 10:12 AM

Erm, yes....

Sproatly Smith

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 10:45 AM

Yes, I've heard of Sproatly Smith. I began noticing the burgeoning brood of Wickermannish wyrd / psych-folk bands - of which Sproatly was one - a couple of years ago. It's all very quaint and endearing but as Suibhne notes elsewhere, maybe the ubiquity of animal heads is getting a tad tired now. Still, looks like him & Rapunzel are going to be playing at the Bristol Weirdlore fest and I'm sure a fine time will be had by all.

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 11:35 AM

Twee rehashes of the Incredible String Band, who never had anything more than tweeness going for them in the first place?

Sounds like exactly the sort of thing a Guardian culture journalist would go for.

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 11:44 AM

Mmm.. as it happens I've just been listening to the Incredible String Band's "Nightfall" from "The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter" album. Nothing twee about that to me whatsoever - all personal taste, as ever...

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 11:58 AM

PS: I think Folknacious may have misunderstood the article's headline. No such thing as 'shuffle folk' (so far as I know!) rather it's "Tim Jonze on Shuffle" presumably a reference to the journo shuffling through genres, as one does on iTunes etc.

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 12:13 PM

I'd never heard of Shuffle Folk, and that's probably because there's no such thing: Tim Jonze writes a monthly column for The Guardian Guide, called 'On Shuffle' (it's a reference to a facility on the iPod to play your music collection in a random order m'lud), and this month it's on the topic of folk.

So it's not Tim Jonze on 'Shuffle Folk', it's Tim Jonze On Shuffle: [this month's topic is] Folk.

Phew, that's that sorted.

Weirdlore, meanwhile, is not my cup of patchouli-flavoured herbal infusion at all, but I don't feel particularly threatened or exercised by it so good luck to them. They're not stopping me playing traditional English dance music, I'm not stopping them playing latter period Syd Barrett, live and let live.

The Tim Jonze piece is actually a reasonable article on the whole. The only thing that vaguely surprised me was that (apparently) a new wave of acts are emerging that are influenced by the likes of Mumford & Sons and Laura Marling; which makes me wonder just how fast the sausage machine is churning these days!

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 12:14 PM

'Guest,CS' - jinx!

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 12:24 PM

Something kept niggling me about Sproatly - and I just sussed what is is. Every time I see Sproatly I 'hear' Scrotely. Anyone else remember Roland Rivron's Dr. Scrote?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8KSw2dpF9w

Glad that's cleared up!

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: glueman
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 01:00 PM

Sproatly would go down well on a warm spring day with large quantities of very strong cider and good company talking rubbish.

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 01:56 PM

For the record: Sproatly Smith at Folk Police Recordings. Great band!

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,Folknacious
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 02:17 PM

Sorry about my Shuffle Folk confusion, but I wasn't aware Mr Jones had a regular column.

Now I discover I own a Sproatly Smith track as of today, there's one on the download CD with the new Froots. Pretty good actually, new words to the Rosemary Lane tune. Telling The Bees written about in the article seem quite acceptable too, and I heard some of the Gerry Diver project on the radio recently too, so perhaps the Guardian do have something here.

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 04:23 AM

Has anybody else heard of "Sproatly Smith"? I did check the date and it's still March!

Ah! The open minds of Mudcat, where Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells is alive and well. The Sproats (as their legion of fans refer to them) have been around for years, even since the glory days of Myspace & Woven Wheat Whispers, & producing some cracking albums for such labels as Reverb Worship, none of which will mean anything to your average Folk Fan, who (to misquote Mark E Smith) wouldn't know the sun was up unless there was a feature in the Guardian about it.

So yes, Folknacious, plenty of people have heard of Sproatly Smith - so drop your folkrighteous quotes and get with the times least they pass you by.

And this is shaping up to be the Folk Event of the Year:

http://www.frootsmag.com/weirdlore/

See y'all there!

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 10:48 PM

"See y'all there!"

Hmmm....

despite our grumpy aversion to pretentious new age alt-lifestyle show off upper middle class art school fancy dress twats
it's tempting, if only for curiosity...

and I need a current bearing and reference point for my own pitiful outsider music 'trad folk' endevours.

Might even enjoy some of the music if it's not all a total tweeness overdose ???

But even if we could afford entrance to the gig and all travel costs,
local public transport back down to deepest darkest Scrumpysetshire after pub closing time
is shite non existent...

and me and the mrs are are getting too old now to walk round Bristol all night
looking for safe dry places to kip
until Temple Meads opens up for first train back home in the morning.

Folk House is a brilliant venue for such a potentially interesting mini festival;
enjoy the gig, and please get some performance vids to post here if you can.

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 06:30 AM

From the links suggested above, Sproatly Smith are about as twee as it gets; good players on their instruments, unusual arrangements, but breathy little-girl vocals and no bass end. Telling the Bees have a much gutsier sound, albeit rather pointless lyrics and reined-in delivery. (They look vaguely familiar, I think I must have met them somewhere).

Boxcar Aldous Huxley (also on the Weirdlore site) are another Telling the Bees - terrific instrumentals but the singing is a bit dull.

I guess what I'm looking for is a sort of folk Meredith Monk.

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: matt milton
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 06:52 AM

Since when did lack of bass = tweeness?! Meredith Monk has done plenty of work that's bass-shy, for one thing, though I wouldn't call her twee! (I would call her "new age bubblebath muzak" on occasion, though - her worst stuff can be a bit ECM)

The Sproatly Smith to my ears didn't sound twee, so much as very 70s pastoral, though they use enough sampled-sound collage jolts and juxtapositions to keep it bracing, in my humble opinion. The breathy vocals sounded more like understatement to me than a twee affectation: they're clearly not trying to sound cute, the way breathy vox normally are. I don't get any of that "hello trees" lullabye hippy coyness from Sproatly Smith, they sounded a little more clever than that.

Don't think there is a folk Meridith Monk. I'm not sure that's really possible anyway: were the folkish elements in minimalism to be more overt, then it wouldn't really be minimalism anymore. Or rather, the closest you get is probably Shirley Collins singing to her sister's portative organ. (Which is a lot better than Meredith Monk anyway.)

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 07:32 AM

What I had in mind with the comparison to Meredith Monk was the vocal technique. Monk and her collaborators push their voices as far as they can go, putting a tremendous amount of work into getting new sounds out of them. Nothing I've heard on that Weirdlore site has anybody taking vocal risks - nothing like a typical blues singer either, for that matter.

Understatement is fine if it's part of a repertoire that ranges through statement to overstatement. None of the singers I've heard on that site seem *capable* of erring on the side of melodrama. Compared with Monk, it's all trite and lazy.

Another one from that site: Jonny Kearney and Lucy Farrell. That's just plain gutless. What are we supposed to hear as "weird" about it? Didn't make it to the end of any of their sample tracks before I needed something to clean my ears out with: Anne Briggs and Richie Havens.

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: matt milton
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 08:18 AM

Yes, I thought exactly the same about Kearney and Farrell. I have no idea what they're doing on that bill. To be fair to the programming, they are the odd ones out though.

Have you listened to Mary Hampton's stuff Jack? I thought her most recent album, "Folly" was terrific stuff. Though you might find that a bit twee too (me, I think it's no more twee than Alan Garner or M.R. James)

And it's interesting to see you're a fan of Anne Briggs. I would never in a million years suggest Anne Briggs is twee, or that she has a "breathy" voice, but she is closer to that end of the scale than the Margaret Barry end, say. There's a danger in throwing the baby out with the bathwater sometimes - while I too hate coy breathy girly affectations, I do appreciate the fact that some female singers have airy, softy voices than others.

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 08:30 AM

despite our grumpy aversion to pretentious new age alt-lifestyle show off upper middle class art school fancy dress twats

I resent that, mostly, for whilst I'll accept pretentious (with qualifications), I reject all accusations of New Age Alt-Lifestyle Show Off Upper Middle Class Art School Fancy Dress Twats, none of which apply to Rapunzel & Sedayne, who are very much No-Age Humble Working Class Comprehensive School Regularly Clobbered Folkies, however so eccentric we might be viewed by the more pedantic elements of The (so-called) Revival. But I'm used to that though - I've been dealing with it for the last 4 decades.

*

Otherwise, not sure if Weirdlore is Weird in the sense of The Truly Weird, but there is a sense in which Hunter S Thompson's maxim rings true here in terms of a certain Idiomatic Rushcart which deafer ears here are obviously struggling to cope with. Hardly surpring on Mudcat - and it's got nothing to do with Meredith Monk I'm sure, rather another aspect of the British Folk Tradition which will always be anathema to the rank and file hence the tenor of the OP & this thread in general.

So, take your fingers out your ears, chaps, and just listen - if you like what you hear, then fine, if you don't then that's fine too. What isn't fine, however, is the usual barrage of grudgeful curmudgeonly epithets from the folk-righteous who for some reason (God knows what) count themselves qualified to call other people's work Twee & Gutless as if there's any sort of divine benchmark out there to judge them by. And Rapunzel & Sedayne are taking vocal risks the whole time; it's very much in our remit to do so; we get credit where credit is due, from those who know what they're on about and welcome it accordingly.

So - think positive, love life, and be glad that there's a little light shining in the darkness of folk these days, as the Cantankerous Baby Boomers threaten to implode with all the bitter negativity of a very senile dotage whilst people young & not-so-young, but young at heart, are actually out there smiling in the sunshine of something, perhaps, a little o'erdue - something I myself have been waiting 4 decades to see.

*

For more of Rapunzel & Sedayne's ongoing All-Live Brutadelic Séance with the Ghosts of Reductive Popular Song, Vernacular Musical Folklore, Border Balladry and other such Minstrelsy...

http://soundcloud.com/rapunzel-and-sedayne

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,Phil E at work
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 08:39 AM

Understatement is fine if it's part of a repertoire that ranges through statement to overstatement.

I wish I still had a use for sig quotes!

Phil
--
"Understatement is fine if it's part of a repertoire that ranges
through statement to overstatement." - Jack Campin

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: matt milton
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 08:51 AM

Hmmm, I'll have to agree to disagree there. Many of my favourite folkies never went near overstatement: understatement is one of the things that attracted me to the singers that got me into folk in the first place (Shirley Collins, Frank Profitt, Anne Briggs, Len Graham, Bert Jansch, Paddy Tunney, Mississippi John Hurt, Horton Barker, i could go on anon anon anon...)

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,Phil E at work
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 08:57 AM

The comments on the lack of bass also remind me of our recent discussion towards the end of this thread. If you're working unplugged, some sounds are a lot easier to produce than others.

On the "don't call it twee" front, this reminds me that I must get round to blogging my review of Oak Ash Thorn. I was going to write something when it came out, but held back when I realised that - despite thinking it's a really good album which everyone should own - there was something I didn't quite like about almost every single track, so an honest evaluation would have to be very carefully-worded and it's-not-them-it's-me if it wasn't going to backfire horribly. Maybe I should try anyway. As it goes, I feel a lot more wholeheartedly positive about the Woodbine & Ivy Band's album - and for that matter about FPR001 - so a rave review of Folk Police recordings collectively is still on the cards.

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,Phil E at work
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 09:00 AM

Sorry, thinking aloud. The point I meant to get to was that there is a floaty post-ISB sound; it's not hugely to my taste, but it can be done well (interestingly, innovatively) or badly (not).

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 09:07 AM

Bring it on! Soon as Oak Ash Thorn came out we ditched the harmonium in favour of the guitar giving a more up beat flavour to those numbers which were previously quite languid, like Harp Song, which now sounds like THIS. Needless to say it'll feature in all upcoming sets, Wierdlore included.

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 09:12 AM

Oh dear, just when I think my musical education is getting up to date and I'm starting to slowly progress beyond Trees and The Owl Sevice, along comes another batch of superb artistes I haven't come across before. So much interesting music - so little time!

I have to say a big THANKS to Spleen and Folk Police recordings for introducing me to some awesome music that I might otherwise have missed - your Spiral Earth Award is well-deserved. Now...to wyrd and beyond.....

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 09:32 AM

Can't get into Sproatly Smith, but I'm liking what I've heard so far of Telling The Bees - maybe it's the concertina giving it a bit of free-reedy goodness ...

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,Phil E at work
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 09:45 AM

Can't listen just now - what with being at work - but upbeat sounds good; pace was my big issue with a lot of those versions.

Forgot a link - that .

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,Phil E at work
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 09:46 AM

Oops.

Forgot a link - that lack of bass discussion.

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 10:54 AM

.. as good a thread as any for a reminder of this 3 decades old gloriously bonkers post punk whimsy...?????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OQEkXr1FSM

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 11:28 AM

.. and reflecting on the subject of vapid posh totty vocalists and lack of any substantial driving Bass frequencies...??

it's a shame Suzi Quatro never became a 'folk' artist !!!!!

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 11:29 AM

GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 11:28 AM..... was me again

distracted while waiting for kettle to boil and valve amp to warm up

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,Folknacious
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 12:44 PM

I'm now being distracted by this Weirdlore web page. Theres lots of stuff here that I'm not supposed to like according to my long-established tastes but am now getting hooked on. CD purchases have resulted, where people have them. Kearney & Farrell not so weird, maybe they should have had Emily Portman who Farrell plays with, but certainly not conventional. OK, I should have done my homework and some link clicking before asking stupid questions about Sproatly Smith, but can anybody tell me anything more about Algernon & The Hawk?

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: matt milton
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 01:30 PM

Algernon & the Hawk are true pioneers of Shuffle Folk. They practically invented the music some call "folkgauze".

Rumours that they are a fictitious joke band made up by Jim Moray are scurrilous lies, the internecine jealous backbiting of scenesters.

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 01:46 PM

Shame The Macrame Owl Project have been lying rather low of late...

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,Jef Spoonman
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 02:19 PM

Algernon and The Hawk recently received a glowing 3.5/5 review in Homophobic Druid zine. It said :

"Formed from the ashes of wyrdfolk pioneers Tentackle, AATH wear the fabric of mythic folklore in the same way that the clergy wear vestments - anachronistic, sometimes unintentionally comedic, but mostly with unquestioning belief in its symbolism. The whispered vocals of Algernon himself are buried deep under layers of reverb and sampled static, but the supporting textures of electric zither and tibetan bowls keep the whole from sounding derivative."

I believe Wyrdlore will be their first public performance in the new guise. 'Guise' being the operative term, from what I hear.

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 02:44 PM

The Macrame Owl Project recently performed in a squat in Bristol actually. Their forthcoming EP release is set to include Kid on a Chopper, Cracked Faux Brown Leather Sofa and Liebfraumilch Love

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: glueman
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 06:48 PM

Punkfolkrocker, I bet John Peel played that Native Hipsters track to death. Without looking up the details it smells very much of the time between punk meltdown and The Smiths. Long coats, scuzzy haircuts and bands called things like ;snakehamster or troutenvy climate thing.

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 07:07 PM

I bet John Peel played that Native Hipsters track to death

You bet. Massive hit in the reader-nominated Festive Fifty, too. To me it worked brilliantly as something you heard once on radio & told uncomprehending friends about the next morning, not entirely believing it yourself; hearing it over and over again took away the point.

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: glueman
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 07:21 PM

They were the novelty songs of their era, the Purple People Eater for Generation Thatcher. Peel did tend to get distracted by gewgaws and trinkets at times.

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: TheSnail
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 07:38 PM

They practically invented the music some call "folkgauze".

Suddenly I feel very, very old.

I quite like it.

(The only references I can find to "folkgauze" seem to be talking about what we used to call cheesecloth back in the sixties.)

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 11:39 AM

Matt - I think if you're saying that Anne Briggs, Shirley Collins or Bert Jansch sang in an understated style you're using the word to mean something different from Jack. They didn't yell their heads off - so perhaps the part about the spectrum running all the way to 'overstated' may not apply - but when any one of them sang a song it stayed sung. Bert Jansch's was the first folk voice I fell in love with, & part of what I loved about it was how big & rich it seemed.

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 12:10 PM

Voices I respect are mature warm and rich and convey depth of emotion.
Definitely includes Anne Briggs, Shirley Collins June Tabor, Maddy Prior, Carolanne Pegg...

... even Vashti Bunyan at the outer limits of tolerable song performance.....

But too many of the current wave of public school hippy 'faerie princesses'
just suffocate listeners with over-cloying 'A level Performance Arts' fey pleasantness..

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 02:11 PM

the current wave of public school hippy 'faerie princesses'

Who are these people? We don't tend to get 'em up in Manchester! I suspect you may be tilting at windmills (either that or they've all taken to singing in your local pub just to annoy you...)

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 02:25 PM

Maybe one benefit of being in Manchester..

I don't live that far away enough from Glastonbury.....

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 03:29 PM

There has to be one benefit! Glastonbury, though. That explains it.

Subject: RE: Guardian on 'Shuffle Folk', 'Weirdlore'
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 14 May 12 - 10:39 AM

So... the 10th June approaches. Still a few tickets left for Weirdlore at the Bristol Folk House, so grab 'em while you can.

In the meanwhile, Folk Police Recordings have put together an 18 track compilation album with all sorts of fab people contributing tracks you won't find elsewhere to compliment the event. You can find the details here: WEIRDLORE: Notes From the Folk Underground.