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Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight

Bonnie Shaljean 18 Mar 12 - 06:07 AM
Will Fly 18 Mar 12 - 06:24 AM
Jim Martin 18 Mar 12 - 08:56 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 18 Mar 12 - 02:58 PM
Richard Bridge 18 Mar 12 - 03:14 PM
GUEST,kenny 18 Mar 12 - 03:23 PM
Richard Bridge 18 Mar 12 - 03:28 PM
Will Fly 18 Mar 12 - 03:36 PM
GUEST,Wee Jock 19 Mar 12 - 07:25 AM
Dave Hanson 19 Mar 12 - 07:46 AM
theleveller 19 Mar 12 - 07:50 AM
GUEST,alex s no cookie 19 Mar 12 - 08:12 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 19 Mar 12 - 08:37 AM
GUEST 19 Mar 12 - 08:50 AM
Tattie Bogle 19 Mar 12 - 09:08 AM
GUEST,Dazbo at Work 19 Mar 12 - 09:15 AM
Dave Hanson 19 Mar 12 - 09:17 AM
GUEST,BanjoRay 19 Mar 12 - 10:42 AM
GUEST,JohnnyBeezer 19 Mar 12 - 10:59 AM
DMcG 19 Mar 12 - 11:30 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 19 Mar 12 - 11:55 AM
GUEST,Fyldeplayer 19 Mar 12 - 12:33 PM
Marje 19 Mar 12 - 02:29 PM
Richard Bridge 19 Mar 12 - 05:12 PM
Tootler 19 Mar 12 - 06:14 PM
Dave Hanson 20 Mar 12 - 04:31 AM
Marje 20 Mar 12 - 04:46 AM
Big Al Whittle 20 Mar 12 - 11:48 AM
Big Al Whittle 20 Mar 12 - 07:41 PM
Richard Bridge 20 Mar 12 - 09:08 PM
Big Al Whittle 20 Mar 12 - 09:23 PM
Big Al Whittle 20 Mar 12 - 09:37 PM
Richard Bridge 21 Mar 12 - 04:34 AM
theleveller 21 Mar 12 - 04:50 AM
Big Al Whittle 21 Mar 12 - 05:19 AM
Will Fly 21 Mar 12 - 05:31 AM
Will Fly 21 Mar 12 - 05:34 AM
Big Al Whittle 21 Mar 12 - 06:47 AM
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Subject: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 06:07 AM

Just a heads-up that BBC Four will be broadcasting "Songwriters' Circle: English Folk" with Martin Simpson, Steve Tilston and Michael Chapman tonight at 7:00* which is followed at 8:00 by "Songs of Ireland". More info here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01dpnx1

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01dpnx3

The evening schedule is here (the series about England's early queens at 11:00 pm is also good):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/programmes/schedules/today



*British time, 5 hours later than Mudcat time, a.k.a. US Eastern time


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 06:24 AM

Thanks for the heads-up, Bonnie - I haven't seen Mike Chapman since the days when I used to sit in the front row of the Cousins.

I might give the early queens a miss, though - I had a band gig last night and missed my fix of "Inspector Montalbano". Hurrah for the iPlayer!


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Jim Martin
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 08:56 AM

Sometimes what we'd do without BBC4, Sky Arts is quite good but not too much trad!


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 02:58 PM

Refresh, since it's on in a few minutes


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 03:14 PM

Songwriters, trad?


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 03:23 PM

Many thanks for bringing that to our notice, Bonnie.


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 03:28 PM

Some nice guitars and guitarwork on there!


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 03:36 PM

I'm enjoying an excellent programme - so good to see Mike Chapman after all these years - and great singing and superb playing from all three performers.

It would have been even nicer - but probably more problematical - if the guitars had been naturally mic-ed. The piezo-electrics on all three instruments gave that 'quacky', slightly plastic sound which is typical of modern internal pickups.

But that's a minor, minor quibble with a lovely programme - may there be many more.


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: GUEST,Wee Jock
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 07:25 AM

Watched both programmes yesterday, impressed by the three songwriters, but thought that the Songs of Ireland was just second rate how Celtic Connections had the gall to show these singers representing Irish Music at it's best beats me. The version of Danny Boy was embarrassing to watch and listen to. The best part was the hous band, more of them, less of the singers.

Wee Jock


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 07:46 AM

Solas, Fin Furey and Dick Gaughan were great, the rest were mediocre at best and ' Danny Boy ' was surely put in as a joke.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 07:50 AM

Songwiters Circle was an excellent programme - I, too, haven't seen Michael Chapman for years (probably since Leeds). Yup, nice guitars - I've played Steve Tilston's Brooks and it is superb (Ewan Mclennan has the same model).

Started to watch the Songs of Ireland prog. but didn't think much of it so turned over.


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: GUEST,alex s no cookie
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 08:12 AM

I agree with Wee Jock. A second rate show.

Fin Furey was embarrassingly bad (and I'm a big fan of his piping). The rest of the "stars" were mediocre. And all a bit too serious.

Solas were very good generally, a bit on the heavy side from time to time, but brilliant whistle playing.

Ireland has a lot better than this to offer.


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 08:37 AM

I do wish the media would stop recycling the same names over and over and over again. There is so much first-class but under-rated/under-exposed musical talent in Ireland, you just wouldn't believe it. A huge amount of this is in people who don't follow professional performing careers so you wouldn't expect to see them on telly; but there are enough others who do sing or play for a living, and deserve wider attention. (I agree with Dave Hanson about Solas, Furey & Gaughan, though - as Clive James once described something, the show was a Fabergé curate's egg.)


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 08:50 AM

Watched the Song Circle - liked the guitar playing and Steve Tilstons voice - The Oirish stuff I watched for two numbers and switched over. Too plasticky for words


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 09:08 AM

Lots of good music on BBC ALBA too, which Scottish viewers can now get on Freeview, and I expect the rest of the UK can on BBC iPlayer.
Missed last night's programmes but will download now! (Some of BBC4 programmes get repeated - eventually - on BBC2 - or vice versa, BBC2 progs on BBC4.)


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: GUEST,Dazbo at Work
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 09:15 AM

I thought it was a great misnomer to sub-title it English.

Did Michael Chapman actually sing (and I use the word very, very loosely - makes Leonard Cohen sound like Pavarotti in my opinion) anything that wasn't entirely based on Americana?

I enjoyed Steve Tilston more and Martin Simpson was as entertaining as ever but both of them seem to sing songs mainly about the USA (please bear in mind that my only experience Michael and Steve are from this programme and I kept turning over everytime Michael started "singing")


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 09:17 AM

Seeing Fin Furey was very nostalgic for me, I've not seen him since his days doing the folk clubs with Eddy as a duo, late 60s early 70s I've never seen the family band at all.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: GUEST,BanjoRay
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 10:42 AM

Just watched the Songwriters on the Iplayer - a very satisfying bit of picking and singing from all three. Great to see Mike Chapman is still in tremendous form after all these years!

Ray


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: GUEST,JohnnyBeezer
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 10:59 AM

I thought Mike Chapman was in tremendous form. Took me right back to the late 60's.
Wish he'd done Rabbit Hills though.


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 11:30 AM

Minor winge for posters in general: it's better to put '18 Mar 2012' (for example) than 'tonight'. But 'tonight' is still better than not posting a reminder at all, so thanks for that, Bonnie.


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 11:55 AM

Ahhh... good point!


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: GUEST,Fyldeplayer
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 12:33 PM

I so impressed with the Fran Healy, Ron Sexsmith & Graham Gouldman session I tuned in yesterday to "Songwriters' Circle: English Folk" - didn't stay long, but its totally subjective. All guitarists, I hope to see some concertina or melodeon or mandola players as well if its meant to be folk.

I also find the 'quacky', slightly plastic plugged-in sound unpleasant, surely BBC has tech guys capable of setting up 3 guitar mics - they all sat still!


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Marje
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 02:29 PM

Yes, thanks for the heads-up.

I missed the first programme but watched the Irish one. I have to say we thought it was dire - with the possible exception of Cara Dillon, the singing was awful, we were just cringing throughout. We kept thinking it must get better, and then they just recycled the same duff singers and gave them a second spot. And when it got to Danny Boy, we just switched off - it was excruciating.

I hear better singing than this - and more interesting songs - at my local pub singaround. This is, admittedly, in England, but I can't believe Ireland hasn't got more talent than that. Shame on the Celtic Connections organisers for choosing such poor performers, and on the BBC for showcasing them.

Marje


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 05:12 PM

I can listen to Martin Simpson's guitarwork endlessly.


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Tootler
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 06:14 PM

As others have said. The Songwriters programme was excellent, though I did think Mike Chapman had a bit too much of a mid-Atlantic accent at times which spoilt his delivery for me. Steve Tilston's Slip Jigs and Reels to finish was first class. Great song and first class performance.

The Irish programme that followed it was simply not in the same league. I wasn't even particularly impressed by the house band. I thought there was too many of them and the sound was just a mush, though I did think the whistle player was first class. I suspect they are all excellent musicians in their own right, but together they did not really fit together somehow and their backing for the singers was just too much. There was a need for a much lighter touch on the arrangements. It all felt over produced. I got up and went to do the washing up half way through Cara Dillon's attempt at 'She Walked through the Fair'. As Marj put it above, I've heard much better in local folk clubs and these are supposedly top line professionals performing in Scotland's Premier Folk Festival.


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 04:31 AM

I find Cara Dillon's voice just too shrill, like she's been on the helium.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Marje
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 04:46 AM

I'm no great fan of Cara Dillon either, I don't like that little-girl voice much, but she was at least singing with a certain style and expressiveness. She does what she sets out to do, and does it competently. But it was a hackneyed choice of song, and to my mind over-orchestrated and charmless.


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 11:48 AM

I expect you had to be a guiatrist to fully appreciate the songwriters thing. (and a devotee of these artists)

Mike Chapman - very interesting. Never realised how much of the late John Fahey there was in his aproach to guitar playing. Dazzling rhythmic integrity of arpeggios - that make make the weird chord changes acceptable to the ear. Mike used to sing like that when he was young and sexy. Cohen's not a bad comparison. Both of them sort of give readings of their songs. You would have been dazzled bu the brilliance of Derek Brimstone singing and playing Chapman's March Rain. Believe you me, the lyricism is there.

Martin's last song was intriguing. Very Carthy like chords - and yet Martin is so differet as a guitarist. Every chord, every note is set down with crystal clarity, like a great jeweller setting diamonds in a ring or beautiful tiara. Whereas Martin himself has that Broonzy clunk in everything he does - hismind set on a 'folk gold standard' that lurks within his brain - and is full of totally unexpected twists and turns - like a Miles, or Lightning Hopkins solo. Also Marin has slowed down his masterpiece Never any good with money - intriguing!

Loved Steve's reworking of the Wizz Jones piece. The words humanise this - previously i only knew it from Ralph Mctell. Not keen on the beard Steve!


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 07:41 PM

Just watched the Irish programme - do you think that camera man was trying to discover if the fiddler and the cello ladies had shaved underr their arms.

In truth, I couldn't blame him , if he was. I'm a great fan of ladies pubic hair myself.


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 09:08 PM

Al, I'd like to understand your guitar-related comment better. Which Martin is which in it? Could you paste it back in again clarifying when you mean Martin Simpson and when you mean Martin Carthy?


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 09:23 PM

Martin'Simpsons last song was intriguing. Very Carthy like chords - and yet Martin (Simpson)is so differet as a guitarist (from Martin Carthy). Every chord, every note is set down with crystal clarity, like a great jeweller setting diamonds in a ring or beautiful tiara. Whereas Martin Carthy himself has that Broonzy clunk in everything he does - hismind set on a 'folk gold standard' that lurks within his brain - and is full of totally unexpected twists and turns - like a Miles, or Lightning Hopkins solo. Also Martin Simpson has slowed down his masterpiece Never any good with money - intriguing!


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 09:37 PM

Sadly Richard _ I dfon't suppose I'm saying anything of great insight or originality. Merely that the song emphasised the two styles - Martin Simpson'd clean melodic lines and martin Carthy whose first great influence as a guitarist (Big Bill Broonzy) makes him a rhythmic player of great distinction - whatever he attempts, it swings!


If you listen to a Spanish guitarist like Narcisso Ypes's version of Tarrega famous tremolo study (A Recuerdos de L'Alhambra) - you can see clearly Ypes perceiving a rhthmic integrity and John Williams playing the same piece but with every note studied given its full value - still very passionate. Both styles the rhthmic and the melodic are a sort of lovely miracle.


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 04:34 AM

Yes, I get it now - the famous Carthy thumb, by which you could set your watch. I have listened to both Yepes and Williams but had not thought of that difference in that context. Did Bream record the Alhambra too?


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 04:50 AM

"the famous Carthy thumb, by which you could set your watch"

Robin Dransfield has that it heaps.


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 05:19 AM

I bet Bream did - it seems to be a rite of passage for classical guitarists!


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 05:31 AM

I first heard the "Recuerdos" on an early recording by Andres Segovia, many years ago - and was delighted to see him perform it in person in the early 1907s at the Festival Hall. The most famous version I would guess, also recorded many years ago, is probably by Yepes.

I had a go at it in my early guitar playing days. If you take away the tremolo and just play the tremolo notes as single notes, the actual melody is not too hard. The difficulty is in making those triplets rock steady - every note given the same weight and value and level of intensity and tone throughout the whole piece.


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 05:34 AM

... and, hey, if you want to have a go at it, here's the free sheet music...

Recuerdos de la Alhambra

I recollect the first time I went to the Alhambra, in 1974. I could almost feel the music - an incredible place. The old guide who took us round said he'd spent his whole life there as a guide.


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Subject: RE: Folk programmes on BBC 4 TV tonight
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 06:47 AM

Yeh its terrific - the generaliffe - the gardens and the ruins of the 16th century palace. Just love it.

I remember talking about the place to this guy I was teaching with in Derby - fancied himself as a bit of a Muslim fundamentalist.

He was saying how the Koran forbad depictions of gods creations. I thought about this for a bit, then one day I said to him - what about the Lions around fountain at the Alhambra - rumoured to be the greatest piece of Muslim architecture in the world.

He thought for a minute and then said, they shouldn't be there - you know!


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