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BS: Guns & laws in the US

GUEST,Stim 22 May 12 - 02:25 PM
Bobert 22 May 12 - 01:01 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 22 May 12 - 10:58 AM
gnu 21 May 12 - 08:06 PM
McGrath of Harlow 21 May 12 - 07:27 PM
Bobert 21 May 12 - 07:20 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 21 May 12 - 07:02 PM
gnu 21 May 12 - 04:07 PM
Bobert 21 May 12 - 01:14 PM
Stringsinger 21 May 12 - 11:21 AM
Bobert 20 May 12 - 07:30 PM
Bobert 20 May 12 - 07:11 PM
Bobert 20 May 12 - 07:07 PM
bobad 20 May 12 - 07:03 PM
Bobert 20 May 12 - 06:58 PM
gnu 20 May 12 - 05:32 PM
Bobert 20 May 12 - 04:27 PM
gnu 20 May 12 - 02:11 PM
Bobert 20 May 12 - 09:56 AM
Bobert 20 May 12 - 08:42 AM
gnu 19 May 12 - 11:04 PM
bobad 19 May 12 - 09:41 PM
Bobert 19 May 12 - 08:48 PM
gnu 19 May 12 - 08:06 PM
Bobert 19 May 12 - 07:59 PM
gnu 19 May 12 - 07:22 PM
Bobert 19 May 12 - 07:15 PM
bobad 19 May 12 - 05:47 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 13 May 12 - 07:01 AM
Bobert 12 May 12 - 06:53 PM
Bobert 12 May 12 - 06:44 PM
gnu 12 May 12 - 06:11 PM
Greg F. 12 May 12 - 05:55 PM
Bill D 12 May 12 - 01:45 PM
bobad 12 May 12 - 09:14 AM
Little Hawk 22 Apr 12 - 11:16 PM
gnu 22 Apr 12 - 02:59 PM
Jack the Sailor 22 Apr 12 - 02:25 PM
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Bobert 22 Apr 12 - 10:09 AM
olddude 22 Apr 12 - 02:26 AM
Little Hawk 21 Apr 12 - 10:59 PM
olddude 21 Apr 12 - 07:55 PM
Bobert 21 Apr 12 - 07:29 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 21 Apr 12 - 06:53 PM
kendall 21 Apr 12 - 12:03 PM
Little Hawk 20 Apr 12 - 08:06 PM
Bobert 20 Apr 12 - 07:00 PM
GUEST,olddude 20 Apr 12 - 02:37 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 20 Apr 12 - 11:38 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 22 May 12 - 02:25 PM

Just noticed that "Gnu" is an anagram of "Gun". I'll be going now-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 22 May 12 - 01:01 PM

As with every other issue, the right wing in America won't compromise, won't listen and won't give an inch on anything... These people are as dogmatic as the Southern Democrats were in 1860... They want everything their way... You can't talk to people like this... What I can't believe is the number of Americans who go out and vote for these miserable people...

The worst part about these people is that they all seem to be eaten up with hatred for the government but when something bad happens to them have their hands out begging...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 May 12 - 10:58 AM

""By you saying you can't talk with the other side because they won't listen... well, that fucks that then, doesn't it? May as well just give up and let the criminals win.""

America has already done that Gnu.

Show me just one example of the NRA or any of its members discussing any suggested change to the status quo.

Plenty changes have been suggested, some more reasonable than others, which proves that one side is open to discussion.

Show me anybody on the pro gun side who can say that.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: gnu
Date: 21 May 12 - 08:06 PM

Don... "There is only one party being unreasonable about Good Gun Laws..."

Wrong. They see what happened in Canada and they won't give an inch because they are scared it will happen in the US. We have VERY good gun laws and very BAD gun laws. The bad ones are VERY bad... they CREATE criminal opportunities and have "allowed" serious crimes... robbery and murder. The criminals like the bad laws because THEY do not follow the good laws. Surprise, surprise.

Anyway, I am not gonna explain it all for the tenth + time. Fact is, BOTH sides need to talk. By you saying you can't talk with the other side because they won't listen... well, that fucks that then, doesn't it? May as well just give up and let the criminals win.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 May 12 - 07:27 PM

There is one good thing about the US gun law situation - the spectable of the nightmare you've got yourself trapped into provides a pretty solid safeguard against any nuts ever succeeding in watering down the gun regulations in my country.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 21 May 12 - 07:20 PM

"GOOD gun laws"???

I'd settle with "fair gun laws"...

Right now??? There is not one single gun law that doesn't have a loophole... Not one... In other words, there are no real gun laws... Not one...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 May 12 - 07:02 PM

""Truly sad when the solutions with regard to legislation, although not perfect, could be implemented if all parties were reasonable about GOOD gun laws.""

There is only one party being unreasonable about Good Gun Laws Gnu, and that is the party which won't allow any change whatever, and has the money to buy politicians to enforce its will.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: gnu
Date: 21 May 12 - 04:07 PM

Truly sad when the solutions with regard to legislation, although not perfect, could be implemented if all parties were reasonable about GOOD gun laws.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 21 May 12 - 01:14 PM

Yup...


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 May 12 - 11:21 AM

The crazy people have guns because of the NRA. The Founding Fathers had no idea that the Second Amendment would be turned on its head. They had no idea that gun violence would be an epidemic in the U.S. supported by trigger happy gun owners who irresponsibly defend their weak position.

The solution is simple. More regulations that have impact rather than the Congress being controlled by the NRA.

The U.S. is now Dodge City and the polls as usual are inaccurate.

The U.S. is now the most trigger happy nation in the world.

There are more regulations against abortion rights than there are guns, today.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 20 May 12 - 07:30 PM

BTW, two other sources:

1. Legal Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

2. United States Crime Rates 1960-2010

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 20 May 12 - 07:11 PM

My bad... It was only 97,000 people shot last year... Not 100,000...

B;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 20 May 12 - 07:07 PM

They, if I read their stuff correctly, are talking about homicides, bobadz...

The Brady people are talking about all shootings...

But when it comes to anything controversial, Wikipedia has a tendency to not be all that reliable... The moderators there have come under fire for not allowing corrections by certain groups of people...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: bobad
Date: 20 May 12 - 07:03 PM

Wikipedia documents it's stats. Look at my link - every stat is referenced.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 20 May 12 - 06:58 PM

It's not... It is run by the wife of Jim Brady, the Reagan assistant who was shot and paralyzed the day Reagan was shot... It's about the only real site to be found that documents its stats... And the 100,000 number of people shot (not all killed) is accurate...

BTW, don't ever try to find out how many cops have been shot in the last 10 years... Might take some serious plowing of NRA sites before you find the real numbers...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: gnu
Date: 20 May 12 - 05:32 PM

Bobert... Brady site... nope... didn't go lookin fer it. Musta missed why I shoulda. Too busy messin with other shit. If it's important, I will but if it's just more a tha same, well...


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 20 May 12 - 04:27 PM

Yup, it is, gn-ze... I mean, here we are supposedly all worried about terrorism but any whacked out person or group of people can now arm themselves equal to or better than law enforcement and no one will know...

But, here's the deal... This ain't going into law... The Senate won't let it get to Obama's desk...

But it does show just how little the House respects our safety...

BTW, did ya find that Brady site???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: gnu
Date: 20 May 12 - 02:11 PM

"The House of Representatives just passed a repeal of the "multiple gun purchase notification""

That is sickening!


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 20 May 12 - 09:56 AM

BTW, my stats are for ***all*** shooting victims... Not just those who die...

BTW, Part 2... I learned "gun safety" and marksmanship from the NRA... Back when I was a member everyone in the organization were just regular folks without political agendas... Today??? Not your grandfather's (or my) NRA...

BTW, Part 3... The House of Representatives just passed a repeal of the "multiple gun purchase notification" where when someone purchased a number of guns at the same time that ATF would be notified... So if you want to buy a U-Haul truck's worth of AK-47, a million rounds of ammo and a $2 book on how to make them fire automatically then according to the House of Reps that ain't no one, especially the federal government's business... Wonder what these people are going to say when an entire right winged militia shows up at a po0litical rally and guns down a couple thousand people??? Opp!!! Guns don't kill people, people kill people??? And fully automatic AK-47s kill lots of people real fast... That is why they are military weapons...

Never mind... All the sane arguments in the world can't go up against the powerful NRA... And if you present too many of them then one of their bobble-head worshipers will just kill you...

And the beat goes on...

BTW, here in NC cops are reluctant to pull people over for minor traffic violations without backup for fear of being shot...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 20 May 12 - 08:42 AM

Google up the Brady site...

Remember, wikipedia isn't factual oib everything and the gun-nuts grind out a lot of energy pushing facts down, down, down... If you Google up just about anything related to guns the first 3 or 4 pages will be propaganda that right winged bloggers are paid to clog up...

The Brady site will give ya'll other soources should you be interested...

BTW, I wouldn't go to an NRA meeting any more than I would go to a KKK meeting... And this from a former NRA member and NRA shoot club participant...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: gnu
Date: 19 May 12 - 11:04 PM

Guns don't kill people. Poverety, lack of education and ignorance kill people. Well educated and well fed people don't kill people. Guns are not the problem. People are the problem. If people were to take care of each other... oh, WTF... they won't... which is why the gun nuts think they need their guns. And, they have a right to their guns... just ask em. And ya know what? They are right. If they ain't doin anything wrong with their guns, they have a right to have their guns.

If all the "good" gun nuts and the anti-gun nuts got together and demanded that society addressed the poverty and social injustice that occurs EVERY minute of EVERY DAY we might see a solution to a serious problem. Until the real problems are addressed, bang bang shoot em up is bound to continue (with ILLEGAL guns). To cite legal and law abiding gun owners as the problem is just off the wall fuckin nuts. The longer this inane attitude is taken, the longer it will take to solve the real problem(s) and curtail this terrible affliction.

Ya wanna get guns off the street? Join the NRA and go to the meetings and SPEEK UP. Or start a new org... oh, gee, where have I heard that before?

C'mon... it ain't rocket science... get off yer ass and get the job done or stop that inane bullshit weening.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: bobad
Date: 19 May 12 - 09:41 PM

There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000.[4] The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides,[5] with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide, while 12,632 (40.5%) were homicide deaths.[6]

That's from Wikipedia

Whatever the hell the numbers are they way too many and are reflective of the number and availability of guns in the US.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 19 May 12 - 08:48 PM

Google "Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence", Gn-ze...

Here's the deal with searches... The NRA clogs up the first 10 or so search pages so folks give up trying to get to real facts rather than their propaganda...

From the Brady link you make be able to find un-clogged info that substantiates what I have reported...

Yes, it is getting harder and harder and harder to get over the NRA block of information but it still can be done...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: gnu
Date: 19 May 12 - 08:06 PM

I googled it before I posted. Can't find any support for 100,000 shot. I'd say I am sorry but I think it's a good thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 19 May 12 - 07:59 PM

Google it, Gn-ze... It ain't hard to find... It has been well reported... If I did clicky things I could give you 10 sources in 10 minutes...

But yer a smart guy so after you find the sources. please do a clicky, por favor...

The stats are 100% correct!!! I guarantee it or I will carry your jock strap fro a month... I'll even put it over my head...

Google it, please...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: gnu
Date: 19 May 12 - 07:22 PM

100,000? Got a source?


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 19 May 12 - 07:15 PM

Yup... We are a sick nation because if there is money involved then fuck free speech, certain conversation and sanity...

This is the free market of Ayn Rand...

100,000 Americans were shot last year and 100,000 more will be shot this year and 100,000 the year after that...

Guns in hands of otherwise sane people turn them into Rambo...

This is all very much insanity...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: bobad
Date: 19 May 12 - 05:47 PM

Friday night on Current TV's "The Young Turks," host Cenk Uygur charged that there's one party in the Trayvon Martin slaying that is truly, undeniably guilty, but it isn't a person.

"Guns are the real problem," he said.

Rolling recently released store camera video of 17-year-old Martin buying a pack of Skittles candy and an Arizona Iced Tea just moments before he encountered Zimmerman and was fatally shot, Uygur said, "That kid that you just saw — he's 17 years old — he would be alive today if George Zimmerman didn't have a gun."

Citing the Geneva-based Graduate Institute of International Studies's Small Arms Survey, Uyger pointed out that the United States is the most heavily armed nation in the world, with 90 guns per 100 people. Yemen is in second place, but only has 60 guns per 100 people. David Hemenway, director of the Harvard University Injury Control Research Center, authored a paper in 2011 called "Risks and Benefits of Guns in the Home," which stated that children in the U.S. are 11 times more likely to die in a gun-related accident than children in other developed nations. The Centers for Disease Control's statistics for gun fatalities in 2009 include 11,493 homicides, 18,735 suicides and 554 accidental deaths, a combined 31,347 gun deaths for the year.

"We've turned our country into the O.K. Corral," Uygur said, "We're sick with it, sick in the head with guns."

The host blames gun manufacturers and their powerful lobbying group, the National Rifle Association (NRA). "I know, I know — progressives aren't supposed to fight back on this. Nobody's supposed to fight back — we're just supposed to lie down and say, 'okay, NRA… I know you represent the gun manufacturers and then get rich off of all those people dying.' And you use all your fancy arguments and you've already bought all the politicians… But someone's gonna stand up to you and it's gonna happen right here. You don't like it, that's too bad."

Cenk Uygur: America is 'sick in the head with guns'


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 May 12 - 07:01 AM

""Martin was wearing a hoodie and returning from a convenience store with Skittles and tea when he was shot on February 26 in Sanford, Florida. Neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman, 28, is awaiting trial for second-degree murder in the racially charged case.

"Obviously, we support Zimmerman and believe he is innocent and that he shot a thug," the seller wrote on the site, according to WKMG-TV.
""

Of course!! Every gun toting halfwit in Florida knows that the implements of choice for black burglars are tea and Skittles.

Jesus H Christ. How do they manage to survive without brain cells?

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 12 May 12 - 06:53 PM

and...

...300

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 12 May 12 - 06:44 PM

I'm going to look into having a decal of George Zimmerman made up that you install in your toilet... Another one of Charlton Heston...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: gnu
Date: 12 May 12 - 06:11 PM

bobad... that is beyond sickening.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 May 12 - 05:55 PM

Good Ol' Florida - folks tend to forget that its one of the most virulent racist states in the Land Of The Free and always has been.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bill D
Date: 12 May 12 - 01:45 PM

that should read "We WANT to .."support Zimmerman and believe he is innocent and that he shot a thug,"

Sickening............It was clear from the 1st reports that it was just a kid with candy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: bobad
Date: 12 May 12 - 09:14 AM

Shooting targets resembling Trayvon Martin sold online

By Barbara Liston

ORLANDO, Florida | Fri May 11, 2012 6:16pm EDT

(Reuters) - Shooting targets resembling Trayvon Martin, the unarmed black teenager shot to death in Florida by a neighborhood watch volunteer, were offered for sale online before the ads were pulled by the auction site.

The sale at an online gun broker's auction site started on April 22 and offered 40 10-packs of paper targets, according to a screen shot of the auction ad by WKMG-TV in Orlando before the ad was taken down.

The targets featured a silhouette of a faceless person wearing a hooded sweatshirt, known as a hoodie, and holding a bag of Skittles candy and a container of tea. In an email exchange with WKMG, the seller claimed to be motivated by profit and to have sold out in two days.

Martin was wearing a hoodie and returning from a convenience store with Skittles and tea when he was shot on February 26 in Sanford, Florida. Neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman, 28, is awaiting trial for second-degree murder in the racially charged case.

"Obviously, we support Zimmerman and believe he is innocent and that he shot a thug," the seller wrote on the site, according to WKMG-TV.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 11:16 PM

I think it was mostly a case of "benign neglect" in Canada rather than extermination. There were very few Indian wars in Canada following, of course, the extensive fighting that occurred in the French and Indian War that preceded the American Revolution.

During the same period, there were hundreds of Indian wars in the USA. The British government, on the whole, appears to have been intent on avoiding such conflicts, but it had the advantage of sending in the legal apparatus first into new territories, rather than allowing settlement first...with little or no law. It was the aggressive expansion of unregulated settlement, whiskey-trading, and other essentially "free market capitalist" policies that provoked most of the Indian wars in the USA. The indians, in essence, were sitting on precious land and resources that the settlers and business people wanted to exploit...so the Indians had to go.

In Canada, the crown went in first (in the form of the mounted police) and established the rule of law. Then settlers came in afterward. There was no lawless period in the territories, and whisky traders were not allowed to set up their operations. This greatly assisted in maintaining peace between Whites and Indians, because the law was there and the law was not to be questioned, and everyone understood how it worked, Indians included. It greatly protected the Indians from the worst abuses, such as the whisky traders and lawless men and gangs that terrorized the American West during the same period...a period of almost unbroken peace in the Canadian west (save for the Riel rebellion).

The British approach was essentially a socialist approach, in that the central government goes in first with police and courts and legal systems, and establishes the rule of law.

And that basic difference in national philosophy between the USA and Canada remains to this day. The USA has always encouraged unregulated laissez-faire aggressive profit-oriented business operations by private commerce of every sort to open up any new area that is annexed. Making money becomes the main motivator. The British back then brought in the rule of law first, and business afterward. That's a vital difference in social philosophy. What are you really in it for? Establishing social order? Or making a quick financial killing and getting something for nothing? In the American West, it was the latter, and that's what caused most of the Indian wars to occur. The Indians were getting robbed everywhere the USA settlers went, they had no legal recourse of any sort in the lawless territories, so they fought back with every means at their command. In the end, of course, they lost. And the Indians lost in Canada too in the end....but not in nearly so violent a manner.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: gnu
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 02:59 PM

Indeed, JtS. But, I have heard it said. Hence, my *


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 02:25 PM

"One is whether the government deliberately distributed small pox infected to plains (and other) tribes."

The history I learned was that the Hudson's Bay Company gave Small Pox blankets to "lazy drunkin troublemakers" (their descriptions) who had settled around their trading posts and begged for liquor. I never heard of the government, which came much later, being so accused.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: gnu
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 01:18 PM

Don... "It's a hell of a long way back in this thread, but from what I can recall, I said that Canada didn't feel the need to exterminate them."

There is debate over that. One is whether the government deliberately distributed small pox infected to plains (and other) tribes.*

Of course, I am assuming you are referring to slaughter by military forces (or, as some history books call it, war). The Northwest Mounted Police and British Forces, to my knowledge, never engaged in such practice. I assume this was a concious decision made by the British Parliament after a logistical analysis by their military commanders in the field. Of course, the Brits did employ some tribes to pursue such practices on other tribes.*

Please note that I have a very limited knowledge of USA and CAN history in this regard.

* I would hasten to add, in both istances, that these (most - again, debatable) took place long before the US military engaged Native Peoples.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 10:09 AM

So, now that we agree that the wrong thinking of the NRA has trumped common sense to the point where even the president of the United States is afraid to piss them off then looks as if this discussion has run its course...

Sans, Chongz, of course, who can keep any discussion going with his three-ringed-crazy-monkey routine...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: olddude
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 02:26 AM

Chongo has my vote there LH ... a good old fashioned red neck ape is just what we need fer sure. Can me and "Rap" be minster's of the arsenal. Hell we have torn apart put together and shot about everything ever made . And we could train em right how to hold an Uzi on full auto ... I even know how to conceal it ... yup my vote


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 10:59 PM

That's right, Bobert...wrong thinking is the problem.

Regarding Obama's supposedly dire intentions of taking everyone's guns away...there can't be any truth to it, because if there was, Chongo would be going ballistic about it! And he's not. Case closed. Obama is not going to take your guns away.

Chongo's main point, though, is that he will encourage gun ownership more than Obama would, more than Romney would, more than Wild Bill Hickock or Machine Gun Kelly would, more than practically anyone would! He intends to return the USA to more or less the conditions that existed in, say, the 1870's when it comes to gun ownership. The more the merrier. ;-D He would also like to have a lot more gunnery training schools around so that the public can learn proper and safe use of their firearms...at least one such school for every 1,000 citizens right across the country. This would provide a lot of new jobs and ease the unemployment problem.

Just another great idea from the APP! Vote for Chongo in 2012.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: olddude
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 07:55 PM

Well if Obama is going to take them all away ... anyone want to buy a great colt .357 Mag. I never shoot it anyway :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 07:29 PM

How about "wrong thinking", LH???

I mean, when folks use mis-information and mythologies to advocate bad laws and policies they don't get a pass... Something wrong is happening...

BTW, Obama hasn't pushed one single gun regulation but that doesn't stop Mitt Romney and the NRA going into their Obama-is-gonna-take-yer-guns-away BIG LIE

Yawn...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 06:53 PM

""Don T, If you think Canada never had an Indian problem, look up the Massacre of the Miti.

As far as fewer cops being shot, just recently in Greenland NH 4 of them got it, but the bastard who did it also bit the big one.
""

I'm puzzled cap'n.

1. I never said that Canada didn't have an Indian problem. It's a hell of a long way back in this thread, but from what I can recall, I said that Canada didn't feel the need to exterminate them.

2. I do not recall specifically mentioning cop killings in this thread at all.

Are you sure you have the right Don?

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: kendall
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 12:03 PM

Don T, If you think Canada never had an Indian problem, look up the Massacre of the Miti.

As far as fewer cops being shot, just recently in Greenland NH 4 of them got it, but the bastard who did it also bit the big one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 08:06 PM

It isn't exactly lack of thought that is the problem, Bobert. Everyone thinks in some fashion. They think along their own accustomed and habitual lines of internal "logic", and whatever happens to push their buttons and sustain their mythology. In fact, most people are almost incapable of not thinking (becoming internally silent and calm) whenever they're awake...and that is exactly what bedevils them. They get drunk and take drugs to partially silence their unruly mind which is causing them so much stress! ;-) So it isn't lack of thought that's the problem. It's unhealthy, unproductive, immature, fearful and divisive patterns of thought that are the problem. It's negative thoughts that are the problem.

And I'm saying that a ruling elite and the mass media usually encourage a great deal of unhealthy and negative patterns of thought...specially when they are getting their public pumped up to fight a war...or to surrender some of their long enshrined civil liberties for the sake of "security".

****

Don - Yes, you're essentially correct about the Romans establishing that rule of iron, and assimilating populations into the empire, and offering those populations various incentives to cooperate. For sure. But they did use typical divide and conquer tactics whenever it was to their immediate advantage, as any conquering empire does. For awhile it was Christians who served as the Empire's scapegoats for the public to focus anger on. They were viciously persecuted and often killed, it was a bit like what the Nazis did with the Jews and other groups in the brief era of the Third Reich. Later a time came when it occurred to the emperor of Rome that Christianity could serve more effectively as a force to unite the empire and coopt a large variety of other faiths, and it became the official religion of Rome after that. The Romans ran the world's most successful and longlasting empire, so they obviously were pretty good at it. But...things moved much more slowly then than they do now. Our modern technologies have greatly speeded up social change. An empire that would have lasted 500 years back then might last only 50 now. The American Empire (which consists of financial/mercantile and military control over others and estabishing client/puppet governments rather than by open colonization) really got going fullblast at the conclusion of WWII (though it had been underway in a smaller fashion ever since the declaration of the Monroe Doctrine). It's been over 65 years since WWII ended. I think time is running out for the American Empire. What comes afterward is hard to say, but we may not live long enough to find out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 07:00 PM

How does "thoughtless" work fir ya', LH???

Serious...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 02:37 PM

Don
I said "I" since I don't know any criminals or drug dealers I will still stand by what I said.


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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 11:38 AM

""It was that way in Roman times. It is that way now.""

Ancient history 101 LH.

Rome conquered pretty much all of the then known world by force of arms and set up an empire which lasted 500 years by doing the exact opposite.

They didn't divide, they assimilated and rewarded conquered races.

Taking Carthage as an example: After destroying the city they built a huge city of their own and welcomed all of the local, mostly nomadic tribes, many of whom settled and in the fulness of time became Roman citizens.

North Africa didn't become Roman, Romans in North Africa became one with the Africans, and the benefits accrued were such that few complained.

Not divide and conquer, then rule with a rod of iron, more conquer, then treat as allies and eventually assimilate.

Don T.


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