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BS: Guns & laws in the US
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: gnu Date: 14 Apr 12 - 01:44 PM Dan... as you well know and for the edification of anyone who does not know, A semi can be turned into an auto in minutes with screw drivers, wrenches and a file. Let me try to make my point(s) above a tad more clear... I think some see a problem which exists and think the NRA is at fault for it when it is clearly the fault of the US federal and state governments. Here, since the 30s, restricted weapons (barrel less that 18" long, automatics, some others) have required a permit of ownership and transport to and from an approved range must be by permit with the route taken being the shortest between one's home and the range. These permits must include the date and time(s) of transport. A permit can be issued for regular transport, eg, every Thursday night from 6PM to 10PM. A change of address requires a change of permit(s). As I understand it, in some states one can purchase a machine pistol and ammo and then sell these to any nutcase or criminal. I kinda see that as a wee problem too. But that isn't the NRA's fault. As for the NRA lobbying $, well, that's the governments' fault as well as the fault of the people who elect the governments. Is there an NARA you antis can donate to? Are you a member? There, clear as mud now, eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 01:30 PM on a documentary I saw some border agents stop a guy coming out of the Texas gun show, He had 14 AR-15's that he bought (that is the military M-16 but not fully auto) .. and it was all legal they could do nothing. Insanity runs to the bone |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 01:27 PM almost always all cash Bill, no records, no trace .. that is whats so terrible. And they have one setup 1 mile from the Mexican border in Texas ... Insane |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bill D Date: 14 Apr 12 - 01:18 PM What I do NOT know, never having been to a gun show, is whether those credit card machines are used at gun shows, or whether is is largely *wink-wink* cash deals.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: gnu Date: 14 Apr 12 - 01:15 PM I am totally in favour of good gun laws, including registration IN THE US but the registration in Canada... no. Not until we have a written right to "bear arms". Having said that, the destruction of the records and the discontinuance of registration is a step backward (yes, I was against it in the first place) but it's typical of our goverment to throw away over $1B to NOT address the actual problems. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bill D Date: 14 Apr 12 - 01:04 PM It is largely for the 'convenience'... as dealers are there from all over and were not able to do all the checks required of stores. I think that it 'could' be required to have a database made...with internet access... vaguely like credit card validity is checked immediately. A license # of BOTH buyer & seller could be attached to any sales... and restrictions on purchases could be enforced... just as my grocery store can monitor whether I am going from store to store, buying sale items in excess of stated limits. They 'could' design such a system... they just don't want to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 14 Apr 12 - 12:56 PM Anybody know what the reasoning is - if any - behind the "gun show exclusion"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bill D Date: 14 Apr 12 - 12:41 PM I repeat... comparing guns to cars is simply bad reasoning. Even though it is important to make safe driving laws strong, cars are not DESIGNED to injure or to use in crime. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 12:40 PM all from the gun shows Bill, that is why I want our politicians to stop spinning their wheels on nonsense laws that give an illusion of doing something and give us a law that will keep the guns off the street or at least help considerably. You are right when you say the NRA lobby, but the NRA doesn't make laws. That is why our political fathers need to grow balls stand up and say no more gun shows. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bill D Date: 14 Apr 12 - 12:37 PM "not all of us gun owners do drive by shooting ya know" That is a straw man... it has no place as a serious comment. Dan... re-read my post carefully. You are reading between the lines or ignoring the carefully worded gist of hat I say about 'responsible' gun owners. As of today, I WOULD trust you...or gnu...or Mick...etc. and would have no problems IF you and the others were the only types who could get guns!!! The problem is.... the way things are set up, YOUR rights allow all the dangerous & incompetent folk to do almost anything they wish! Guns are not LIKE cars.. or toaster ovens, which CAN be dangerous if mis-used. Guns in modern society are largely toys! After hunting...which needs only certain types of long guns, they are needed only by law enforcement or military...and a 'few' persons who have special needs. Other countries both laugh at our laws and attitudes ...and complain because illegal guns in their countries often come from the US! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Apr 12 - 12:34 PM Maybe one reason the NRA went nuts was because members who weren't "nuts" left the organisation instead of fighting their corner, and continuing to fight it until they were expelled. I'm sure that there are "car nuts" who would like to abolish all kinds of speed limts or driving tests and licences and so forth. But they are a tiny crazy minority who would never be seen as representative of the sane majority of car drivers. Why doesn't the same apply in the USA when it comes to guns? Or are the "nuts" actually in a majority? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 12:28 PM I also know a hell of a lot of people that should not be allowed to drive also. I would take any of the people I know carrying a firearm to any of those people behind the wheel of a car any day. We also need tougher driving laws. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 12:21 PM not owning a gun is a perfectly acceptable and responsible decision. However trying to lump all of us that hunted, enjoy shooting and have extensive training as myself and others as "gun nuts" or redneck budda's is not correct either. I am perfectly comfortable with firearms. I own an arsenal, trained police, military and gov agents in their use. I have fired every weapon from handgun to 50 cal fully auto machine guns all legally. I am no gun nut nor is gnu or anyone else here who likes shooting ... I also like pocket watches and fishing not all of us gun owners do drive by shooting ya know |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bill D Date: 14 Apr 12 - 12:06 PM "Let me take you and bill shooting with me. Next thing ya khow, you will be buying your own glock and poping holes in paper .. deal?" Don't bet on it...I had a gun once- in Kansas- a cheap .22 long barrel. Test fired it ONCE. It was stolen. Cops recovered it at a pawn shop, and told me I could get it back by paying the pawn shop for its trouble! I said that if they couldn't restore MY property, I think I don't need ANY guns. As I mentioned above, I believe that "going shooting" (that is, **playing** with guns and having 'fun' tends to make people think they NEED them around as toys. Training? You really think training will overcome the urge of idiots to 'play carelessly'? Or of criminals to STEAL weapons if they can't buy a car full at a gun show? Regulations...even if we craft perfect ones... are almost too late now. Too many illegal guns already out there. Still we need to try. Maybe GOOD regulations and GOOD enforcement will 'lower' the sad statistics in 40 years.... it sure won't stop the carnage. What I see in all the posts by you 'responsible' gun owners is the idea that "I am sensible and follow the rules, so laws have to cater to MY rights, even if the same laws make it easy for the criminals and the mentally disturbed to ignore the rules" Then you will say, "Well...if things are that bad, you'd best be glad that there ARE some responsible folk like us around...just in case 'something happens'. I rather suspect that more stuff 'happens' because so many people take extra chances when they think "I am armed, and can cope with problems." Hard to prove that...but... What do I think ought to be done? Sure... I have ideas. VERY heavy restrictions on sale of new weapons...and on all ammo. NO...I repeat...NONE.. of the assault weapons to be sold, and gradual reclaiming of all of them not controlled by law enforcement of the military. EVERY legal hand gun to be RE-registered and its owner to be vetted as having both skills and need to own hand guns! (yes..I know there are some who have such needs). NO huge gun shows... not just 'more rules' and fuzzy enforcement...no shows except for antiques and no ammo sold at shows. Then... really, really strong penalties for using a weapon in a crime, whether or not it was fired. Under my system, Zimmerman would never have gotten NEAR a Glock, except illegally.... he sure would not have had a permit! So... of course I know what chance those ideas have of being adopted... (take Bobert's $$$$ signs and triple them). And yes... IF any of my ideas were adopted in the future, some of the weapons current 'responsible' owners would have to be surrendered. I am trying to describe a system that would, if adopted, significantly reduce the carnage.... not a system that you 'like'. What to suggest that MIGHT actually be adopted? I hardly know. The NRA is committed to stopping ANY reform... and they have millions of adherents who 'think' they are competent and have a 'need'...and already have guns...and a bumper sticker that says "...pry it out of my cold, dead hands." Kinda hopeless looking, hmmmmm? *I* try to stay WAY away from situations where idiots & criminals might be... but I live in a metropolitan area where reports of holdups within a couple miles of me are more & more common. *I* might be able to buy a gun, train in its use, and "defend my property" in certain ways...that I have never experienced yet. But in my neighborhood there are many who could NOT be trusted to own & use a gun.... who simply don't have the capacity or mindset....and *I* can't do Zimmerman-like vigilante patrols at night to protect my neighbors. They, it appears, will simply be the targets if things get worse....as will I... because I'm not gonna join the "pistol-packin' daddy" club. Can you tell I am tired of the $$$$ fueled testosterone=guns problem today? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: saulgoldie Date: 14 Apr 12 - 07:51 AM Long time ago, somewhere about round 346 of this discussion, I read a piece about training and outlook towards guns. He said, "There is no such thing as a toy gun." Think about it...every cap pistol, every toy that looks like a 45 or a 357 magnum, every squirt gun, every stick pointed at someone, every hand in the shape of an "L" is a REAL gun. And if you point it at anyone, you can hurt them very badly. I think that the reality of it is that guns will, at least for the foreseeable future and the rest of many of our lives will be a presence. So acquiescing to that understanding, I think we should both train youngsters from the beginning of understanding in age-appropriate language the SAFE use of guns--point downrange, chamber empty, safety on, etc.--and instill in them the notion that that everything you point at someone IS THAT GUN. Of course that would not eliminate deaths from drunken fights, gangland encounters, garden variety robberies, or suicides. But it's a start. And something is better than nothing. Saul |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: open mike Date: 14 Apr 12 - 01:00 AM I just heard about an unidentified ATF agent in Alaska who has been asking gun shops for their sales records. These records are suposed to be made available in the case of a specific incident or investigation. The agent apparently got some shops to turn over their records, but another shop refused to...as this is not appropriate. http://www.guns.com/alaska-gun-shop-atf-strange-request-form-4473-7072.html There is a difference between sales records and registration records. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: open mike Date: 14 Apr 12 - 12:57 AM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 11:49 PM Ok here is the deal, Let me take you and bill shooting with me. Next thing ya khow, you will be buying your own glock and poping holes in paper .. deal? It is fun I am here to tell ya and safer then driving a car really |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 11:45 PM and bobster I think we gotta pass some regs on those guitars with the chevy hub cap on em .... (had to do that sorry can't stop laughing) ya old hillbilly you :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 11:36 PM LOL ok hillybilly I am partially right and you are partially right hows that? Even if you are wrong :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 11:31 PM LOL ok bobster BUTTTTT lets just say, more training and get rid of gun shows do we agree on that LOL Pigheaded hillybilly but I love ya tee hee |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bobert Date: 13 Apr 12 - 11:29 PM I don't understand why the NRA does what it does, gn-ze... There has been no push to ban guns, register guns,k force people to have safety training... Nothing, zero, nada, zip... The NRA gins up this phony crap every election... Sell$$$$$$$$$$$ gun$$$$$$$$$$$... That is what the NRA is about... Make no bone$$$$$$$$$$$$ about it... Thi$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$..... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: gnu Date: 13 Apr 12 - 11:20 PM "There was NO serious, major campaign by any organized group to ban all guns." True... they were just laying the groundwork. Do you read my posts? Do you really understand why the NRA does what it does? or do you just see them as a bunch of nut cases? *I* disagree with their policies but *I* understand WHY they do what they do. Apparently, few of you understand them and their policies AND WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY. The posts citing me as saying what I did not say are tedious and trying, to say the least. It's like talking to a gun. Guns can't think. People can... well, some can. Anyway... no matter. Crime will flourish as long as the gun nuts on both sides ignore the real reasons for gun related crime. And it's got two fifths of five eigths of fuck all to do with legal gun ownership. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bobert Date: 13 Apr 12 - 10:50 PM Yo, Ol'ster... Go back and reread your posts... You say that you agree with Bill and me but then there's the "but" word... That tells me that you don't agree with Bill or me, at all... Saul is correct... The NRA gins up this same old shit every election... There are no regs... Fuck this phony issue by the the NRA and the Republican Party... There are no regs... None... The NRA wins this one every time because of one reason: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.... Do we need 'um??? Ask the 100,000 people who will be shot this year... Please, ol'ster... No more NRA propaganda... Lets just agree to disagree but no more "I agree with ya'll but's..." B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Desert Dancer Date: 13 Apr 12 - 10:45 PM Speaking at the National Rifle Association's (NRA) annual conference today, Republican presidential hopeful Newt Gingrich advocated for extending the rights of the second amendment — which refer to the "right to bear arms" — beyond U.S. borders and, indeed, to the population of the entire world. -- ThinkProgress Oy. ~ Becky in Long Beach |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 10:44 PM and don't get me started on training ... there is such a lack of it anymore ... I was watching the amazing race. Two girls both FBI agents. One was talking how her friend helped her after she shot herself in the leg with her glock ... For God sakes, the first thing with that weapon .. never touch the f'in trigger while holstering it .. she should not be allowed to ever have a weapon again and she is an FBI agent ... yes we need to pass training laws but again the politicians won't grow the balls to pass sensible laws but want to ban a colt .380 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: saulgoldie Date: 13 Apr 12 - 10:41 PM Whatever we think or feel about "gun rights," the fact remains that a disproportionate amount of the public discourse is spent on it to the detriment of much more important issues like health care, education, the national infrastructure, the state of the military, and how and what we are going to pay for and how we are going to do it. The day to day implications of "gun rights" are vastly eclipsed by these other truly *important* issues. Although it does make for fun barroom conversations. 'Spcially when it's half-price night in an "open carry" state. WaHOOwah! Saul |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 10:35 PM and guys like him that want to sponsor such a bill like I described on the ammo are what gnu and I would call anti gun nuts .. because they understand nothing and do nothing to make folks safer. Talk to law enforment, they will give you ideas on what regs we need and to a man they will say "gun shows" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 10:33 PM I agree with you two completely. But here is something that drove me nuts. Charles Shummer from NY started a bill a few years back to "put a serial number on every bullet so we can trace who bought them" That is the dumbest thing I ever heard. First of all bullets fragment, the US has stockpiles of ammo in damn near every house, and every shooter makes his own. A bill that serves nothing helps nothing protect nothing. But try to get the guy to sponsor a bill to stop illegal gun trade at gun shows .. no one wants to talk about that, NRA will come after them. grow some ball and do things right I say to the politicians and you will see the death rate decline. It is not shooter or sportsman that is killing people , doing drive by shooting. Where do those guys get their weapons .. gun shows |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bobert Date: 13 Apr 12 - 10:26 PM Sad commentary, Bill... The NRA wrote every "stand your ground" law in America because they knew it would be big $$$ for them and their members... Meanwhile, arts and crafts people get pushed aside to accommodate the NRA's agenda... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 10:23 PM I think we are talking about the same thing Bill, I agree with you. My point is they keep passing useless laws and walk away from laws that would make us safer and would make sense. A federal conceal carry law instead of this hap hazard state by state ordeal. The gun show insanity ... The law abiding person is not shooting people. The drug gangs and other criminals are ... what we need to do it make it harder for them to get firearms. shutting down the gun show loophole would go a long way. Banning a colt .380 would not in any manner help since there are 1000 other guns even more concealable .. see what I am saying or are you guys missing my point. I am not for the NRA at all I only agree that they say no to every law because so many meaningless ones have been passed, now they fight everything including those that would make sense |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bill D Date: 13 Apr 12 - 10:14 PM 2 minutes drive from me there is a gun store where purchases are scrutinized carefully. One hours drive from me is a convention center where my usual woodworking show was cancelled this year because a major GUN SHOW offered them much more money...... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bobert Date: 13 Apr 12 - 10:08 PM Exactly, Bill... To anyone who thinks that there are restrictions on guns in any way, manner or form consider this... If Charles Manson had made parole this week he could have backed up a U-Haul truck to a gun show in Richmond, Va. and filled it up with AK47s, all the ammo he wanted and... ... a step-by-step instruction book on how to make them fully automatic... BTW, 5 cops were shot today... BTW, 100,000 other Americans will get shot this year... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bill D Date: 13 Apr 12 - 09:51 PM I MUST take issue with gnu and olddude and agree with Bobert. Of course there are always those who want to "get rid of" all guns. But we all knew that was not gonna happen. There was NO serious, major campaign by any organized group to ban all guns. No one "went nuts" except the Wayne LaPierre's of the country. They adopted the "slippery slope" argument, claiming that 'if we let them limit THIS, they'll soon be back for THAT'. I must assume that many of them actually believe that, but many simply see it as a clever approach. As I type, Rachael Maddow's show is listing dozens of gun deaths occurring all over the country this week, as well as all the gun deaths that happened in St. Louis the last few days as the NRA was meeting downtown. (I believe it will be available online soon). When you treat it as an abstract set of statistics, it just becomes another list.... but when you hear each one described in detail, as people who should never have guns to begin with strap on an arsenal and go "get even" or "avenge" something...or just rob a bank and shoot anyone in the way. I find it disingenuous to lay the current problem at the feet of ANTI-gun nuts! Some of you have noted the problem with gun shows, where few restrictions are enforced and guns in bulk are purchased by anyone with $$$$.......but are any of you who want to retain the right to own firearms doing ANYTHING to help educate or make sense of the lax laws that keep the horrible headlines going? How many more bodies will it take before the majority decide to BECOME anti-gun nuts and write laws that could have been avoided? My friends, the "slippery slope" argument, flawed though it is, works both ways! *IF* gun violence keeps mounting and the list of dead kids & cops gets too long, there WILL be a push back... and it will not be pretty! I firmly believe that owning and 'playing with' firearms (the stuff beyond hunting) helps advance the mystique and create the IDEA that "it's ok if we keep guns out of the hands of kids & criminals"....ignoring the fact that IF hundreds of millions of guns are available, we cannot keep them from the wrong people! What will you do...this year... to begin to ease the situation? I am finding out which legislators are 'owned' by the NRA. (In my area, most of them are fairly reasonable... but some of you live where a letter writing campaign could DO something! Statistics say that while I typed this..(20 minutes) many people were injured and several killed by stupid use of guns! I am tired of that truth going on all day long...every day! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bobert Date: 13 Apr 12 - 09:49 PM Well, gn-ze... Never happened here in the US of A... BTW, ya'll have sane regs... We have virtually no regs... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: gnu Date: 13 Apr 12 - 09:46 PM Bobert... "Reasonable regulations isn't anti-gun..." I thought I made that clear. What I protest is the anti gun nuts who want all guns gone. When did that happen you ask, Bobert? Started on December 6, 1989 here in Canada. It was horrible. 14 women dead at the hand of Marc Lepine. The "Montreal Massacre". He gunned 14 innocent women down because he was, well, nuts. The gun laws that resulted from that terrible day are good for the most part. But, some of those laws are NOT good and they abet criminals. Okay. This has been done many times before, as I said before so i will summrize and leave. I disagree with the NRA but I understand why they do what they do. I diagree with scrapping our gun registry but I understnd why Steven Harper is doing it. Zero tolerance of the anti gun nuts because they have zero tolerance for and zero knowledge of guns and the people who legally own them and use them for legal purposes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 09:44 PM Exactly my brother, see that is what's needed not this other meaningless shit ... I think the powers in charge think if they pass a meaningless law that protects no one they can tell their voters they are with them, and then tell the NRA that what's the problem ... playing both sides i think ... forget the NRA , pass laws that make us safer and not the useless shit |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bobert Date: 13 Apr 12 - 09:34 PM Who cares about ammo??? I think we need to sell lots of guns but make ammo illegal... lol... Seriously, the real regs should include gun safety training requirement to own a gun and to register your guns... Big deal... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bobert Date: 13 Apr 12 - 09:29 PM BTW, 100,000 Americans were shot last year... This is out of control and the NRA is loving it... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 09:29 PM my point my brother is I complete agree with you on reasonable regulations. I am 100% with ya. But for example passing a law to ban the black talon ammo but allow the hydro-shock .. is insane. The black talon was the hydro-shock with a coat of black paint on them .. you see, they have to think through their law process and they don't. Yet things we really need addressed like that "gun show stuff" continues ... I want to see real things addressed not the smoke and mirrors stuff. So the NRA says you guys don't know what you are doing and then go after all laws even ones that make sense ... both of them are dead wrong ... that is why I left the NRA |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bobert Date: 13 Apr 12 - 09:19 PM Those aren't anti-gun, ol'ster... That's called regulation... We regulate every thing else... It's no unreasonable to regulate who owns guns... I mean, if you can't shoot straight then you shouldn't own a f'n gun... Here in NC a guy, trying to shoot someone else, shot and killed his own father... Reasonable regulations isn't anti-gun... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 09:14 PM back in the 1980's they passed some law about Saturday night cheap conceal carry gun or put pressure on the gun manufacturers can't remember if it was a law or just pressure. Anyway the put the colt .380 government model on the list and colt stop making them. Why , because it was easy to conceal ... how does that make sense. The colt .380 is one of the backup firearms every cop wishes he had. I own one. And it ain't cheap by any means (expensive gun) but it is no more concealable then any other small handgun so why was it singled out .. who the hell knows. It is stuff like this that makes no sense. They need to pass well thought out laws not knee jerk ones ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 09:06 PM Actually Bobster Gnu is right. They tried to pass laws to register ammo without understanding the serious shooter like myself load our own. Successfully got certain type of ammo like the black talon off the market (black talon is just a hollow point with a scary name) like the billion others no more dangerous then any other bullet and does not go through kelvar vests .. They tried to ban semi auto shotguns that every duck hunter on the planet likes to use .. so yea they did try a lot of stuff that didn't make sense ... however, digging their heels in on the gun shows makes no sense to any sportsman I think. So their approach is no law .. it is all nuts actually. Why don't the politician simply ask the sportsman to educated them before passing another law that makes no one safer. There are plenty of laws that we need that do make sense ... don't get it |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bobert Date: 13 Apr 12 - 08:50 PM I don't remember the anti-gun folks going apeshit... When did this happen, gn-ze??? Maybe I missed it??? Nah... It never happened... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 08:44 PM Gnu is probably right, they then decided to go on the offense and oppose every gun law regardless ... but they would gain more memebers and more respect if they migrated back to the sportsman and said yes to the laws that make sense "like gun show restrictions" but like the republican party of late, they ain't my daddy's organization anymore |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: gnu Date: 13 Apr 12 - 08:40 PM Why did the NRA go apeshit? It's very simple. The anti-gun nuts went apeshit and demanded "no guns" so the NRA decided to oppose EVERY SINGLE piece of proposed legislation as a matter of course in their own defence. It ain't rocket science. When an "opponent" says they are gonna take you out you do what you have to to defend yourself. The NRA was, as Dan says, a great organization that promoted gun safety and so on... but, when faced with a bunch of anti gun nuts who were illogical and wanted to take their LEGAL guns away, they assessed their position and decided the only way to fight these assholes was a zero tolerance response. I may not agree (my memberships have lapsed too) but I understand. Seriously, to say the NRA has gone "nuts" is to disregard their obviously expected response to the real "nuts". If the anti gun nuts were reasonable and logical, I believe the NRA could be their allies but the anti gun nuts are just plain illogical, have little knowledge of the many situations of gun ownership and so on and so on as has been said on threads in the Mudcat soooo many times before... they just don't understand and they just don't listen. They hide behind vague statistics with vague correlations and speak with emotions rather than facts and logic and make unreasonable demands upon legal and resposible gun owners based on spreading fear and lies. They know nothing about living in the backwoods. I am gonna stop now. It's all been said and done so many times. Fact is, I applaud Canada's gun laws even tho I disagree with some of them. I am appalled by the lack of such gun laws in the US. BUT, I am TRULY appalled by the gun laws proposed by the anti gun nuts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bobert Date: 13 Apr 12 - 08:29 PM This is not your grand dad's NRA... This NRA wants more people murdered because... ...it sells more guns... I, too, learned gun safety from the NRA... I was in an NRA shoot club when I was a youngin'... No one ever talked politics... No one... Screw the NRA... They contribute to the violence in my country in a big, big way... Their bullshit makes everyone less safe... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 08:15 PM they use to have meetings, show kids how to call a turkey during spring gobbler season, run skeet shooting events ... everything was about the sportsman .. Handguns, they use to talk that the sheriff and judge decide who can get a permit and who shouldn't. They left that stuff alone ... now everything they were they are no longer in my opinion so I have nothing to do with them |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 08:05 PM Mcgrath In the 60's and 70's the NRA was all about sportsmen, it was about conservation, about gun safety and nothing but good stuff. I was a member then. It was safe hunting, target shooting, wetland conservation. It was a fine organization. Then something happened, they went nuts in my opinion, the dug in their heels in and decided that no gun law was any good ... that is when I left holding my nose. I don't know what happened to that organization. They use to be very good, now they all went mad for some reason. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 13 Apr 12 - 06:43 PM What puzzles me from a distance is why your NRA appears to be so opposed to what sound like very sensible gun controls which would be very much in the interests of any sensible gun owner. It's as if our Automobile Association was dedicated to abolishing all speed limits and opposed to driving tests and driving licences. I'd have thought that an organisation representing gun owners would be leading advocates for stuff like that. The logical conclusion from the slogan "guns don't kill people - people kill people" ought surely to be to do eveything possible to stop guns getting into the hands of people who can't be trusted to use them responsibly. |
