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BS: Discrimination against Roma
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Subject: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Richard Bridge Date: 03 Apr 12 - 06:00 AM http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/roma-shown-to-be-europes-poorest-and-most-reviled-people-7609052.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: foggers Date: 03 Apr 12 - 10:44 AM That is a sobering read Richard; racism is unfortunately live and kicking in Europe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Bill D Date: 03 Apr 12 - 11:15 AM THE TERROR TIME (Ewan MacColl) The heather will fade and the bracken will die Streams will run cold and clear And the small birds will be going, and it's then you will be knowing That the terror time is near. Whaur will ye gan an' whaur will ye bide Noo that the work's a' done And the fairmer disnae need ye, and the cooncils winnae heed ye And the terror time is come? The woods give no shelter and the trees they are bare Snow is falling all around And the children they are crying, for the bed on which they're lying Is frozen to the ground When you need the warmth of your own human kind You move near a town and then The sight o' you's offending, an' the police they soon are sending An' you're on the road again. Whaur will ye gan an' whaur will ye bide Noo that the work's a' done And the fairmer disnae need ye, and the cooncils winnae heed ye And the terror time is come? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: GUEST,Bluesman Date: 03 Apr 12 - 11:28 AM Richard, read the comment on your link from "omendata" saves me the bother of writing a comment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 Apr 12 - 11:38 AM The remarks in the article convey the very challenge they face, ingrained cultural discrimination. Anecdotal stories taken as fact. Let's see some credible statistics, not the whining of bigots. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: GUEST,Bluesman Date: 03 Apr 12 - 11:43 AM I only hope article is true ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 Apr 12 - 11:56 AM So you agree with this assessment? Dezideriu Gergely, executive director of the European Roma Rights Centre in Budapest, said: "Whereas previously only marginal far-right groups would stand on anti-Roma platforms, now more mainstream politicians are playing this card." He added that the European Commission has recently encouraged all EU member states to draw up 10-year strategies for the integration of their Roma communities, but that "legislation alone is not enough". SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: GUEST,Bluesman Date: 03 Apr 12 - 12:19 PM No ! I mean I hope they are getting it tight, according to the local press here in Medway, they had it off with three caravans and two summer seats from a home used for holidays for residents of O.A.P. homes in the area. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: jacqui.c Date: 03 Apr 12 - 12:56 PM they had it off with three caravans and two summer seats from a home used for holidays for residents of O.A.P. homes in the area. And they were definitely identified as Roma and not any of the other types of travelers who might be in the area? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: greg stephens Date: 03 Apr 12 - 01:18 PM Having it off with caravans? The things these chaps get up to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 03 Apr 12 - 01:30 PM Seems the bigotry isn't limited to Europe, eh Bluesman? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Jim Carroll Date: 03 Apr 12 - 01:51 PM "not any of the other types of travelers who might be in the area? " Or even non-Travellers - perish the thought!! Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Jack Campin Date: 03 Apr 12 - 04:05 PM The Daily Mail |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Jim Carroll Date: 03 Apr 12 - 04:08 PM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuf6C3SHW_8 Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Jim Carroll Date: 03 Apr 12 - 04:10 PM Whoops - premature ejaculation "according to the local press here in Medway" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuf6C3SHW_8 Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Jim Carroll Date: 03 Apr 12 - 04:19 PM Sound's like nicking a bit of lead off the roof is pretty small time in Medway (whoops - just wrote Merdeway - Freudan slip maybe!) - waddya say Bluesie? Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Megan L Date: 03 Apr 12 - 04:36 PM You will find good and bad in all communities. My mum used to say "Do not judge the coat a man wears Judge the man inside the coat." For example The University of Leicester have become concerned about the number of ex soldiers who are in prison a number of them for rape. Would it therefore be sensible to say all ex military are criminals and rapists? Of course not nor is it sensible to condem everyone because of race creed colour age sex or sexuality. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 03 Apr 12 - 07:13 PM Nor is it sensible to see no difference between Roma (a genuine gypsy heritage and traveling culture), and Romanians (Rumanians), who are simply inhabitants of that country known as Romania (Rumania), who may, or may not be neither gypsy Roma, nor travelers. You ought to be ashamed if you don't recognise the difference, apart from Bluesman who is always blinded by his own bigotry, and quite beyond feeling shame. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Jack Campin Date: 03 Apr 12 - 07:30 PM What a typical Daily Mail reader thinks |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: ChanteyLass Date: 03 Apr 12 - 11:18 PM From the link posted by Richard Bridge in his first post: The social and economic exclusion of Roma communities sometimes pushes them into criminal lifestyles. In France, President Nicolas Sarkozy has called Roma "a source of criminality" and encouraged the deportation of Roma to Romania, while in Bulgaria Roma have been attacked in several cities over the past year. Sarkozy and others need to reread Les Miserables. Jean Valjean was a native of France but became a criminal when he stole a loaf of bread for his family. Those who are poor, marginalized, and discriminated against have my sympathy, and I am continuously grateful that I do not have to resort to crime to survive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Jim Carroll Date: 04 Apr 12 - 04:07 AM "all amount up to the same thing...." Know what you mean; I feel exactly the same about racist bigots - though I'm sure there are some very nice Medwegians. "I could go on." You could - and you have - not a pretty sight. Jim Carroll Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Musket Date: 04 Apr 12 - 05:01 AM Whilst not wishing to give Bluesman and his ilk the oxygen of agreement here, one thing does occur to me; Most of the people saying you can't judge a set of people by the actions of some which has given the reputation to many.... How do the same people decry stereotyping romany but say that all Tories are pigs in trough bastards? I'm not a Tory, I wasn't even once a one nation Tory for that matter, but I do smile at the idea that Tories, bankers, politicians in general, anybody who earns a bob or two more than you etc etc can be put in a convenient box with a label but we can't say the same about travellers, despite similar evidence to stereotype? Either people are people OR Tories are bastards and travellers are pikey thieves. To differentiate according to your own prejudice is not the answer I'm afraid. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Jack Campin Date: 04 Apr 12 - 05:19 AM You choose to be a Tory. You don't get to choose to be descended from refugees. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Musket Date: 04 Apr 12 - 05:37 AM You don't choose to be descended from any social status. I doubt my outlook on life would be exactly the same if I were born to different circumstances. Fail to see how that excuses the overall stereotyping Jack? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Jim Carroll Date: 04 Apr 12 - 05:41 AM "Hitler ain't dead" - he's just moved to Weson-super-Mare - see below. "You choose to be a Tory." Wot Jack just said; worth remembering that Thatcher and the mass murderer Pinochet were friends and that she helped him dodge being tried for torturing and massacring and "disappearing" unknown thousands of protesters Probably no point in putting her on trial for aiding and abetting But let us not forget... Jim Carroll NEWSPAPER ACCUSED OF STOKING GYPSY FEAR Simon de Bruxelles A newspaper faces prosecu¬tion after complaints that a billboard incited racial hatred of gypsies. The poster advertising the Weston Mercury, a local weekly in Weston-super-Mare, read: "Gypsies could be on your door-step". The advert was investi¬gated by Avon and Somer¬set police after complaints and a file has been passed to the Crown Prosecution Service, which will decide whether to prosecute. The newspaper has print¬ed an apology and with¬drawn the bill, which appeared outside shops in its circulation area. Tom Leimdorfer, a Green Party councillor, was among those who com¬plained to the police. He tore the bill down when he saw it outside a newsagent's near his home in Congresbury. He said: "I was horrified when I saw it. It was clearly inflammatory. If the head¬line had been about black people or Muslims it would quite clearly not have been acceptable. So why should this be any different?" The billboard related to a front-page story on March 22 that reported plans for a travellers' site on the outskirts of Weston-super-Mare. The head¬line on the story read: "Gypsy camps right next door to new homes", which has not prompted any complaints. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Jim Carroll Date: 04 Apr 12 - 05:48 AM Ian By supporting the Tories people choose to support the party that continues to persecute and neglect a specific cultural group. Nobody I know castigates anybody for voting Tory, just those at the helm who have sunk the 'SS Britain' with their greed, mismanagement, inhumanity, indiffierence and utter incompetence, which includes, in your own words, "bankers and politicians in general". Do you ever watch 'Question Time', which sadly has degenerated into a soapbox for such people? Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: GUEST,Bluesman Date: 04 Apr 12 - 05:52 AM When posters like Christmas can't face the truth or provide an answer, they turn to one of three words, Thatcher, Hitler or Fascist. Get a life. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Van Date: 04 Apr 12 - 06:09 AM The plaques were stolen. Where does it say that they were stolen by Roma or even travellers? I have a friend who is Roma from Czech. Coloured and very concious of people's prejudices against her on both counts. I also know her family and if it were possible I would take you to their homes which I would am sure are much more pleasant than the the stone you crawl out from under in order to spew your bile on the those of us who enjoy a civilised discussion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Jim Carroll Date: 04 Apr 12 - 06:17 AM "When posters like Christmas...." Your imagination doesn't even extend to making up your own name for me - your fellow-traveller (whoops - sorry) Terpitude will be annoyed. BTW - my opinions on Travellers are based totally on nearly forty years spent in their company - much of it recorded, archived, soemtimes published and open to the general public - where did yours come from Mein Kampf maybe? Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 04 Apr 12 - 06:19 AM You don't do Tory voters any favours Bluesman, because it's loud mouthed bigots like you that get the moderates among our number tarred with the same brush by other bigots on the opposing team. Do us all a favour and STFU> Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Jim Carroll Date: 04 Apr 12 - 06:40 AM I take it that your lack of response to my question that your experience of Travellers probably does come from Mein Kampf. A reminder of the people we are talking about here from - The Times during the Dale farm protests Jim Carroll 1,000 years of prejudice, hatred and distrust There are few tales that begin in the Indian sub-continent and Irish marshlands during the first millennium after the birth of Christ and reach Basildon in Essex 1,000 years later. In between there are travels through eastern Europe, Irish famines and Nazi killing camps. Then there are the prejudices, the disputes and the clashing of communities. The history of the 300,000-strong travelling communities, now encamped on 8,000-plus pitches in England, is complex. First, there are the groupings: the Roma, who are believed to have emerged from Asia 1,000 years ago and to have split into the Romany of western Europe, the Domari of the Middle East and Eastern Europe and the Lomavren of Central Europe. The Irish Travellers refer to themselves as Pavees and share a common language, Shelta. A study earlier this year provided DNA evidence that it is a distinct ethnic minority, which separated from the settled Irish community between 1,000 and 2,000 years ago. Previously, it was believed that they were landowners who took to the road during the Great Famine. In 2000, they were ruled to be a distinct ethnic group, while Gypsies gained this status in 1976. Then there are the New Age travellers whose crusty roots lie in the hippy culture of the mid-20th century. One can also throw in a sprinkling of Scottish Travellers, with their own musical and linguistic traditions dating back to the 12th century, and the Travelling Showpeople who have entertained generations with their fairgrounds and circuses. Gypsies were one of the ethnic groups targeted by the Nazis. At least 250,000 were killed in the Holocaust. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: GUEST,Patsy Date: 04 Apr 12 - 07:41 AM Discrimination against anyone is abhorent but I suspect that they generally know the distrust and superstition that non-gypsies have towards them, by keeping the myth alive in a way can work in their favour. Seeing it from the gypsy point of view if that is how distrusting non-gypsies are going to see them then hopefully they will be ;ess likely to come by and intrude. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Musket Date: 04 Apr 12 - 08:02 AM Jim, whilst not of that ilk, I fail to see that giving broad support to the Tory party is any different to giving broad support to any other party. It doesn't make you a supporter of divisive bigotry any more than those of the travellers who stole from me makes all travellers bad. My comments were about general double standards where people on these threads can make broad assumptions about anybody who doesn't agree with them politically but refuses to accept that travellers have a reputation, regardless of how many deserve to be seen as such. No difference, no difference whatsoever. It isn't a matter of Tory by choice, traveller by circumstance. A neighbour of mine was born of Irish travellers and lived on the road till he was 16, then got off his arse and said he wanted to be part of what society had to offer, and never looked back. Likewise, no matter what a government does, no matter what a government falls at, my ex father in law shall always vote Labour and my father in law shall always vote conservative. One isn't a flat cap with his whippet and the other isn't a pig in the trough. In fact, both are respectable private people, but methinks would be pre judged by some on this thread whilst the same people would refuse point blank to pre judge a traveller. You can't be sanctimonious and love being so unless and until you are consistent. If it is ok to judge somebody by his or her political colours, profession or bank balance, why isn't it ok to judge a section of (at the side of) society based on personal experience? Either neither are beyond the pail or, as I suspect, both are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: nickp Date: 04 Apr 12 - 09:16 AM Saved out of curiosity from several years ago: "The plight of the Pirese - Europe's most hated people: An opinion poll taken in Hungary showed that Pirese refugees are more hated than any other group. Even those who admitted to disliking Arabs, Chinese and Romanians, said the Pirese were worse. The group who are statistically most likely to have the strongest feelings are elderly, far-left women from northern Hungary. It's widely believed the Pirese mix their beer with blood, have the evil eye and are hideously ugly. And of course they don't exist. They were made up by a research institute to test the level of xenophobia in Hungary. High apparently. BBC Europe editor Mark Mardell" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: Jim Carroll Date: 04 Apr 12 - 09:37 AM "you can not make your hate for British ex servicemen any clearer." Whaaaaat ????? Are the servicemen persecuting Travellers now? You appear to be running out of anti-Traveller invective and have now embarked on another nonsensical tack Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Discrimination against Roma From: meself Date: 04 Apr 12 - 09:52 AM I like Christmas - always have. I sure hope those Muslims/Gypsies/travellers/Blacks-in-hoodies/poor-people don't take it away from us! |