She Shanties in Hull

Subject: She Shanties in Hull
From: Michael
Date: 18 Apr 12 - 04:23 PM

The women's shanty crew 'She Shanties' are performing at Ruscadors, Queen Street in Hull on Saturday 28th April at 7.30 pm.Tickets £6 and £4 (concs).

For more info go to sheshanties

Mike

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 18 Apr 12 - 08:45 PM

bit far for me to get there!

thanks for the link, I enjoyed listening to them

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: Michael
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 04:32 AM

Hooray and up she rises.
Mike

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 08:48 AM

Lots of energy and harmony. I listened to "Fire Marengo" via the above link. Be nice to get a chance to see them some time.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: Dead Horse
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 09:11 PM

Folky.
I am sure they could perform a decent shanty if only they put their minds to it.
I was not impressed with what I heard from that site.

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: KHNic
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 04:34 PM

I must need new specs. Read this as Sea Shanties in Hell.

Nice stuff on the link, though. All the best for the gig.

Yours, going to Specsavers.

Nic

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 07:23 PM

[Thread drift (sorry):]

I wonder why we don't (can't?) have more large shanty groups like this in North America. Seems like they sprout up a lot in U.K., whereas America has individual singers, duos, trios...

I have "theories" but I'd much rather hear what others have to say.

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: Dead Horse
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 02:01 PM

GS, do you want quality or quantity?

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 04:45 PM

Dead Horse,

My question of "..why don't we have?" is nor a rhetorical way of saying "I want this." I'm am actually asking the question. This is independent of the quality of the group; question is of size, and it is not a judgement over what size is better or worse.

Wondering why American performers tend to be small and UK groups tend to be larger.

I suspect there just isn't enough interest in shanties in America. Sure, people get together to sing, but that total mass wouldn't form a performing group (who would they perform for)?

Maybe it *is* an issue of quality, as Dead Horse suggests -- because we might have lots of people at a singing session, but hey all would not be deemed good enough (by whomever) to form an official group.

Maybe "we" don't like the sound of a load of mediocre voices mucking up the song. (?)

I tend to think it is the interest thing. There are simply many more people interested in shanties in a *casual* way in UK. Perhaps also there is a greater sense that it is "everyone's" (everyone from certain peoples/classes, that is) "right" to sing, so they are less shy about doing so. I'd guess the greater interest in seafaring culture (i.e. greater than America's many coastal areas), due to the way it has figured into national identity, helps the interest. Many Americans, too, feel that when they are performing shanties, they are to some extent "acting British/Irish"--and may not be interested in that, whereas UK'ers may feel like they are acting as themselves.

Other ideas?

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 04:57 PM

Okay so chanties are essentially chorus songs. It helps if you can take your own built in crew around with you, especially if you're performing to a non-participatory audience. I prefer a group of about 4 myself.

This is only a guess but on the continent they have the large shanty groups, and there are also the Fishermen's Choirs who largely sing hymns. Either of these could have given rise to the idea in the UK.

I'm not aware of that many. There's The Shanty Crew I think and The Shellback Chorus, and then that group of fishermen who got that big recording contract. Can't think of any more.

I'd have thought there'd be at least one at Mystic.

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 05:10 PM

Indeed, Steve, they are chorus songs -- so why don't we have more choruses in U.S.? Or at least "crews" to back up the singer?

Even a group of 4 is larger than most American aggregations (our good Charley Noble's not included!). By group, I suppose I mean 4 or more, in which cases there are many in the UK.

Look at this year's Mystic line-up -- which of course is not limited to chanty singers -- but in any case I can't recall seeing any/many groups.

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: stallion
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 05:15 PM

There are several reasons why this may not be so, we (2BS&S) have been over to the States three times, one of my first observations was that there is a line of competence one has to get over, almost like a pair of scales, cross the line and everyone likes you and if you don't nobody likes you. In the uk we have what I call the "Eddie the Eagle" mentality, where barely competent people are praised for their effort rather than the performance which doesn't wash in the US. Also the cash seems more important and dividing the pot by three is better than dividing it by twelve.

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: stallion
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 05:18 PM

Oh and we would love to do Mystic again, drat there are only three of us! How about it Geoff?

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 06:13 PM

To state a personal preference: I am roughly with Steve, in preferring (purely aesthetically, no judgement on others involved) a group of 4 or a few more.
Maybe that makes the issue more dicey -- Can't we muster up at least 4 souls in the U.S.?

On the other hand -- perhaps to compensate? -- many American performers will use instruments, that fill out the sound. Perhaps this puts them more into a "folk" vein. Or, as stallion said, just more of a commercial vein. To earn one's way as a performer, one must generally present instruments ("music") to audiences, otherwise what you have looks to them (American audiences?) as an *amateur* "community choir".

To state another, entirely personal preference with no bearing on anything: I think I tend to prefer the way Americans (generally speaking) sing as individual chantymen, but I prefer the UK groups and what they do.

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: stallion
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 04:59 AM

Something that has crossed my mind is that in the US there is no pub culture where groups of people congregated and singing was part of the merriment, few people could afford instruments so they were never so important. It is interesting to see how "Fisherman's Friends" started, apparently the pub was full one evening so they had to stand outside for a drink and a sing, a crowd of about twenty gathered and applauded every song and like Topsy it grew. We (2BS&S) had been singing in the same Friday night session for a number of years before someone suggested we might like to rehearse a few songs and sing at a festival, thanks Roland. The Malton FF singaround last Saturday was a typical example as is the Portsmouth (NH) Shanty sing at the press room, where voices come together and are far greater than the sum of their parts, the king of all, of course is the German Beer hall (?) at Mystic, now that is what I call a lifetime experience! It should be on everyone's "To Do" list. We still talk about it three years after!
Peter

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: Hoblander
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 03:02 PM

Addressing Steve's point, in the UK, Marske Fishermen's Choir is still going strong after 40 years and they seem to bridge the styles with shanties, hymns and popular songs and combined it with raising money for charity. Filey still has a fishermen's choir and Staithes Fishermen's choir was replaced with Men of Staithes. Just up the coast from you Steve.
There were more fishermen's choirs further up the coast around Holy Island and Seahouses, but I don't know if they are still in existance.
Don't forget Benny Graham's Tynside Maritime Chorus is still going.
Just googled "fishermen's choir" and the results are dominated by Marke and Filey and Polperro
Some of the fisherman's hymns a brilliant poignant songs.
Kevin

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 03:11 PM

I've not heard Benny's choir, Kevin, but Pegleg Ferret are awesome. We had them at the Waterways Museum last year and I hadn't heard them for years and they blew me away. How many has he got in the choir?

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 03:09 PM

Gibb-

The only large sea music group (16-20) I know of here in the States that tour is Shifty Sailors from Whidbey Island, Washington. There may be other groups but they don't travel beyond their home community. Given the complexity of working and traveling with a large group like that one, I'm not surprised that they are so rare.

My own group Roll & Go has five members but we never travel more than a day from our home state. It's just too much stress on our aged bones, not to mention other family members.

Mystic of course has been encouraging young people to perform by booking the Chanteens for the last few years, but they are also locally recruited and trained.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: Dead Horse
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 06:47 PM

I would postulate that are not that many shanty singers to be found more than say 50 miles from the sea, and Britain is an island.
The pub culture is certainly a factor, but I disagree with the thinking behind shanty singing as being British and not American.
It is interesting that shanty choirs are predominant in Europe, and some of them are very good -a couple from Poland that I could name but could not possibly spell :-)

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: stallion
Date: 25 Apr 12 - 03:23 AM

Something else's has struck me about "Fisherman's Friends", the music producer who "discovered" them writes material for them, for example the "Rogues" song. Struck me that it was a handy money making venture for him. FF whom I have met and talked to do not come over a anything more than a few blokes that get together for a drink and a sing and boy can they drink! Chapel has a big influence on their style of singing and most have had experience of singing in choirs, I got the impression, although it is only my opinion based on a couple of hours in their company, that they would like to distance themselves from the trad folk tag and emphasise the choir description. The Filey Fishermans choir only sing hymns or religious songs can't speak for the rest, I had a recording of the Staithes fisherman recorded in Staithes (1990) on a portable cassette recorder, they had a mixture of songs some hymns and some fishing songs.

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: BillE
Date: 25 Apr 12 - 04:42 AM

I have 3 cassette tapes of the Staithes choir. They contain a good mixture of hymns (eg Pull for The Shore, lots of Moody and Sankey etc) together with shanties and other 'sea' songs (eg Three Score & Ten, Rio Grande, etc - even Captain Cook).

A few years ago we went to a joint session of the Staithes and Filey choirs at one of their two annual joint meetings. It was held in a Chapel in Staithes and produced some wonderful singing. At that time the two choirs held two joint sessions each year, Easter in Staithes and August Bank Holiday (I think) in Filey. I hope they still do...

Bill

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: Hoblander
Date: 25 Apr 12 - 11:11 AM

Steve go to Benny Graham's web site and there is a page for the Maritime chorus, about 16 of them from the photos.
www.bennygraham.com
cheers
Kevin

Subject: RE: She Shanties in Hull
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 10:22 AM

Thanks, Kevin.

Hoping to go tonight. Looking forward to it.