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Converting MP3 to WAV - Quality lost?

Maryrrf 24 Apr 12 - 10:38 AM
GUEST,mando-player-91 24 Apr 12 - 10:44 AM
GUEST,Hookey Wole 24 Apr 12 - 10:48 AM
GUEST,Hookey Wole 24 Apr 12 - 11:08 AM
Maryrrf 24 Apr 12 - 01:20 PM
Bonzo3legs 24 Apr 12 - 01:25 PM
GUEST,Hookey Wole 24 Apr 12 - 01:28 PM
GUEST,999 24 Apr 12 - 01:45 PM
Artful Codger 24 Apr 12 - 02:23 PM
Arkie 24 Apr 12 - 02:44 PM
treewind 24 Apr 12 - 02:46 PM
treewind 24 Apr 12 - 02:59 PM
Arkie 24 Apr 12 - 03:00 PM
GUEST,Grishka 24 Apr 12 - 03:14 PM
Maryrrf 24 Apr 12 - 04:18 PM
GUEST,Grishka 27 Apr 12 - 08:21 AM
Bernard 27 Apr 12 - 10:24 AM
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Subject: Converting MP3 to WAV - Quality lost?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 10:38 AM

A friend is sending me some MP3 song files to burn onto a CD. Usually when I burn a CD I do it with WAV files because in the past I've had trouble playing MP3's on some CD players. So, my question - would there be any loss of quality in converting the files to WAV?

Thanks!


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Subject: RE: Converting MP3 to WAV - Quality lost?
From: GUEST,mando-player-91
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 10:44 AM

There shouldn't be, unless you are using a trial version of the converter you are using,then you might get cut offs and a automated voice cutting in.


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Subject: RE: Converting MP3 to WAV - Quality lost?
From: GUEST,Hookey Wole
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 10:48 AM

Debatable...

Converting lossy mp3 to Wav most probably not.

[some audiophile tech experts may argue an infinitesimally small quality loss
due to conversion process ???]


But reconverting the new wavs back to mp3 absolutely yes, even more audio quality will most definitely be lost.


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Subject: RE: Converting MP3 to WAV - Quality lost?
From: GUEST,Hookey Wole
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 11:08 AM

In real world context....

This is a major concern of 'unofficial' music sharing networks.
Lossy sources and conversions are severely frowned upon for diluting
the audio quality of highly regarded collectable live performances.

ie, taper of carefully recorded gig converts audio to wav & burns CD for free distribution to music lovers network.

At some point further in the chain an individual rips the CD to lossy MP3 for convenience.
later on that individual reconverts the mp3s to wav and burns a much diminished audio quality audio CD to pass on and share..

..and so it goes on, each lossy conversion / reconversion further down the line continuing to diminish audio quality.


Smug self-opinionated misguided Blog 'lectures' from the likes of Tom Sweeney don't exactly help...


https://pourdownlikesilver.wordpress.com/2010/09/05/tapers-a-rant/#respond

"Tapers: A Rant

I do not understand tapers that get upset about people using mp3......"


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Subject: RE: Converting MP3 to WAV - Quality lost?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 01:20 PM

Just to clarify I'm not ripping anybody off or downloading illegally, just helping a friend with a project involving his own songs.


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Subject: RE: Converting MP3 to WAV - Quality lost?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 01:25 PM

Better to store music in FLAC format which is lossless, for which there are plenty of free programmes that will play this format. In fact my Sansaclip music player will play FLAC and so will my Blackberry.

Better to have downloaded than not to hear at all!!!


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Subject: RE: Converting MP3 to WAV - Quality lost?
From: GUEST,Hookey Wole
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 01:28 PM

s'ok, didn't presume you were..

I'm just expanding out into a common real world scenario
to illustrate how the technical aspects of file conversion can matter and make a big significant difference.

As this is a Tech thread, the legalities are for the moment [in my mind, and at least] irrelevant.

It's just pure coincidence that I stumbled upon Tom Sweeney's Blog earlier this afternoon before reading your thread...
sorry, he was bugging me.


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Subject: RE: Converting MP3 to WAV - Quality lost?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 01:45 PM

Any transfer of data involves a loss of some sort. Data doesn't evade Newton's laws just because the transfer is digital. I don't doubt the loss could be measured, but whether the loss could be heard by an average human ear is the question. If you don't hear the loss, then for your purposes there was none.


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Subject: RE: Converting MP3 to WAV - Quality lost?
From: Artful Codger
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 02:23 PM

Which "lossless" formats can older CD players typically handle (pre-MP3 devolution)? Is WAV or AIFF more typical of commercial CDs?

For creation of "lossless" digital recordings, which archive format looks most promising, as a source for converting to others as necessary, and probability of long-term support? Ogg-Vorbis? FLAC? Newer MP3? Does it help significantly to store at a higher bits-per-sample size or sample rate?


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Subject: RE: Converting MP3 to WAV - Quality lost?
From: Arkie
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 02:44 PM

Quality of the MP3 depends upon the bitrate of the MP3. Music saved at 32 Kbps would not sound as good as music saved at 256 Kbps or higher. I do not really know what would happen if a file saved at Kbps were converted to 256 Kbps, but I would not expect the quality to really improve. Some CD burning programs will convert the MP3 before burning to the CD so the CD can be played on conventional players. To get what is considered CD quality one would need to start with 256 Kbps or possible 320 Kbps and some may argue otherwise.


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Subject: RE: Converting MP3 to WAV - Quality lost?
From: treewind
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 02:46 PM

Mary, the MP3s will already have lost some quality because they are MP3s, but there's no further loss of quality converting MP3 to .WAV - it will sound exactly the same as if you play the MP3 direct (which actually involves doing the same conversion on-the-fly).

If it's easier to persuade your CD burning software to make a proper audio CD by offering it .WAV files, just go ahead and convert to .WAV - no problem.

AC: "Which "lossless" formats can older CD players typically handle "
They can only handle audio CDs which are different from CDs with files on them. However 16 bit .WAV files (assuming they are also 44.1 kHz sampling rate and stereo, which is usually the case) contain exactly the same audio information as a CD, so they are the obvious format for giving to a CD burning program because the audio information won't have to be processed.

AIFF, like .WAV, is a container format. An AIFF file with stereo 16 bit 44.1kHz audio in it is very like a .WAV with audio in that format. If your CD burning program can read either, you'll get identical results.

"For creation of "lossless" digital recordings, which archive format looks most promising, as a source for converting to others as necessary, and probability of long-term support? Ogg-Vorbis? FLAC?Newer MP3?
FLAC is lossless and non proprietary, so it's likely to be a safe format for archiving if you want to compress your data to save space. Ogg Vorbis is usually not lossless, nor is MP3. (There is a lossless "MP3" specification, but nobody uses it)

"Does it help significantly to store at a higher bits-per-sample size or sample rate?"
Not particularly, and completely pointless if the original was of lower sampling rate or size, i.e. there's absolutely no point at all in converting 16 bit audio to 24 bit just to store it.


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Subject: RE: Converting MP3 to WAV - Quality lost?
From: treewind
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 02:59 PM

PS if you want a lossless format generally and you aren't bothered about compression, WAV is arguably safest because it's very widely supported and very easy to use. For instance many professional audio mixing and recording system use WAV files for actual sound storage, even if they use something of their own design for all the control and editing information.


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Subject: RE: Converting MP3 to WAV - Quality lost?
From: Arkie
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 03:00 PM

The site linked below has samples of music saved at various bitrates.

Samples


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Subject: RE: Converting MP3 to WAV - Quality lost?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 03:14 PM

Mary, if the CD is a traditional Audio CD and the WAV has the correct format (stereo, 16 bits, 44.1 kHz, see Wikipedia), there will be no (further) loss.


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Subject: RE: Converting MP3 to WAV - Quality lost?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 04:18 PM

I converted a couple of files and they sound okay - so I'll just convert to WAV. That way I think the CDs can be played even in older CD players that seem to have a problem with MP3s.


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Subject: RE: Converting MP3 to WAV - Quality lost?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 08:21 AM

Just in case I was not clear enough: MP3 and WAV are file formats, whereas a traditional Audio CD has no file system at all, it has tracks instead. The important thing is to tell the burning software to produce such an Audio CD (rather than a CD-ROM for files). If that software can read MP3 files at all, which most modern software can, it will do exactly what you want. If it cannot, you can do the transformation to WAV; be sure to specify the parameters as mentioned in my last post, otherwise you may lose more quality.


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Subject: RE: Converting MP3 to WAV - Quality lost?
From: Bernard
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 10:24 AM

Older CD players don't 'have a problem' with MP3s - they simply aren't designed to play them! MP3 is a file format that wasn't around when CD players were first developed.

A CD player that is designed to recognise and play MP3s will usually have the MP3 logo on the front, though not always.

A very handy CD player is the Teac CD-P650, which will play audio and MP3 CDs, but also has an USB slot which will recognise both USB fobs and iPods - and will even control the iPod via its remote control. I've been selling these to hotels, churches and the like for a while recently, and nobody has had a bad word to say about them!
(cue deluge...!)

As others have said, burning an audio CD using MP3 files as the source will not result in an further losses, but you cannot rip an audio CD to MP3 and expect to have no losses if you then burn an audio CD from the MP3s - unless you have specified lossless MP3s in the ripping process - such a format does exist, though the files are roughly the same size as WAV files, so somewhat pointless!

Typically, an MP3 of a WAV file will be around a tenth of the size, so a general rule-of-thumb is that you can get 10 MP3 albums on one CD, give or take - BUT you must play the resulting CD in an MP3 compatible player!

My brane hurtz...


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