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BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.

autolycus 11 May 12 - 04:09 AM
GUEST 11 May 12 - 06:02 AM
GUEST 11 May 12 - 06:25 AM
autolycus 11 May 12 - 06:42 AM
Bobert 11 May 12 - 09:16 AM
autolycus 11 May 12 - 01:38 PM
Rapparee 11 May 12 - 03:05 PM
autolycus 12 May 12 - 03:57 AM
Megan L 12 May 12 - 04:09 AM
GUEST,999 12 May 12 - 07:09 AM
autolycus 12 May 12 - 07:10 AM
Megan L 12 May 12 - 07:12 AM
GUEST,999 12 May 12 - 07:31 AM
Leadfingers 12 May 12 - 07:55 AM
autolycus 12 May 12 - 12:35 PM
GUEST,999 12 May 12 - 01:17 PM
autolycus 12 May 12 - 01:38 PM
Arkie 13 May 12 - 11:25 AM
autolycus 13 May 12 - 12:50 PM
GUEST 13 May 12 - 12:56 PM
Little Hawk 13 May 12 - 06:26 PM
Bobert 13 May 12 - 08:26 PM
GUEST,leeneia 14 May 12 - 12:55 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 14 May 12 - 01:37 PM
GUEST,999 14 May 12 - 02:56 PM
GUEST 15 May 12 - 08:28 AM
Nigel Parsons 15 May 12 - 08:40 AM
EBarnacle 15 May 12 - 10:18 AM
GUEST,999 15 May 12 - 01:22 PM

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Subject: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: autolycus
Date: 11 May 12 - 04:09 AM

1. Recklessness and irresponsibility of those in finance.
2. Wholesalers put up prices,
3. 'Producers' of raw materials put up prices.
4. Energy cartels raise prices quickly and lower them slowly.
5. All that bail-out money has to come from somewhere.
6. Privitisation leadsa to higher prices, like UK railways.
7. Business is unwilling to lower prices despite a recession.
8. Growing unemployment costs.
9. Rising Ceo pay costs.
10. The domino effects of any combination of the above.

11. Any others?


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: GUEST
Date: 11 May 12 - 06:02 AM

UK Headlines For the Week

Thank heavens they have a moat around the isles to contain the rabid.

Prison officers hold illegal strike and walk out.
Police have 35,000 person march
Bus Drivers planning strike during the London Olympic Games over bonus money
More Strikes Last Year - are hurting the working class
10's of thousand Public Sector Workers Join Strike in Scotland
Passengers at Heathrow Abandoned as Border Police Join Protests
Riots Were Taste of Things To Come Warns Government
400,000 protest changes in Their Pensions
Juries Canceled in Courtrooms.

(purhaps it is the solar flares and sunspots )


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: GUEST
Date: 11 May 12 - 06:25 AM

Messenger to the King:
"The peasants are revolting" !!
King Louis, "They certainly are."


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: autolycus
Date: 11 May 12 - 06:42 AM

I did ask about causes other than unions, who have been pretty nullified by law for many years from having much impact.


Here are some more reasons from another talkboard.



More global competition from China et al for fuel and raw materials.

Rising wages and costs in China et al.

25% drop in value of £ makes all imported stuff more expensive.

Putting VAT up to 20% makes all stuff more expensive.

Less sales overall due to economic situation, so prices for regular customer base sometimes have to be put up to compensate for this, otherwise small companies will go out of business.

we have a debt-based monetary system. Money is created when somebody or government takes on more debt. The more money created means more pounds are chasing after each consumable or asset. For things we import, if our debt levels are rising faster than the country's debt we're importing from, then prices will generally rise.


Any more,[and the more concisely put the better for clarity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: Bobert
Date: 11 May 12 - 09:16 AM

Here in the US our labor "class" is producing more ans more every year and not seeing any increase in wages for the increased production... Been that way for 30 years now...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: autolycus
Date: 11 May 12 - 01:38 PM

And the cause[s]


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 May 12 - 03:05 PM

Greed, of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: autolycus
Date: 12 May 12 - 03:57 AM

Whose greed?


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: Megan L
Date: 12 May 12 - 04:09 AM

How about more pay for less work
more profit for less quality
more demands for less loyaty

Rap nailed it in one GREED


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 May 12 - 07:09 AM

Ditto, Meg.


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: autolycus
Date: 12 May 12 - 07:10 AM

Well since capitalism is partly motivated by greed, we can say then that capitalism is a big source of rising prices, then.


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: Megan L
Date: 12 May 12 - 07:12 AM

No MANKIND is the source of rising prices stop trying to force us all to be your little toys.


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 May 12 - 07:31 AM

After 15 minutes of thought, I have decided to withdraw my support for Megan and Rap. I think it is disgusting of people to want a living wage. The only fair way to do it is to work for what ever the bosses want to pay us. They have always been fair before. The proof for that? Well, we are still alive, right? If the bosses hadn't been fair we'd be dead now.

Indeed, it's unions wot caused the mess we're in.


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: Leadfingers
Date: 12 May 12 - 07:55 AM

God Bless the Squire and his relations
And keep us in our proper stations


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: autolycus
Date: 12 May 12 - 12:35 PM

I really do not think I can force anyone to do or think or believe anything, so I don't do anything beyond say what I think and do my best to grasp what others say.

When I misunderstand, I hope my misunderstanding will be clarified. O nly a hope.

As I understand it, there are societies on the planet where there is no greed. An anthropologist here will correct me if I'm wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 May 12 - 01:17 PM

"As I understand it, there are societies on the planet where there is no greed. An anthropologist here will correct me if I'm wrong."

I'm not an anthropologist, but in my university studies I took some classes. Indeed there are societies that are more egalitarian, although 'greed' is kinda hard to define.

Some parts of Borneo have people who are dependent on the pig as a form of wealth. To ensure that all people stay at a same-ish wealth level, if Joe ends up with lotsa pigs and Dave doesn't, when special days come Joe provides the pigs for the feast. Joe is praised and lauded for having been so generous. People thank him and he gains status. When Dave's herd of pigs gets bigger than Harry's, Dave provides for the next feast. In turn, people laud Dave. And when Harry's--well, ya get the idea.

Unions were never a method of robbing the rich. They were and are simply a way of ensuring a decent living wage. I don't see how any thinking person could or would disagree with workers unionizing. And to suggest that unions are responsible for rising costs is ludicrous.

I have belonged to a few unions in my life, and I have never regretted that, nor will I ever. It was a union that was responsible for me having a pension to live on while I await the reaper. The largess of bosses? I don't think so. As employees we are disposable. With a good union, it becomes a damned sight harder to fire someone simply because they are nearing the top of the pay scale. Sheeit: disagreeing with workers unionizing--hell, ya gotta be rich in the first place to think like that!


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: autolycus
Date: 12 May 12 - 01:38 PM

Back in the 70s and 80s, unions were blamed here in the U.K. for most ills, including rising prices.

They have been pretty neutered since, and prices still merrily rise.

hence the wording of the thread.

Perhaps there are more reasons [?] apart from those already listed so far.


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: Arkie
Date: 13 May 12 - 11:25 AM

Speculation is another reason for rising prices. In my definition of capitalism, every step contributes to the process of creation, distribution, and marketing. You could add the role of capitalization into the mix. There does need to be a money supply to support the various steps within the supply and demand formula. Speculation inserts another step to the process with the only purpose of profit. It is unnecessary to the process of getting goods to market.


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: autolycus
Date: 13 May 12 - 12:50 PM

Thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 12 - 12:56 PM

The basic economic system is designed for endless expansion, not for endless balance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 May 12 - 06:26 PM

I think that the main cause is the enormous level of debt that has been created in an economy which has been based ON debt. Debt isn't real money, it's imaginary (future) money, but real money is required to pay it AND to pay interest on it, and that real money is being squeezed out of the general public. The public is unwillingly paying for massive debts created not, for the most part, by them but by their governments and the major lending institutions.

Those debts are so large now that they are effectively unpayable.

That's what eventually happens in a pyramid scheme. And then? A lot of little people lose out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: Bobert
Date: 13 May 12 - 08:26 PM

This all began when Ronald Reagan used the full force of the United Sates Government to bust the Air Traffic Controllers Union way back in '81... It was one of the 1st things that Reagan did... At that time approximately 16% of American workers belonged to unions... With that historic and unprecedented attack on unions corporation were emblazoned and followed suit and it has been a 30 year binge on union busting...

What has come pout of this is 30 years of stagnated wages of the working class, the lowest minimum wage (after inflation) and states with Republican statehouses now following ALECs instructions to bust the last few unions...

You want to see the results???

Check out my thread entitled "The TeaFoxLican Ideal World"...


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 May 12 - 12:55 PM

Where does the money come from to operate television channels? To pay celebrities and professional athletes huge salaries? To play the expenses of the employees and buy the broadcasting equipment? Surely it comes from advertising, and the cost of the advertising is then added to the prices of goods purchased. (In the case of sports, ticket revenue helps some.)

I don't watch TV, but I'm sure I'm paying for it anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 May 12 - 01:37 PM

""With a good union, it becomes a damned sight harder to fire someone simply because they are nearing the top of the pay scale. Sheeit: disagreeing with workers unionizing--hell, ya gotta be rich in the first place to think like that!""

The operative phrase there is "with a good union" Bruce, and the conclusion then is inarguable.

Unfortunately, if it isn't such a good union it also becomes impossible to fire an incompetent arsehole.

In the UK we had a lot of that in the period between 1964 and 1979.

Unions insisted on ridiculous demarkations, things on the lines of: [a bolt placer couldn't spin the nut onto his bolt. That was the domain of the nut spinner]. A fiction, true, but there were many instances just as daft.

I was doing a holiday job at Hythe House, the head office, at the time, of the Inland Revenue. I was paid by the hour and was working at a desk in a dark corner of a huge office, when at 10 a.m. the lamp on my desk went phut! I looked in the desk drawer and found a replacement lamp and was in the process of changing it when my supervisor came running down the office and said "What in God's name are you doing? Are you trying to get all the maintenance men out on strike? For Christ's sake put that away before anybody see's it.

Upshot?... The electrician was busy, and finally replaced the lamp from the desk drawer at four thirty the following day. I got fourteen hours pay for doing absolutely nothing, because the union wouldn't allow a bulb change other than by a union electrician.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 May 12 - 02:56 PM

Too true, Don.

Fables of wealth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 May 12 - 08:28 AM

I wasn't so much looking for main causes as all causes. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 May 12 - 08:40 AM

Autolycus:
Putting VAT up to 20% makes all stuff more expensive.

No!
Putting up VAT raises the cost of luxuries (so hitting the well-off harder than the poor)
Domestic rent is exempt from VAT.
Childrens clothes are Zero-rated for VAT.
Basic foodstuffs are Zero-rated for VAT.

You pay VAT on the fuel for your car, But ...
Passenger transport (Bus & Train) is Zero-rated.

Sorry to spoil a good argument by insisting on using facts!

Cheers
Nigel


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: EBarnacle
Date: 15 May 12 - 10:18 AM

OK, would you accept that rampant "speculation" by the oil companies who then buy from their internal "speculators/futures traders" makes fuel more expensive?


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Subject: RE: BS: Prices rising. Causes other than unions.
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 May 12 - 01:22 PM

"In other words, Enron, BP, Goldman, Philip Morris, G.E., Merck, etc., etc. Accounting fraud, tax evasion, toxic dumping, product safety violations, bid rigging, overbilling, perjury. The Walmart bribery scandal, the News Corp. hacking scandal — just open up the business section on an average day. Shafting your workers, hurting your customers, destroying the land. Leaving the public to pick up the tab. These aren't anomalies; this is how the system works: you get away with what you can and try to weasel out when you get caught.

I always found the notion of a business school amusing. What kinds of courses do they offer? Robbing Widows and Orphans? Grinding the Faces of the Poor? Having It Both Ways? Feeding at the Public Trough? There was a documentary several years ago called "The Corporation" that accepted the premise that corporations are persons and then asked what kind of people they are. The answer was, precisely, psychopaths: indifferent to others, incapable of guilt, exclusively devoted to their own interests."

THAT is from the link I posted just a bit back. That's why prices are going up. Period.


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