Uileann pipes history article

Subject: Uileann pipes history article
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 May 12 - 11:39 AM

For an interesting article on the historical nomenclature of Irish pipes, by Nicholas Carolan, Director of the Irish Traditional Music Archive,

Click here

Regards

Subject: RE: Uileann pipes history article
From: mayomick
Date: 14 May 12 - 12:16 PM

Martin,

The word uillean means elbow , but did it ever also mean "union" or "joint" in Irish ? An elbow is a joint - a union between the upper and lower parts of the arm. If another meaning of uileann is "union" there might have been some confusion between these two senses of the word .

Subject: RE: Uileann pipes history article
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 14 May 12 - 12:27 PM

'Uilleann' is a later invention as a name for the pipes. Most people would credit Gratton Flood with introducing this figment of his imagination. It stuck though.

Subject: RE: Uileann pipes history article
From: mayomick
Date: 14 May 12 - 12:32 PM

"uilean" sounds quite a lot like "union" . Perhaps the word "union" was translated as "uilean" , and the instrument took its Irish name from that , and not the fact that that the instrument is played with the elbow. It's really played with the arm rather than the elbow ,isn't it? Why didn't they call it a lamh pipe?

Subject: RE: Uileann pipes history article
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 May 12 - 12:38 PM

Nicholas points out, in a footnote to the first page of the article, that the term "uileann pipes" is a twentieth century invention. Grattan Flood based it, oddly enough, on a Shakespearean reference to "woollen bagpipes". The latter part of his article is concerned with a description of how "uileann" became the accepted term for Irish, bellows-blown pipes.

Regards

Subject: RE: Uileann pipes history article
From: GUEST,mayomick
Date: 14 May 12 - 01:24 PM

Surely it was just a translation of the english word "union" or "joint" and the thing about it being an elbow pipe was a false etymology that arose later . Somebody asks Why do they call it a uillean pipe ? and gets told that it's because the instrument is played with the elbow . My Irish is pretty useless but a dictionary gives lots of words that translate "joint" with words that have the ull ,uil as bases. I've just spoken to my local librarian about this who has good Irish . He thinks that I may have a point .

Subject: RE: Uileann pipes history article
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 May 12 - 02:10 PM

mayomick

You'll just have to read the full article - it's only 118 pages long!
To my mind, there are probably TWO folk etymologies at work - one in each language. Grattan Flood's woolen/uilleann is a folk-link, really.

Regards

Subject: RE: Uileann pipes history article
From: mayomick
Date: 14 May 12 - 02:13 PM

Ha ha . Thanks for posting the link btw , Martin

Subject: RE: Uileann pipes history article
From: Gedpipes
Date: 25 May 12 - 06:43 AM

Note 'Uilleann' not 'Uileann'

Subject: RE: Uileann pipes history article
From: Bobert
Date: 25 May 12 - 10:01 AM

I'll be the first to admit that all pipes look a like to me... However, stating my shortcomings I'd like to throw a name out: DeClan Masterson (sp?) who, IMHO, is one fine pipes player...

B~

Subject: RE: Uileann pipes history article
From: meself
Date: 25 May 12 - 02:46 PM

Thanks for putting up the link, Martin. Not being terribly interested in this particular etymology, it's taken me awhile to get to the article - but now that I've started on it, I'm enjoying it immensely. I'm not half-way through it yet .... but it's giving a fascinating picture of Irish-Scottish music in London in particular in the 17th through 19th centuries.