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songs for the queen's big day

*#1 PEASANT* 01 Jun 12 - 12:27 PM
Les in Chorlton 01 Jun 12 - 02:34 PM
Peter C 02 Jun 12 - 07:12 AM
Les in Chorlton 02 Jun 12 - 07:36 AM
Leadfingers 02 Jun 12 - 09:14 AM
The Borchester Echo 02 Jun 12 - 10:26 AM
theleveller 02 Jun 12 - 01:01 PM
Bonzo3legs 02 Jun 12 - 01:12 PM
Nick 02 Jun 12 - 01:44 PM
MGM·Lion 02 Jun 12 - 02:25 PM
Carol 02 Jun 12 - 02:35 PM
The Borchester Echo 02 Jun 12 - 03:07 PM
Charley Noble 02 Jun 12 - 03:11 PM
MGM·Lion 02 Jun 12 - 03:22 PM
MGM·Lion 02 Jun 12 - 03:30 PM
The Borchester Echo 02 Jun 12 - 03:42 PM
theleveller 02 Jun 12 - 05:15 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 02 Jun 12 - 05:57 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 02 Jun 12 - 05:58 PM
Charley Noble 02 Jun 12 - 07:41 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Jun 12 - 08:25 PM
Betsy 02 Jun 12 - 08:37 PM
Big Al Whittle 02 Jun 12 - 08:55 PM
GUEST,Marianne S. 03 Jun 12 - 05:56 AM
GUEST,Marianne S. 03 Jun 12 - 06:06 AM
GUEST 03 Jun 12 - 06:07 AM
GUEST,Marianne S. 03 Jun 12 - 06:08 AM
banjoman 03 Jun 12 - 06:18 AM
Steve Shaw 03 Jun 12 - 06:41 AM
MGM·Lion 03 Jun 12 - 07:23 AM
Steve Shaw 03 Jun 12 - 07:32 AM
GUEST,Marianne S. 03 Jun 12 - 07:36 AM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Jun 12 - 07:57 AM
MGM·Lion 03 Jun 12 - 08:11 AM
Tug the Cox 03 Jun 12 - 08:22 AM
Steve Shaw 03 Jun 12 - 09:03 AM
Charley Noble 03 Jun 12 - 09:15 AM
banjoman 03 Jun 12 - 11:22 AM
Steve Shaw 03 Jun 12 - 12:33 PM
Les in Chorlton 03 Jun 12 - 01:52 PM
GUEST,Not particularly a royalist 03 Jun 12 - 02:29 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 03 Jun 12 - 06:34 PM
Richard from Liverpool 03 Jun 12 - 07:14 PM
Steve Shaw 03 Jun 12 - 07:38 PM
Big Al Whittle 03 Jun 12 - 08:13 PM
Steve Shaw 03 Jun 12 - 08:15 PM
GUEST,davemc 03 Jun 12 - 08:24 PM
Big Al Whittle 03 Jun 12 - 09:00 PM
MGM·Lion 03 Jun 12 - 11:57 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Jun 12 - 04:48 AM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Jun 12 - 05:17 AM
banjoman 04 Jun 12 - 05:56 AM
GUEST,davemc 04 Jun 12 - 06:18 AM
GUEST,old git 04 Jun 12 - 06:21 AM
GUEST,old git 04 Jun 12 - 07:14 AM
Les in Chorlton 04 Jun 12 - 07:16 AM
GUEST,Marianne S. 04 Jun 12 - 09:31 AM
GUEST 04 Jun 12 - 12:44 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 04 Jun 12 - 03:25 PM
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Big Al Whittle 04 Jun 12 - 05:25 PM
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Don(Wyziwyg)T 04 Jun 12 - 06:23 PM
GUEST,Marianne S. 04 Jun 12 - 06:26 PM
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Subject: Folklore: songs for the queen's big day
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 12:27 PM

Just in case you are asked to play the essential play list is here

JUBILEE ROAD

cho: Jubilee road I can hear you callin, Jubilee road I can hear you talkin
Mississippi dream you got me walkin on Jubilee road
Yesterday's gone don't you understand, cottontop's grown to be a man
Big city sidewalk covers the sand on Jubilee road

Yesterday calls and my heart goes back,
Down the Mississippi by the railroad tracks
Where the corn and the taters and the cotton grows on Jubilee
road;
Back home folks used to call me cotton top,
Catching them catfish and skippin them rocks
Lord I'd give everything I got for Jubilee road

Walking down the street to my fishin hole,
Hot sand poppin up between my toes
Heaven was a place I used to know as Jubilee road
Grapevine swinging in the summertime,
laughin and singing with friends of mine
Life was good there all the time,on jubilee road

Now there ain't no cotton and there ain't no corn
Can't find the place where I was born
Everyones gone that i used to know on Jubilee road;
Workin like a fool for a dollar bill
I wanna go home but I never will
And in my mind I live there still on Jubilee road

JUBILEE
(Bill Staines)

cho: Jubilee, wasn't it a jubilee
Jubilee, wasn't it a jubilee
Well they were singin out together, they were shoutin revelry
Jubilee, Lord wasn't it a jubilee

Well they were dancing by the river, they were dancing by the sea
They were bouncing all the babies up and down upon their knee
They were laughing out happy they was cryin out free
Jubilee, Lord wasn't it a jubilee

They was bangin on the banjos they was playin on guitars
They were blowin out the bass notes on the crockery jars
They was slidin on the wadhboards bangin spoons upon their knee
Jubilee, Lord wasn't it a jubilee

They was comin from the valleys they was comin from the towns
They came to see the paddlewheels and the showboat clowns
They was comin from the farm lands they was comin from the sea
Jubilee, Lord wasn't it a jubilee

Now is'nt it a picture all these times gone by
Well he used to tell me stories with a twinkle in his eye
And i wished i could have been there as set upon his knee
Jubilee, Granddad, wasnt it a jubilee

JUBILEE SOVREIGN
as performed by Stanley Holloway

On Jubilee Day the Ramsbottoms
Invited relations to tea,
Including young Albert's grandmother-
An awkward old . . party, was she.
She'd seen Queen Victoria's accession
And `er wedding to Albert (the Good)
But she got quite upset when young Albert
Asked `er `ow she'd got on in the Flood.
She cast quite a damper on't party,
But she warmed up a bit after tea,
And gave Albert a real golden sovereign
She'd been saving since last Jubilee.
It `ad picture of Queen on't one side
And a dragon fight on the reverse,
And it smelled of camphor and cobwebs
Through being so long in `er purse.
Albert `andled the coin, and `e kissed it
And `e felt the rough edge with `is tongue;
For `e knew by the look of `is father
That it wouldn't be `is very long.
"I`ll show you a trick wi' that sovereign,"
Said Pa, `oo were `overin' near-
And `e took and pretended to eat it,
Then brought it back out of `is ear.
This magic filled Albert with wonder,
And before you could say "Uncle Dick",
`E'd got the coin back from `is father
And performed the first part of the trick.
When they all saw where the money `ad gone
With excitement the relatives burned;
And each one suggested some process
For getting the money returned.
Some were for fishing with tweezers,
While some were for shaking it out;
"If we only got back a few shillings,"
They said "`twould be better than nowt."
They tried `olding Albert `ead downward
And giving `is shoulders a clump-
`Till his uncle, `oo worked for a chemist
Said "There's nowt for it but stomach pump."
Well, they `adn't a stomach pump `andy,
But Pa did the best that `e could
With a bicycle pump that they borrowed
But that weren't nearly so good.
So off they went to the doctor
`Oo looked down `is throat with a glass;
`E said "This'll mean operation-
I fear that `e'll `ave to `ave gas."
"`Ow much is this `ere goin' to cost me?"
Said Father, beginning to squirm.
"I'm afraid that it comes out expensive-
The best gas is eight pence a therm.
There's my time, six shillings an hour;
You can't do these things in two ticks-
By rights I should charge you a guinea,
But I'll do it for eighteen and six."
"Wot, eighteen and six to get sovereign?"
Said Father, "That doesn't sound sense -
I'll tell you, you'd best keep young Albert
And give us the odd eighteen pence!"
The doctor concurred this arrangement,
But to this day he stands in some doubt
As to whether he's in eighteen shillings
Or whether he's eighteen pence out.

ALABAMA JUBILEE
(Jack Yellen, 1915)

Mandolins, violins,
Hear the darkies tunin' up, the fun begins.
Come this way. Don't delay.
Better hurry, honey dear, or you'll be missin'
Music sweet, ragtime treat,
Goes right to your head and trickles to your feet.
It's a reminder, a memory finder of nights down home in Alabam'.

CHO: You ought to see Deacon Jones when he rattles the bones,
Old Parson Brown foolin' roun' like a clown,
Aunt Jemima who is past eighty-three,
Shoutin', "I'm full o' pep! Watch yo' step, watch yo' step!"
One-legged Joe danced aroun' on his toe,
Threw away his crutch and hollered, "Let 'er go!"
Oh, honey, Hail! Hail! The gang's all here for an Alabama Jubilee.

Hear that flute, it's a beaut,
And the tunes it's tootin', tootsie, ain't they cute?
Let's begin. It's a sin
To be missin' all this syncopated music!
Oh, you Jane, once again
Give your legs some exercise to that refrain.
Boy, that's what makes me so dreamy and takes me back home to my old Alabam'.

CHO.

RING THOSE GOLDEN BELLS

There's a land beyond the river
THat they call the sweet forever
And you'll only reach that shore by faith's decree;
One by one we'll gain the portals
There to dwell with the immortals
Where they ring them golden bells for you and me.

Don't you hear those bells a-ringing?
Don't you hear the angels singing
And it's glory, hallelujah! Jubilee!
In that far-off sweet forever
Just beyond the silent river
Where they ring those golden bells for you and me.

THE IRISH JUBILEE

A short time ago an Irishman named Docherty
Was elected to the Senate by a very large majority

Sure he felt so elected that he went to Denis Cassidy
Who owned a bar room of a very large capacity

Arra, says Docherty go over to the brewer and order
A hundred kegs of lager beer and give it to the poor!

Then go over to the butchers shop and order up a ton of meat
Be sure the boys and girls have got all they want to drink and eat

They made me their senator, to show them all me gratitude
They'll have the finest supper ever given in the latitude

Tell them the music will be furnished by O'Rafferty
Assisted on the bagpipes by Felix Mick M'Cafferty

Sure whatever the expenses are, remember I'll put up the tin
And anyone who doesn't come, be sure and do not let them in

Now Cassidy at once sent out the invitations
And anyone who came was a credit to the nation

Some came on bicycles because they had no fares to pay
And all those that did not come, made up their minds to stay away

Two by three they all rushed in the dining hall
Young men and old men and girls that were not men at all

Blind men and deaf men and men who had the chickenpox
Single men and double men and men who had their glasses on

Well in a few minutes nearly every chair was taken
Till the taprooms and mushrooms were packed to suffocation

When everyone was seated and we started to lay out the feast
Cassidy says rise up and give us each a cake apiece

He then said as manager he would try and fill the chair
We then sat down and all looked over the bill of fare

Well there was pigs heads, goldfish, mocking birds and ostriches
Ice cream, cold cream, Vaseline and sandwiches

Blue fish, green fish, fishhooks and partridges
Fishballs, snowballs, cannonballs and cartridges

We ate oatmeal till we could hardly stirabout
Ketch-up and hurry-up, sweet-kraut and sauer-kraut

Dressed beef and naked beef and beef with all its trousers on
Soda crackers, fire crackers, Cheshire cheese with breeches on

Beefsteaks and mistakes were down upon the bill of fare
Roast ribs and spare ribs and ribs that we couldn't spare

Reindeer, snowdeer and dear me and antelope
The women ate so much melon ,the men said they cantaloupe

Red herrings, smoked herrings, herrings from old Erin's Isle
Bangor loaf and fruit cake and sausages a half a mile

Hot corn, cold corn, and corn cake and honey-comb
Red birds and red books, sea bass and sea foam

Fried liver, baked liver, Carter's little liver pills
And everyone was wondering who was going to pay the bill

Well we ate everything that was on the bill of fare
And then we looked on the back to see if any more was there

Well for dessert we had ice picks, tooth picks and a piece of
skipping rope
And we washed them all down with a big piece of shaving soap

The bad played hornpipes, gaspipes and Irish reels
And we danced to the music of "The wind that shakes the Barley
fields"

Then the piper played ould tunes and spittoons so very fine
Then in came fiddler Pat and gave to him a glass of wine

Arra a finer set of dancers you never set your eyes upon
And anyone who couldn't dance was dancing with their slippers on

Some danced jig steps door steps and highland flings
And Murphy took his penknife out and tried to cut the "Pigeon's
wings"

When the dance was over Cassidy told us all to join hands and sing
this good old chorus:

Should Old Acquaintance Be Forgot, who ever you may be
Lets think of the good ould times we had at the Irish Jubilee!

Lyr. Add: JUBILATE
AI Baker Thompson
Air: Old Dartmouth

We have come together to-night, Boys,
With hearts merry and light, Boys,
In accordance with our right, Boys
To have a jubilee, etc.
[To have a jubilee,
To have a jubilee,
To have a jubilee,
In accordance with our right, Boys,
To have a jubilee.]

Released from care and vexation,
And the pangs of recitation,
We're just in a situation
To have a jubilee, etc.

We've studied mathematical science,
In sulLen, reluctant compliance,
With "the laws" which we set at defiance
To have a jubilee, etc.

We loathe mathematicas artes,
Thesis et ictus et arsis,
In animo all of our class is,
To have a jubilee, etc.

Then fill up the bowl to the brim, Boys,
With brandy, nor wine, nor gin, Boys,
For these cause the brain to swim, Boys,
Hurrah for a jubilee, etc.

KINGDOM COMING
(Henry Clay Work)

Say, darkeys, hab you seen de massa,
Wid de muff-stash on his face,
Go long the road some time dis mornin'
Like he gwine to leab de place?
He seen a smoke, 'way up the ribber
Whar the Linkum gunboats lay;
He took his hat an' lef' berry sudden
An' I spec he's run away!

cho: De massa run? Ha ha!
De darkeys stay? Ho ho!
It mus' be now de kingdom comin'
An' de year ob Jubilo!

He six foot one way, two foot tudder,
An' he weigh tree hundred pound;
His coat so big, he couldn't pay de tailor,
An' it won't go half way round.
He drill so much dey call him Cap'n
An' he get so drefful tanned,
I spec he try and fool dem Yankees
For to t'ink he's contraband!

cho:

De darkeys feel so lonesome, libing
In de log-house on the lawn,
Dey move dar t'ings to massa's parlour,
For to keep it while he's gone.
Dar's wine an' cider in de kitchen,
An' de darkeys dey'll have some;
I spose dey'll all be confiscated
When de Linkum sojers come.

cho:

De oberseer he make us trouble
An he dribe us round a spell;
We lock him up in de smoke-house cellar
Wid de key trown in de well.
De whip is lost, de han-cuff broken
But de massa'll hab his pay;
He's ole enough, big enough, ought to known better
Dan to went an' run away.

WHUP JAMBOREE

Whup jamboree, whup jamboree,
Oh, a long-tailed sailor man comin' up behind!
Whup jamboree, whup jamboree,
Come an' get your oats, me son!

The pilot he looked out ahead,
The hands on the chain and the heavin of the lead,
And the old man roared to wake the dead,
Come and get your oats, me son!

Oh, now we see the Lizard light,
Soon, me boys, we'll heave in sight,
We'll soon be abreast of the Isle Of Wight,
Come and get your oats, me son!

Now when we get to the Blackwall docks,
Those pretty young girls come out in flocks,
With short-legged drawers and long tailed frocks,
Come and get your oats, me son!

Well, then we'll walk doon Limelight way,
And all the girls will spend our pay,
We'll not see more `til another day,
Come and get your oats, me son!

NB this is transcribed from the Rockapella version, not the Kingston Trio

Back to back Ha ha ha ha
Belly to belly Yes, my friends!
Back to back Ha ha ha ha
Belly to belly Say Huh!

It was a Zombie Jamboree
Took place in the New York cemetery
It was a Zombie Jamboree
Took place in the New York cemetery

Zombies from all parts of the island
Some of them were great Calypsonians
Since the season was Carnivale
They got together in Bacchanal, Huh!

And they were singing
Back to back Belly to belly
Well, I don't give a damn 'Cause I'm stone dead already
Back to back Belly to belly
It's a Zombie Jamboree

One female zombie, She wouldn't behave
See how she's dancing out of the grave
In one hand she's holding a quart of rum
The other hand was knocking a conga drum

You know the lead singer starts to make his rhyme
While the other zombies rockin' in time
One bystander, he had this to say
"It was a trip to see the zombies break away!" Shah!

And they were singing
Back to back Belly to belly
Well, I don't give a damn 'Cause I'm stone dead already
Back to back Belly to belly
It's a Zombie Jamboree

And they were singing
Back to back Belly to belly
Well, I don't give a damn 'Cause I'm stone dead already
Back to back Belly to belly
It's a Zombie Jamboree

Back to back Everyone, we sing!
Back to back And belly to belly
Then back to back A-One Two Three Four!
Hey hey hey hey hey

What a Zombie Jamboree
From Times Square to the Statue of Liberty
Uptown, Downtown, Zombie Jamboree
Oo woh oo woh woh yeah yeah

There's a high wire zom between the World Trades
A King Kong zombie on the Empire State
But the biggest zombies Tokyo to Rome
The zombies who call this city home!
Hah! What they do! Huh!

Back to back Belly to belly
Well, I don't give a damn 'Cause I'm stone dead already
Back to back Belly to belly
It's a Zombie Jamboree

And they were singing
Back to back Belly to belly
Well, I don't give a damn 'Cause I'm stone dead already
Back to back Belly to belly
It's a Zombie Jamboree We do the Limbo!

Back to back Belly to belly
Well, I don't give a damn 'Cause I'm stone dead already
Back to back Belly to belly
It's a Zombie Jamboree
Hey hey hey hey!
****************************************


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Subject: RE: Folklore: songs for the queen's big day
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 02:34 PM

The Levolution - Coope, Boyes & Simpson

L in C#


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Peter C
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 07:12 AM

But surely, The Queen is Queen of Great Britain & Northern Ireland? IMHO songs and tunes from here only! No American material until we repeal the Treaty of Paris!
We will be doing 'Rule Britannia!' 'Land of Hope & Glory' and a shedful of morris tunes!


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 07:36 AM

Intrestin:


Alex Glasgow

L in C#


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Leadfingers
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 09:14 AM

Last Night at The Tap a coupe of the lads 'did' Leon Rosselssons 'Procreation' !


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 10:26 AM

Vic Gammon's Kings & Queens of England sums up how useless the whole bleedin' lot of them are.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: theleveller
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 01:01 PM

The whole of Rev Hammer's Freeborn John.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 01:12 PM

Useless eh?? Will you keep a job for 60 years? I don't think so - the Queen is an exemplar to us all.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Nick
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 01:44 PM

What about that Cher song with the funny sounding vocal? I think the words are something like

Jubilee in life after love
I can feel something inside me say
I really don't think you're strong enough,
Now
Jubilee in life after love
I can feel something inside me say
I really don't think you're strong enough,
Now


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 02:25 PM

Welcome back, Diane.   

~Michael~

Pity about the post, though...


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Carol
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 02:35 PM

Thanks for the ideas, we're having a Queen theme on Tuesday!!


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 03:07 PM

Oh really? For anyone else unfamiliar with Vic Gammon's fab song:

Now Charles the Second had eleven bastard children
George the Third went mad
And Edward the Seventh they thought was Jack the Ripper
But Richard the Third weren't as bad as people thought he was
Victoria laid back and thought of England
Charles the First lost his head
Well the best thing about those Kings and Queens of England is that most of them are dead....

Chorus

Singing, Rule Britannia, Britannia waives the rules
Kings, Queens, Jacks and Knaves and Tyrants
Cheats and Fools

Now William the Third was a Protestant and Dutchman
James the First was a Scot
And George the First spoke nothing else but German
What a mixed up, interbred lot And William the First, was a grasping Norman bastard
Believe me it's no lie
Well, there hasn't been an English King of England
Since Harold got one in the eye

Chorus

Now She was a well-heeled blue-blood Cinderella
Him, Prince Charming with big ears
But he had a thing going with the ugly sister
So it ended all in tears
So arise now you ghosts of old Oliver Cromwell
Brave Harrison and Tom Paine
Would you rid our land of this monstrous carbuncle
And bring sunshine after the reign?

Chorus


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 03:11 PM

How about "Lizie in the Sky with Diamonds"?

But why is sixty years a "diamond anniversary"?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 03:22 PM

"Fab"?

'And the song that they sang was, She's easy to please'


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 03:30 PM

Charley ~~ The traditional names of the anniversaries seem to be of German origin, based on gifts customarily given to couples on certain anniversaries to mark the longevity of the marriage. A bit of folklore that seems to have got conventionalised and fixed. Helpful wiki entries, if really interested, under "Anniversary" and "Wedding anniversary".

HTH

~M~


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 03:42 PM

No, no, they all sang Rosselsongs.
Leadfingers' suggestion of Procreation is a good follow-up:

When mad king George was dying and the throne of Britain was at stake
Six royal dukes set to with zeal to spawn an heir for Britain's sake
Five royal dukes proved impotent, the victor was the duke of Kent
The duke alas his arrow fired, his duty done, soon expired
But not before, hurrah, hurrah, he'd fathered queen Victoria and saved us from the foreigner.

Procreation, procreation, there's one thing we're good at, it's procreation
Traditionally we spend our time perpetuating the royal line
Procreation, procreation, there's nothing so royal as procreation.


(Leon Rosselson)

There are two more verses but you can buy the book.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: theleveller
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 05:15 PM

"Useless eh?? Will you keep a job for 60 years?"

Ah, but, of course, old Liz doesn't actually have a contract of employment, a job description, a line manager, regular formal assessments, time sheets etc, etc....this is not a job, it's a sinecure. Let's get rid of the old bag and her moronic, disfunctional family.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 05:57 PM

As it happens, Elizabeth Windsor is quite a competent public speaker and rep. - BUT even if useless she'd have the "job" anyway; also, the monarchy and its pageantry tends to suck the masses into accepting what should be seen as revolting inequality; and, furthermore, all monarchies are blasphemies as the only one born to rule is a prophet of God - http://walkaboutsverse.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/walkaboutsverse-225-of-230.html


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 05:58 PM

...that's a poem "for the queen's big day", by the way.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 07:41 PM

Liz looked pretty sharp sixty years ago. She's still holding up remarkably well compared to most of us old farts on Mudcat.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 08:25 PM

I see the venerable Neil Young has recorded God Save the Queen as part of his new LP Americana. See the film of the record here...


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Betsy
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 08:37 PM

't would be nice to remember at his time that the system which protects the Queen is called "the Establishment".
The Establishment upholds the Monarch as the leader of the ( Anglican) Church of England.
I was born in 1947 as a Roman Catholic, and in that time Church of England ( or Protestants of every hue) have tolerated, though sometimes made it difficult, for Catholic English people.
Margaret Thatcher IMHO filled her cabinet with Jewish folk which changed the nature of the English / British Establishment forever.
I now look at the Monarchy and Establishment in this light - if , AND ONLY IF ,Diane was carrying the child Dodi Fayed,the Establishment, was NOT prepared to tolerate the existence to any Muslim line to the Crown.
What do I know ???? but the Crown is responsible for some barabaric acts over the centuries.
SONG :_ Let's have a chorus of " Are you working , No, are you??? three cheers for the Red White and Blue...........etc.

Anyway, God Bless the Queen, I'm sure she's a decent sort and had to put up with the same shit as many of us parents have had to deal with ,unfortunateley, most of us need to do so without the huge financial resources on which the Queen is able to call upon.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 08:55 PM

Tune: Ain't She Sweet?
Well Done Liz!

What can I say? There I was, I had an identity crisis. I was commuting out of Manchester going there every weekend to do gigs at the Irish pubs, singing Irish songs. I had taken the words of a chance remark by Christy Moore seriously, and rather than turn my back on my roots – I had become a shillelagh carrying Irishman. I even read the Irish Post.

The Her Majesty's Jubilee came to the rescue and I rediscovered my English persona. How proud we all were to feel ourselves Englishmen in that bright dawn.

Well Done Liz!

Well Done Liz!
You're the Queen that's what you is!
Lets have and on orgy
You can bring the corgi

I'm sure you'd win any election
You've got four kids
What a selection!
(Love the aristocracy!)

You're the champ
That's your head on all the stamps
And that's your head on my last penny
I bet you've a quid or two – ooh not many! !


My favourite member of the House of Windsor is Barbra – she's a laugh
She's done very well – she's on East Enders
Could you get me her autograph!

Well Done Liz!
You're the Queen that's what you is!
Ooh my gosh! You're ever so posh
Well Done Liz!

Wearing a crown, I bet it gets you down
No wonder you look glum
Fifty years sitting on the throne
I bet thats hard on the ee by gum!

Well Done Liz!
You're the Queen that's what you is!
Not just some arsehole – you live in a castle!
Well done Liz!


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: GUEST,Marianne S.
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 05:56 AM

Betsey, you seem a little confused. Any child Diana (not Diane) might have had with Dodi Fayed would not have been in line to the throne. Her children by Charles are in line through their descent from him not her.

That's the whole point. The position is filled by the applicant most closely related to the existing holder. Unless, of course, the people don't like the applicant or the holder, when they will be politely asked to leave and the job offered to someone else. (see James II/William and Mary or the 47 people who were more nearly related to the Stuarts that George I, but weren't suitable for some reason. Or in Bavaria, after mad Ludwig had been found floating face down in the lake with his psychiatrist, his uncle got the job because his brother was too out to lunch even for them).


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: GUEST,Marianne S.
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 06:06 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPUyB6NCQfI


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 06:07 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPUyB6NCQfI


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: GUEST,Marianne S.
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 06:08 AM

Sorry, that was me trying to do the blue clicky thing. I appear to be technically inept.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: banjoman
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 06:18 AM

I have no problem with any member of the "Royal Family" as equal members of the human race. My objection is to the position of rank and priviledge afforded to an individual simply on the grounds of their parentage. After all, if you give someone a job for life at aged 25 and they survive into their 85th year then thats 60 years, so what are we celebrating. I detest statements being broadcast regularly in the media such as "Our beloved queen/ the day we have all been waiting for/beloved of all her people/subjects"
I am not her subject,nor do I accept her, or anyone elses right to "Reign over us" without at least some say in who should lead this country. I am as patriotic as anyone but that does not include any allegiance to the monarchy.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 06:41 AM

Well said, sir! Just to add that the job for life came with ultimate job security, £32 million a year that you don't really need but hey-ho, free massive houses in all the best places, the finest public schools (oxymoron red alert!) for her, er, rather thick children, automatic entry into privileged bits of the armed services for them, big private planes, boats and trains, as many horses and corgis as you could ride on a long summer's day and a bunch of servants to follow you everywhere. Shame about Phil, but you can't have everything. Reign over us? Piss over us, more like!


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 07:23 AM

Not so sure about the privileged entry to the armed services. There are plenty of places where the son of the president or whoever would go straight into the army as a colonel, rather than having, as Princes William & Harry did, to have to complete their country's equivalent of the entire 18 month training course at RMA Sandhurst before being commissioned as 2nd Lieutenants: and later, in William's case, another course at Cranwell before transferring to the RAF as a helicopter pilot in which role he saw action on board a Sea King search and rescue helicopter.

~M~


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 07:32 AM

Ah, just Sandhurst 'n' Cranwell then! That make it all right then! Come off it, mate. Their paths were predestined.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: GUEST,Marianne S.
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 07:36 AM

The army High Command may know he's the son of the monarch and make allowances. The helicopter doesn't. They can't win. If they take the money and sit on their arses that's wrong. If they try to do a job that's wrong. It's part of my objection to the monarchy - not only what it does to the country but what it does to the people born into it with no way out. And don't say they can resign. How long do you think they'd survive the combined onslaught of demented royalty lovers, terrorists and the tabloid press?


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 07:57 AM

My objection is to the position of rank and privilege afforded to an individual simply on the grounds of their parentage.

I'm afraid that in our society that is more or less universal. By and large the children of rich and powerful people inherit those riches and power, and the children of poor and powerless people inherit their poverty and lackof power. There is a little shuffling around at teh edges, but that's the way to bet. The presence or absence of a royal family is completely insignificant in this.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 08:11 AM

You try a course at Sandhurst &/or Cranwell, Steve-Fatgob, and see how you get on.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 08:22 AM

Charley...the idea of a 'Diamond Jubilee' is a bastardisation. A jubilee is, and can only be, a period of 50 yrs ( This from Wiki The concept of the Jubilee is a special year of remission of sins and universal pardon. In the Biblical Book of Leviticus, a Jubilee year is mentioned to occur every fifty years, in which slaves and prisoners would be freed, debts would be forgiven and the mercies of God would be particularly manifest. In Christianity, the tradition dates to 1300, when Pope Boniface VIII convoked a holy year, following which ordinary jubilees have generally been celebrated every 25 or 50 years; with extraordinary jubilees in addition depending on need. Christian Jubilees, particularly in the Catholic tradition, generally involve pilgrimage to a sacred site, normally the city of Rome.) Queen Victoria reached 50 years on the throne in 1887, and a Jubilee celebration was announced. 10 years later, when she reached an unprecedented 60 years, the idea of a diamond jubilee was suggested, with reference to the traditional wedding anniversary gifts. George V reached 25 years in 1935, and a 'Silver Jubilee' was announced, again with reference to the wedding anniverary gifts. Queen Elizabeth II had a silver jubilee, a jubilee, now wrongly identified as a 'Golden Jubilee' using the same logic, and now a diamond jubilee. Her mother lived till 100...so some new inventions may be on the way.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 09:03 AM

"Steve-Fatgob?" Is that a debating point, or just a typical example of how royalists address each other? Tone it down, the!


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 09:15 AM

Tug-

Thanks for the clarification. There does seem to be some confusion about with a "diamond anniversary" is 75 years or 60 years. I don't really care. If it makes some older people happy to have one at 60 years, fine!

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: banjoman
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 11:22 AM

Just a thought - if we are "Celebrating" her accession to the throne in 1952 (60 years ago) then do we have to go through it all again next year to celbrate 60 years since her coronation


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 12:33 PM

Nah, we'll have chopped her head off by then.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 01:52 PM

He he


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: GUEST,Not particularly a royalist
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 02:29 PM

I think the Jubilee's worth having if only for thumbing the nose at the dour republicans and reminding them they're in the minority -as usual.

Jeremy Hardy was unavailable for comment but it's said he's threatening to defect. Unfortunately no one can give a stuff.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 06:34 PM

""automatic entry into privileged bits of the armed services for them,""

Andrew: Priveleged to fly a Sea King Helicopter in the Falklands. ""Prince Andrew's place on board "Invincible" and the possibility of The Queen's son being killed in action made the British Government apprehensive, and the Cabinet desired that Prince Andrew be moved to a desk job for the duration of the conflict. The Queen, though, insisted that her son be allowed to remain with his ship, meaning Prince Andrew remained on board Invincible to serve as a Sea King helicopter co-pilot, flying on missions that included anti-submarine warfare and anti-surface warfare, Exocet missile decoy, casualty evacuation, transport, and search and air rescue. He witnessed the Argentinian attack on the SS Atlantic Conveyor, and was one of the first to take off survivors.

Prince Andrew remained with Invincible until 1983. In Commander Nigel Ward's book, Sea Harrier Over the Falklands, Prince Andrew was described as "an excellent pilot and a very promising officer". He was decorated for his service in the Falklands.
""

Harry: Deployed in secrecy to Afghanistan. ""It was later reported that, while in Afghanistan, Harry had called in United States Air Force air strikes, helped Gurkha troops repel an attack from Taliban insurgents, and performed patrol duty in hostile areas.

He is expected to be again deployed to Afghanistan as an Apache attack helicopter pilot.
""

Privilege eh? I bet none of you would want to change places with them, and none of our politicians are sending their sons.

And the queen herself has a work schedule which would kill any of you who piss and moan about her, assuming any of you would take on that kind of work ethic in the first place.

I suspect your trade unions wouldn't permit you to work more than 60 hours a week, which is a bloody sight less than she does.

A sinecure?......Yeah, Right!

Don T.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Richard from Liverpool
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 07:14 PM

Thank you Don. I think that needed to be said.

Personally, I had a go at Down Among the Dead Men today, because a) it's a bloody good song, b) it starts with "Here's a health to the Queen", and c) it's anti-puritan and anti-killjoy, and I feel that a some critics just wanted to spoil other people's enjoyment of what's basically a couple of days of partying. Unfortunately, I ballsed it up a bit, but that's life. Still enjoyed the day!


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 07:38 PM

Hey Don, don't you ever suspect that, in the teensiest, weensiest way, we might just be getting half the story about them brave royals on the alleged front line? Still, never mind. If ever there was a day for believers and sycophants to suspend disbelief even more than ever...

Itemisation of any one of her 60-hour-plus weeks would be welcome, still more the evidence that that's her long-term average, as you appear to imply. And there's nowt wrong with trade unions, old chap. And did you really use the words "Queen" and "ethic" in the same sentence?


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 08:13 PM

I think maybe Steve we should respect Don's view. I can't stand the bloody royal family myself. If its a belief that sustain's him fair enough. I believe folk music can redeem the world. Not traditional folk music, just folk music.

We all need stuff to believe in.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 08:15 PM

A view is one thing. An unsupportable assertion is another entirely!


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: GUEST,davemc
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 08:24 PM

What a miserable bunch of sour chippy folkies....

God Save Our Queen.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 09:00 PM

Oh don't worry Steve - Don will support it with something. Such bickering is a weariness to the flesh.

'sour chippy' - that sounds like something thought up by the Jack Daniels lobby. They can't make whiskey and now they can't make chips.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 11:57 PM

'we might just be getting half the story about them brave royals on the alleged front line' Steve 0738

'A view is one thing. An unsupportable assertion is another entirely!' Steve 0815

.,,.,.

Long live the Steve!


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 04:48 AM

That is not an assertion, the. It's an expression of suspicion. One might have thought that, given your command of language, you'd have seen that.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 05:17 AM

Are you expressing a suspicion that Andrew and Harry were never on front line combat service?
What grounds do you have for that suspicion?
How do you suppose that their hundreds of comrades were silenced?

It is not a suspicion it is irrational blind prejudice.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: banjoman
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 05:56 AM

I take nothing away from the service given in the armed forces by Andrew/Harry/William and others. That was never my point. I simply do not accept the right of anyone to automatic rank and priviledge simplybecause of the ancestral line. I have great respect for harry and William as I think they both make an effort to be "Normal". I do not set aside the charitable works done by the Queen and others. I just feel that they should not have the automatic right of succession. I am not a killjoy and hope everyone who wants to enjoys the long holiday. For me its a chance to do some work on my latest banjo.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: GUEST,davemc
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 06:18 AM

Just shows how out of touch most folkies are: over 80% of Brits support the monarchy. I thought this was supposed to be music of the people...


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: GUEST,old git
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 06:21 AM

Spot on , Banjoman!
BTW "Not particulary a royalist" what evidence do you have that non-royalists are(a) dour and (b) in the minority ?

geoff t


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: GUEST,old git
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 07:14 AM

davemc
your source of this information??


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 07:16 AM

I guess most republicans know that a lot of people 'support' the monarchy - we are not out of touch with people in that sense. We simply don't want hereditary head of state.

As long as most people want the status quo, as democrats, we accept that position.

I think a related issue is how monarchists tell us what a great job the royals do and how we would be much worse off without them. We don't think the first makes much sense and we don't think the second is true.

We elect thousands and thousands of people across the country every year and when we don't like them we elect others. A good example are Mayors and Lord Mayors of towns and cities. Most have served the democratic system well and play a figuehead role in our towns and cities very well.

For those who think Elizabeth 2 and her family and special - you are right - look at the way they treated William & Harry's mum!

L in C#


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: GUEST,Marianne S.
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 09:31 AM

If you believe that royalty are somehow special and different to the rest of us . . .
If you believe that this special difference gives them the right to reign regardless of talent, ability or aptitude. . .
If you believe this right is transmitted through the bloodline to the nearest legitimate relative of the current monarch. . .

Then the current rightful King of Britain is an obscure Bavarian Prince - or possibly someone descended from an even early incumbent who got kicked out - and Mrs. Mounbatten has no right to a Jubilee of any kind because the magic wasn't transmitted to her as she is not descended from a nearest relative, but from George I, who was chosen not because he was nearest relative to the deposed James II, but because he was the person least like to cause problems for Parliament.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 12:44 PM

GUEST,old git: "your source of this information?? "

The republican-leaning newspaper of the chattering classes, The Guardian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/feedarticle/10250269


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 03:25 PM

""Hey Don, don't you ever suspect that, in the teensiest, weensiest way, we might just be getting half the story about them brave royals on the alleged front line?""

I do ""suspect that in the teensiest, weensiest way,"" I am seeing the double distilled envious maunderings of a small minded man who, instead of working to improve his own circumstances, sits moaning about those who are better off and wishing for their destruction.

There is no point in discussion with one so bitter and twisted.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 03:32 PM

""A view is one thing. An unsupportable assertion is another entirely!""

Then stop making them!

The military service of Andrew and Harry is very well documented and beyond dispute, as is the working life of the queen.

Of course you would undoubtedly be unaware of that fact, since you are so filled with hatred as to avoid any positive evidence like the plague.

Since you are so happy living in England as it is, why don't you shove off to one of the countries whose culture you prefer, say China or Russia.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 05:25 PM

bitter and twisted - that would be a great name for a cocktail

I'm thinking:-

large gin, roses lime, ice cubes, big fernet branca, teaspoon of jd - shaken


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 06:21 PM

In a frosted glass, a double measure of bile with a twist of bitter envy topped with a dash of vinegar and a wafer thin slice of malice. Shaken well and chilled to taste.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 06:23 PM

Thought for the Day!

Bitterness is like swallowing poison and expecting someone else to die.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: GUEST,Marianne S.
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 06:26 PM

I love logic and calm reasoned debate. After reading this I need one of Big Al's cocktails.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 07:13 PM

Fervant monarchists perhaps provide the most effective case for a republic. And indignant republicans undoubtedly provide the most effective case for retaining a hereditary monarchy.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 02:21 AM

nah! the royal family are a rotten lot, and the sooner we're shut of them the better. and all the injustice and and licensed nastiness they stand for.

But Don feels the way he does. You've got to make allowances for the fact that the rich and over privileged have brainwashed folk into thinking that the queen farts essence of roses. All our generation grew up looking at pictures of Prince Charles in his little kilt, his first day at school, sitting in his little toy austin car -we were told they were the bees knees - and some of us never really beat that mindset.

so stop being nasty to royalists. its not really their fault. and accept - they can't help being nasty to you - they are in a bad place philosophically -they find themselves having to defend inequality, which deep down we all know is plain wrong.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: GUEST,BobL
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 03:44 AM

Well, last time we tried a different system of government, it turned out the biggest boost the monarchy ever had. Eleven years was enough and we've never repeated the experiment.


Personally, I take the pragmatic view of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 04:33 AM

If you believe that royalty are somehow special and different to the rest of us .

No. Approval of our current system does not require anyone to believe the RF are a race apart.
Obviously it is just an accident of birth.
That really is obvious, though not to you obviously

the royal family are a rotten lot,

You also clearly believe there is something in their genes but in a bad way.
That is silly.
It is just an accident of birth.
No more or less "rotten" than any other family.


-we were told they were the bees knees - and some of us never really beat that mindset.
Really?
Not if capable of independent thought surely?


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 04:39 AM

Approval of our current system does not require anyone to believe the RF are a race apart.
Obviously it is just an accident of birth ...

I wouldn't want a doctor who got the job just because his dad was a doctor

I wouldn't want a car mechanic who got the job just because her mother was a car mechanic.

Is that any basis on which to appoint a head of state?


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 05:01 AM

"inequality, which deep down we all know is plain wrong." ~~~
.,,.

Speak for yourself, Al. I know no such thing however far down you dig. We are not all equal in any sense. Brad Pitt is better looking than I ever was; Karloff in his monster-makeup wasn't. I was a fairish goalkeeper in my youth, but never up to being a Joe Hart. My Uncles Alf & Dave were richer than my Uncle Hyam, but he could paint much better than either of them... equality-schmequality

Last GUEST: she is only Head of State in a formal sense, unlike an electrician or doctor who has to train & qualify; has no legislative function or power to reject laws made by those elected to do so. Hereditary principle as good as any for finding such a figurehead; and elected heads of state who are not figureheads bring all sorts of difficulties in their wakes. Democracy is probably, as the man said, a terrible system but less terrible than most others; but imperfect: don't forget that Hitler was appointed Chancellor by a perfectly democratically elected president. & she doesn't, for all the moans, cost more to maintain than the President of the USA with his White House & Camp David & motorcades & such.

Meanwhile, I say again, think of babies'n'bathwater, not fixing what ain't broke, Unintended Consequences ~~ & why not just make the best of the system we've got? Imperfect, but no more imperfect than all the others. If there was a perfect one, there would be an Arcadian Utopia somewhere in the world who had found it. Just show it to me.

~M~


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 05:04 AM

'the royal family are a rotten lot,

You also clearly believe there is something in their genes but in a bad way.
That is silly.
It is just an accident of birth.
No more or less "rotten" than any other family.'

Not really I used to work with a guy who was a choirboy at Windsor, and so for years he got to see them very close up - and he tells some pretty damning stories about their behaviour and attitudes. Never really felt one way or the other about them til then. I think they really do believe that they're made of superior stuff to the rest of us, and the sycophants sort of flesh out the fantasy for them.

But look down the front benches - both sides of the Hof C and see all those wellscrubbed English public school faces deciding whats best for us - and I think most sensible people have qualifications and/or doubts about the English class system......well one day we'll have start at the apex - which is the royal family.

England is tiny little island. And they only care about their bit - so a two bedroom flat in London costs up to a million quid, and there are parts of the northern England where nice houses are worthless. They're simply getting it wrong. It is broke - it does need fixing.

Oliver Cromwell was a nasty piece of work by all accounts - but that doesn't mean we can afford for things to stayas they are.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 05:42 AM

I think, with all respect Al, that you are confusing the system itself with those with the responsibility for working it. No doubt, in the royal family as anywhere else there are all sorts, from the hardworking and dignified and controlled keeping-of-her-thoughts-to-herself present Gracious Lady, who seems to me all-in-all to make a worthwhile job of the responsible postition she got landed with, to her obnoxiously stupid & snobbish & spiteful late sister, who seems from all accounts to have been a right royal king-size [implication intended? not sure] pain in the arse. So your choirboy friend would doubtless have seen & heard all aspects of such.

But the system itself, I say again, doesn't seem to me to be any more broke or in need of fixing than any of the others they have formulated &/or developed elsewhere ~~ all have the virtues & faults of their natures. If there is a faultless one, I repeat, where is it? Why has nobody ever succeeded in finding it? If not, why bust ourselve trying to fix the one we have rather than just striving to make the best of it, in all senses?

~M~


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 05:51 AM

Just so Al.
It is irrational to impute blame for the price of housing in London on the monarchy or class.
There is a shortage of housing exacerbated by a large rise in the population.
That is all the responsibilty of our elected politicians.
Likewise that social mobility, not just in politics, went into reverse.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 05:54 AM

Two excellent and measured posts there, Al. Quite a contrast to those from folks of opposite demeanour, generally people who are quite sensible most of the time but who suspend all their critical faculties as soon as a royal appears on the telly! Inexplicable...


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: GUEST,Marianne S.
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 06:03 AM

Last guest was me - sorry.

The president of the USA fulfills both roles - Head of State and Head of Government. Presumably he spends less time visiting primary schools and declaring things open. In legal terms the sovereign does indeed approve legislation and sign it into law. It's an interesting point about what would happen if s/he refused to do so.

The Irish seem to manage very well with separate elected Heads of State and Government.

If you don't believe the monarch to be divinely appointed, then s/he has no more right to rule than anyone else, and should stand for election.

As I see it, the current incumbent holds the rank because her ancestors were politically astute enough to rise to the top of the pile and stay there. She stays there because, like her more recent ancestors, she has been politically asute enough to re-brand 'The Royal Family' in a way acceptable during the 20th century. Whether this will continue further into the 21st century is another interesting question - as is the question of whether the younger family members actually want life in a gold plated goldfish bowl.

I'm more or less the same age as Charles. I've done a lot of the things I want to and got through most of the things I had to. There are still things I want and intend to do, but I am aware I'm winding down somewhat and I don't mind, because I've lived my life. He's waiting, as he has done for his whole life, for his mother to die so he can do the job he was trained for. Would I swop my pension and my terraced house for their millioms? Not if it meant their lifestyle. I like the freedom to do what I want. I like the freedom to express my opinions. I like the freedom to campaign for what I believe to be right.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 06:05 AM

An excellent and measured post Steve.
It did not further the debate though did it.
Are you aware of the pm facility?


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 06:13 AM

?


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 07:40 AM

Marianne S ~~ It was the President of the USA I had much in mind in writing of the disadvantages of an elected Citizen No 1, which can lead to all sorts of constitutional problems ~ as have frequently occurred, where the President can find himself at odds with Congress. I am not saying it a worse system; but like ours, and all the others, it has its pros & its cons. You over there are happy with it because it is what you are used to, and it works OK in a general way. Which is no doubt why a recent poll here found 80% of a sample of our citizens in favour of our system. The self-proclaimed 'democrats' who are making such a noise about all our disadvantages should bring their 'democratic' faculties to bear on that result.

And should remember also that, hereditary system or not, Elizabeth II was not born to rule, but had the job wished on her early in life, quite literally by a wicked uncle, and has most earnestly and conscientiously bent herself to fulfil the responsibilities which thus fell to her.

~M~


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 07:43 AM

As to the "democratic and equal" aspects of the matter: how many Presidents of the USA have actually been born in log cabins? Or in Inner-City tenements, for that matter?

Count them. None.

~M~


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: GUEST,Marianne S.
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 09:05 AM

Obviously it isn't clear from my posts, MtheGM, I'm over here not over there. I think there's a lot wrong with the American way of electing Presidents, not least that it isn't possible to succeed unless you have millions to spend on the campaign.

That doesn't alter the fact that I think a monarchy is wrong both on political grounds and what it does to the people themselves.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 09:16 AM

Which is no doubt why a recent poll here found 80% of a sample of our citizens in favour of our system. The self-proclaimed 'democrats' who are making such a noise about all our disadvantages should bring their 'democratic' faculties to bear on that result.

Well, you see, in our version of democracy, the, we don't generally do things by sampling the population on individual questions, apart, of course, from general elections. We elect the government we think we can trust most to be much better informed on issues that we can usually be individually and act accordingly, even if those actions go against the grain. If you want to cherry-pick issues that appear to have popular support, perhaps you'd care to reflect on whether you would like to live in a country in which everyone out of work would be regarded as a benefits scrounger and left to rot, in which we would still have hanging (preferably public), not to speak of flogging and compulsory conscription, and from which the blackies were all repatriated to Bongo-bongo Land. I suggest you go and ask some of your 80% how much they actually know about the royal family: what they cost us all, how rich they are, how they came to be where they are and how they gain access to all the best facilities in the nation by dint of nothing more than accident of birth. I'd be amazed if more than one out of your 80 knew a tenth of it. You are basically lionising mob mentality.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 09:26 AM

You are basically lionising mob mentality.

And you are lionising elite paternalism.
The liberal elite know what is best for everyone.
Close down the popular and successful CofE schools.
Abolish the popular and successful constitutional monarchy.
Ignore the will of the people.
What do we know?
We can never be as clever as you.
Right Steve?


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 09:42 AM

Possibly not in your case (well what did you expect me to say?). As for closing down schools, I believe I said that I was opposed to faith schools. If you think that means I think we should close down schools, well you'll have to go on thinking it, won't you? And if you think that I'm advocating ignoring the will of the people, well that's just another example of the somewhat infantile black-and-white thinking you appear to be exhibiting recently.

And, in every conceivable sense I can muster, I'm about the most un-elite person you could wish to meet.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 09:44 AM

I think Steve's should perhaps recognise his comment at 05 Jun 12 - 06:13 AM as his most eloquent summary of his views, and perhaps leave it at that.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 10:00 AM

Marianne S ~~ Sorry I misconceived your whereabouts; but my responses re my dissatisfactions with the US system remain, + my view of why they are in general happy with it, and why we are happy in general with ours [whatever fatuous arguments Herr Schatzy deploys to demonstrate that polls are not to be trusted ~~ just suppose the result had been the opposite, do you imagine he would have been so dismissive?] ~ because people tend to be content with what they have provided it is in general functioning with reasonable efficiency, and recognise the unwisdom of the upsetting of apple-carts. Babies vanish with bathwater. A fine mixed metaphor, I flatter myself; but 'twill serve.

~M~


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 10:13 AM

Who said anything about polls not to be trusted? Au contraire: I believe you when you tell me that your poll showed 80% in favour (though I suppose I'm not the only one around here who's seen different polls with different questions asked with different results, in particular showing that a large minority, or even a small majority, actually don't give a toss). It's just that we don't tend to run this country on the strength of vox pop polls. That happens to be a fact, not what I think should or shouldn't happen. You appear to be saying leave it alone, 80% of people think they great (according to my selected poll), and that's good enough for me. What I do think is that most of the people asked, if pressed, would actually know not very much at all about the royals: their wealth, how they came by it, how they got there and how they're entitled to such much more, by accident of birth, than the rest of us. Tendentiousness and ignorance make for fine bedfellows.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 10:18 AM

Obviously its all subjective, and after all we're just a load of oldsters - no need to get nasty about anything with each other.

However i do think there is a connection with the neglect that some parts of England, and some layers of English society have suffered and the class system.

I suppose I might be wrong. however I think it might be sensible to start anew. A written constitution. Finish with all the grandiosity and pomp of the Victorian age. Just start running ourselves like a modest sized country. Sort out our own problems - not Afghanistan, etc.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 11:10 AM

Old Waffen ~~ ain't he a caution? If a vote goes his way, a triumph for democracy. If not, it's because the mob are a load of ignoramuses with no grasp of the issues. Some democrat, eh? Honestly, we all ought to pay entertainment tax for the privilege of the amusement afforded by perusal of his drivelling lucubrations.

~M~

Hope that isn't abusive. If you think it is, SS ~~ well tough tittie.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 12:18 PM

You make infantile Nazi allusions, you belittle only yourself. Do continue.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 02:25 PM

If, Steve, you can make facetious links about my name, why can I not do the same with yours? No suggestion of Nazism on your part implied; merely the coincidence of your initials, as with your ref to mine ~~ which, however, as I pointed out at the time, more than merely coincidental but of course you didn't know that beforehand.

However, as it appears to cause you distress &/or offence, which by no means my intention, I shall desist forthwith from such name-calling. Meanwhile, how about some response to the points I have made, as to your odd & inconsistent views re democracy and majority opinion; and to the point made away back, which you undertook to consider & respond to in due course, as to the cut-off point at which ownership of property becomes IYO a culpable & immoral attribute as distinct from merely a possession?

Regards

~M~


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 02:34 PM

I rather thought it might be a typo for "Old Waffle".

It just seems to me that the monarchy seems a very marginal and irrelevant issue when it comes to reconstructing society so that it wasn't so unequal and unfair. It'd make virtually np difference, and much of tat difference could well tend to make things woose.

Privilege - if that's what it is - which is clealy aritrary and undeserved is liable to be far less harmful than privilege which is seen as earned.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 04:08 PM

I think palaces and huge unseen art collections and jewels and great wealth and grand titles are quite potent symbols, in this country where there are poor people dying on the streets, and pathetically small pensions (smaller for the heroes of WW2 than for their counterparts in the real SS) and other disgraceful examples of poverty.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 04:57 PM

If, Steve, you can make facetious links about my name, why can I not do the same with yours? No suggestion of Nazism on your part implied; merely the coincidence of your initials, as with your ref to mine ~~ which, however, as I pointed out at the time, more than merely coincidental but of course you didn't know that beforehand.

However, as it appears to cause you distress &/or offence, which by no means my intention, I shall desist forthwith from such name-calling. Meanwhile, how about some response to the points I have made, as to your odd & inconsistent views re democracy and majority opinion; and to the point made away back, which you undertook to consider & respond to in due course, as to the cut-off point at which ownership of property becomes IYO a culpable & immoral attribute as distinct from merely a possession?

Regards

~M~


Do continue to up the ante. I'm neither distressed nor offended. I invited you to carry on digging, if you recall. I have the hide of a rhino, old chap. Yes, there are issues we could discuss, no doubt, but I have better things to do than bite on your bait while you're so clearly harbouring nests of bees over something or other.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 05:08 PM

I fear I lack the privilege of the remotest idea of what you are on about, Stephen.

But please don't trouble to explain.

It really doesn't matter in the least.

Cheers

~M~


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 05:12 PM

Can't you read posts, then?


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 11:37 AM

The best reason for being a monarchy is we would have had Thatcher, Blair, Brown, and Cameron as presidents. Gog save us all....from them!


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 12:03 PM

President, prime minister - what's in a name?


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: GUEST,grumpy
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 12:34 PM

'Gog save us all....from them!'

Indeed, and Magog too I hope.


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Subject: Lyr Add: CORONATION CORONACH (Thurso Berwick)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 01:31 PM

One for the flag-waggers
Jim Carroll

CORONATION CORONACH—Scottish Breakaway
(Words: Thurso Berwick)

O, Scotland hesna got a King,
And hesna got a Queen.
For ye canny hae the second Liz
When the first yin's never been.

Chorus:
Nae liz the Twa, nae Lillibet the Wan,
Nae Liz will ever dae,
We'll mak oor land republican
In a Scottish breakaway.

Her man's cried the Duke o Edinbury,
He's wan o the Kiltie Greeks.
O, dinna blaw ma Kilts awa,
'Cos Lizzie weirs the breeks.
He's a handsome man an he looks like Don Juan,
He's beloved by the weaker sex,
But it disnae really matter a damn,
'Cos it's Lizzie signs the cheques.

Noo her sister Meg's got a bonnie pair o legs,
But she didnae want a German or a Greek,
Pair auld Peter wis her choice, but he didnae suit the boys,
So they sellt him up the creek.
Here, but Meg wis fly an she beat them by and by,
Wi Tony Hyphenated-Armstrong, ding! dong!
But behind the pomp an play, the question o the day,
Wis who the hell did Suzy Wong? yum! yum!

Sae here's tae the Lion, the bonny Rampant Lion,
An a lang streetch tae its paw,
Gie a Hampden Roar, an' we're oot the door:
- An ta-ta, ti Chairlie's maw.


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 02:36 PM

Fine pseudonym, Thurso Berwick. Used to know his real name, but like so much these geriatric days, can't call it to mind. Robin Hall used to sing that with great enthusiasm I remember.

The breakaway never happened, tho, did it? We are still saddled with all those Caledonian moaners: all a bit like Mudcat, really...

〠☺〠~M~〠☺〠


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 12 - 01:55 PM

Elvis PResely Blues. Jimmy Buffet


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Subject: RE: songs for the queen's big day
From: ollaimh
Date: 24 Jun 12 - 01:19 PM

how about willie dunn'd "ballad of crowfoot"

about the genocide committed by her hinney's red coats and anglican ministers against the aborigional people of north america and australia


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