Damned bloody depressing

Subject: RE: Damned bloody depressing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 03:52 AM

Yeh I could answer all the questions, but I'm not sure if its Justin Beiber, or Justin Bieber, or be bop a lula, come to that.

Subject: RE: Damned bloody depressing
From: Tootler
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 06:04 AM

I'm starting to get back responses to my questionnaire and, sure enough, people under 30 have trouble with it. A European girl could answer most of the classical music questions including knowing her classical music eras. American kids? Forget it. etc, etc, etc.

As I said earlier, so what??

When I was in my twenties my musical horizons were also pretty narrow.

I discovered early music when I was in my late thirties as a result of taking up the recorder again when my kids started it at school and it is now one of my main (but not sole) musical interests.

Don Firth had it spot on.

Subject: RE: Damned bloody depressing
From: Tootler
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 06:09 AM

I will say this for josepp. He doesn't do the classic troll trick of making a provocative statement and then, having stirred up a hornet's nest, runs. He stays to defend his corner.

I may not agree with him but I can respect that.

Subject: RE: Damned bloody depressing
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 07:44 AM

I don't see why having a broad knowledge of a wide range of music is morally superior to having a detailed knowledge of a single genre. Actually, a lot of people I know who enjoy a wide range of music don't really listen to it. Again, is it better to enjoy a lot of music at a fairly superficial level, or to listen properly to a narrower range?

The truth is that none of it matters, because it's entirely a matter for the individual. Some people like music, some don't. Personally, I'm not greatly interested in the visual arts, which would no doubt horrify some art enthusiasts. People are different - thank god. Get over it.

Subject: RE: Damned bloody depressing
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 03:05 PM

By the way:   Ringo Starr's real name is Richard Starkey.

No, I didn't look it up. Didn't have to. I knew that pretty much from the first appearances of the Beatles in this country, on "The Ed Sullivan Show."

". . . We have a really big shoe for you tonight. . . ."

Sullivan also introduced This lad into an unsuspecting world.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Damned bloody depressing
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 10:06 PM

I'm with Don here.

I'm into a wide variety of musical genres and regard myself as a "reasonably knowledgable layman". But when I was under 30, even though I was nearer to the eras severasl of the questions refer to than are today's under 30s, I would have had problems with some of them.

To berate youngsters for not knowing that "Bang A Gong" was originally a T Rex number is faintly ridiculous. As a 20 year old ~I had no idea that some of the songs recorded by rock or prog-rock bands were covers of old blues numbers.

I must have been 25 before I realised that "Crossroads" and "Going Up The Country" to name just 2 of many, weren't original to Cream and Canned Heat, and probably near 30 before I became aware that Barbara Ann was recorded by The Regents several years before The Beach Boys had success with it.

I also notice that the eras covered by Josepp's questionnaire essentially end in the mid-late 60s, so there's about a 45 year gap up to the modern day. Perhaps it says more about the biases in Josepp's own knowledge? Yes, a lot of modern music is crap, but so was a lot of the older stuff. In the 60s my own parents were aware of the "plastic" pop put out by bands like Freddie and The Dreamers and Herman's Hermits but blithely unaware of the more progressive or interesting stuff their kids were *actually* listening to. They'd never heard of Pink Floyd, The Nice or Fairport Convention at the time.

I suspect it's the same now. The "oldies" in my (and Josepp's) generation are aware through mainstream media of people like Justin Bieber, but some good stuff, put out by bands on their own labels, or on indie labels like Rough Trade or Unlabel (usually on vinyl as well as CD and download) passes almost all of us by.

Here's a couple for you Josepp, to be answered without looking them up:

- What bands did Katriona Gilmore and Jamie Roberts play for before concentrating on playing as a Duo?

- What other band does Katriona Gilmore currently play with in addition to the Gilmore-Roberts duo?

- What band does female violinist Geri Holton play with?

- What is Geri Holton's second instrument?

- What is the real name of British teenage blues artist/ Diddley Bow maker "BluesBeaten Redshaw"?

Subject: RE: Damned bloody depressing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 04:00 AM

To which I can only thumb my nose and 'awopbopalooma a wop bam boom!'

My turn.

What oats did Roy Roger's horse Trigger invariably turn his nose up at - and quite distinctly , on one occasion, say 'Nay!' - or it could have been, 'Neighhhh!'

Opinions were divided. but someone at Berkley has done a brilliant PhD thesis on this very subject.

Like many major controversies(including the one under discussion) there DOES seem to be no one final definitive answer that we can turn to, as the absolute truth on this vexed matter.

Sad, really.....

Subject: RE: Damned bloody depressing
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 09:10 AM

Naylor doesn't get it but that's not surprising. I berated no one. My point is that younger people today are not being educated in music sppreciation today to the point that stuff that should be easily known by them is something they are not even aware of. The quiz was very general and an attempt to see if they were educated in music properly or by pop culture. Not many people would know Salieri taught Schubert but I was trying to see how many people really think he murdered Mozart because of the Amadeus movie. Some people here suspected it wasn't true and chose something else and that's all I was really looking for. But some respondents under 30 really do think Salieri confessed to killing Mozart (actually two thought it and the rest never answered it).

Beyond that question, none of the others should have been hard. Asking about diddley-bows is a bunch of diddley-shit. The questions were general and deal with our culture and therefore have some importance and should not have required any serious amount of study. No American under 30 should have any trouble knowing who wrote of the Gettysburg Address (although I assure you many Americans don't know). No American should have to admit to not knowing the first verse of the National Anthem but many don't. People today think culture is an island unconnected to what came before and with no concern of what is to come next.

I don't believe I should have stumped anyone by asking them to name a Holland-Dozier-Holland song but I did. I mean, christ, they wrote some of the most well-known music of the 20th century and we're already forgetting who they are. Do you really think most Americans have the tiniest interest in Beethoven or Bach when music written 40 years ago in their own country has already been forgotten?

Subject: RE: Damned bloody depressing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 02:21 PM

I got a lot of my education in shops reading covers for LP records that I couldn't afford. Children today are disadvantaged in that respect. They can download it - in those days though, you had an authority telling you what was on offer nad how to look for it. Were you to ever get the chance to hear it!

You couldn't afford the music - but much more intoxicating were the words of pseudo intellectualism and intellectual snobbery. Ah! Those were the days......but to be young was very heaven!

Subject: RE: Damned bloody depressing
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 02:55 PM

I agree, Al, that the new technologies have played a role in the dumbing down. I do miss the days of 12-inch LPs. I mean I love the digital techonology and all that but all the fun has been taken out of record hunting. And, yes, a lot of kids, probably most, don't even buy CDs anymore--they just download them or get them from their friends. No record reviews, no liner notes, no nothing. Even with CDs, the liner note print is so damn small I can't even read it half the time.

I think it makes music appreciation classes all the more needed but I don't see it happening. Kids today can't even do math or science in this country.

Subject: RE: Damned bloody depressing
From: johncharles
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 04:04 PM

what really depresses me is grumpy old men. John

Subject: RE: Damned bloody depressing
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 08:53 PM

True, John...and what Josepp doesn't realise is that an awful lot of new indie music IS released on vinyl. All my children, and all their friends, have decks as well as digital devices. Normally if you buy a vinyl disk you get a digital download included in the price. And the vinyl does have artwork and sleeve notes, just as in the "old days".

Subject: RE: Damned bloody depressing
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 02:53 AM

Id doesn't seem very sensible or fair to berate youngsters for not knowing all the music of past decades etc. Heck the early 60s were 50 years ago! I suspect many of the folk who attended the Cavern to watch the Beatles would have had limited knowledge of what music was around in 1912 etc. I've got a 16 year old son who is really into music and a hell of a good guitarist and it is great watching him discover things even if some of it is stuff most people over 30 or 40 would know pretty well. Once he wants to listen to something he has all the facility to delve into it though. If he wants to listen to what an artist is like then he can log on to the on-line music service we subscibe too and the likelyhood is that many of the said artist's albums are there to download free of charge to him at the press of a button! Plus he can browse youtube to see what the artist is like. Let's get real these are brilliant facilities that we all would have lapped up. I had a 36 mile round trip to our nearest record shop and often came back with an album (which I'd spent a sizeable chunk of my teenage income on) which turned out to be not so great as I'd expected it to be!

Subject: RE: Damned bloody depressing
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 07:29 PM

Okay, this'll take you back a notch.

What was the name of Hopalong Cassidy's horse?

What was the name of the editor of the newspaper that Clark Kent (Superman) worked for?

How are the Lone Ranger and the Green Hornet related? They are, you know!

Oh! This may offer a clue to that question. What was the Lone Ranger's real name? (Not the actor who played him on the radio, the Lone Ranger's real name? And for MANY extra points, how did he become "the Lone Ranger?")

Is Batman really a "superhero?"

And where the hell did I leave my brand new Shubb capo?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Damned bloody depressing
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 11:36 PM

/////How are the Lone Ranger and the Green Hornet related? They are, you know!/////

That's easy. Both started on WXYZ right here in Detroit.

Subject: RE: Damned bloody depressing
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 12:31 AM

[The following exchange is from Youtube. I am the OP and you can see what people responded. Some of these young people are wiser than many who didn't know anybody than to display their ignorance on this thread.]

Oh how spoiled I was in the 80s. I didn't like this song when it came out. Now after listening to all the worthless shit garbage fucking up the airwaves today, this sounds fantastic. I'd give anything to back to this level cuz it is just shit today.


You are such a close minded individual.


But I'm a close-minded individual with taste.

Someone said I was closed minded when I said Im 24 years old and love music from the 80s instead of today's music..

I was a hardcore punker in the 80s so I considered this song to be all wimped out although it was admittedly catchy. But if I heard a band do this today I'd think, "Say, they're pretty good! Better than the shit other bands are putting out." I didn't know how good I had it. I thought there would always be variety and integrity in music so I could be choosy. I don't know what the hell happened. It's just sickening though.

This may be my time and generation (22yo) but I completely agree. My family raised me on classics from the 60s, 70s, and 80s. I picked a few things up on my own in the 90s, but I have always thought the 80s styles were my cup of tea. (Of course, I'm talking about music... I don't think I'll be loading my hair with hair-spray.) It really upsets me where the artistic genres are going: movies, music, books, etc. It all seems to be dying.

The 90s was the last great decade for music and television. Both turned to shit about the same time. Both sacrificed quality to maximize profits. It upsets me that people have settled for this and don't see anything wrong with it. Maybe it's my punk training talking but our culture has been hijacked by corporate mediocrity.

Except scrubs and two and a half men ever other comedy show was shit , except friends that ended in 2004 but started 1994

Subject: RE: Damned bloody depressing
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 01:26 AM

No serious takers, eh?

Hoppy's horse was named "Topper."

The editor of The Daily Planet, the newspaper that Clark Kent and Lois Lane worked for was Perry White.

And there is a little more to the relationship between the Lone Ranger and the Green Hornet than starting on the same station.

The Lone Ranger and the Green Hornet. First of all, John Reid, a Texas Ranger, became the Lone Ranger when he and five other Texas Rangers rode out to round up the infamous Cavandish Gang. The Cavandish Gang ambushed them and left all six of them for dead. But an Indian named Tonto happened on the scene of the carnage and found that one of the rangers, though badly wounded, was still alive. They talked matters over, and Tonto buried the five rangers and then dug a sixth grave and put a marker on it as well.

One of the dead rangers was Dan Reid, John Reid's brother. John Reid cut a piece of material from his dead brother's vest and made himself a "Domino Mask" from it.

The only one of the Texas Rangers to have survived the treacherous bushwhacking, John Reid was—the Lone Ranger.

After he had been nursed back to health by Tonto, he donned the mask to hide his true identity, and he and Tonto went after the Cavandish Gang—and successfully brought them to justice. Then, the two of them went on the fight for law and order in the early West.

Late in the radio series, the two were joined by the sixteen-year-old nephew of the Lone Ranger, Dan Reid, Jr., and had many adventures with his uncle and his faithful Indian companion.

When Britt Reid—the son of Dan Reid, Jr., and the Lone Ranger's great-nephew—becomes editor and publisher of the crime-fighting Daily Sentinel newspaper, emulating his great uncle, he adopted the secret masked man identity of the Green Hornet and fought crime, not only behind the editorial desk, but out there where it existed.

Initially, Kato, a martial arts expert and Britt Reid's chauffer, valet, and "houseboy", accompanied the Green Hornet in his crime fighting adventures. Kato started out as Japanese, but in when the Japanese invaded China in 1939 and relations between the United States and Japan deteriorated, Kato somehow strangely morphed into being Filipino.

So now you know.   

Is Batman really a "superhero?" No. Not in the idea that he, like other costumed and masked crime fighters, has superpowers. He doesn't. He is a normal human being, but through rigorous training became very athletic, managed to learn a number of exotic hand-to-hand combat methods. He's just very good at what he does, but he is not endowed with "superpowers" like the Marvel Comics stable of "Superheroes."

I'm talking here about the old Detective Comics Batman. The first Batman movie with Michael Keating was very well done, but I haven't actually followed some of the mythology that has been piled on by some of the more recent Batman movies. My info comes from Bob Kane's original conception of the character.

And my Shubb capo? How the hell did it get in the refrigerator!??

Don Firth

P. S. Since I was born shortly after the Big Bang, I used to listen to these programs. On the radio. You know, like television, only you had to make the pictures yourself, in your head. For reference material for anyone who wants to do some in depth reading on the subject—two paperback books I picked up some time in the Sixties, The Great Radio Heroes and All in Color for a Dime, about comic books.