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Bad days in Seattle folk scene

Haruo 05 Jun 12 - 04:03 PM
saulgoldie 05 Jun 12 - 04:06 PM
Haruo 05 Jun 12 - 04:13 PM
gnu 05 Jun 12 - 04:29 PM
Leadfingers 05 Jun 12 - 04:39 PM
CupOfTea 05 Jun 12 - 04:39 PM
Rapparee 05 Jun 12 - 05:05 PM
Deckman 05 Jun 12 - 06:23 PM
Acme 05 Jun 12 - 07:00 PM
Genie 05 Jun 12 - 08:27 PM
Nigel Paterson 06 Jun 12 - 11:20 AM
Bobert 06 Jun 12 - 11:34 AM
stallion 06 Jun 12 - 11:51 AM
Genie 06 Jun 12 - 01:35 PM
Sir Roger de Beverley 06 Jun 12 - 02:49 PM
Acme 06 Jun 12 - 04:04 PM
Don Firth 06 Jun 12 - 04:21 PM
Deckman 06 Jun 12 - 05:07 PM
GUEST,mg 06 Jun 12 - 06:03 PM
John P 07 Jun 12 - 10:37 AM
Don Firth 07 Jun 12 - 07:19 PM
GUEST,mg 07 Jun 12 - 07:28 PM
Stewart 07 Jun 12 - 08:07 PM
Don Firth 07 Jun 12 - 09:10 PM
ollaimh 07 Jun 12 - 09:14 PM
Haruo 08 Jun 12 - 12:52 PM
Don Firth 08 Jun 12 - 02:02 PM
Deckman 08 Jun 12 - 03:31 PM
Stewart 08 Jun 12 - 04:04 PM
Don Firth 08 Jun 12 - 04:11 PM
Deckman 08 Jun 12 - 04:21 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 08 Jun 12 - 08:36 PM
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Subject: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Haruo
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 04:03 PM

A horrific day in Seattle impacting our folk music community. The initial shootings took place at a coffeeshop that is a folk music venue. And a friend of mine in the Seattle Esperanto Society is the teacher of one of the daughters of one of the women killed.

And on top of that, Ruby, the teenage daughter of one of the owners of Couth Buzzard Books, another Seattle folk venue, died this past week of Burkitt's lymphoma. (obit)

Very rough.


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: saulgoldie
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 04:06 PM

Wow! So sorry to hear this. Thoughts and prayers.

Saul


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Haruo
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 04:13 PM

Deb Seymour announces benefit for/at Couth Buzzard in this post on the FRET Aid Facebook page:
There will a benefit concert on June 23rd at the bookstore to try and raise some badly needed funds to offset some really crushing medical bills. For those of you who don't know, the Couth Buzzard has a fabulous open mic every Wednesday and live music every weekend. Theo and his crew have offered the North Seattle Music music community such a great free place to perform for a long time and it would be nice to see it get some support back. Sorry to dump this out here on top of what has been a horrid week of deaths and killings in the Seattle music community... if you are interested in performing at the benefit, please contact Stewart Hendrickson
Address is 8310 Greenwood Ave N, Seattle.


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: gnu
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 04:29 PM

Shocking. Terrible. Sad.


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Leadfingers
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 04:39 PM

Sadly I can think of about six thousand reasons NOT to support the benifit - AND a LOT of sea too . The Folk Scene can do without nasties like the shooting happening in our litlle patches >


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: CupOfTea
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 04:39 PM

My heart aches with you. I think of Seattle as such a grand place for folk music & I've enjoyed the people I've met from there over the years for their enthusiasm and sense of community. I could so clearly see how this would devastate the open mic communities I participate in here - so clearly that even the empathy hurts.

I further know the heartache of dealing with Burkitt's. The American version hits the young, and it's so teasing that so many recover from it completely. My darling husband lost to it after 6 months fighting, when he was 26. You are fortunate to have community, and people to grieve with. Making an effort to be with, and cherish, those in your community helps ease the burden of the grief and shock that will take time to recede from the front of your thoughts. I wish your benefit much success - pouring positive action over grief looks like the best possible route to take.

Wishing you much music and much community,
Joanne in Cleveland


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 05:05 PM

I can't get there, but I'm supporting you all.


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Deckman
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 06:23 PM

These are indeed very sad times for many in Seattle. Over this last few days there has been a rash of shootings, senseless murders and mayhem.

Seattle weeps now. bob (deckman)nelson


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Acme
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 07:00 PM

I see Mudcat's Stew Hendrickson is involved with the fundraiser. Thanks, Stew. My parents both enjoyed the Couth Buzzard. I believe I have a sweatshirt from there my Mom sent many years ago.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Genie
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 08:27 PM

So sorry to hear about Ruth's death, Haruo.   I didn't know her, but I've really appreciated the Couth Buzzard as a venue for hearing good local music with the Seattle folk community.   My condolences to her family, including her folk music family.

I was staying in Seattle just a few blocks from that coffee shop when the senseless shootings happened.   It's about a short block from The Trading Musician instrument & accessories shop, where I've been a customer from time to time.    It was the latest in a string of outrageous shootings like this in Seattle, and it hits home even harder when it happens so close by and also to communities like the folk music community, where I'm just a degree of separation from some of the victims.   

These losses must really be hitting the folk music community in my 'second home' very hard.

Genie


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 11:20 AM

Desperately tragic, brutal & cruel beyond belief. As a Brit. who began his Music Career from within the 60s Folk Revival in the UK, my heart goes out to You All,
                              Seattle...holding You in my Thoughts,
                                                                                       Nigel Paterson.


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 11:34 AM

That was terribly messed up... Used to be that when severely ill people could get committed with "green warrents"... These days the bullet has to have left the barrel of the gun before there is intervention...

I understand that this guy had been acting out and picking fight with people for several days prior to the murders...

I'm sorry for ya'lls/our loss...Sniff...

B~


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: stallion
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 11:51 AM

I was in Seattle at the time it all happened, as a brit, and I think most brits would agree, I am appalled that the US laws are so lax about gun ownership.... I have the Charlton Heston speech ringing in my ears "From my dead hand..." This guff about right to bear arms malarky in the constitution is as outdated as it is to burn witches, seems to me a whole hearted reluctance to let go of their prosthetic penis. So when is the US state going to grow up and get tough on gun ownership?


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Genie
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 01:35 PM

Peter, as long as big money is allowed to buy our politicians and our elections, the US is never going to be able to enact sensible gun laws.


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 02:49 PM

I left Seattle on May 22nd but had visited that venue the week before. What an awful thing to happen.

R


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Acme
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 04:04 PM

stallion, that day is past. There are too many in circulation to ever get "control" of them.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 04:21 PM

The Second Amendment states:
A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a Free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Forgive me, but I fail to see how many individual people packing firearms these days constitute a "well-regulated Militia."

We have what, essentially, was intended by the Constitution as a "well-regulated Militia" already. It's each individual state's National Guard.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Deckman
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 05:07 PM

I think that Seattle today is a very sad place. It's especially sad for me as I grew up in the area just south of the city. In the 40's and 50's, Seattle was a place of "neighborhoods." Great places, great people, great fun.

As the city grew, more problems have come with more people. No surprise there. But today's political climate in Seattle is beyond belief.

The present mayor is at war with all cars. He has succeeded in banning most private vehicles from any affordable parking. That's fine if you feel safe, or have the physical ability to ride public transportation, to "downtown. I strike out on both issues.

These days, "Bride Judy" and I go to Seattle rarely. And when we do, it's only to the safe homes of a few friends who live in "quiet neighborhoods."

For several years now, I have turned down paying gigs in Seattle. It's no longer a safe place. I will not even let my car head down there after dark.

bob(deckman)nelson ... still hiding out in Everett ... 30 miles north of Seattle


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 06:03 PM

I think the National Guard is not going to help when a shooter starts to shoot. The only hope anyone has is either an ambush from behind if he or she is dumb enough to stand still or another shooter from the good guy side. mg


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: John P
Date: 07 Jun 12 - 10:37 AM

In Washington state it is illegal to deny a concealed weapons permit to anyone who has not committed a crime. The shooter in this case was insane, and everyone around him knew it. Were it legal to have been performed, any kind of background check except for looking up felony convictions would have convinced any sane person that he should not have been given a permit to own a gun, much less carry one in public. We are not allowed to have even that much control over who is standing next to us in a restaurant with a loaded gun.

mg, I think the point of the National Guard being the Constitutional militia is that it implies that the number of people with guns in public would be very small due to guns in public being illegal. The need for help when a shooter starts to shoot would be extremely rare. Yes, people could still get guns illegally, but it would be a lot harder and would require people like the shooter in this case to become criminals before they could get a gun. Given that a gun in the home of a law-abiding citizen is four times more likely to be used on a family member or friend than on an armed burglar or rapist, I'll take my chances with most gun ownership being illegal.

While I'm not quite as vehement about visiting Seattle as Bob is (I work there), there are parts of town that I simply won't go to, and I won't go downtown at night. I feel like my right to live in a secure society is being trampled by people who can't read the Second Amendment and who spend vast sums of money to support gun violence.


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Jun 12 - 07:19 PM

Back in the mid-1960s, one of my guitar pupils was an ex-Marine who had developed a taste for competitive target shooting. I joined him frequently at a local shooting range where we burnt a lot of ammo and poked a lot of holes in paper.

But he began taking on some of the characteristics of a real gun-nut. He had a concealed weapons permit and he carried a Colt .45 automatic. On a couple of occasions, he almost DID it.

One time a friend was coming to visit. The friend knew that—let's call him "Larry"—and his wife were out, but would be back soon, so he parked near their place and waited. When he saw their car pull up, he got out and walked over to it.

Larry caught a glimpse of someone approaching his car in the rear-view mirror, and in a flash, he was out of the car, crouching, and holding the .45 in a two-handed combat grip, with the sights on the friend's chest.

He just about shat a yellow brick when he realized what he'd almost done.

It was Larry's wife who told me about it. It scared the hell out of her too.

On another occasion, he though he was assisting the police who were trying to apprehend a couple of people who were trying to drive away after dinging a parked car. Once again, Larry hauled out his trusty hawg-leg, stepped out in front of the couple's car, dropped into a crouch, and pointed the cannon at their windshield in a two-handed combat hold.

The police arrested the couple. AND Larry. The judge confiscated his beloved .45 auto and rescinded his concealed weapons permit—and gave him on helluva dressing down in the courtroom. What the police were trying to apprehend the couple for was nowhere near serious enough to warrant the use of lethal force. If Larry had shot someone in that situation, HE would have been the one facing a prison sentence or worse.

Larry's trouble—and that of a number of people I've met who are gung-ho about "packing heat"—and, I am sure, Trayvon Martin's killer as well—is that since they have the gun, they want to SHOOT someone!

Under Larry's influence, I got a concealed weapons permit and carried a tidy little .380 cal. Walther PPK (James Bond handgun), but I've long since let the permit lapse, and the pistol itself is safely stashed away.

What mg seemed to be envisioning—as do a number of people, many of whom advocate going armed—is that if you find yourself in a situation such as that in the Seattle coffee shop, you can stop the killers in their tracks by drawing your trusty boom-boom, and taking them out with a few well-placed shots.

Looks good in a TV drama, but in real life it's likely to get even more people shot.

Not that many people are trained in matters of combat shooting and are more likely to add to the mayhem, or of shooting off one of their own toes than they are of stopping someone on a shooting rampage.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 07 Jun 12 - 07:28 PM

I fail to see how it could get more people shot in some situations..they generally keep shooting until everyone is dead it seems. Maybe not. mg


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Stewart
Date: 07 Jun 12 - 08:07 PM

That was a real tragedy in north Seattle just a few miles from where I live. I didn't know any of the victims, but friends of mine did know them.

That said, I don't think Seattle is any worse than other U.S. cities. I hosted our weekly open mic last night in Greenwood area (Couth Buzzard Books) - no problem. This afternoon my wife and I took a city bus (almost door-to-door service and no parking problems) downtown to the Seattle Art Museum, and had lunch in the Pike Place Market - again no problem. Never felt threatened. But I would feel better if there were fewer guns around here. Every time something like this happens, it seems more people go out and buy more guns - that's not good.

Cheers, S. in Seattle


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Jun 12 - 09:10 PM

If I'm moseying through some business district or other somewhat crowed area, I'm far less endangered by some psycho with a gun than I am by punks on skateboards!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: ollaimh
Date: 07 Jun 12 - 09:14 PM

that's horrible. i didn't even see the news, summer is here and early and i've been away from the tv. i used to love the seasttle folk scene. back then it was the last exit and another coffe house i've forgotten the name of, in north seattle, and a folk instrument store that had great stuff. and of course i played northwest folk life for seven years.

when i did sca stuff out there i was amazed that the americans were pissed off that they couldn't bring their guns across the border.it seems hard to believe that anyone needs to carry a hand gun, or any gun for any reason other than hunting. in was a copetitive shooter for the north nova scotia highlanders militia when i was a teen, i was in their top five target shooters, and didn't own or need a gun.(they provided the target rifles).

however many americans are gun happy.

it's so quiet here in new brunswick and nova scotia, i may be bored occasionally but i prefer being bored to worrying about who is carrying a gun


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Haruo
Date: 08 Jun 12 - 12:52 PM

I agree with most of what Stewart said about Seattle, and with Don on the fact that skateboards endanger my well-being more frequently than guns do. Er... skateboarders...
Skateboards don't endanger people
SKATEBOARDERS endanger people!
Seriously, if I'm taking the bus home from the Northwest Seaport Shanty Sing (as I hope to tonight) which involves changing buses at Third and Pine, I feel at serious risk of serious injury every time because of the skateboarders (not all of whom really do know what they're doing) in the vicinity of Westlake Center.


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Jun 12 - 02:02 PM

I travel the neighborhood in an electric wheelchair. When I'm on Broadway Avenue East, I have to be particularly alert because of skateboarders and people with cell phones. I can't go for more than half a block without having to yell at someone chattering on a cell phone and not paying attention to what's around them, or they're wind up in my lap!

I'm looking forward to the day when I see one of these zombies with a cell phone grafted to their ear walk forehead first into one of the metal light poles along Broadway. They make a very pleasant "BONG!!"

There are curb cuts (short ramps) on all of the corners. When I'm using one of these ramps to cross the street, I've been sworn at by skateboarders who think the city put them there for their use!

I once saw some kid on a skateboard (pants at half-mast) zooming downhill in the middle of Pine Street past the Paramount theater—right in the middle of heavy traffic—heading west. He was moving fast, weaving in an out between cars. He had a number of very busy cross-streets to negotiate before he plowed through the north end of the Pike Place Market, bounced off the viaduct, and somersaulted into Elliot Bay. I've often wondered how that journey ended.

If the kid ended up the way he could easily have, it most definitely would have merited a Darwin Award nomination.

Actually, I should point out two things:   1) even though Seattle has experienced a seven-fold increase in gun related homicides within the last couple of years, it still has the lowest rate of such incidents in cities of comparable size; and 2) these shooting incidents are not actually related to the Seattle folk music scene.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Deckman
Date: 08 Jun 12 - 03:31 PM

Don ... I bed to differ with you on your last point ... I feel they ARE related to the Seattle fok music scene in that where you have the greatest numbers of people, you have the greatest risk. Witness the most recent shooting at the NW Folk Festival. bob(deckman)nelson


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Stewart
Date: 08 Jun 12 - 04:04 PM

Here's a response by the Seattle community to the recent gun violence.

Cheers, S. in Seattle


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Jun 12 - 04:11 PM

But the causal connection is "the greatest number of people." No causal connection with folk music gatherings per se.

The shooting that took place near the Seattle Center during the Forklift Festival turned out to be gang-related. And it wasn't actually on the Center grounds, it happened on Broad Street, which goes by the Center. One guy, a passer-by who had nothing to do with the altercation, got hit in the leg (Great shooting, there, Wyatt Earp!!). He said he didn't even know he'd been hit until someone told him his leg was bleeding.

I wouldn't stop going to folk festivals on that account. Although I don't really like mob-scenes like the Forklift Festival. Especially when you have to search to find the folk music among all the garage bands and berzerk drummers.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: Deckman
Date: 08 Jun 12 - 04:21 PM

One thing I'm appreciating a lot these last few years is the ABSCENCE of shootings in my home. bob


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Subject: RE: Bad days in Seattle folk scene
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 08 Jun 12 - 08:36 PM

Seattle ... like the state of Maine....

Has one of the world's best examples of "open government."

http://www.seattle.gov/police/records/default.htm

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

mudcat has retreated...advanced and retreated again


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