BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)

Subject: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jun 12 - 05:47 PM

Soooo? Whaddya think?

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 08 Jun 12 - 07:26 PM

I think Germany may well win it. We shall see though. There are plenty of other sides with enough talent to do the job. No side is going to play well and be lucky in six consecutive games, so it will go to the side which has the most momentum (and luck) in two weeks time. This is probably the weakest England squad to go to a major tournament for over twenty years. Mercifully the expectations are lower this time around - which is a healthy sign of realism. Taking any more than three points from the group stages would be a fine achievement - and no one should really get upset if England do worse than that. Ireland look well organised and with a run of luck they could surprise us all.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jun 12 - 07:32 PM

I have NO basis for predictions. I'll just cheer for ENG and IRL to start. In any case, it's about watching good football, innit?

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jun 12 - 03:27 PM

The German v Portugal game is actually on TV here now! We seldom get good coverage.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 09 Jun 12 - 05:29 PM

That was the first one I have seen too. It was no classic, but there was plenty of skill on show, if not much free flowing football. Germany deserved to win on balance and had some deserved luck on the way. It will be interesting to see what Holland have to put up against them on Wednesday.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jun 12 - 06:38 PM

The sched.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 10 Jun 12 - 04:43 AM

Thanks Gary. I have bookmarked that link. I am not sure yet whether I shall watch England tomorrow. This is our weakest team for many years and I fear we are in for a right mauling this time around!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 10 Jun 12 - 07:41 PM

I cannot believe the yellow cards. It was obvious that the intentions on three of four fouls on Iniesta were to injure him. Absolutely sickening. Should they have been red? or am I over the top on this?

Please... I am a Canuck and I don't know a lot about football so take it easy and educate me. Thanks in advance.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 11 Jun 12 - 04:16 PM

I would have to see the incidents again , so for the time being I had better not comment too much. It does seem hard to be sure what the intent behind the tackles was. These players are so strong and they move so fast that a very slight difference in timing can make the difference between a perfect tackle and a ghastly foul.
I watched the second half of the England game tonight and I felt that England performed reasonably considering the dearth of talent available to the current manager.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 11 Jun 12 - 07:31 PM

I agreewith your comment but what I THINK I saw was gahstly.

I also only caught the second half... I thought England performed very well from about 55 to 70 and then the French precision passing took their monmentum away. The ability of the French to keep possesion in tight quarters is quite amazing to watch.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 12 - 01:31 PM

England were lucky to come away with a result. They defended deep in their own half the entire game and really only looked to catch France on the break. Welbeck and Oxlade-Chamberlain were really the only players who played with any confidence as far as I could see and they are two of the youngest players. I think the stats speak for themselves France 19 attempts on goal 15 on target. England 3 attempts on goal 1 on target.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Den
Date: 12 Jun 12 - 01:38 PM

Sorry, GUEST above was me.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 12 Jun 12 - 03:27 PM

I can't disagree with that Den. France ought to have been the better team because they had more talent at their disposal. I think that most teams who play against teams who they know are better than themselves sit back and defend. A part of me says this is cheating, but this has long been a part of the game. England were lucky not to be well beaten, but they did play with a fair bit of guts and determination to get a draw. We have often seen better players do less and lose! All credit to them for sticking to it last night.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 12 Jun 12 - 06:28 PM

I am taken aback by the crap being thrown at the Russians by the crowds. Yes, "it" goes back many years but to whistle and boo on every possession and to start fights and violence in public venues is not in the spirit of football competition or in moving forward to better relations. This is a sporting event... not a chance to beat the shit of someone who had nothing to do with what happened in the past.

Am I wrong in my assessment? in my sadness that I think this sullies the games?

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,cujimmy
Date: 12 Jun 12 - 07:26 PM

I was thinking myself - a good outside bet would be Russia - il go for them - lets see

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: michaelr
Date: 12 Jun 12 - 07:39 PM

I agree, gnu.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 12 Jun 12 - 08:02 PM

Russia does look like a winner. Veterans and talented youth. Very smart offense and defense... fluid according to play. I was surprised at their waning in the last "quarter"... almost as if they became terribly cautious and were satisfied with the tie... maybe that is because of the veterans and knowing they had to become reserved due to the average age of their players?

BTW... I only say such because of the commentators' comments... I didn't look up the ages or player profiles.

In any case, I hope all the shit with the violent fans and thugs gets sorted.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 03:35 AM

I couldn't agree more gnu. I have often said before that the real "sport" of hooligans is not football - or come to that ice-hockey, rugby or darts - it is fighting. It is a tribal urge among some young men which offers excitement, a sense of common purpose and a chance of breaking out of the usual social restraints and rules which inhibit them. I think what we really need is a World Hooligan Championships so that these aresholes can beat each other up away from fans of other sports. It could be held perhaps on a disused industrial estate or somewhere in the California Desert and the participants could be allowed to proceed with their preferred line of activity unfettered by the restraints which the rest of us prefer. Until that happens, I fear they will always attach themselves to large social gatherings (such as football matches) where they can target the "other tribe" as enemies rather than sporting opponents. It is not a football problem, it is a society problem which has infested football.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 07:37 AM

"I am taken aback by the crap being thrown at the Russians by the crowds." There is no excuse for violent behaviour which I think came mainly from the Poles but at the same time there was an element of provocation so some blame has to with the Russians too. It had been known for some days that thousands of Russians were planning to march through Warsaw to commemorate "Russia Day" and they had been told that it would be viewed as provocative by some and that violence was possible. Likewise there was a massive banner unfolded prior to the game which took up a huge area which proclaimed "this is Russia". Again unfurling that massive banner in Warsaw could be viewed by some Poles as an attack on the idea of Polish delf determination. It seems both sides could do with an injection of common sense and restraint. Booing the away team by the home crowd is not unusual when it is close rivals!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 08:46 AM

It is still boorish though Allan, and I detest it when English "fans" boo the away team's national anthem at Wembely. Those bastards make us all look like small minded bigots.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 10:41 AM

"It is still boorish though Allan," Yes I quite agree. Just because it is common (ie the booing) doesn't mean it is good behaviour!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 01:51 PM

Amen to that!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: michaelr
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 03:25 PM

I predict Germany to be the winner (hmm, long shot that, eh?). The most exciting and entertaining match so far was Sweden vs Ukraine - great pace, very few fouls, and impressive ball skills. That's why I like the game!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 08:37 PM

I think Germany will win the tournament too. It is not a particularly exciting team, but they are in the habit of getting the job done. There is a ruthless functionality about them, which I do not think any other team can match. They are well drilled and well managed. At the moment I can not see any of the "flair" teams beating them.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 14 Jun 12 - 07:56 AM

And indeed the Germans march on...

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 14 Jun 12 - 03:47 PM

The "German Efficiency" is certainly evident. Still too early to predict a winner but I am leaning toward Germany at this point.

In the end, I just want Portugal to not win. I just can't stand Renaldo The Diva. Yes, I know that is a very unsportsmanlike thing to say but he is worse than me in that aspect.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 02:27 AM

Spain the current World and European Champions put on a mightily impressive show last night. Saying that anything can happen in this game. Who'd have predicted either a Greek or Danish win during the group rounds of their rspective succesful campaigns.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Musket
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 04:18 AM

The reality may well be that Germany win. (If France kick up a gear, especially Riberi, they could stand a good chance too.)

But not wishing to miss the point...

Of Course England are going to win it. I have every faith in them and won't hear anything otherwise.

(The reason we have spectator sport with partisan fans in the first place????)

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 04:35 AM

Well Ian, let's see if the Swedes get confused by England's "Hoof it up to the big men" plan this evening!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 05:10 AM

That Dutch goal was the best I've seen. right between the guys legs.

Felt sorry for Ireland. I thought Spain looked pretty good.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 06:25 AM

Of course England will win. I shall be hoarse from cheering each time they score.

The last 20 minutes of the Ireland game was hard to watch. The only thing that kept me watching was the amazing passing game of Spain.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Musket
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 08:36 AM

Hoof it up to the big men.. Fair do's alanabit.

Worked for Sheffield Wednesday in the early '80s when we worked our way up the leagues again.

Howard Wilkinson used to say "They all leave Hillsborough with hard luck stories and no points."

Mind you, it wasn't very pretty......

Plus England have other options, like Gerrard orchestrating the mid field by letting the defenders defend and getting a bit more forward this time. Welbeck can look good going deep to get the ball too. Looking at Sweden the other night, they will have to change quite a bit in order to combat England's tactical game against France and there is no guarantee they will play the same game tonight.

I'm driving down to Hampshire tonight so will be following it on the radio, but recording it for Sunday night viewing. (Or deleting it if all I said above turns out to be bollocks.)

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 04:54 PM

That was a thrilling game!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 05:23 PM

I've just got my breath back. That was a bit of a game too, wasn't it Gary? I don't think one could have asked for a lot more from England. We don't have a group of outstandingly gifted footballers at the moment, but they gave it their best shot and got the luck which they deserved. All three England goals were beautifully executed. I think that Andy Caroll was a little lucky not to have his name taken. He was even luckier the time when he blatantly fouled Mellberg - and was awarded a free kick for England! If England can keep cool and win a point against Ukraine, they could reach the quarter finals. I still think Germany would eat them for breakfast - as would a couple of other teams. Not complaining though. They are performing as well as one could possibly hope.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 05:23 PM

Yes ~ best & most exciting so far. Two superb goals, of quite different kinds, by Walcott {long swerving, from distance}, and Welbeck {slight backheel touch on volley to narrowly evade the goalkeeper -- who, incidentally, Sweden's Isacksson. I thought played a v fine game}.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 06:55 PM

The best bit so far was the way the French-Ukraine match started, with those crowd members singing and dancing and rolling about as the rain streamed down and the lightning exploded around the stadium. Very impressive response

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 07:21 PM

Well, if ya got a VCR or a PVR, record em so's ya can watch it again in slo-mo. Nuff said.

In the end, yes, England doesn't have the combined abilities of Spain and Germany and... and... but they bloody well won what I see as the most exciting game so far. Luck? Skill? Fortitude? I don't care!

Now. A serious question. Will the return of Rooney be a... well... um... well... you know? Will it? I mean, his Irish temper? which I understand completely, being of Irish decent (yes, I know) myself. I know that sometimes, ya just gotta shove Renaldo in the chest when he's bein a pussy asshole. OOPS! There goes my Irish temper again. Of course, Rooney just gave him a little shove... I'd'a knock his clock forward a day or two. Sorry... long ago and far away... for most people... >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 02:29 AM

After Wayne Rooney's vicious and unprovoked assault on the Montenegro player, I feel very uneasy about him ever wearing an England shirt again. And yes, I concede that he is a very fine player. It is just that there are one or two things in life which are more important than England winning football matches (not many of course!) ...but there are some.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 05:41 AM

They took that link away - here's another - Rain starts play

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 08:04 AM

The bastards! The RUS-GRE game will not be live but aired at midnight so they can televize the US Open.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Stu
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 08:15 AM

gnu - have you tried looking for an online stream? Some of them are pretty good and I use them to watch premiership matches that would otherwise be available only on Sky.

As for Rooney coming back . . . he was champing at the bit to get on the park yesterday and I think he's well up for it. He plays well off Young and runs at defenders which they hate, so I for one will be glad to see him back.

Full marks to Hodgson for his positive substitutions, and great to see England still going forward to the very end.

Gutted about Ireland losing, but the fans did them proud. Great stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 09:50 AM

I agree about Ireland Jack. Great fans. I could easily see England taking a similar caning from the Spaniards, Germans or Russians. We just got a bit luckier with the draw I guess.

As for Rooney coming back, the simple fact is that he will. I do not feel comfortable about it though.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 10:25 AM

But I can't see the England fans able to take defeat in such good spirit. Bad losers.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 12:16 PM

Some are some aren't Kevin. Unfortunately all the headlines go to those who behave the worst.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 12:24 PM

Some are some aren't Kevin

Any chance of explaining what that means?

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 01:46 PM

Some English fans are bad losers and some English fans are not.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 02:50 PM

Oh my! They didn't preempt the live RUS-GRE game... they chose which game to air because UEFA sheduled both games to start at the same time!!!?????? Apparently, UEFA doesn't care about advertising dollars OR fans.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 05:06 PM

Well played Greece. I decided to watch that Match and was not dissapointed. I think the Greek Captain, should have his yellow card rescinded. Poor refereeing.

Where is George Papavgeris. I bet he is happy. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 05:14 PM

Pig in sh1t, mate, pig in sh1t. Now for the Euro... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 05:22 PM

Poland nearly pulled out a tie in the final seconds. Pretty good game overall... except for the fans. The whistling at every Czech touch was annoying, to say the least.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 05:25 PM

"UEFA sheduled both games to start at the same time!!!??????" As normally happens. Less chance of teams knowing what they have to do and playing for draws or even colluding etc.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 05:56 PM

From this blog about financial matters, a day ago:

"My guess is that Greeks will watch the game first, before they vote, and if their team is humiliated, as expected, they will vote to behave themselves and stay in the eurozone. If their team pulls off an upset, all bets are off."

So if she's right this football victory could have interesting consequences...

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 05:08 AM

That was a brilliant win for the Greeks. Isn't it amazing that the Czechs, who lost their first game to Russia 4-1 are through as group winners, while the Russians are out? Funny old game!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 06:29 AM

Esp as Russia had the better goal difference than Greece, but lost their head-to-head.

Who makes these rules!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 09:57 AM

Well played England. Well played Theo Walcott, even though I think even he was a little surprised that his shot went in. Watch his reaction immediately after. Well played Danny Wellbeck, great skill under pressure. Well played Scott Parker, the best mid-fielder England have at this tournament so far. Someone mentioned Gerard up there somewhere but Gerard seems to be too concerned with the headlines so every time he gets the ball he goes across the field or back, too negative. Oh how England could do with Paul Scholes. How he would relish knocking through balls onto the likes of the speedy Wellbeck, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Young. I hate to say it but watch Rooney come on now and upset the apple cart.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 10:21 AM

Allan Conn... thank you. I was WAY off the mark.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Den
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 11:13 AM

Crap, forgot to sign in. Guest above was me.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Stu
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 11:29 AM

We've got to hang on to the ball. I thought Gerard was a looking a little tired, and Young was constantly giving the ball away; I wonder if he lacks strength (although he makes up for that in pace of course).

Also, if professional whiney git Mark Lawrenson continues as co-commentator on the BBC, I'm going to have a duck fit. The alternative commentary on Friday was not Five Live, but Chris bloody Moyles and someone called Comedy Dave. Streuth.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 11:43 AM

hi

I have been away but have been watching most of the games.

I have to say that as far as I have seen so far the title will be between either Germany or Spain. Both teams have been impressive and in completely different styles.

They both have one decisive thing in common. They are fantastic off the ball. Their backing up and running into space to receive the ball is fantastic. Both teams seem to have twice as many players on the pitch at times than their opponents.

England have been very patchy and I guess that is what most of us expected with all the problems and politics that have hindered their progress this season.

I feel that Young, apart from his part in the goal in the first game, has been weak, Milner too has promised but not really delivered.
Rooney should add some class and be a huge scoring threat in Ukraine.

As we saw in Group A we are at the business end of the Group matches and each game is like a knock-out game now. Who would have thought that Greece would have beaten Russia?? And in doing so knocked them out of the competition.( As Michael hinted; in most competitions Russia's goal difference would have carried them through ).

Looking forward to Holland v Portugal tonight - despite not winning a point yet Holland can secure a place in the quarter-Finals if results go their way !!! Germany look a good bet to go through but you can almost toss a coin with the other three.

Great competition so far - not the greatest football but boy is it exciting sorting out who is going to go further.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 01:34 PM

I was hoping to see DEN v GER but it will be POR v NED on TV here today. I shall root for NED.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,MikeL2
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 01:47 PM

Hi Gnu

Over here in the UK we get both games but on different channels. So I will keep channel hopping.

I have no real favourite here but I suspect that Portugal will win.

That puts Holland in with a real chance !!!!

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 02:00 PM

I don't really follow football too much (maybe because I come from Paisley, the home of St Mirren) but two things annoy me or at least confuse me. This head to head rule seems to cover a few years .... I would have thought goal difference was fairer. The otter thing that irritates me is the constant use of 'Holland' for 'the Netherlands'. It's a bit like saying England when one means Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 03:40 PM

Hi Jim

I have always been confused when to use "Netherlands" and/or Holland.
Here in England the norm as far as the media is to use Holland. The match commentators tonight indeed are using Holland and the Newspapers today also use that name.

The matches at half-time are both 1-1. It is exciting in that with every goal the team that will qualify change.

Ronaldo tonight is everywhere and despite missing a couple of goals scored to equalise a Van der Vart absolute cracker.

I can see the position changing even more times as the games go into the second half.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 03:44 PM

'Holland' for 'the Netherlands'. It's a bit like saying England when one means Britain. ---
.,,.
Not quite the same, Jim. Holland & The Netherlands are alternative names for the same entity. England is only a part of the totality of Great Britain - aka UK/UnitedKingdom.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: michaelr
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 11:29 PM

Yeah, well, MGM, with the Scots independence vote coming up, one can see the end of the United Kingdom looming. England will be the totality soon enough. Down with empires!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 01:06 AM

Fair *political* point, michaelr. But I don't think it contradicts the *semantic* point with which we are concerned in this instance. England will not be, in any sense, the 'totality' of what are traditionally known as The British Isles. Whether this term is cognate with Britain/GreatBritain/GB, and whether it includes the whole of Ireland, are matters for further debate for those who find such matters of interest. But I still maintain that "Holland" instead of "The Netherlands" is merely one of two equally acceptable alternative usages; whereas "England" for whatever one wishes to call the totality I suggest above, is an error which some citizens of the other national and regional entities concerned might feel disposed to resent; although arguments in favour of such a locution might be made in terms of traditional idiomatic usage.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 02:03 AM

Wiki seems to suggest that the term Holland is accepted, but not particularly liked, by people from throughout the Netherlands! North and South Holland are only provinces within the Netherlands. However the Dutch fans themselves seem to chant "Holland, Holland" So it is a bit confusing to know what is what.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 02:06 AM

"England will be the totality soon enough" Don't quite follow that point! If the UK broke up then England would still just be England. ie a part of the island of Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 06:46 AM

Hi

<" However the Dutch fans themselves seem to chant "Holland, Holland" So it is a bit confusing to know what is what. ">

Even the some of players when asked say that they represent Holland.

I have met a couple of the Dutch team and they say that they are from Holland.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 07:54 AM

As Allan Conn says, two provinces only are called Holland and the correct name of the country is the Netherlands. The Dutch, or some of them, think otherwise. Most English people use Britain and England synonymously. I live in London and I'll guarantee if I ask an English person to name a large town/city in the 'north east' (deliberately not saying Britain or England) 99 percent will say Newcastle. When I ask why didn't they say, for example, Aberdeen they look a bit shocked .... the assumtion was I was talking about England. Britain doesn't seem to exist except as some term to keep the Scots happy, thinking they are being included.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Musket
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 08:00 AM

Ah, but if we were Britain,...

Ryan Giggs?

George Best?

Oh, hang on... err.. a Scottish goalkeeper?????

Bugger, my dream doesn't work after all. There again, lose or draw, being there at all is what is important, (when speaking to a Scottish mate.)

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 10:41 AM

Hi Jim

I understand your point but using your comment.....if I were in Inverness and I asked a Scottish person to name me a City or town in the South, I am sure they would give either Glasgow or Edinburgh !!!

Another point I would make , as a person that has lived in both England and Scotland I would say that the English know far more about the geography of Scotland than The Scots do about England.

However they are both great Countries and I for one hope that Scotland remains in Great Britain.

Cheers

MikeL2

PS As this is a football thread....I see that the England v Scotland football International match is being re-introduced next year.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 11:41 AM

Hi Mikel2, I'm afraid I have to disagree. In Scotland, 'down south' usually refers to England whereas in England 'up north' invariably stops short of the border. Back to football, why are those in favour of the Union of parliaments all for preserving the independence of the SFA and the EFA?

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 12:15 PM

I was at the pub and seated at the next table were two rather large ladies with thick accents. i asked if they were Scottish. One said, "Wales ya fookin idgit." I apologized and asked, "Are you two whales from Scotland?"


MikeL2... I have one TV above another so that I can watch two Yankee football games at a time. I keep the sound low on the smaller TV with the less important game it and mute the louder one as required... penaties, replays, commercials...

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 01:35 PM

Son of a pup! We get the IRE game today.

BTW... I hadn't seen Rooney's foul until someone posted it was a vicious and unprovoked attack so I YTd it. I agree with the comments posted. I have been lenient in my view of him in the past and, although not forgiving of the previous fouls and displays I have seen, I'll never think of him the same way again after seeing that last one.

Re my comments about Renaldo, his play was indeed brilliant but that bit after the first goal? Holding up his arms and beckoning his mates to come to congratulate and celebrate with him? Equally as childish as Rooney although far less damning a character trait and he only hurt himself.

Should Rooney be banned? I lean towards it. I also think someone should sit Renaldo down and tell him to get a grip and some good manners for the sake of the team morale and the fans. I thought his display was embarrassing. Of course, his play is golden... >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 02:11 PM

hi gnu

Whales........tee hee.

We have 3 TV's but they are all in different rooms.

My wife watches "her" programmes on one. I watch TV on the other one we have downstairs. Can't be arsed to move the upstairs one and stick it on top of the other one, but your idea seems great. I have two DVD/Blue ray players hooked up to my TV so I tune one of them into the match that is on the other channel and just keep clicking the line button to go from one to another.

Nearest I get to what you do is I tune one of my PVR's to the cricket commentary and just watch the cricket on TV. I prefer the sound commentary.

I am going to watch Spain v Croatia as " my main " match and dip into the other when I want to.

Tonight I will have to pick Spain and Italy to win....but I would just love Ireland to turn up a big surprise....if only for their marvelous fans.

Happy viewing

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 02:17 PM

Oh my! Youse know how I should have told that joke... I was at the pub and seated at the next table were two rather large ladies with thick accents. I asked, "Are you two ladies Scottish?" One said, "Wales ya fookin idgit." I apologized and asked, "Are you two whales from Scotland?"

Subtle difference but far more effective.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 02:50 PM

MtheM: Britain is NOT aka the UK, except in error.

Greece have earned their success in the group with the way they played against Russia. But bizarre and annoying to see Russia falling out of the comp at this stage - they have some great players who are a pleasure to watch. As for that yellow card, I don't blame the ref (much) because it took a couple of slo-mo replays for me to be sure of the injustice, but it WAS an injustice and it's just ridiculous that the caution can't be rescinded. (The guy will miss the quarter-final because of it.)

I'm glad Torres looks resurgent after a torrid season with Chelsea, but on the other hand I'm pissed off (more for gnu-type reasons than self-interest) to see Renaldo hitting such magnificent form after a dubious start.

What surprises me about the comments on England is that no-one is with me in bemoaning Crouch's in explicable absence. He's a Carroll in the air but with real finesse on the deck, a great first touch and strong enough to hold on to the ball under pressure. Rooney will obviously come back to link up with Welbeck as he does well at ManU. But for me, Crouch would go on the teamsheet even before the spud-faced nipper, as Private Eye disparagingly refer to Rooney.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 03:32 PM

I have one TV in our bedroom and another in the kitchen/sitting room. I go to bed with a bottle of wine to watch the fotball and my wife watches programmes about flowers, potatoes and birds et cetera.
I could never be a football supporter as all the poor referee decisions, the acting of players feigning death after a slight touch, raises my blood pressure. I sometimes think my wife has the best deal. But then, maybe not.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Den
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 09:01 AM

Gnu, in Ronaldo's defence I think he was including his team mates in the goal celebration with his gesture. He is the captain of the team and imho I feel that his gesture was in response to team effort, sharing the stage so to speak. I would much rather see that than the guys who push their team mates away after scoring in order to hog the limelight for themselves even if they only scored with a tap-in.

Spain, however are still the team to beat. Germany look good and Spain and Germany would make for a great final.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 10:25 AM

Nice Cartoon by Matt on the cover of today's Telegraph!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 11:12 AM

Den... yeah, I suppose Renaldo deserves the benefit of the doubt from me. Maybe I am biased. Maybe???... that's doubtful. Point well made, Den

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 11:50 AM

hi gnu

<" Should Rooney be banned?">

Rooney was banned - that is why he is only today available for the first time to play in this competition.

As a Manchester United supporter I have watched Rooney for about 8 years. IMHO he is not a dirty player. Yes he is stupid at times and has a short fuse and does some crazy things. With regard to dirty and foul play he is much more sinned against than a sinner. Of course his temperament is dubious and other players work on that. He is constantly niggled and fouled by the opposition in attempts to get him sent off. Sometimes they succeed.

Recently he appears to have calmed down and Montenegro apart he had only received one yellow card in several months.

All that aside Rooney is a gifted footballer. So let's hope that he uses his head a gives a display of which he is capable. He will make a difference that may be vital to England as they try to qualify for the later rounds.

I think that Ronaldo's behaviour after he scored was due to him not having performed and when that ball hit the net he was showing his relief. As somebody said above he is the Captain and was signalling to his team to celebrate with him.

He is another immensely talented player - a prolific goalscorer who is not usually a striker!!

Remember both Rooney and Ronaldo despite their many years playing at the top are still relatively young - about 26 I think.

They both still have much to give and maybe, just maybe they will learn to be more mature.

I will be watching England tonight with everything crossed. On paper they should beat Ukraine but tonight is their big night.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 02:40 PM

On the whole I agree with your comments about Rooney Mike, but I still have a real problem with his appalling assault against the Montenegro player. If I recall correctly, it was not even a foul. It was a simple, bad tempered assault. Still, for better or for worse, he will be playing tonight and I want England to do well. It will not be the end of the world tonight if Ukraine beat us - it could well save us from an embarrassing examination by the Germans, Portuguese or Spaniards. On a balance of probabilities, Ukraine should win in front of their own fans. Still, England will be up for it and the fine display against Sweden, whom they beat in a competitive match for the first time in over forty years, should have their tails up. I am sure they will give it a go! This is not one of the more gifted England squads, but the performances so far have been quite creditable.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 03:46 PM

I agree... with both... to an extent. When I said "banned" I was commenting on the earlier post calling for him to banned completely... for good. "It was a simple, bad tempered assault." That's what begs my question. Smacking a guy from behind just because he bested you is pretty hard to ignore, no?

My hatred for Renaldo comes from his pussy protest in the World Cup against Rooney when Rooney didn't really do much. All the screaming and such and Rooney just had enough and gave him a slight shove in the chest and down goes Renaldo with great acting and out goes Rooney.

My complaint? Renaldo stoops to bad acting when there is no need. To me, acting, diving, feigning injury and the like are the worst forms of poor sportsmanship. Your mileage may vary. I just don't like the pussy and I am certainly biased against him.

Half time... so far, so good. I was worried early on. Now, I am just uneasy. >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 04:57 PM

But why does your hatred extend to not being able to spell his name, gun?!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 04:59 PM

2155

earwig-o earwig-o earwig-o

But worra boring game, eh!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 05:01 PM

It's a dis thing.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 05:08 PM

I played football in my youth, i've almost stopped watching it altogether...they are a shower of cheating primadonna's,who are payed obscene wage rates, on which most of them scam paying tax.

Role models for our young people?...I think not!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 05:18 PM

England were outplayed from start to finish tonight by the speed and sheer passion of the Ukranians. It was their poorest game so far and a 3-0 win for the Ukraine would have been a more just result. I am happy with the result, of course, but it really was down to extraordinary luck. I think that the referee probably made a mistake to disallow the Ukranian goal. England's passing was mainly poor and they put together relatively few good moves. Credit to Gerrard for holding the ball up and getting the cross in for England's goal. I think it was the deflection off the defender's boot which caused the goalie to misjudge the bounce of the ball. That was lucky England!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 05:30 PM

Yo ake! Decided to drop by and flame and troll and and make this thread about you, eh?

Talk football eh? Fuck you are pathetic. Got nothin better to do? If you ever did play football, which I seriously doubt, you would have something to say about football... about the tournament at hand. But nay, nay. You only drop in to flame and troll for your own twisted jollies.

ake... start yer own thread ya fuckin troll.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 09:29 PM

I thought abuse of fellow members had been outlawed long since. In this case it seems to have been wholly unprovoked, so it looks like Ake caught gnu at the wrong time of the month.

I take it gnu has no problem with the financial structure of a sport in which the 20 teams of the English premier league are now to get an additional £10-£15 million a year each to squander in wages for players who are already raking in up to £250,000 a week; or in which Thierry Henry, for instance, can unashamedly cheat Ireland out of a World-Cup finals while playing for France, in what was supposed to have been a walkover tie (France having been seeded for financial reasons to smooth their progress).

Without a doubt worldclass football can be exciting, particularly at club level and more particularly in the English premiership. But it is on course to self-destruct.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 01:42 AM

if England had drawn last night, would they have not got through. I don't really understand how all that works.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 02:13 AM

"if England had drawn last night, would they have not got through" England were on 4 points and a draw would have given them 5 so they would still have won the group and gone through. France and Ukraine would have both been on 4 points and France would still have gone through because they beat Ukraine in that game. Head to head record taking precedence over goal difference! Had England lost then Ukraine would have gone through as group winners - and depending on what the score was either France or England would have been second. I think!!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 02:42 AM

Bit complicated, innit? No wonder I didn't understand it.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 05:06 AM

This is the final table for group D:

Group D
Team:    Played, Won Lost, Drawn, Points
England......3......2.........0......1..........7
France........3......1.........1......1..........4
Ukraine......3......1.........0......2..........3
Sweden......3......1.........0......2..........3

Each team played each of the others, getting 3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw & 0 points for a loss.
Prior to last night's two games England had 4 points, France 4, Ukraine 3, & Sweden 0.
Had England lost they would have remained on 4 points, and Ukraine (having won) would advance to 6. This would mean that for England to remain in the competition (Top 2 teams go through) France would have to lose.
Before last night England knew that a draw was sufficient as it would keep Ukraine below them, and even if France won, England would go through in second place.

Now that the Group stages are over it becomes a straightforward knockout competition for the remaining 8 teams.

Does this make it clearer?

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 05:34 AM

so really it didn't matter whether we won or not.....?

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 05:49 AM

We would have been out had we lost - which I think would actually have been a just result!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 06:18 AM

hi guys

I agree with most of the above about England's performance last night.
I watched it all and sat there underwhelmed by the apparent inability of England to put two passes together.
They looked slow and tired to me.
As expected lots of hyperbole about Rooney and his return.
They will have to up the tempo and find some rhythm if they are to progress.

Gnu if they permanently banned all players who dived,cheated fouled etc there would be no players left!!

Remember this kind of thing emanated in South America and spread first to Europe and now everyone is at it.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 06:29 AM

South America....

perhaps if we gave them back the Falklands, they would agree to cut it out and act like decent chaps....

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 10:02 AM

If some more of the rules were enforced, regarding clutching clothing &c, instead of being now more or less routinely ignored as 'just something they all do', much of the play being objected to would cease. It simply needs an announcement from the competent authorities that referees have been instructed that such behaviour will not in future be tolerated, followed by a free kick, + card for any second such offence every time it happened.

Ah, well; one can dream. Though why it is so tolerated is beyond me.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 12:46 PM

"We would have been out had we lost" Are you sure? Had England lost by one goal to nil then they would have been on 4 points which is the same as France; the teams drew in their head to head so it would go to goal difference; both teams would have scored the same number of goals as they conceded; so I take it after that the team who scored more goals would go through. England would have scored 4 and France only 3. Seems logical anyway!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 07:38 PM

No football today... sighhhhh. I miss my fix.

Peter... time of the month? Every time. Far too often. Juat pisses me off. I mean, why bother unless...? If one has nothin to contibute... don't.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 11:37 AM

Hi

Michael- I couldn't agree more about the shirt pulling and pants tugging that goes on unstopped by officials. Add to that body checking -this does sometimes get recognised but often they get it wrong.

In the England game there was some blatant body checking ( by both sides) they went unpunished and then when Gerrard made a perfectly legal shoulder to shoulder charge he was pulled up !!!

As you are an ex goalkeeper you will no doubt remember that shoulder charging the goalkeeper was perfectly legal ( provided his feet were on the ground). And of course the keeper had to bounce the ball as he ran to the edge of the penalty area to kick out. We did not have the lovely playing surfaces that we have now either. Often the ball would just stick in the mud. Got a few fingers kicked and stood for this.

Foreign teams did not like this and the rule was changed so that now even staring too hard at the keeper can result in a foul.

So now the goalkeepers are protected but anything goes for the rest of the players.

Tonight I will watch quite relaxed. Don't care who wins !!

My brother-in-law who lives in Spain has just told me that he fancies an England v Portugal final. But then he does drink too much in the daytime.

Would be nice though Rooney v Ronaldo!!!

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 01:49 PM

Oh, tell me about it, MikeL. Still have a couple of permanently swollen fingers; & I remember one great lummox who caught me off-balance just as I caught the ball & barged me in & then stumbled & sat on my head ~~ & the benighted ref gave it as a goal. He [the barger not the ref] was called Alfred Young, I recall, & we were at Cambridge together a couple of years later ~ funny the things you remember!

Ah: happy days [up to a point, Lord Copper!].

Best

~M~

Sorry to all for drift. Back to the Euros!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 01:52 PM

"But then he does drink too much in the daytime."

Hahahahaa!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 02:39 PM

Okay... here is a chance for youse to edjumacate a Canuck who just KNOW the rules or how they are (not)interpreted properly. Seems to be a lot of "give". Also, I plead ignorance on at two least levels. I never saw a game of "soccer" until I went to uni and the only reason I did see one was I was playing Canadian football on an adjacent field. We never got to see football on TV here until we got cable. Then, we only got to watch SOME of the World Cup every four years. Then, we got one, two if lucky, Premiership games per week. We get a lot more now, thank goodness.

So, ladies and gents, please offer your
explantions/opinions.

For what it's worth, I am a Canuck. When I played Canuck squash in our uni residence, we checked just like we check in hockey. You get between me and the Yellow Dot and yer fair game. You get between me and a clear shot to the wall, you get a blue dot with the Yellow Dor in the small of your back. LET that be a lesson.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 02:43 PM

BTW, YT has a video compilation of Rooney's fouls. I never knew he was such a PRICK! My opinion of him is far less after watching the vid.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 03:47 PM

Oops... DOESN'T know the rules... sorry. I was typing fast to get the post in before the game.

The Czechs looked very sharp in their passing and defense as did the Portuguese but moreso to me. Some of those passes have to be sheer confidence that the receiver will be where he is supposed to be... or they have eyes in the backs of their heads.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 05:09 PM

That was a very good performance by Portugal. They seem to be in gear now and there is a lot more about them than just Ronaldo. I have no doubt that they would give England a right mauling and they may well be a match for even Germany or Spain in this form.
I expect a really dire game tomorrow. Germany have the will but not so much imagination to break down Greece. I think they will just about make it in the end. England have probably gone as far as a modest amount of talent can take them. Does that mean it is shaping up for a Germany vs Italy semi-final?
On paper the Spanish should eat the French - but the game is not being played on paper. I also reckon that with the Spaniards' tenedency to over elaborate and the French habit of suddenly coming good without warning, it looks too close to call. At the moment Portugal are looking the most attractive side left in it. Who would have thought that ten days ago?

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 05:25 PM

At the moment. Yes indeed... at the moment. Don't blink.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 09:59 PM

love this song!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30_50J94m84&feature=em-share_video_user

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 03:05 AM

"BTW, YT has a video compilation of Rooney's fouls. I never knew he was such a PRICK! My opinion of him is far less after watching the vid."

Your opinion of Professional Football would also be far less, if you knew anything about how it is administered.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 04:27 AM

Why are you being so bloody negative, Ake? You obviously have an ingrained dislike of the subject of this thread, so stay off it.

It is one of those peculiar perversions to which Catters are prone to keep intruding on threads for the express purpose of denouncing their topics. Why will they do it?!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 09:41 AM

Hi

I watched the game last night. Not the best advertisement for attacking football by the Czechs thought plenty of inter-passing movements that looked pretty but got nowhere.

Portugal always looked more dangerous especially when Ronaldo had the ball. He looked a class above the rest and IMHO his last two games must put him in line as one of the best players in the tournament.

Not that Portugal are merely a one man team. Nani often looks great and makes some defence-breaking runs. His final ball as normal leaves a little ( no.....a lot) to be desired. The full backs attack really well and they are certainly improving with each game.

Tonight Germany will need to be near their best to beat a workmanlike Greece. I expect them (Germany) to have too much energy,organisation and firepower to see them home comfortably.

Funny team though the Greeks. Who would have fancied them to win the Title in 2004 eh ???

Could an upset be on the cards??

cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Den
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 12:41 PM

I'm still predicting a Spain, Germany final. Portugal look good now and could cause an upset against Spain who I think will stroll past France.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 02:05 PM

Al... great video! Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 04:55 PM

Germany are through now and they thoroughly deserved it. They looked better than I had expected them too. For the first half hour, the Greeks restricted them to half chances. Then Phillip Lahm spotted a gap and after that, apart from a breakaway equaliser, which kept Greece level for six minutes, it was pretty much one way traffic. So it will be a Germany vs Italy semi final. My money will be on the Germans. They have found their rhythm now and they will have two more days to recover than the Italians. France could suddenly put it all together again, but I think you are right Den - the other finalist will probably be either Portugal or Spain.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 05:02 PM

"So it will be a Germany vs Italy semi final."
!!!!!!
Possibly, alanabit; even probably ---

--- but just possibly not, you pessimistic old chicken-counter. Must be ever so encouraging to our team. to know there is such confidence in them at home...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 05:15 PM

I shall cheer England all the way because I am more familiar with the players but it looks like Germany and Spain to me. Anybody's guess at this stage. Don't blink.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 04:30 AM

I shall certainly cheer England all the way tomorrow. However, now that the tournament is in the final stages, I can't see Italy taking any nonsense from a team of vastly less talented players. The win against the Ukraine was a fluke and I can't see lightning striking twice in the same place in one tournament. England have done well to get this far and I am happy with that. Now it's time for the big boys to do their stuff!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 11:41 AM

GUEST was me, twice.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: CET
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 05:35 PM

I am writing this from my hotel room in a smallish town in NW Germany. Judging from the noise outside I gather that the Germans are happy about the game today, and are celebrating by playing merengue music at insane sound levels. It reminds me of 1990. So much for getting over jet lag. I think I'll go out for an icecream.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 05:39 PM

Odd. You would think they would be cheering for France. Perhaps it was just random revelry fueled? Anyway, the outcome today was never really in doubt for me. Spain is just toooo good.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 05:52 PM

England are favourites to beat Italy.my prediction is one nil.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: CET
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 06:06 PM

Didn't they beat Greece today? Dammit, they aren't the champions yet.

It's quiet now. The sound truck and the motorcade seem to have moved on to another part of town.

Why the bad luck for English football? Aren't they as soccer crazy as the rest of Europe?

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 08:17 PM

Among sports pursued on the European side of the pond, football probably has the biggest element of luck. Certainly more than cricket; infinitely more than rugby. Accordingly Alanabit is overly pessimistic about England's prospects.

FIFA's next rule change should be to widen the goalposts by, say, 30cm and raise the crossbar by a few mil. That would result in many more goals in a typical 90min - often 10-15 - without affecting the game as we know it. We would then have a better measure of relative strengths, and the Yanks would at last be won over!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 08:29 PM

Get rid of offside and raise the goal scoring and the Yanks will get on board so much you'd wish they hadn't. Though, it's not required. The Yanks now have MLS. It won't be long. >;-)

Sorry if that offends. I just know the Yanks. They are good at "stuff" they wanna be good at.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 24 Jun 12 - 03:56 AM

"That would result in many more goals in a typical 90min - often 10-15 - without affecting the game as we know it."

It is difficult to score a goal hence when it is done there is real excitement. Near misses are often just as exciting. Widening the goals to make it easy enough to have two dozen goals scored per much would totally spoil it.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 24 Jun 12 - 04:37 AM

I hope very much that I am wrong about the outcome of tonight's game. Peter is right. There is a large amount of luck involved in football - and indeed, the luckless Ukranians deserve to be in the quarter final more than England. Having said that, I am delighted to see England there. The Germans are hoping for an England win, because they believe (probably rightly) that it would give them a much easier semi-final. However, it is a one off and if England show some of the form and spirit they showed against France and Sweden, they could have a chance. They will also need a large slice of luck. The realistic part of me says that Italy have better football players, so they should win! We will all be wiser tomorrow!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Jun 12 - 06:13 AM

You're right about offside, gnu. I once OP'd a thread about getting rid of it, & it ran to about 70 posts from 28 Feb 10 - 27 Jan 11.

I say again, away with the idiotic rule, keep the game moving, and leave it to the ingenuity of coaches & defences to obviate the always-cited "goalhanger" objection! You'll be amazed how it will improve the game; just as has the new[ish] passes·back·to·goalkeeper- no·handling rule, which everyone called a change too far till it happened & nobody would now do away with.

AWAY WITH OFFSIDE...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: CET
Date: 24 Jun 12 - 06:22 AM

Does England's relative lack of talent have something to do with the fact that some of the players who would otherwise be stars at soccer play cricket and rugby instead? I would where Ireland might stand as a world rugby power, for example, if there were no Gaelic sports to attract the available talent.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 24 Jun 12 - 10:40 AM

I think that is probably not the reason CET. Of course, a natural athleticism is an advantage in any sport. There are also, of course, a very few players who are exceptionally gifted in the skills of more than one sport. I believe Dennis Compton played both cricket and football at the top level.

However, although the skills of (say) a rugby player might be adaptable to a gaelic code of football or the Amnerican Football games, I would say that cricket and rugby require very different skills to football. I think that the very best athletes naturally gravitate towards the sport which usees their natural talent best.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Jun 12 - 11:10 AM

Some are gifted in more than one; and occasionally one has a Compton who follows both with great success. But Boris Becker had to decide in his mid-teens whether he was going to be a tennis player or a goalkeeper, having demonstrated exceptional talents in both. These days, I think a choice must be made, partly because the soccer season, with international competitions &c, is year-long. In Compton's time it was just a simple matter of soccer for Arsenal & England in winter, cricket for Middlesex and England in summer. Wouldn't work any more, alas.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jun 12 - 01:55 PM

I think Italy will win today.

GO ENGLAND! MEAT PIE SAUSAGE ROLL!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jun 12 - 03:44 PM

I am encouraged.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: CET
Date: 24 Jun 12 - 05:20 PM

I could have sworn that was an Italian goal just before the end of extra time. I guess not. I hate shoot outs.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: michaelr
Date: 24 Jun 12 - 05:42 PM

A disappointing performance from both England and Italy. Bah.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jun 12 - 06:33 PM

A magnifcent tradition...losing the penalty shoot out. Gloriously upheld.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jun 12 - 07:04 PM

In the end, well done England. Congrtas Italy.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 12:39 AM

I agree. It was a brave effort by England, but the better side won. Good luck to Italy in the semi-final.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 02:25 AM

"A disappointing performance from both England and Italy." Actually Italy were far better than I thought they'd be. Apart from in front of the net itself they played some pretty impressive stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 02:30 AM

"I could have sworn that was an Italian goal just before the end of extra time" I thought it was a goal initially but I think the replay shows that the line judge got it bang on.



http://theoriginalwinger.com/2012-06-24-video-italys-disallowed-offsides-goal-against-england-euro-2012


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 03:09 AM

Yes indeed, its time for a manly shake of the hand, and saying, Well done, old man! The best man won on the day....

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 04:01 AM

I just watched extra time on my PC with no sound - a big improvement by not hearing the inane drivel from commentators, and noise from the pea brained crowd!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 06:30 AM

I wonder why we always lose the penalty shoot out.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 10:25 AM

Hi

Well we are out !!!

Italy were by far the better footballing side. England did well to stop them scoring and have the dubious honour of going out of the competition without losing a game.

They were over-run in midfield by an impressive Italian one. Pirlo was tremendous. Young seemed out of his depth and poor Milner ran his heart out but achieved very little.

Italy were so much in command that all England could do was to try to stem the flow.As a result very few attacks were made by England leaving Rooney and Wellbeck chasing scraps. Rooney didn't look match fit to me and Wellbeck played much better as a defender than an attacker.

Carroll came on and apart from one header looked short of pace and experience. Walcott didn't produce the impact he did against Sweden.

One realised how short of midfielders we are when Henderson was introduced. There is no way that he is International class.

On the good side Gerrard was always busy trying to drive team forward. Johnson had one of his better games for England. Parker got in the way of many attempts to score but was overwhelmed by almost constant attacks. Terry tried hard to marshall an over-run defence and his endeavour and determination almost gained a freak result.

The team spirit was good compared with previous competitions and the England supporters were on good behaviour.

As for the penalty shoot out - well we have seen it all before, haven't we ??

Well done Italy - I don't think Germany will be looking forward to meeting them.

Looking forward to Spain v Portugal. Hope it will be an eciting game and may the better team win.....as long as it is Spain !!!

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 10:43 AM

#Euro2012 Respect "Land Rights" - http://www.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse/blog/474993020

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,I rememer
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 12:14 PM

It,s been LOOOONG time, 1966.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Tunesmith
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 12:31 PM

We were dreadful.

And, even worse than that, it appears that the English team have been named the most boring team in the history of international football!

It's also clear, that if we took the foreigners out of our club sides, we would then have the most boring club sides in the history of the game!

I completely different approach to how we play the game is needed.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 12:47 PM

...my poem "Rerugulate" - http://walkaboutsverse.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/walkaboutsverse-98-of-230.html

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 02:49 PM

I agree with MikeL2's analysis. I am not going to get carried away with all of the usual over reaction to a disappointment. The main reason Italy won this time around was that they have more top level players at the moment than England. This does not mean we will never beat them again and it does not mean that our football sucks. These things go in cycles and we will see better and worse England sides than the current lot.
I liked Italy last night. I never thought I could type that! There was little cheating and they played open, attractive football fairly and in a good spirit. In fact, considering what was at stake, it was one of football's better occasions. Italian football has always conjured up images of catenaccio and shirt pulling for me. That was hardly in evidence last night. If anything, England were more guilty of it than Italy.
England's off the ball running was pretty poor. At times there were attackers (Rooney mainly) trying to hold the ball up with several Italians around them - and still no passing options appeared. You can't surprise defenders by running the ball at them when they know that is your only option.
At the end of the day, it is not a bad achievement to reach the quarter finals with a set of players who are merely average by international standards. No doubt exceptional players will emerge in the future, but for the time being we fans will have to live with more modest expectations.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 03:31 PM

alanabit... "There was little cheating..."

That was the most enjoyable part of the game for me. It was a straight forward game. It was football, fast and furious.

I certainly agree that England seemed to be dead on their feet at times. No support moving forward to allow the forwards options.

One thing that appeared odd to me many times in many games is that the ball ends up to the left or right of the goal and there is nobody there to get after it. It's difficult for me to get a handle on the reason(s) because I only see the play in the field of vision shown by the cameras. Especially on corners... is that because they need players in front of the goal and defenders further back to cover "fast breaks"?

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 03:37 PM

I think there are several reasons gnu. Sometimes it is simply the TV direction, which does not show you a proper perspective to allow you to understand what is going on. Also, however slow it looks at times, the game is actually astonishingly fast and requires huge amounts of natural stamina and athleticism at this level. The players simply can't get there in time to keep up. I think another thing which has been happening increasingly over recent years, is that most teams play with two lines of four (or some variation on this theme). To break through these defensive lines, the attacking teams often have to concentrate several players in small areas to achieve a fast build up. This can lead to them becoming bunched on one side of the field.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 03:52 PM

Ah well....into every dreary day a little beam of sunshine comes.
No more sycophantic commentators and pundits
But now for the endless post mortems, the tears, the recriminations.

I just hope this tragic result doesn't bring out the sympathy vote in the Scottish Independence Referrendum????    :0(

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 04:27 PM

Mark Lawrenson, after hearing that an Italian player was married to a ballet dancer, "I bet she's hoping for 2-2"!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 09:39 AM

Hi

I agree with alan and gnu. The game was almost free from the cynical side that football has often provided. Shirt tugging aside ( by both sides) this game was remarkably free from cheating.

There is no doubt in my mind that Italy are a much better side than was thought and that they will give Germany a good game, even though they do have 48 hours less to rest and prepare for the game.

I agree with alan about the speed of the game on TV appearing to be slower that if one is live at the game.

In the second half England tired quickly because they had been putting in many tackles and chasing shadows throughout the game.

Interestingly both the "naughty boys" ( Rooney and Ballotelli )behaved themselves.

I understand we play Italy again shortly. It will be interesting to see if we can match their pass rate and work rate this time.

We must learn how to keep possession - this means not only being able to pass more accurately but players off the ball need to move into space to give the passer options.Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: G-Force
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 10:38 AM

Some of the shirt pulling was so obvious you wonder why the ref doesn't do something about it. Perhaps football should be played naked, with the colours and numbers just painted on.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 11:17 AM

I'm sure they would find something to pull.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 02:33 PM

I would like to see players wearing velcro strips. This means that if someone pulled a shirt, he would end up with a strip of material in his hand. Imagine the guilty player having to explain to the referee: "He put it in my hand ref. Honest!"

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Den
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 02:51 PM

The only reason England made it as far as they did is because they once again ended up in an easy group. Lets face it there haven't been any real quality English players (I'm talking players that would make it onto a European XI) in the last, possibly 30 or 40 years with the exception of Paul Scholes, Allan Shearer, Gary Lineker and maybe Gascoigne.

The English FA is run by accountants. Its time they had some football people in there. They need to redress the grassroots, work on the academies. Manchester United alone have produced a number of good English players through their academy. Who can forget the era of Scholes, Beckham, the Nevilles and Butt.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 03:02 PM

"velcro strips" Good idea. I wonder, tho... probably be some guy who would rip his own shirt off and dive. I could offer a name as first offender but youse all know who I would name.

Another thought... I suppose they have to shave, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 04:39 PM

True gnu, but how do you explain to the ref why you have an opponent's shirt in your hand?

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 05:07 PM

There is picture in today's Scottish Sun of an English supporter standing behing the goal with his trousers down showing full frontal as the Italians took the penalties. His mate looked as if he was about to do the same.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 05:12 PM

English fan full frontal

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 05:15 PM

I'm sorry the link doesn't seem to work. If you type www.thescottishsun.co.uk you should get to the home page otherwise just google Scottish sun.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 05:23 PM

No need for nudity or velcro. All it needs is a few refs and goal-line officials and assistant refs to go to Specsavers and see what's going on & penalise it. Why the hell don't they?

Even one of the commentators the other day, talking of the way the refs keep delaying corners and walking over to tell the players to stop hugging and obstructing each other, wondered why they didn't just give a penalty every time it happens & be done. A few such, or a few cards, would soon put a stop to all the holding & hugging & obstructing. Why no guts from the officials? Why no pronouncements on the matter from the sport's authorities? Who/what are they all so scared of?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 05:35 PM

True gnu, but how do you explain to the ref why you have an opponent's shirt in your hand?

My post got stuck on the satellite! Grrrr!

I understand. My post was re Ronaldo ripping off his own shirt, diving, whining to the ref like a wee girl and then winking to his mates about how he fucked over Rooney. Yes, that SEEMS far fetched but I wouldn't put it past him. Yes, I am biased. I just abhor the prissy little diva.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 06:32 PM

it is very simple England need to concentrate on passin g the ball,keeping possession.there is only one side in the premier league that is 3/4 decent at this.. Arsenal.YOUTH COACHES AND COACHES SHOULD CONCENTRATE ON THIS ASPECT OF THE GAME

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 06:44 PM

Ya gotta point there, Goody. The passing against England was merciless. Precision passing ran them ragged. I was especially impressed with the rather surprising attempts at long passes. It seemed as if the Italians were simply not afraid of the counter attack and the comments re England not controlling possession and being poor in passing mode are right in this regard.

Once again, I am just a Canuck who doesn't really KNOW the game but I am trying to learn and contribute, tho it may be worthless among the expert posts herein. Bear with me... educate me. Thanks in advance.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 05:20 AM

"it is very simple England need to concentrate on passin g the ball,keeping possession.there is only one side in the premier league that is 3/4 decent at this.. Arsenal." (GSS)

I am a fan of Manchester City, so I am afraid I will beg to differ on that one. It was the patient holding of the ball and the imaginitive ways which the team found to break two lines of four which made City such a joy to watch for most of the past season. I also think our players scored a few more goals than Arsenal this time around... I wonder if this move has escaped your memory!

Excuse me being puckish, but as it happens, I agree with your first and last sentences.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 06:23 AM

Hi

I agree with alan that Manchester City are a very good side and at their best they play exciting football. Their passing movements at times were simply amazing. I know because I was at Old Trafford when they murdered us 6-1.

As a Manchester United supporter you will realise that this hurts ( ever so slightly !!) to post this.

Man United though have always being known for entertaining and exciting football. Although last season they were not at their best they still only lost the League in the last seconds of the season to a fantastic ( and for me still - unbelieveable )two goals in the last minutes of the game.

We just need Pirlo, Schweinsteiger and Ronaldo ( sorry gnu)back, and Captain Vidij to be fit again. We would then give City and every other team a run for their money.

As for England....it needs a change to the whole management structure.
At the moment the players are not encouraged by their clubs to even want to play for their country. In fact several managers openly try to limit their own players from playing Internationals. It needs to start with the FA and The Premier League getting together to work something out. Don't hold your breath!!!

Then of course we have to learn to produce our own home-based players of the right standard and abilities to match the rest of the World.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 02:15 PM

I was being a bit cheeky there, but I am with both Mike and GSS on the need to raise skill levels among our younger players from the very beginning. Above all, they have to learn how to work with the other players in the team. England's off the ball running was dreadful to non-existant at times. Players need to know if their colleagues want the ball played to feet or played into their stride, for instance. This can often make the difference between starting a passing movement and dooming it to failure on the first pass. Players need to learn these skills early on. At the moment we are producing very fit, strong young men who end up chasing shadows against international opposition, because they have not learned to retain the ball.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 04:10 PM

I certainly agree, alanabit. Anticipation and deception are mainstays of any sport. There are many others, of course, but I would offer that these are paramount, beyond sheer athleticism.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: michaelr
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 09:57 PM

Crap, another important match decided by penalty shootout. There has GOT to be a better way!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 11:45 PM

There is a better way ~~ the team with fewer fouls/cards against it [exclude offside] declared winner at full-time; no need even for extra time. Eminently fair & simple to administrate. I've suggested it here, and in letters to papers, many times. I wish they would at least just try it out some time.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 02:54 AM

There is some merit in that MtheGM. They should give it a go.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,MikeL2
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 06:44 AM

Hi

I agree with Michael that we have to find a simpler way to decide a result in a drawn game.

Taking the no of fouls etc during a game could be complicated but has merit.

How about a simple giving the game to the team that forces more corners?? Easy to record and in most cases it would signify the team that has been attacking most.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 07:26 AM

There were 'fouls' and 'fouls' last night as in all the previous matches and times when I thought a definite yellow card should have but was not given and others when a card WAS given. I agree a better method than shoot outs should be found but counting fouls/cards would lead to much disagreement.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Den
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 08:00 AM

The too many fouls scenario in deciding games leaves the result in the hands of one man, the referee, and as we saw in yesterday's game that could be a complete disaster. Some referees are too quick with their whistle. Some, I can only assume have never played the game and therefore have no understanding of the timing involved in tackling eg. It would leave them more vulnerable to those wishing to ensure results go in their favour. You only have to look at the recent scandal involving referees in Germany.

I think penalties are the only fair way to decide the end result in these situations. Its down to the players' nerve or luck or both.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 10:39 AM

I gotta go with Den on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 11:15 AM

I certainly prefer penalties to the toss of the coin method of settling ties. Although it is heart breaking to lose a penalty shoot out, in every game that England have been eliminated this way, that was the just result. It will always be a problem endemic to football. There is only one method of scoring - and that needs a large element of luck even when it has been well earned.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: zozimus
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 08:21 PM

Fair play to Italy doing the business tonight. A brilliant game.
As regards replacing penalty shoot-outs, they did try the Golden Goal, or next goal the winner, in the Under- 16 European Championship many years ago, Damien Duff of Ireland being the only player to score one and win the competition for Ireland. I imagine it was scrapped because the whole game is run to suit TV schedules these days and it is easier to calculate how long a penalty shoot-out will take.
Ireland suffered the same fate as England, being told to play to an out-of-date 4 4 2 system. Many players from both countries can pass the ball, but if they don't do what the Manager tells them, they don't get selected.
I take Italy to go all the way at this stage. They have improved with every game whereas Spain seem to be dis- improving. Italy will go at them like Portugal did except they will do it better.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 10:24 PM

I am likeing Italy at this point as well. In any case, I just want an exciting game with no chippy shit. Just good football.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: michaelr
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 01:34 AM

Boy, Germany just fell apart today, didn't they? Easily their worst performance in years. Michael Ballack all but blamed the German manager for switching too many players in and out.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 03:20 AM

Everybody praised Jogi Löw's boldness when the team won and now the press is suddenly after him because his team lost to a very fine Italian side. Last night's result will have caused an awful lot of barbeques to be cancelled on Sunday! There is understandable disappointment here. Germany has a fine young team and there is no reason why the team should not go even further in the next 2-4 years.
    Last night the luck went with the Italians - and in my view deservedly so. They passed with greater consistency and precision and Balotelli's finishing was exemplary. This is one of the most likeable Italian sides I have ever seen. Good luck to them on Sunday.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 04:45 AM

I `ad that Berlusconi in my cab last night. `e `ad just come out from one of `is "Bunga Bunga" parties up West. `e looked well down in the dumps, just as if `e`d spilled `is Valplolicello in `is spaghetti.
I said, " Morning Luigi, why so glum? You ought`a be cock-a-`oop with Italy turning the Bosch over in the semi`s last night."
`e said. "Mama Mia Jeem. There is-a no chance-a of getting-a the dosh-a out of-a Angela Merkl now-a!!"

Whaddam I Like??

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 03:21 PM

Jim! A bit risque but ya made me laugh!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 03:24 PM

BTW... the TV news reports here the Italian communities in the larger cities of Canada celebrating. There are large (relatively) Italian communities here. They were exuberant! Good for them. Enjoy, I say.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 02:40 PM

I shall cheer for Italy in support of my Italian Canuck buddies.

This should be a great game.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 03:42 PM

I kinda knew Italy might not get lucky two games in a row. The fast breaks against Germany just aren't happening against Spain. But, they'll have to keep trying them.

Iniesta is amazing. As discussed earlier, seeing the game live rather than on the TV must be amazing also. Iniesta, and others... amazing atheletes! I hope Italy get a goal soon to make it more exciting.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: michaelr
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 04:49 PM

Jayzus -- Germany let themselves get beaten by this Italian side? The shame!

Spain have been brilliant throughout the tournament, and indeed for years before. My hat is off to them. Well done, and I would not be surprised if they did it again in 2014.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Bainbo
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 05:02 PM

Blimey! Who's that lifting the trophy for Spain?

(Yes, I know. predictable)

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 05:06 PM

Germany were well beaten by the Italians - and there is no disgrace in that. I thought Italy did OK this evening. They just had the bad luck to be on the wrong end of some brilliant passing and they came up against a magnificent side in top gear. Spain simply have exceptional players and they have put it all together at the right time.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 05:10 PM

Gosh!

And, iy was good, clean football. A joy to watch.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 05:11 PM

England may have lost 10-0 to that Spanish team!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 05:28 PM

Man of the match... Iniesta. No wonder.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: michaelr
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 06:04 PM

I guess Italy caught Germany on a bad day... and Spain caught Italy on a bad day. Plus the Italian coach's bone-headed stupidity in using up all his substitutions so early - is that a rookie move or what?

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 11:39 PM

How about that Mata then! 5 minutes on the pitch throughout the entire tournament, and scores one of best set up goals with assist of Chelsea team-mate Torres. Just like that!!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 09:46 AM

Hi

Spain ( I suppose predictably) won easily against a valiant but overrun Italian team.

Some critics before the game panned the Spanish for being boring!!! They were certainly well and truly put in their place.

This Spanish side are not just great passers and receivers of the ball, all work hard for each other and play at all times as a team. Last night I couldn't count how many time Spanish players after losing the ball, chased back and won it back. They were quick and effect in the tackles. They snuffed the dangerous Pirlo and Balliotelli completely out of the game.

The first two goals were magnificent pieces of thoughtful attacking football.

We have a long way to go to be able to match Spain and give them any kind of game.

I know we actually beat them earlier in a "friendly" but last night I fear that they would have been slaughtered.

All-in-all it was a good tournament that many feared would be a fiasco.

I felt that the officials for the most part were excellent - England's "goal " apart.

Well done to all who participated in whatever way. I hope that 2016 will live up to this.

I read that in 2016 they are changing the format by allowing 24 ( instead of 16 ) teams to qualify for the final stages. This is pretty well 50% of the teams that are qualified to enter.

Cheers and thanks to all for an interesting thread.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 02:33 PM

4 years??? See you Thursday, June 12, 2014.

Tennis, anyone?