BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 10:02 AM

If some more of the rules were enforced, regarding clutching clothing &c, instead of being now more or less routinely ignored as 'just something they all do', much of the play being objected to would cease. It simply needs an announcement from the competent authorities that referees have been instructed that such behaviour will not in future be tolerated, followed by a free kick, + card for any second such offence every time it happened.

Ah, well; one can dream. Though why it is so tolerated is beyond me.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 06:29 AM

South America....

perhaps if we gave them back the Falklands, they would agree to cut it out and act like decent chaps....

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 06:18 AM

hi guys

I agree with most of the above about England's performance last night.
I watched it all and sat there underwhelmed by the apparent inability of England to put two passes together.
They looked slow and tired to me.
As expected lots of hyperbole about Rooney and his return.
They will have to up the tempo and find some rhythm if they are to progress.

Gnu if they permanently banned all players who dived,cheated fouled etc there would be no players left!!

Remember this kind of thing emanated in South America and spread first to Europe and now everyone is at it.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 05:49 AM

We would have been out had we lost - which I think would actually have been a just result!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 05:34 AM

so really it didn't matter whether we won or not.....?

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 05:06 AM

This is the final table for group D:

Group D
Team:    Played, Won Lost, Drawn, Points
England......3......2.........0......1..........7
France........3......1.........1......1..........4
Ukraine......3......1.........0......2..........3
Sweden......3......1.........0......2..........3

Each team played each of the others, getting 3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw & 0 points for a loss.
Prior to last night's two games England had 4 points, France 4, Ukraine 3, & Sweden 0.
Had England lost they would have remained on 4 points, and Ukraine (having won) would advance to 6. This would mean that for England to remain in the competition (Top 2 teams go through) France would have to lose.
Before last night England knew that a draw was sufficient as it would keep Ukraine below them, and even if France won, England would go through in second place.

Now that the Group stages are over it becomes a straightforward knockout competition for the remaining 8 teams.

Does this make it clearer?

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 02:42 AM

Bit complicated, innit? No wonder I didn't understand it.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 02:13 AM

"if England had drawn last night, would they have not got through" England were on 4 points and a draw would have given them 5 so they would still have won the group and gone through. France and Ukraine would have both been on 4 points and France would still have gone through because they beat Ukraine in that game. Head to head record taking precedence over goal difference! Had England lost then Ukraine would have gone through as group winners - and depending on what the score was either France or England would have been second. I think!!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 01:42 AM

if England had drawn last night, would they have not got through. I don't really understand how all that works.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 09:29 PM

I thought abuse of fellow members had been outlawed long since. In this case it seems to have been wholly unprovoked, so it looks like Ake caught gnu at the wrong time of the month.

I take it gnu has no problem with the financial structure of a sport in which the 20 teams of the English premier league are now to get an additional £10-£15 million a year each to squander in wages for players who are already raking in up to £250,000 a week; or in which Thierry Henry, for instance, can unashamedly cheat Ireland out of a World-Cup finals while playing for France, in what was supposed to have been a walkover tie (France having been seeded for financial reasons to smooth their progress).

Without a doubt worldclass football can be exciting, particularly at club level and more particularly in the English premiership. But it is on course to self-destruct.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 05:30 PM

Yo ake! Decided to drop by and flame and troll and and make this thread about you, eh?

Talk football eh? Fuck you are pathetic. Got nothin better to do? If you ever did play football, which I seriously doubt, you would have something to say about football... about the tournament at hand. But nay, nay. You only drop in to flame and troll for your own twisted jollies.

ake... start yer own thread ya fuckin troll.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 05:18 PM

England were outplayed from start to finish tonight by the speed and sheer passion of the Ukranians. It was their poorest game so far and a 3-0 win for the Ukraine would have been a more just result. I am happy with the result, of course, but it really was down to extraordinary luck. I think that the referee probably made a mistake to disallow the Ukranian goal. England's passing was mainly poor and they put together relatively few good moves. Credit to Gerrard for holding the ball up and getting the cross in for England's goal. I think it was the deflection off the defender's boot which caused the goalie to misjudge the bounce of the ball. That was lucky England!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 05:08 PM

I played football in my youth, i've almost stopped watching it altogether...they are a shower of cheating primadonna's,who are payed obscene wage rates, on which most of them scam paying tax.

Role models for our young people?...I think not!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 05:01 PM

It's a dis thing.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 04:59 PM

2155

earwig-o earwig-o earwig-o

But worra boring game, eh!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 04:57 PM

But why does your hatred extend to not being able to spell his name, gun?!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 03:46 PM

I agree... with both... to an extent. When I said "banned" I was commenting on the earlier post calling for him to banned completely... for good. "It was a simple, bad tempered assault." That's what begs my question. Smacking a guy from behind just because he bested you is pretty hard to ignore, no?

My hatred for Renaldo comes from his pussy protest in the World Cup against Rooney when Rooney didn't really do much. All the screaming and such and Rooney just had enough and gave him a slight shove in the chest and down goes Renaldo with great acting and out goes Rooney.

My complaint? Renaldo stoops to bad acting when there is no need. To me, acting, diving, feigning injury and the like are the worst forms of poor sportsmanship. Your mileage may vary. I just don't like the pussy and I am certainly biased against him.

Half time... so far, so good. I was worried early on. Now, I am just uneasy. >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 02:40 PM

On the whole I agree with your comments about Rooney Mike, but I still have a real problem with his appalling assault against the Montenegro player. If I recall correctly, it was not even a foul. It was a simple, bad tempered assault. Still, for better or for worse, he will be playing tonight and I want England to do well. It will not be the end of the world tonight if Ukraine beat us - it could well save us from an embarrassing examination by the Germans, Portuguese or Spaniards. On a balance of probabilities, Ukraine should win in front of their own fans. Still, England will be up for it and the fine display against Sweden, whom they beat in a competitive match for the first time in over forty years, should have their tails up. I am sure they will give it a go! This is not one of the more gifted England squads, but the performances so far have been quite creditable.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 11:50 AM

hi gnu

<" Should Rooney be banned?">

Rooney was banned - that is why he is only today available for the first time to play in this competition.

As a Manchester United supporter I have watched Rooney for about 8 years. IMHO he is not a dirty player. Yes he is stupid at times and has a short fuse and does some crazy things. With regard to dirty and foul play he is much more sinned against than a sinner. Of course his temperament is dubious and other players work on that. He is constantly niggled and fouled by the opposition in attempts to get him sent off. Sometimes they succeed.

Recently he appears to have calmed down and Montenegro apart he had only received one yellow card in several months.

All that aside Rooney is a gifted footballer. So let's hope that he uses his head a gives a display of which he is capable. He will make a difference that may be vital to England as they try to qualify for the later rounds.

I think that Ronaldo's behaviour after he scored was due to him not having performed and when that ball hit the net he was showing his relief. As somebody said above he is the Captain and was signalling to his team to celebrate with him.

He is another immensely talented player - a prolific goalscorer who is not usually a striker!!

Remember both Rooney and Ronaldo despite their many years playing at the top are still relatively young - about 26 I think.

They both still have much to give and maybe, just maybe they will learn to be more mature.

I will be watching England tonight with everything crossed. On paper they should beat Ukraine but tonight is their big night.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 11:12 AM

Den... yeah, I suppose Renaldo deserves the benefit of the doubt from me. Maybe I am biased. Maybe???... that's doubtful. Point well made, Den

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 10:25 AM

Nice Cartoon by Matt on the cover of today's Telegraph!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Den
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 09:01 AM

Gnu, in Ronaldo's defence I think he was including his team mates in the goal celebration with his gesture. He is the captain of the team and imho I feel that his gesture was in response to team effort, sharing the stage so to speak. I would much rather see that than the guys who push their team mates away after scoring in order to hog the limelight for themselves even if they only scored with a tap-in.

Spain, however are still the team to beat. Germany look good and Spain and Germany would make for a great final.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 03:32 PM

I have one TV in our bedroom and another in the kitchen/sitting room. I go to bed with a bottle of wine to watch the fotball and my wife watches programmes about flowers, potatoes and birds et cetera.
I could never be a football supporter as all the poor referee decisions, the acting of players feigning death after a slight touch, raises my blood pressure. I sometimes think my wife has the best deal. But then, maybe not.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 02:50 PM

MtheM: Britain is NOT aka the UK, except in error.

Greece have earned their success in the group with the way they played against Russia. But bizarre and annoying to see Russia falling out of the comp at this stage - they have some great players who are a pleasure to watch. As for that yellow card, I don't blame the ref (much) because it took a couple of slo-mo replays for me to be sure of the injustice, but it WAS an injustice and it's just ridiculous that the caution can't be rescinded. (The guy will miss the quarter-final because of it.)

I'm glad Torres looks resurgent after a torrid season with Chelsea, but on the other hand I'm pissed off (more for gnu-type reasons than self-interest) to see Renaldo hitting such magnificent form after a dubious start.

What surprises me about the comments on England is that no-one is with me in bemoaning Crouch's in explicable absence. He's a Carroll in the air but with real finesse on the deck, a great first touch and strong enough to hold on to the ball under pressure. Rooney will obviously come back to link up with Welbeck as he does well at ManU. But for me, Crouch would go on the teamsheet even before the spud-faced nipper, as Private Eye disparagingly refer to Rooney.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 02:17 PM

Oh my! Youse know how I should have told that joke... I was at the pub and seated at the next table were two rather large ladies with thick accents. I asked, "Are you two ladies Scottish?" One said, "Wales ya fookin idgit." I apologized and asked, "Are you two whales from Scotland?"

Subtle difference but far more effective.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 02:11 PM

hi gnu

Whales........tee hee.

We have 3 TV's but they are all in different rooms.

My wife watches "her" programmes on one. I watch TV on the other one we have downstairs. Can't be arsed to move the upstairs one and stick it on top of the other one, but your idea seems great. I have two DVD/Blue ray players hooked up to my TV so I tune one of them into the match that is on the other channel and just keep clicking the line button to go from one to another.

Nearest I get to what you do is I tune one of my PVR's to the cricket commentary and just watch the cricket on TV. I prefer the sound commentary.

I am going to watch Spain v Croatia as " my main " match and dip into the other when I want to.

Tonight I will have to pick Spain and Italy to win....but I would just love Ireland to turn up a big surprise....if only for their marvelous fans.

Happy viewing

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 01:35 PM

Son of a pup! We get the IRE game today.

BTW... I hadn't seen Rooney's foul until someone posted it was a vicious and unprovoked attack so I YTd it. I agree with the comments posted. I have been lenient in my view of him in the past and, although not forgiving of the previous fouls and displays I have seen, I'll never think of him the same way again after seeing that last one.

Re my comments about Renaldo, his play was indeed brilliant but that bit after the first goal? Holding up his arms and beckoning his mates to come to congratulate and celebrate with him? Equally as childish as Rooney although far less damning a character trait and he only hurt himself.

Should Rooney be banned? I lean towards it. I also think someone should sit Renaldo down and tell him to get a grip and some good manners for the sake of the team morale and the fans. I thought his display was embarrassing. Of course, his play is golden... >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 12:15 PM

I was at the pub and seated at the next table were two rather large ladies with thick accents. i asked if they were Scottish. One said, "Wales ya fookin idgit." I apologized and asked, "Are you two whales from Scotland?"


MikeL2... I have one TV above another so that I can watch two Yankee football games at a time. I keep the sound low on the smaller TV with the less important game it and mute the louder one as required... penaties, replays, commercials...

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 11:41 AM

Hi Mikel2, I'm afraid I have to disagree. In Scotland, 'down south' usually refers to England whereas in England 'up north' invariably stops short of the border. Back to football, why are those in favour of the Union of parliaments all for preserving the independence of the SFA and the EFA?

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 10:41 AM

Hi Jim

I understand your point but using your comment.....if I were in Inverness and I asked a Scottish person to name me a City or town in the South, I am sure they would give either Glasgow or Edinburgh !!!

Another point I would make , as a person that has lived in both England and Scotland I would say that the English know far more about the geography of Scotland than The Scots do about England.

However they are both great Countries and I for one hope that Scotland remains in Great Britain.

Cheers

MikeL2

PS As this is a football thread....I see that the England v Scotland football International match is being re-introduced next year.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Musket
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 08:00 AM

Ah, but if we were Britain,...

Ryan Giggs?

George Best?

Oh, hang on... err.. a Scottish goalkeeper?????

Bugger, my dream doesn't work after all. There again, lose or draw, being there at all is what is important, (when speaking to a Scottish mate.)

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 07:54 AM

As Allan Conn says, two provinces only are called Holland and the correct name of the country is the Netherlands. The Dutch, or some of them, think otherwise. Most English people use Britain and England synonymously. I live in London and I'll guarantee if I ask an English person to name a large town/city in the 'north east' (deliberately not saying Britain or England) 99 percent will say Newcastle. When I ask why didn't they say, for example, Aberdeen they look a bit shocked .... the assumtion was I was talking about England. Britain doesn't seem to exist except as some term to keep the Scots happy, thinking they are being included.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 06:46 AM

Hi

<" However the Dutch fans themselves seem to chant "Holland, Holland" So it is a bit confusing to know what is what. ">

Even the some of players when asked say that they represent Holland.

I have met a couple of the Dutch team and they say that they are from Holland.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 02:06 AM

"England will be the totality soon enough" Don't quite follow that point! If the UK broke up then England would still just be England. ie a part of the island of Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 02:03 AM

Wiki seems to suggest that the term Holland is accepted, but not particularly liked, by people from throughout the Netherlands! North and South Holland are only provinces within the Netherlands. However the Dutch fans themselves seem to chant "Holland, Holland" So it is a bit confusing to know what is what.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 01:06 AM

Fair *political* point, michaelr. But I don't think it contradicts the *semantic* point with which we are concerned in this instance. England will not be, in any sense, the 'totality' of what are traditionally known as The British Isles. Whether this term is cognate with Britain/GreatBritain/GB, and whether it includes the whole of Ireland, are matters for further debate for those who find such matters of interest. But I still maintain that "Holland" instead of "The Netherlands" is merely one of two equally acceptable alternative usages; whereas "England" for whatever one wishes to call the totality I suggest above, is an error which some citizens of the other national and regional entities concerned might feel disposed to resent; although arguments in favour of such a locution might be made in terms of traditional idiomatic usage.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: michaelr
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 11:29 PM

Yeah, well, MGM, with the Scots independence vote coming up, one can see the end of the United Kingdom looming. England will be the totality soon enough. Down with empires!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 03:44 PM

'Holland' for 'the Netherlands'. It's a bit like saying England when one means Britain. ---
.,,.
Not quite the same, Jim. Holland & The Netherlands are alternative names for the same entity. England is only a part of the totality of Great Britain - aka UK/UnitedKingdom.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 03:40 PM

Hi Jim

I have always been confused when to use "Netherlands" and/or Holland.
Here in England the norm as far as the media is to use Holland. The match commentators tonight indeed are using Holland and the Newspapers today also use that name.

The matches at half-time are both 1-1. It is exciting in that with every goal the team that will qualify change.

Ronaldo tonight is everywhere and despite missing a couple of goals scored to equalise a Van der Vart absolute cracker.

I can see the position changing even more times as the games go into the second half.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 02:00 PM

I don't really follow football too much (maybe because I come from Paisley, the home of St Mirren) but two things annoy me or at least confuse me. This head to head rule seems to cover a few years .... I would have thought goal difference was fairer. The otter thing that irritates me is the constant use of 'Holland' for 'the Netherlands'. It's a bit like saying England when one means Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,MikeL2
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 01:47 PM

Hi Gnu

Over here in the UK we get both games but on different channels. So I will keep channel hopping.

I have no real favourite here but I suspect that Portugal will win.

That puts Holland in with a real chance !!!!

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 01:34 PM

I was hoping to see DEN v GER but it will be POR v NED on TV here today. I shall root for NED.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 11:43 AM

hi

I have been away but have been watching most of the games.

I have to say that as far as I have seen so far the title will be between either Germany or Spain. Both teams have been impressive and in completely different styles.

They both have one decisive thing in common. They are fantastic off the ball. Their backing up and running into space to receive the ball is fantastic. Both teams seem to have twice as many players on the pitch at times than their opponents.

England have been very patchy and I guess that is what most of us expected with all the problems and politics that have hindered their progress this season.

I feel that Young, apart from his part in the goal in the first game, has been weak, Milner too has promised but not really delivered.
Rooney should add some class and be a huge scoring threat in Ukraine.

As we saw in Group A we are at the business end of the Group matches and each game is like a knock-out game now. Who would have thought that Greece would have beaten Russia?? And in doing so knocked them out of the competition.( As Michael hinted; in most competitions Russia's goal difference would have carried them through ).

Looking forward to Holland v Portugal tonight - despite not winning a point yet Holland can secure a place in the quarter-Finals if results go their way !!! Germany look a good bet to go through but you can almost toss a coin with the other three.

Great competition so far - not the greatest football but boy is it exciting sorting out who is going to go further.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Stu
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 11:29 AM

We've got to hang on to the ball. I thought Gerard was a looking a little tired, and Young was constantly giving the ball away; I wonder if he lacks strength (although he makes up for that in pace of course).

Also, if professional whiney git Mark Lawrenson continues as co-commentator on the BBC, I'm going to have a duck fit. The alternative commentary on Friday was not Five Live, but Chris bloody Moyles and someone called Comedy Dave. Streuth.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Den
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 11:13 AM

Crap, forgot to sign in. Guest above was me.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 10:21 AM

Allan Conn... thank you. I was WAY off the mark.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 09:57 AM

Well played England. Well played Theo Walcott, even though I think even he was a little surprised that his shot went in. Watch his reaction immediately after. Well played Danny Wellbeck, great skill under pressure. Well played Scott Parker, the best mid-fielder England have at this tournament so far. Someone mentioned Gerard up there somewhere but Gerard seems to be too concerned with the headlines so every time he gets the ball he goes across the field or back, too negative. Oh how England could do with Paul Scholes. How he would relish knocking through balls onto the likes of the speedy Wellbeck, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Young. I hate to say it but watch Rooney come on now and upset the apple cart.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 06:29 AM

Esp as Russia had the better goal difference than Greece, but lost their head-to-head.

Who makes these rules!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 05:08 AM

That was a brilliant win for the Greeks. Isn't it amazing that the Czechs, who lost their first game to Russia 4-1 are through as group winners, while the Russians are out? Funny old game!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 05:56 PM

From this blog about financial matters, a day ago:

"My guess is that Greeks will watch the game first, before they vote, and if their team is humiliated, as expected, they will vote to behave themselves and stay in the eurozone. If their team pulls off an upset, all bets are off."

So if she's right this football victory could have interesting consequences...