 sj |
||
|
||
BS: President Romney (prediction only)
|
|
|
Subject: BS: President Romney From: Songwronger Date: 10 Jun 12 - 10:06 PM Normally I wouldn't have given milqetoast Romney a chance in the upcoming election, but it looks as if the media has been directed to turn on Obama. His administration will now be plagued with scandal and innuendo up to the election, and he will lose to Romney. So what will a Romney administration be like? He's an ancient friend of Israel, so look for the jackass Joe Lieberman to become Sec of Defense or State. And Romney's an asset stripper, so he'll continue the work of killing the U.S. Post Office that Obama/Hastert began. Pension funds will be raided, social services will be shut down, none of Obama's god-like self-appointed powers will be repealed. It'll be like Reagan's "Imperial presidency" after Carter was one-termed. Any thoughts? McCain drafting resolution to call for special counsel on security leaks Attorney General Eric Holder names attorneys to investigate leaks McCain rejects Holder's leak probe, calls for outside counsel And finally,the bitch slap. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: gnu Date: 10 Jun 12 - 10:11 PM I got a thought. Romney doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: Rapparee Date: 10 Jun 12 - 10:15 PM If the GOP weren't divided now as badly as the Democratic Party used to be, he might have a chance. But it's (unfortunately) a looooooooooooooooooong time to the election. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: Bobert Date: 10 Jun 12 - 10:30 PM I agree with the wrong-man... The media is all over Obama... Exhibit A: "Worst week in 3 1 /2 years"... Those were the words of all BIG MEDIA... Two ways to look at anything... BIG MEDIA choose to look at it and report it 100% Romney, 0% Obama... Obama now has an uphill battle to win in November and it doesn't look possible... Bad enough to take on UNLIMITED Obama hate ads but now BIG MEDIA (owned by Republicans) are on board to take Obama out... Yup, Obama is toast and so are the American people who will end up carved like a T-Giving turkey and wondering... ..."Just how the hell this happen, Ralph?"... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: Songwronger Date: 10 Jun 12 - 10:41 PM Obama brought it on himself. He was going to "end the wars," and now he's bombing the Phillipines, fer chrissake. Fuck him. And the Repub party is uniting. The right-wing Paul family (Rand & Ron) are now supporting Romney, and the left-winger Repub candidates will toss him their support at the convention. On the bright side, there's less chance now that Obama will start his race wars, since he's going to lose. And speaking of race, I wouldn't be surprised if Romney picks Condoleeza Rice (shudder) as his running mate. That'll get women and blacks onboard. Romney really is a milquetoast, and he'll need all the help he can get, even with Soros' Spanish vote counting company doing the tally on election night. So I think it'll be Romney/Rice, with Joe Lieberman as Secretary of Defense, and some Goldman Sachs guy as head of Treasury. Sec of State has become a "woman's" position, so maybe Sarah Palin. Oh God help us. What a circus. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: Bobert Date: 10 Jun 12 - 10:54 PM No, Obama didn't bring this on himself... There was no way to end the wars... There was no way to close Gitmo... Do you even have an elementary understanding of American history and politics, wronger... Goes back a long time... John Kennedy was ready to bring every American out of Vietnam 3 weeks before his assassination but didn't do so because he said (in private conversations) that if he did the Joe McCarthy Repubs would accuse him of giving in to the commies and he'd loose the '64 election... There are certain things that a 1st term president can't pull off... You want sources on what I have reported, wronger, and I will produce them... Sometimes I assume that people understand.know history... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: Ebbie Date: 11 Jun 12 - 01:35 AM "So I think it'll be Romney/Rice, with Joe Lieberman as Secretary of Defense, and some Goldman Sachs guy as head of Treasury. Sec of State has become a "woman's" position, so maybe Sarah Palin." shhhhheeeesh Reminds me of some others who have made predictions in the past. Don't worry- we won't forget yours. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: Jack the Sailor Date: 11 Jun 12 - 08:47 AM Obama's ads here in North Carolina, are well done and I think, will be very effective. Romney promised Mass that he knew how to create jobs then led the state down to 47th out of 50 states in that area. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: GUEST,999 Date: 11 Jun 12 - 10:11 AM IF Republicans had anything to stand on other than innuendo about Obama, they'd be bragging about it. They ain't bragging. Ipso facto . . . . |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: GUEST Date: 11 Jun 12 - 10:30 AM Obama bombing the Philippines? WTF? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: Bobert Date: 11 Jun 12 - 10:43 AM Here in the Charlotte area, JtS, Obama is getting carpet bombed with nasty, negative advertising by a group that calls itself the "American Future Fund"... I Googled them up to see who the are and where they get their money... All the listed donors combined couldn't buy a night's worth of advertising so there's some very wealthy anonymous donors who don't want to be known... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: SINSULL Date: 11 Jun 12 - 11:23 AM "So I think it'll be Romney/Rice, with Joe Lieberman as Secretary of Defense, and some Goldman Sachs guy as head of Treasury. Sec of State has become a "woman's" position, so maybe Sarah Palin." heh heh I am printing this out and sticking it on my cubicle wall. Good one. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: Bobert Date: 11 Jun 12 - 11:29 AM Well, Miss Sarah is the right person for the job... Romney says that Russia is "our number one enemy" and Miss Sarah could keep an eye on them from her living room... B;~) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: Rapparee Date: 11 Jun 12 - 11:30 AM I don't think Obama can fly a plane, much less bomb the Philippines. A couple days ago he met with the President of the Philippines and they agreed to some stuff, but I don't see Barack Obama at the controls of an A-10 or B-52. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: Little Hawk Date: 11 Jun 12 - 12:58 PM Strategically speaking, in terms of possible future military challenges that arise between competing empires, Russia IS still the USA's number one rival in the world...with China rising to possibly supplant the Russians in that position, but China's not there yet. So, while what Romney said is rather idiotic in a human or moral sense...it is quite correct in a completely dispassionate sense of how Realpolitik plays out between major military powers. For example: Right from the end of WWI on until the actual day of December 7/41 the USA and Japan were each other's number one enemies in the Pacific. That's how they both saw it. Why? Because they were the two major naval powers in the Pacific during that period, that's why. And they both had their eyes on exploiting the material resources and trade routes and commerce in the Pacific and East Asia. This put them on a collision course. It made both of them constantly plan for possible future war contingencies with the other, play war games, build new warships and planes, scheme and plot and plan how they were going to one day defeat the other in a massive naval confrontation. The USA is similarly positioned now in regards to not Japan...but Russia and China. The basic issues haven't changed. The basic issues are who gets to have the controling hand over trade and vital resources such as: oil, precious metals, food, water, etc. He who can achieve military dominance in a theatre of potential war is normally the one who has control...whether by war itself or by the potential threat of war. The USA, Russia, and China all know this, and they all make plans for how to deal with it. India is another major player in the region...being a direct opponent of China. These things are real. For people like Romney to use such fears to manipulate voters, however, is just the usual crummy stuff that politicians do to get themselves elected...and they pretty much all do it. They scare the people to get votes, and wrap themselves in the flag. Romney and Obama are both guilty of employing such tactics, but why would that surprise anyone? It's standard behaviour. The sad thing is that the general public everywhere surrenders control of their lives to such people...and goes out to fight the war for them when a war comes. People should refuse to go. Cops should refuse to arrest the people who refuse to go. Soldiers should refuse to fight. If the entire population EVERYWHERE just refused the call to war, the game would come to an end. I don't see that happening. People are too accustomed to just following orders, and they don't realize the collective power they have to stand up and say "no"...nor do they realize that they have far more in common with the ordinary people in the rest of the world than they do with their own leaders. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: GUEST,kendall Date: 11 Jun 12 - 01:25 PM When the Supreme court decided that corporations are people, that sounded the death knell for our democracy. Millions are pouring into republican war chests. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: Little Hawk Date: 11 Jun 12 - 02:29 PM And Democratic war chests too, kendall! Don't forget...you cannot establish consistent control of government policy by controlling only 1 of 2 parties. You do it by controlling both of them. Dead simple. In Canada it's done by controlling all of them...given that we have basically 4 parties here. Equally dead simple. You just spread the big money around in several different directions, that's all. And you make it all back seven-fold after your various elected stooges de-regulate and privatize on your behalf once in office, purchase your services, and get the government to borrow more money and bail out the banksters if the system crashes. We haven't had to do the latter yet in Canada, because de-regulation hasn't gone that far yet in this country, so the banks have remained stable. Yes, if the Big Money people in the USA feel they can do better in the next 4 years with the Republicans, then they'll dump Obama and appoint Romney in his place. Obama has served them quite well in the past 4 years, I think, but perhaps not quite well as well as they would have wanted...or maybe they think it's just a good psychological moment for the old "change the face in Washington" routine to be played again. Time to replace "God in the White House" again. Whenever the public gets heartily disillusioned and upset with what's going on, you see, they kick out the old "face" and advance a new one, and that briefly resuscitates public confidence. Remember the thrill of hope when Obama was elected? I do. I felt it too. That's enough to keep the game just rolling on and on....just like the odd win at the casino keeps the players gambling on and on. They did something like that with Mubarak in Egypt. They kicked out the old "face" of the number 1 guy at the top, and people thought that everything would change with him gone. Well, it hasn't. The same oppressive military and security forces are still really in control of Egypt, just like they were before, they are agents of USA regional policy there, and Egyptians are waking up to that. They may have another popular revolution soon, the way it's going. All that has to be done, though, in more affluent and hypnotized North America is...just hold another election every few years, briefly renew public hope in the wonderful possibilities of their "democracy". That keeps people distracted enough to keep the basic oligarchic system in place. America isn't a democracy or a republic...it's a business conglomerate, and its number one business is war. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: GUEST,Songbob Date: 11 Jun 12 - 02:31 PM "Millions are pouring into republican war chests." Now, now, be accurate. It's BILLIONS. The anonymous buyers of elections have lots of money to spend, after all. They certainly aren't hiring many workers ("job cremators" indeed). All in defense of the 1%. Gah! I wouldn't be in the 1% if you gave me a million dollars! Bob (Think about it). |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: Amos Date: 11 Jun 12 - 02:43 PM The very title of this thread is a repulsive abomination not to be tolerated, fit only to frighten little children. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: Bobert Date: 11 Jun 12 - 02:47 PM I will bet a dollar to doughnuts that Romney and his Super PACS will outspend Obama and his PAC BIG time... They already are here in NC... Looks like about 5-1 so far... They are pounding Obama nightly on any channel you happen to be watching... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: Ebbie Date: 11 Jun 12 - 02:53 PM Just for the record, Little Hawk: I do not agree with your postulations. It is much too tidy and it is not borne out by history. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: Bobert Date: 11 Jun 12 - 02:59 PM I agree with Ebbie... If Obama has served them well then he is a known "servant" and a known servant doing his job is better than an unknown potential servant... No, Romney's BIG Super PAC $$$ is coming from the big polluters who want the EPA dead... Obama won't allow that... Romney would do it yesterday if he could... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney From: Don Firth Date: 11 Jun 12 - 03:07 PM Just a quick glance-through of this thread this morning turned up a fairl wagonful of dingo's kidneys from the usual suspects. Billions in corporate money pouring into the coffers of the Democratic Party? Not so's any Democrats I know have noticed! And Obama's bombing the Philippines? Philippine president Aquino solicited the support of the United States in a dispute with China over China's claims to territory in the South China Sea. Aquino and Obama are discussing the matter. Story Here. Obama bombing the Philippines? What fevered brain came up with THAT? Sounds like someone with about as much regard for the truth as Rush Limbaugh. Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Little Hawk Date: 11 Jun 12 - 04:59 PM I get that, Ebbie. ;-) Okay. I don't think that Romney is an "unknown potential servant" of the corporate interests, Bobert. I think his utterly fervent inclination to serve as a totally compliant servant of the Big Money interests is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, I can readily imagine that they are sending lots of money his way. They may feel that Obama's popularity is just too shaky at this point, and that they could generate more public enthusiasm for a Republican candidate now...whether or not it's Romney. If so, then I think Romney will get more funding than Obama. It's important for the system to advance a candidate who can somewhat restore public confidence at any particular juncture. In 2008 that candidate was Obama...far and away beyond the others. McCain was hopeless, the public had had it with the Republicans anyway after 8 terrible years of George Bush, and Hillary Clinton was too problematical because the of past levels of intense hostility against her on the part of about half of your electorate. Plus, Obama was like the liberal dream candidate...a "black" man with impeccable appearance and magnificent rhetorical skills...my God! Almost like a young Sidney Poitier. How can you possibly beat in the face of a public yearning for change after 8 years of George Bush? It was positively intoxicating, specially for those of us who grew up during the 60s and gave our hearts to the cause of racial equality. Hell, it was like a religious experience seeing him get elected! Remember? That was a marketer's dream. No wonder he got such great funding (from both the "little people" and the rich elite). If they figure that the thought of another 4 years of Obama will now just depress most people, then I think they'll advance Romney as the supposed "shining hope" of change, the new knight on the white horse. If they think Obama's still viable, on the other hand, then I think they'll basically back him and he'll get elected again. Either man can win...if he gets the right sort of media and money backing. That means the media and the money people can control the agenda if they simply work in concert with one another toward a common purpose, and I think they usually do. Either way, I think they'll get what they want...a corporate servant. I WISH I was wrong. I wish it wasn't that way. But it's that way in Canada too. And in the UK. And in Germany. And in France. The business people and banks have taken over the elections as far as I can see, because they have the money power to do so and why wouldn't they use that power to their own benefit when they have it?. If they can win regardless of which party gets elected, why should they really care which one gets elected...except in the sense of periodically boosting public confidence...and that's an important consideration. When public confidence gets a boost, it's a lot easier to slip by some very toxic legislation like the NDAA or like a bank bailout or a military move. People will support it if their guy is the leader who does it, because they want fervently to believe that he's honest and trustworthy. They voted for him, after all, so they WANT to believe he's a good guy, no matter what. They'll make excuses for him and say he "had no choice". They won't tolerate the same kind of toxic legislation, however, if the other party's guy is the leader. Not a chance. I've seen this happen a lot. The Obama administration can pass right wing legislation that would make most Mudcatters howl if Bush had done it! NDAA is a prime example. But when Obama does it, they stay quiet. After all, he's a Democrat, right? A "nice guy". A Democrat can quietly take away their civil rights, and they don't even seem to notice it, but when a Republican tries to do that, they are infuriated. That's how the partisan mind works, and that's why I really detest the very idea OF political parties. They bend people's minds out of shape and solidify their views of reality along party lines...instead of according to genuine moral principle. The thought of Romney getting elected horrifies me. The thought of Obama getting elected again depresses me. I don't expect to be presented with a 3rd (viable) choice, do you? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: akenaton Date: 11 Jun 12 - 05:33 PM Exactly so Little Hawk, but why do we continue with the pantomime? Just look at this forum compared to thousands of others on the net, we are not stupid people, there must be some other reason.....and the reason is that we all believe that we have some sort of sorry stake in this economic system......no matter how little we have, we've always got more than that other guy down the road! Only this time its different, this time they are going to take everything, starve our children and create two distinct classes, the rulers and the underclass....that is what "democracy" has produced. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 11 Jun 12 - 06:02 PM As one who has twice beaten doors for Ralph Nadar this is not a year to buy into all the Republican spin... Part of their narrative can be found in LH's posts... These continual "twiddle dee-twiddle dum" posts are straight outta the Republican PR war room... With that said, yeah, the right wing in America has accomplished it's goals... Soften up the entire country to expect nothing... Kinda like Somalia... I hate hearing kids say, "There won't be any Social Security for me when I retire"... That is one of the BIGGEST of the Republican ploys to make people anti-government and hate that they have to pay to help others... Social Security is so fixable it is pathetically laughable that kids don't realize that when they say/parrot this shit it's just another nail in their own coffin... Quit saying it!!! Quit parroting PR pablum as if it means anything at all... It doesn't... You don't want poison water and air and privatized everything else then quit propagating right wing propaganda... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: MarkS Date: 11 Jun 12 - 10:35 PM Hang on, folks, hang on and do not start the wake just yet. It is a long time till November and lots can, and probably will, happen prior to election day. For Petes sake we have not yet even had the conventions and official nominees yet. But in the spirit of the prediction game, I'll play along, so, ahem: President Obama does an LBJ and walks away, leaving the Democratic nominee to be.....................Hillary! Any other bombshells worth mentioning? Mark |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: akenaton Date: 12 Jun 12 - 03:44 AM I think the splits in the Democrat campaign can be laid at the door of Bill 'n Hill. As I have said many times, they were Mr Obama's biggest mistake. I believe that they have been working in their own interests, not the interests of the nation. Mrs Clinton has the dead eyes of a rattlesnake. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Mrrzy Date: 12 Jun 12 - 12:06 PM Ms. Rodham Clinton to you! Church will become state... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Jack the Sailor Date: 12 Jun 12 - 12:07 PM I think that if Hillary and Joe Biden swapped jobs the Dems would not lose a single state from last time. That is IF Hillary can be a team player. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Amos Date: 12 Jun 12 - 12:54 PM I think the fact that she might not be able to be demonstrates Obama's wisdom in placing her in her kingdom-once-removed. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: kendall Date: 12 Jun 12 - 03:00 PM The election depends on how many gullible fools believe the lies the right wingers are spinning. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 12 Jun 12 - 07:06 PM Just finished watching the NBC news (5:30 - 7:00) and Citizens United won 7 to 1... Yup, 7 ads either pounding on Obama or telling us a bunch of lies about how great Romney will be as president... One ad for Obama... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Greg F. Date: 13 Jun 12 - 11:25 AM The U.S. has no shortage of gullible fools, Kendall. In the last 20 years or so, ignorance has been enshrined as a virtue, and there has been a population explosion of gullible fools. And they're PROUD of the fact that they're gullible fools. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Ebbie Date: 13 Jun 12 - 11:48 AM Ya know, if we created a 'GULLIBLE FOOLS' placard/poster, attached a shoulder board and footnoted it: VOTE REPUBLICAN along with an address, they just might buy it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 13 Jun 12 - 01:05 PM I am conservative in my views, and would support a conservative candidate. but the legislators most prominent now wish to destroy many useful government services rather than improve them. The Republicans want to radically reform agencies of the government, eliminating services that act to develop new procedures or products- the very services that add to income and employment and should be preserved by a business-oriented administration. For the above reason, if I was able to vote in the election, I would support Obama. (Ex-US citizen, now Canadian) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Jun 12 - 01:47 PM If I was able to vote in it, I could not in good conscience vote for either Obama or Romney, but that doesn't mean I couldn't find other individuals to vote for on the lower levels. It isn't just a question of voting for the one person who will be president. Curiously enough, we do NOT vote for the "leader" in Canada at all. We vote for the local candidates of the various parties, not for the party leaders themselves. The leader of the winning party then becomes the Prime Minister, but only the people in his local riding actually voted directly for him (or her). Nevertheless, our elections are conducted as if we were all voting for the party leaders, so in a psychological sense, that is pretty much what is happening. I'm not campaigning for either side, Bobert. You are campaigning for one side. That's why we see the situation differently. You're treating it as a partisan matter, I'm not. How can you reconcile the fact that Mr Obama has brought in even more draconian domestic legislation (the NDAA) than Bush ever dared to do? Here is Rachel Maddow's take on that: Rachel Maddow talks about Obama and the NDAA She's concerned about it. Rightly so! How about you? What would you have said if George Bush had been the man who enacted such patently unconstitutional and oppressive domestic legislation as the NDAA? Or if Romney did? You'd be very upset... But what about when Obama does it? Is it somehow "okay" to enact fascism when a Democrat does it....as long as the Republicans aren't the ones who do it? Partisan mind. It turns the blind eye when its own party takes it down the road to what it would find totally unacceptable and outrageous, were the other party to do it. That's how those 2 parties have you in their grasp. And they are both taking you very clearly down the road to a totalitarian state. Do you really think that supporting either one of them is going to preserve your vanishing freedoms? In an American election I would vote for individuals I believe in and trust...if there were any such individuals named on the ballot. I do not believe in or trust Mr Obama or Mr Romney. I might find someone else to believe in on your ballot, though...and if so, I'd vote for them...regardless which party they were in. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 13 Jun 12 - 02:59 PM In the US, as in Canada, it is the elected representatives that count most- Representatives and senators in the US, elected MPs in Canada. Look at Boehner in the US Congress, with a majority behind him he can be stronger than the president. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Jun 12 - 03:17 PM Yes. Particularly in the USA. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 13 Jun 12 - 03:33 PM ""Do you even have an elementary understanding of American history and politics, wronger..."" He doesn't even have an elementary understanding of what he had for breakfast Bobert. I'm absolutely amazed that he can use a computer. He comes over as one who wouldn't understand anything with more than one knob to turn. On/Off, that's it! Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 13 Jun 12 - 03:44 PM ""What fevered brain came up with THAT? Sounds like someone with about as much regard for the truth as Rush Limbaugh."" He calls himself "songwronger", which may well be thonly true word he has ever posted, and to have a ""fevered brain"" he would first need to have a brain installed. Five brain cells would produce a fivefold increase in his capacity to lie about Obama, but little else. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Jun 12 - 03:55 PM How will devastating verbal attacks made via the Internet upon another human being's ego assist in advancing any political causes you espouse, Don T? And do you imagine that by insulting and demeaning Songwronger you will somehow persuade him to change his mind or go away? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 13 Jun 12 - 04:20 PM Songwronger is restating what I just said..and I agree with him..or should I say, the both of us....Question is, who has directed the media to do just that??...THEN, you'll be getting somewhere! Could it be, as 'suggested' before something like this?? GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: JohnInKansas Date: 13 Jun 12 - 04:29 PM When the Supreme court decided that corporations are people, that sounded the death knell for our democracy. Millions are pouring into republican war chests. The principle that a corporation is a "person" was established primarily by the "Marshall Court" (1801 - 1835) when Chief Justice John Marshall and "his court" faced the problem of creating concepts of what a corporation should be, in the face of an increase in schemes for making money, many of which were destructive, unfair to competing interests, and counter to principles (and to some extent ideals) inherent in the founding structure of the country. The thing decided by the recent SCOTUS was not that the corporation is a person, since that was already an established concept. What the new decision was is that a "corporate person" is different in a specific way from an "actual person," and also different than some "other kinds of persons that are not real persons" in that a "corporate person" may make UNLIMITED donations to a "person" running for political office, while "other kinds of persons, including real persons" are restricted in the amounts they may donate. It MIGHT BE appropriate, based on prior principles, to allow corporate donations; but the Court evaded (or was too stupid to see the full impact) the need to more fully define limits on the "personhood" of corporations as political donors in a way consistent with the limits on others. It is an established principle in law, and particularly for the Supreme Court, that a court should answer only the questions asked by petitioners, and if the question isn't asked there is a principle involved when the court limits their own extension of the question, to establish new rules that are not clearly and directly related to the suit. To do more would be the "activism" so widely claimed (often falsely, esp by Replublican lackeys) by those who just don't like any limits on their ability to abuse the law. The decision on Corporate Donations is WRONG, only partly because the Court made a poor decision, but mainly because petitioners didn't ask the complete and appropriate questions. (And nobody filed a counter-petition to raise questions about the obvious consequences.) John |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 13 Jun 12 - 06:14 PM I agree, it was either stupid or argued wrong. Foreign countries, corporations, big unions, and the banksters all made out with it....as for the people...you know, as in 'We the People' got shafted. hopefully, and hopefully soon, it can be turned around....but I'm not holding my breath.. GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 13 Jun 12 - 07:45 PM Another 7 Romney/anti-Obama ads (5:30 to 700) tonight by anonymous donors (Koch brothers, et al) One Obama ad paid for by Obama's campaign... Score 7 to 1... Cowards win... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 13 Jun 12 - 09:37 PM Soros has out spent the Kochs in multiples, Bobert! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Amos Date: 13 Jun 12 - 09:45 PM As usual, John, thanks for a lucid analysis. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 13 Jun 12 - 09:50 PM You Lie, GfinS... Where ever you came up with that is Bogus as a three dollar bill!!! B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 13 Jun 12 - 10:09 PM Bobert, Read ALL the way, to the end.....let the chips fall where they may! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 13 Jun 12 - 10:17 PM I'm not reading right winged blogs, thank you!!! Do some real research, GfinS!!! Your facts are LIES!!! You should be ashamed to be so ignorant... Outta your Tea ballgames... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 13 Jun 12 - 10:30 PM Right winged blog???? There you go again..it's just a report...AND BTW..its ALL dwarfed by Immelt's $500,000,000,000 fiasco, and by the Trillion dollars unaccounted for from this administration!.. Where did it go??? You think it went to a political party??...or to the bankers and corporations who own the parties??...To the people who have to pay it back, WITH INTEREST!?...or are you going to look the other way?? why not?..You listen to stereo politicians, speaking from both sides of their mouths..so you can uphold your double standards! Get over it!...Besides, I'm not a fan of the Koch's, or Soros, or the banksters..YOU apparently are! Here!..Here is a 'left winged' blog...You tell me! ..and they're bragging about it! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 13 Jun 12 - 10:55 PM If you have any source that puts So5ros ahead of the Kochs then please PM Don with it and if it passes muster with him he will relate it... I don't have time for your right winged bloggers... I deal with thousands of them every week at the Washington Post and they all are paid operate LIARS who sound just like your sources... BOGUS is BOGUS... When will you ever learn to get beyond the first 50 pages in th4e search engines??? The first 50 pages are all LIES!!! All of them... LIES!!! You still don't get it, do you??? Yo are such a corporate dupe... No offesnse... But you are... I could sell you ice in Alaska... Get your head outta right wing blogs... Bye until you you have facts... Not LIES... Don't have time for LIES and LIARS... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 13 Jun 12 - 11:39 PM 50 pages in th4e search engines??? The first 50 pages are all LIES!!! All of the GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Little Hawk Date: 14 Jun 12 - 02:50 AM Why don't you guys settle this in a dignified and rational manner...by throwing custard pies at one another until the loser finally gets down on his knees and PUBLICLY CONFESSES to being a secret sympathizer and a PAID agent of the most dreadful right wing blogs, banksters, and major corporations....as well as having Jewish blood, being gay, being a Communist, a rapist, a serial murderer, a vampire, a fascist, a satanist, a fundamentalist, an illegal immigrant, a Muslim jihadist, a woman-hating pig, an anti-semite, a racist, a torturer of small cute animals, a congenital liar, a Crest tooth paste addict, a gun nut, and...ummm...oh yeah, a child molester! And all at the same time too! Not easy, but that's just how BAAAAAAD you must be to be disagreeing with someone about politics on Mudcat. Let's deal with the FACTS, by God! ;-D |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 14 Jun 12 - 03:15 AM Are they coming to take you away, too, Little Hawk?? I just cracked up when Bobert 'complained' that there were "50 pages on the search engine" on the topic..!!..Then accuses me of making this up!!!..."that they're ALL LIES"...and I "don't 'get it'"... Fucking incredible!!!......... ........and then I'm "the corporate dupe"! Regards!! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 14 Jun 12 - 08:34 AM Other than taking 30 minutes to do some out-door work I've been watching CBS morning show since it happens to have actual news rather than the juvenile stuff on the other morning shows... Since 7:00 am the score is: Citizen Cowards United 4 Obama 0 Here's the rael deal for any thinking person... If North Carolina is such an important state for Obama to carry then how come they are being outspent 7-1 here in NC if they have all this Soros $$$???? Wes Ginny logic and math... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 14 Jun 12 - 08:41 AM Update... Citizen Cowards United 5 Obama 0 Not too sure what the final score will be for this morning but the Cowards still have another 22 minutes... BTW, the Magna Carta goes back to 1215 AD and one of the pieces of it is that a man has the right to face his accuser... So much for 8 centuries of accepted legal principle... Best democracy that cowards can buy.... Speaking if "buy", bye... Time to punch the clock... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 14 Jun 12 - 09:14 AM ""How will devastating verbal attacks made via the Internet upon another human being's ego assist in advancing any political causes you espouse, Don T?"" What you see as devastating attacks, LH, I see as a reasonable assessment based upon the lies, propaganda and sheer drivel which he not only disseminates, but apparently fervently believes. I don't expect to change his mind (if such there be) about anything, and I don't think you are likely to change mine by sitting on the sidelines and passing judgement without adding anything of value to the threads. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 14 Jun 12 - 09:57 AM Try this!!!!...If you think the two parties are 'different'! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Little Hawk Date: 14 Jun 12 - 12:17 PM Well, Don, I'm suggesting that people might better talk about politics itself if that's what they want to do, rather than slagging off each other personally instead. I sometimes do post my political opinions, provide links to commentary by people like Rachel Maddow or Eric Margolis, whatever comes to mind at the time, and I am interested in whatever people have to say of substance about the political scene, but what use are all these personal attacks that people launch on each other's character on these threads? If this place was moderated the way most forums are, it wouldn't be allowed. It's not as bad as Youtube here, at least. I gather that's because most of the participants here are a bit older than the average age on Youtube. But are they really that much more mature or have they just learned a more sophisticated form of language to use when denigrating each other over differences of opinion? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: pdq Date: 14 Jun 12 - 12:34 PM Little Hawk is hereby declared the official 1st recipient of the Mudcat annual Don Quixote Award. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Little Hawk Date: 14 Jun 12 - 12:44 PM GfS - Hilarious! Obama's ad slamming McCain over the economy in 2008 and Romney's ad slamming Obama over the economy in 2012 are identical in format and style and even use the same portentous, scary music!!! LOL! They may have been created by the very same advertising agency for the very same price for all we know...and why should those people care whether it's McCain or Obama they're picking on? They're getting paid well to design the attack ad, right? And it works on a lot of the gullible schmucks out there in TV-land, right? It plays on the frustrations of a public who sense they're been betrayed for the last 4 years....just like they were betrayed for the previous 8 years (by Bush), and the previous 8 years before that (by Clinton), and the previous 4 years before that (by Bush I), etc.... But people's memories tend to be short. So their anger naturally focuses on the most recent betrayal and the face they associate with that betrayal. And thus the attack ad is designed to play on their frustration and focus their rage on an easily identifiable target...Obama in this case. Presidents are just disposable men in suits. They're all temporary. They are not the magic solution to the world's problems. They're not supermen. It's the financial/military/police system behind them that has the power, not the little men in suits...Obama and Romney. The system behind them understands the use of propaganda and has spent many decades studying how to push people's buttons, tap into their fear and anger, and get them to rush to the barricades like lemmings behind yet another presidential "messiah". Those kind of ads are a crude and primitive way of harnessing people's fear and anger so they'll briefly get enthusiastic again and back another empty suit of a man like Romney...their new supposed "messiah" who will somehow make it all right. Not a chance. Obama couldn't make it all right, and neither can Romney, but the system behind them doesn't care, it just plays the game as it always plays the game, and it has the guns, the bombs, the police, the jails, the surveillance, the jets, the mercenaries...it has the tools of violence in place, and is willing to use them. The Big Charade now rolls through to November. I wonder how outrageous it will get this time before it's done? (Note, people, that the above comments criticize the existing social order and the existing governmental order. They do not criticize any individuals on this forum nor are they a personal attack upon individuals on this forum.) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 14 Jun 12 - 01:12 PM For the record, I am talking politics and policies... Certain people don't like that so they attack me and/or try to put me in a "Teribus Trap" where they can use endless right wing blogs that look like real facts but are fluff... Homie ain't fallin' for that trick any more than I did for it when Teribus, the trap-master himself, tried it on me during the mad-dash-to-Iraq debates... My premise that "Citizens United" has unleashed an endless supply of $$$ to beat Obama while Obama is stuck with a finite amount with which to defend... My premise is that the Republican/Tea Party have been behind bsuting unions and as a consequence the working class has not seen a real increase in wages (after inflation) since 1982... My premise is the Republican Party has signaled that it wants to privatize both Medicare and Social Security and that if they are able to accomplish that that the folks who handle it will become middle men and siphon off 25% or more for themselves, just as health insurance companies are doing now... My premise is that BIG MEDIA now represents the Republican Party and that if their ever was a "liberal media", it is long gone... These are real politic/policies that go well beyond attacks... I bring them up over and over and certain people here have never once put forth a rebuttal other than attacks and T-Traps... BTW, I predict that Citizen Cowards United will win in November... They are winning now... 7-1 in spending in swing states... Republican media... I'll do what I can but speech is no longer free... It, like everything else, is privatized... He with the most $$$ get the microphone... That waters down my one-man-one-vote free speech... If Obama, however, had the $$$ that the American Future Fund is getting from the Koch brothers and their buddies, he would at least be able to have equal time... It's a shame when the president of the United States can't even get equal time... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: akenaton Date: 14 Jun 12 - 01:27 PM Mr Obama was elected on a ticket of "equality", "transparency" and "democracy".......his personal fingerprints are on the policy of "assasination by drone".....execution without judge or jury for the guilty....slaughter for the innocents. This will end Mr Obama's political career.....if the American people have enough guts to remove the stain from their country. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: akenaton Date: 14 Jun 12 - 01:31 PM BTW Don, you have some nerve denigrating songwronger, who's posts are much more thought provoking than anything you submit....usually nothing more than bile and abuse. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 14 Jun 12 - 02:12 PM Little Hawk, I found that article a couple of days AFTER I posted that the scripts were the same, but reversed, as to who got them..matter of fact, the article came out AFTER my post!!! Why, can't people who claim to have some corner on being 'aware' not see this???..Your post was, again, right on the money!! In a way, I could feel sorry for all the Obama supporters, knowing that this all may come out in the wash, and how devastated they'll be, to find out that their guy, is actually the other guy, in disguise!..but, like I posted quite a while ago.."Snap now, and avoid the 'rush'" ..and Romney??..What another delusion!!! So, I hope this story goes 'viral', and another 'reasonably' straight candidate emerges..like I told Don, I wish I could point to someone who I could vote for, but they are all in collusion with each other!! ...and Bobert, please for the sake of your own mental and emotional stability..WE, your friends, are telling you the truth!!...(besides, music has had a greater influence in the world than politics!) Apartheid was done away with, not by politics, as much as Bono!! We NEED to come together, as soon as the obscuring dust settles, and speak with a clear voice!!...Yes WE can!!!....others are just bullshittin'! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 14 Jun 12 - 03:02 PM You are perhaps telling me what you BELIEVE is true, GfinS, but when faced with "yes/no" questions you "run like pigs from a gun"... You offer material that is most likely not truer as your defense... You "assume" that if it's on the inter net then it is true... You refuse to accept the notion that search engines are packed heavily on the front end with propaganda that looks like it might be true but, in fact, is there to clog up the truth... So there you are with one Tea Party position after another and proclamations that your "facts" are factual... You refuse to speak from your own knowledge (if you have any) of policy... When boxed into yet another corner you answer by SCREAMING QUESTIONS as if those questions are answers... They are not... They are defense mechanisms and not all that sophisticated at that... And you make wild generalizations using TEA talking points... George Soros seems to be a convenient all-purpose boogie-man... "Freedom"... "Repeal every word of the (Affordable Care Act")... TEA, tea and more tea.... No thought... No apparent knowledge of the subject... Just proclamations... Hey, I'm not attacking you... I am pointing out things that I have observed about your posting here... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 14 Jun 12 - 03:52 PM Sigh....well, it all goes to show, 'Little things, amuse little minds'. I'm not buying into your 'Let's be small' rap. This country is in scary, sad shape because of the masters behind the charade...I just wish you could see it cleared...or for that matter, at all! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 14 Jun 12 - 04:34 PM It is said that great thinkers speak of ideas, average thinkers speak of events and small thinkers speak about people... I have laid out policy ideas here on just about any issue out there on this thread and elsewhere around the CatBox... Can't recall you laying out one real "idea"... Do the math... BTW, your twiddle-dee-twiddle-dum song and dance routine is dated... You should have been around when it was not only true but "in"... Two Republican Wars and a new Republican War on the New Deal have changed things considerably... Your timing is off... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: MarkS Date: 14 Jun 12 - 09:43 PM Bobert, calm down, take a deep breath, and go to your happy place. The election is not till months away, and if you bust a gut now it would be a great loss. We need all the people doing covers of Son House we can get! I mean, I don't want to see a thread titled "Death Letter Blues" announcing you gone from a stroke! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,TIA Date: 15 Jun 12 - 12:48 AM Why does anyone engage the poor soul who has now promised eye-opening in-depth analysis of several issues and produced exactly zero. Dont' stop in much anymore, but memory of an elephant. Thanks to Bobert for living in a fact-based universe. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 15 Jun 12 - 12:50 AM Well give me an appropriate thread! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 15 Jun 12 - 11:49 AM Why??? So you can attack everyone and, like the others, get it closed??? B;~) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Jun 12 - 01:21 PM Do I see a smile on your face, Bobert? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 15 Jun 12 - 01:44 PM Another ninnyhammer (excepting Bobert) thread. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Amos Date: 15 Jun 12 - 02:03 PM I have been reading a fascinating history of the Central Intelligence Agency from WW II on. It is a dramatic story of psychotic, delusionary, arm-waving nutballs lying and mismanaging the AMerican government from within. It really gave me pause, to see clearly described the kind of perfervid insanity laid out in black and white that I instinctively knew must have been in play throughout the 50's and 60's. It gave names and events to what was back then just a cloud of absolutely untrustworthy gawdawful insanity. Among others, John FOster and Aleen Dulles, the Bobbsy Twins of Drooling Psychosis in AMerican Gummint. My point is that I can sympathize with GfS and LH's broad mistrust and their assertions about the secret string pulling at the top levels of government. But like the economy, it doesn't actually percolate from the top down, but from the hidden middle outward. They would both speak more clearly if they could identify the actual sources of what they instinctively abhor. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 15 Jun 12 - 02:03 PM ""BTW Don, you have some nerve denigrating songwronger, who's posts are much more thought provoking than anything you submit....usually nothing more than bile and abuse."" Thank you Ake. Adverse comment from you means I am on the right track. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,999 Date: 15 Jun 12 - 02:37 PM "I think Obama might have had some ideals left when he got to Washington, but certain economic realities and the Golden Rule--who has the gold makes the rules--have become his mantra because there was no choice. I suppose something is better than nothing. The more Obama is seen as the problem the more will the real problem--corrupt financial markets, corrupt representatives, corrupt courts and subsequently corrupt laws--skulk behind the curtains and do as they have done for decades. Obama may be the one person who could fend off totalitarian rule in the USA, but for that he needs time. The people of the USA will be crushed within months if resistance does break out, and since media keeps people happy now, most Americans wouldn't experience any real change. Stupidity is as stupidity does. I agree with Saws and GfS with regard to the endgame, not because Obama is necessarily a bad man, but because it is close to impossible to override the various security organizations in the US. There are more than a few agendas being carried out, and I am not assured by anything I've seen for a few years that it will be good for the notion of democracy. Dick asked an important question in his first post: Can we afford Democracy? It depends. If we want two cars, electric razors, hair dryers, electric tooth brushes, lights on in every room, occupied or not, disposable machines that are defunct even before they are manufactured, genetically engineered foods, red slime, drugs prescribed by doctors that are sold for many times their cost, then NO, we can't afford democracy. But the real question as I see it is 'can we afford freedom?'. Listening to most people here from either side of the equation, it seems you all think yes. Now, what will you do about that? Because shouting at each other ain't gonna get 'er done, capiche?" The above was posted by a brilliant political analyst on another thread; he is seldom heard on CNN. Modesty prevents me from saying who. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Don Firth Date: 15 Jun 12 - 03:37 PM Perhaps an aside here, but an important one: Lately I've been discounting what people quote from the Huffington Post. Recently it's been using some of the same writers who write for the WND newsletter (World Net Daily), which is an internet rag somewhat to the right of Genghis Khan. WND publishes vast quantities of anti-Obama propaganda, most of which they make up themselves. They still maintain that Obama was born in Kenya—or Indonesia (they can't seem to make up their minds)—that he is a secret member of the Socialist Party, and that he is gay. And that Obama is the Anti-Christ. And, yes, it has a fundamentalist Christian orientation. The Huffington Post must have recently taken a giant step to the Right—or Arianna is just not minding the store. Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 15 Jun 12 - 04:37 PM Guest,999: "The more Obama is seen as the problem the more will the real problem--corrupt financial markets, corrupt representatives, corrupt courts and subsequently corrupt laws--skulk behind the curtains and do as they have done for decades. Obama may be the one person who could fend off totalitarian rule in the USA, but for that he needs time. The people of the USA will be crushed within months if resistance does break out, and since media keeps people happy now, most Americans wouldn't experience any real change. Stupidity is as stupidity does." Bruce, you have articulated the dilemma, not only brilliantly, but with the clear thinking, that makes prognostications, such as these, damn near prophetic!!! I see the exact same thing!...that's why I posted, in one of these recent posts, that IF Obama really wanted to turn things around, he should level with the American public, and reveal what is really going on, and who is behind it! MANY independents and unaffiliated voter's ears would instantly perk up..and probably support him..that is IF he could lay out a game plan as to what he would actually do about it!...AND(a BIG 'AND') could somehow gain some credibility!...'cuz right now, he ain't very credible...and people, more or less see him as a narcissistic Marxist..some people like that, some don't, but however you see him, or how he is perceived, his 'trust value' is in the tank! ...W-A-A-A-Y too many broken promises, and contradictions, and now, even treasonous scandalous leaks, breaking out of the White House..including trade deals, intelligence leaks, UN-Constitutional amnesty deals for votes, (I'm sure it wasn't to help the millions of unemployed find jobs!), and his out of touch gaffs!....not to mention, a hugely unpopular Obamacare, which is stagnating job growth! That being said, Obama ISN'T the problem....but his bullshit ain't either addressing it, nor even attempting to solve it...because to do it, he'd have to shed some of his ideological core beliefs, or quit trying to pander to those who lean that way, and get back to the principles of our Constitution, and ITS intent!!............otherwise, it's all over, except the sound of 'glock-glock', as it all goes down the toilet!........ .............Besides, this is America..where the PEOPLE are the ones making the machine run...NOT the ever-hindering 'politicians/banksters'!!!! Regards Bruce!....Good post...I hope a lot of folks on here 'get it'! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Stringsinger Date: 15 Jun 12 - 04:42 PM Romney is a corporatist. Mussolini was a corporatist. Corporate control of government = Fascism. The working and middle class will not have a chance. fascism |ˈfa sh ˌizəm| (also Fascism) noun an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. • (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Jun 12 - 05:00 PM Interesting post you did back there, Amos. You said, "My point is that I can sympathize with GfS and LH's broad mistrust and their assertions about the secret string pulling at the top levels of government. But like the economy, it doesn't actually percolate from the top down, but from the hidden middle outward." Yeah, you could say that....I guess it depends what you mean by "the top". I certainly don't primarily blame presidents themselves (if they are what you mean by the top), because they are so greatly manipulated, as you say, by the hidden middle. That hidden middle isn't people we get a chance to vote for, it's the people who run the finances and the covert agencies like the CIA. They have agendas that dangle the politicians like puppets on strings as far as I can see. And if a politician doesn't cooperate with them, he doesn't get too far. Obama may have thought he could change Washington. If so, Washington has changed him. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Don Firth Date: 15 Jun 12 - 05:17 PM You're sure willing to give up easy, Little Hawk! Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 Jun 12 - 01:07 AM Amos(and re-quoted by Little Hawk): "My point is that I can sympathize with GfS and LH's broad mistrust and their assertions about the secret string pulling at the top levels of government. But like the economy, it doesn't actually percolate from the top down, but from the hidden middle outward." OK, just listen up and consider.....unless the economy and productivity, are under siege(look up definition), to weaken the resolve, of a nation of people, to replace the system, means of exchange, redefining freedom..and the mere tolerance of any remnant of it, and selectively criminalizing any perceived threat, either real or not, at the discretion of those few, who manipulated their way to the top.....EVERYONE else, then becomes, either disposable or a threat, for posing ANYTHING that could be needed or producing anything depended on! ESPECIALLY..the most powerful thing; an independent thought. GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Stringsinger Date: 16 Jun 12 - 10:54 AM If you think that governmental corruption comes from the middle management area then you are naive. Upper level corporate powers now control the government, establish regulatory bodies, finance foreign wars abroad and their idea of "freedom" is domination and control over your mind and labor. As to independent thought, this is not greatly prized in America today but gone after as seditious. Whistle-blowers are criminalized by those who standto make money (Cui bono), the big companies that pay the electoral bills. American citizens are the frog in the boiling water, soon to be cooked by the encroaching heating level of fascism. It can happen here and is. "First they came for the whistle-blowers, Bradley Mannings, Julian Assanges, the press .....and independent thought.....(to paraphrase Martin Neimoller). The idea is to punish those who dissent, digress and cry out for the plight of humanity by distorting the news, controlling the media and beating demonstrators. Romney is Robocorp and plays right into the game. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: akenaton Date: 16 Jun 12 - 11:37 AM Come on Frank,what about Mr Obama's drones? I agree with most of your post tho'. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Little Hawk Date: 16 Jun 12 - 12:58 PM I'm talking about the actual subject matter of the thread, Don. You're talking about me. Note the difference. Your opinion of me is irrelevant. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Jun 12 - 01:22 PM Does anyone remember what the subject of this thread was? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Don Firth Date: 16 Jun 12 - 02:05 PM No, Little Hawk, my comment was very much to the point. Those who give up, or counsel others to give up, are a major part of the problem. Think about it! Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 Jun 12 - 09:31 PM Stringsinger, I know we've had just a few differences in the past...BUT..you're sounding more like me, virtually with every post.. Evolution?? ....and YES!, I agree wholeheartedly with you spiel on 'Independent Thought'!!! ..You'd think that in a country, that prided itself on 'independence' that independent thinkers would be thought of as a prized national treasure....now, the way things are, you get the feeling that they'd like to 'lock up' that treasure in a 'chest', and throw away the key! Right along with that, on the other thread, you posted a list of 'solutions'...and one of them you listed: "3. Be careful of religious jingoism such as "anti-Christ" or anti-gay talk." ...in like manner, do NOT confuse 'religious jingoism', with the spiritual privilege of, "Loving others as you do yourself....doing unto others as you would have done to you"!.....This has nothing to do with 'religion'...and is as far removed from the Spiritual, as politics are from Patriotic Statesmen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let's be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater...and to be, at least, able to distinguish the two from each other!! Regards Strings!! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 Jun 12 - 09:38 PM CORRECTION!! I'm re-posting the last thread, because of a confusing sentence...DELETE the other one, please. Thank You. Stringsinger, I know we've had just a few differences in the past...BUT..you're sounding more like me, virtually with every post.. Evolution?? ....and YES!, I agree wholeheartedly with you spiel on 'Independent Thought'!!! ..You'd think that in a country, that prided itself on 'independence' that independent thinkers would be thought of as a prized national treasure....now, the way things are, you get the feeling that they'd like to 'lock up' that treasure in a 'chest', and throw away the key! Right along with that, on the other thread, you posted a list of 'solutions'...and one of them you listed: "3. Be careful of religious jingoism such as "anti-Christ" or anti-gay talk." ...in like manner, do NOT confuse 'religious jingoism', with the spiritual privilege of, "Loving others as you do yourself....doing unto others as you would have done to you"!.....This has nothing to do with 'religion'...and ' religion is as far removed from being Spiritual, as politics are from Patriotic Statesmen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let's be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater...and to be, at least, able to distinguish the two from each other!! Regards Strings!! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 16 Jun 12 - 09:53 PM Strings has it correct... Fascists always buddy up to the industrialists... A Romney win will begin the beginning (or ending, depending on one's perspective...) of America, the neo-fascist state... Make no bones about it... I'm not saying this to win debating points or scare anyone... I am saying this because I have lived long enough and paid enough attention to see American move closer and closer to the edge if fascism... When a Supreme Court calls off an election, it doesn't take a weather-man to tell which way the wind blows... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 Jun 12 - 10:04 PM Bobbins: "When a Supreme Court calls off an election, it doesn't take a weather-man to tell which way the wind blows..." Bobert, oh Bobert.....when you finally 'come to' and sober up, from your political party crap, it may finally dawn on you, that REAL and HONEST elections, have been called off for decades now. Think about it. ...and I'm NOT insulting you...just connecting a dot or two. GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 16 Jun 12 - 10:25 PM Read either Greg Palist's "Best Democracy Money Can Buy" which goes into detail on how Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush went about disenfranchising upwards of 80,000 voters in Florida or Alan M, Dershowitz's "Supreme Injustice" about how the Supreme Court Hijacked the 2000 election... When you have at least a basic knowledge of what went down come back and tell us how we should be proud to have you lecture us with Tea propaganda... You play that classless and free twiddle dee-twiddle dum song real well... I've been there and you are a phony... You parrot right wing policy over and over and over and over and over... Maybe you are so programed that you really don't get it??? Maybe you need to get some professional help (remember I was a social worker dealing with mentally ill clients) to get you out of your denial... Just a suggestion... Like we used to say: "How many social workers does it take to change a light bulb?"... Answer: One, but the light bulb has to want to be changed... Again. no attack... No disrespect... Just observations based on facts and reality... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 16 Jun 12 - 10:35 PM BTW, I find it interesting that Romneyy blew threw hundreds of million$$$ getting to the point where he is today... Obama has been criticized for being out there campaigning and trying to raise $$$... It has been reported that Romney has overtaken Obama in fund raising and that doesn't even include Super PACS... Obama has 50 times as many donors as Romney... Hmmmmmm???? Lotta billionaires throwing the BIG $$$ to Romney... Don't sing the "Both Side Shuffle" to me... I'd rather hear Bobbby Goldsboro's "Honey" over and over... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 16 Jun 12 - 11:10 PM BTW, isn't it interesting that Romney's BIG ASS $$$$ people have even chosen Mudcat to use as yet another vehicle to try to buy up more government??? Yup, at the end of this thread are anti-Obama ads... Enjoy... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 Jun 12 - 11:23 PM You are not making sense...and, I'm NOT a Romney supporter...AND...I'm not a Tea party person, either....I don't know how many times you have to be told, by not only me, but others in here, who happen to be a little more coherent than you!..You keep trying to box people into your little divisive boxes and idioms, of 'likely origin of talking points'. There is SOME truth in all the political points of view....that is plainly obvious, being as certain truths caught YOUR attention, in the Democratic Party.............JEEZ, you still even tout that LBJ was a wonderful guy, because he signed some stuff in to make himself LOOK like a different guy, who vetoed it about 5 years previous. You bought into the illusion..I DIDN'T...Not about LBJ, not about Bush, Not about the Koch Bros., not about Obama, not about Clinton, not about Soros, not about the Rockefellers, NONE OF THEM!!....AND ...I was, and still am right! Sit on it, Ralphie! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 17 Jun 12 - 10:20 AM Denial, denial and more denial... Quit with Tea, GfinS, and maybe you won't be called on it... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 17 Jun 12 - 11:43 AM Oh, heck... ...100... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: akenaton Date: 17 Jun 12 - 06:34 PM The only way that real change can be effected, is in the manner suggested bt Little Hawk and GfS. Live your lives in the best and kindest manner possible, stop looking for short term answers to long term problems, understand that no political party has any interest in you or your neighbours personally, but views you as a series of numbers on election cards. Understand that the US and the UK are deeply conservative nations, based on a history of bullying and exploitation and to change these societies it is is imperative to unite with the social conservatives whom you believe are your enemies. This divisive system is your enemy,it and its leaders are powerless against unity......its "fifth columb" are the vicious little worker bees we see on these pages agitating for their party of choice. They love this system with its wars, exploitation and greed, yet pretend that their small voices can produce change.....they dont really want change, they want one small victory! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: akenaton Date: 17 Jun 12 - 06:40 PM Be suspicious of everything said or done by the government! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,999 Date: 17 Jun 12 - 06:48 PM Well said, Ake. Did you ever get the message I sent via Mudcat? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: akenaton Date: 17 Jun 12 - 07:04 PM My good friend.....I have just opened your PM...thank you. I had intended to leave it until I felt able to explain my personal circumstances properly...I owe you a large apology for taking so long. I will pm tomorrow at some point ....I value your friendship and kindness very much.....A. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 17 Jun 12 - 09:07 PM Thank you, Akenaton, for your kind words.....Love, has no political party....just participants! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 17 Jun 12 - 09:31 PM Hate certainly has found a home in the Republican Party... They hate the working man... They hate teachers... They hate science... They hate black people... They hate women... They hate gays... Now Ake, LH and GfinS can continue on with their little Woodstock love fest... BTW, 6 words: "And then they came for me"... Ya'll are blinder than the blindest of the blind... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 17 Jun 12 - 11:22 PM Bobbins: "Hate certainly has found a home in the Republican Party... They hate the working man... They hate teachers... They hate science... They hate black people... They hate women... They hate gays..." Don't you just hate those Republicans?????? GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Sawzaw Date: 18 Jun 12 - 09:11 AM Hate Hate Hate. That is all Bobert thinks about. He projects this hatred onto others that he hates. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 18 Jun 12 - 10:23 AM No, GfinS... I don't hate anyone... I do, however, hate their policies, their lies, their corruption, their cheating, etc., etc... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Sawzaw Date: 18 Jun 12 - 10:40 AM Does Bobert hate Democrats' policies, their lies, their corruption, their cheating, etc., etc.. Or is it a one way street for Bobert? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,999 Date: 18 Jun 12 - 10:41 AM Jesus Christ, Mary and Joseph. Some of you folks gotta learn to speak your minds. Hate? You are fucking right I hate some people. I would like to see half your damned congress put in jail until they face trial. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,999 Date: 18 Jun 12 - 10:41 AM On second thought, forget the trial. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 18 Jun 12 - 10:48 AM Don't be like that, brucie... Hate the sin, not the sinner... Hating people ain't good for yer tummy or soul... Yeah, 1/2 of Congress needs to be on trial but the problem is that the they have re-written laws that allow them to cheat Americans and cheat their way into office... But leave the people hating to the people-hating side... That ain't us... Remember what Jesus said... "Shake the dust off your robe"... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,999 Date: 18 Jun 12 - 11:01 AM Sorry, Bobert. I feel nothing BUT hatred for politicians who send kids to war, rape this world, keep people poor. I'd like to see then in jail because execution by axe is too damned good for 'em. I feel the same about Wall Street, multinationals and banks. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 18 Jun 12 - 11:18 AM I'd like to see them in jail, too... We agree on that... But, like I said, no matter how hateful their behavior is it is the behavior that we hate... But, yes... By all means. throw them in jail... But their big donors/masters in there with them... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,999 Date: 18 Jun 12 - 11:22 AM I ain't suggesting that you should hate them, Bobert. Just saying that I do. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 18 Jun 12 - 12:36 PM Well, I *am* suggesting that you don't hate them, brucie, but I come from the Martin Luther King School of Non-violence... Just they stuff we had preached into us in the 60s in the Movement... Not everyone bought into it... I did... I kinda of think that if someone's behavior is so evil that I can hate that person then I give that person power that is not earned... But that's me... Lotta my Movement allies in the 60's didn't see it that way... I'm okay with that but it won't stop me from trying to get others to see it as Dr. King did... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Sawzaw Date: 19 Jun 12 - 09:55 AM "I feel nothing BUT hatred for politicians who send kids to war" Obama: "This is not a war of choice. This is a war of necessity. Those who attacked America on 9/11 are plotting to do so again. If left unchecked, the Taliban insurgency will mean an even larger safe haven from which Al Qaeda would plot to kill more Americans." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Songwronger Date: 19 Jun 12 - 06:59 PM Who changed the title of my thread? Added "prediction only." I've been locked out the past couple of visits here. Changed the thread, locked me out. Too much bullshit to respond to. Firth starts the shoveling with some ignorance of world affairs. This is for him: Deadly Drone Strike on Muslims in the Southern Philippines Early last month, Tausug villagers on the Southern Philippine island of Jolo heard a buzzing sound not heard before. It is a sound familiar to the people of Waziristan who live along Pakistan's border with Afghanistan, where the United States fights the Taliban. It was the dreaded drone, which arrives from distant and unknown destinations to cause death and destruction. Within minutes, 15 people lay dead and a community plunged into despair, fear and mourning. The U.S. drone strike, targeting accused leaders in the Abu Sayyaf and Jemaah Islamiyah organisations, marked the first time the weapon has been used in Southeast Asia. The drone has so far been used against Muslim groups and the Tausug are the latest on the list. Just as in Pakistan and other theatres of the "war on terror", the strike has provoked controversy, with a Filipino lawmaker condemning the attack as a violation of national sovereignty. This controversy could increase with the recent American announcement that it plans to boost its drone fleet in the Philippines by 30 per cent. The U.S. already has hundreds of troops stationed on Jolo Island, but until now, the Americans have maintained a non-combat "advisory" role. The expansion of U.S.' drone war has the potential to further enflame a volatile conflict involving the southern Muslim areas and Manila, which has killed around 120,000 people over the past four decades. To understand what is happening in the Philippines and the U.S.' role in the conflict, we need to look at the Tausug, among the most populous and dominant of the 13 groups of Muslims in the South Philippines known as "Moro", a pejorative name given by Spanish colonisers centuries ago.... http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2012/03/05-drones-philippines-ahmed And so on. Anyway, Everyone Fucking Hates Obama. The Nobel Peace Prize winning mass murderer. He will be replaced by his corporate twin Romney unless the vote can be rigged. The Obamanoids will immediately go to work to "win back" the white house. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Ebbie Date: 19 Jun 12 - 07:36 PM Personally, I am glad for whoever added 'prediction only' to the title. We do NOT have a President Romney. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 19 Jun 12 - 07:48 PM ""It was the dreaded drone, which arrives from distant and unknown destinations to cause death and destruction."" You cannot arrive from a destination. It is a place to which you go, and at which you arrive. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 19 Jun 12 - 08:41 PM Seems that the Obama haters can't stick to any topic... You could start almost any thread involving politics and it always comes down to attacks that have nothing to do with the topic... Didn't I start a "clearing house" thread for the haters to carry on their little Klan rallies??? Prediction: Citizen Coward's United will steal democracy again... Just like in 2000... Who paid for the goons who intimidated poll workers trying to recount... Who stopped the recount just hours before Gore would have more than likely passed Bush in votes??? Losers: The American people... Dupes... Vote against their own interests and the interests of the country... Dupe losers... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Sawzaw Date: 19 Jun 12 - 09:20 PM Nobel Peace Prize winner Obama's Kill Lists AKA Dronegate: What is wrong with the President sitting in a room, looking at lists and portraits of people -- a Somali man, a seventeen-year-old girl, an American citizen -- and deciding whom to kill? That, according to long and troubling articles in both the Times and Newsweek, is a job Barack Obama has assigned himself. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 19 Jun 12 - 09:53 PM Drones??? Yup, just send in our kids to get shot the heck up and sent home in boxes... That's the American way... (((((((((((((((((((((((((spit)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) No, quit waring... It can be done... The military industrialists made a joke of the Department of Peace because they depend on their share of our GNP... Ike was right... Drones are tactics... Not strategies... War college teaches that kinda stuff... It's like when the long bow was developed... Should it have not been used because it gave the folks who had them an advantage??? The weapons aren't the "gates"... The weapons aren't the problem... The wars are... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 20 Jun 12 - 01:03 AM Bobbins: "Ike was right..." "Technology will never replace the spirit of a fighting man." Dwight D. Eisenhower GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: DougR Date: 20 Jun 12 - 04:19 PM It's nice to know that some things never change. DougR |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: pdq Date: 20 Jun 12 - 04:57 PM Nice to see DougR post again. He's Mudcat's Official Gentleman. Must be playing with the computer because it's too hot in Phoenix to go outside. 112o F in Phoenix today, 114o F tomorrow. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 20 Jun 12 - 05:24 PM Hey, Dougie!!! Long time, no hear... You okay??? You need to spend more time here and teach the current crop of righties how to treat people... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Greg F. Date: 20 Jun 12 - 05:42 PM He's Mudcat's Official Gentleman. If the definition of a gentleman is someone that swallows and propogates all the sh*t that Rush Limbaugh, Faux News, and the TeaPublican propagandists vomit forth, that is. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 20 Jun 12 - 06:38 PM I believe a gentleman would not need to be told how to think or behave. Those are merely conscription invitations. ...in other words, join us other rats at the stern of the Titanic! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Don Firth Date: 20 Jun 12 - 08:34 PM I may not agree with Doug R.'s political viewpoints, but he has NEVER been personally offensive or deliverately insulting to anyone. William F. Buckley was a strong conservative, but he, like Doug, was a gentleman. I used to read him, even when I didn't agree with what he said. Had he called people "loony liberals" or "brain-washed morons," or used some of the childish and offensive verbiage that some of the more recent crop of Right Wingers infesting Mudcat do regularly(especially the ones who won't even fess up to being as Right Wing as their posts scream they are), I would not have bothered to read him at all. A lesson there, guys! Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 21 Jun 12 - 01:43 AM Well, Don, I use all sorts of language on here, good bad, vulgar..even throw in some typos, for all those who read 'typonese'....and most the time, you DON'T agree with me on certain issues...but the difference is, I'm NOT a 'right winger'..(even though to you guys EVERYTHING is to the 'right')...BUT, I have a well established track record of being accurate...even before the 'news' breaks about it..SO, does that count?? Shit, I'll even talk to you guys!..How polite can a guy get????? GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: akenaton Date: 21 Jun 12 - 02:56 AM Bob.....I'm really surprised that you feel able to support "drone warfare". We are not "at war" with Pakistan. Does morality not come into this issue? If we do not feel part of the pain that accompanies "war"....then it shall never cease. Like the tactics used in Vietnam, this will prove to be addictive, and make final defeat inevitable. It is of course, simply a sophisticated form of terrorism. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Amos Date: 21 Jun 12 - 02:26 PM It is not wise to hate your enemies, but it is wise to disable them from harming you before you forgive them. It is even wiser not to have enemies, and we have (we being the United States and its CIA network) done an awful lot of dedicated enemy-sowing over the decades since Bill Donovan's days. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Greg F. Date: 21 Jun 12 - 03:47 PM I may not agree with Doug R.'s political viewpoints, but he has NEVER been personally offensive or deliverately insulting to anyone Your memory is faulty, review his history of postings - and Hitler loved and was nice to dogs. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 21 Jun 12 - 08:28 PM Yo, Ake... A C-5A full of dead 20 year old kids or a drone... You pick... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 21 Jun 12 - 11:51 PM All those in favor of drones because it takes out the enemies, raise your hands. All those in favor of napalm because it takes out the enemies, raise your hands. All in favor of another way, raise yours. GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: akenaton Date: 22 Jun 12 - 03:20 AM Unfair to throw that at me Bob, we all know there are other ways to co-exist. I dont differentiate between a houseful of minced Pakistani children, or dead US/UK soldiers. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 22 Jun 12 - 06:11 AM Bobert: "A C-5A full of dead 20 year old kids or a drone..." Maybe neither should be there. GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 22 Jun 12 - 07:01 PM Well, yeah, GfinS... I've said that over and over and over and over... Might of fact, the very first thread I stared here in the Mudpit was about Dennis Kucinich's legislation to create a Department of Peace... That was before Iraq... My problem is with folks who have 19th century ideas about how war is conducted... They have watched too many old war movies of thousands of people charging at another group of thousands of people and lots of people dieing... Like Antietam, Gettysburg or Normandy... If we ***have*** to fight then I believe that fighting smarter is smarter than fighting harder... I have not hear one single logical argument about the use of drones over waves of people in battle... Not one... Yes, war sucks... What does that have to do with it??? B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Jun 12 - 08:42 PM We don't ***have*** to fight (on other people's lands). The only true enemy we have is right here at home. I'd be opposed to these foreign so-called "pre-emptive" wars regardless of whether we were fighting them with swords, bayonets, jet planes, drones or any other method that's been tried so far. The USA and UK governments pretend to be engaging in "defence" when they launch their wars of choice in the Middle East. That's not true. They are engaging in attack...outright pre-planned aggression, planned some considerable time before the first shots were fired, planned BEFORE 911....invasion of other people's lands...forcible regime change of other nations...strictly for the sake of USA and UK imperial objectives. *** But...The thing that troubles me about using drones and similar automated devices for either war or internal security is this: you can't talk to a drone. You can't negotiate with it. You can't reason with it. You can't surrender to it or even discuss anything with it. It isn't human. It has no empathy, compassion or moral sense, anymore than a bullet does. It has no pity. It doesn't even know what it's doing. It exists only to kill and it has no conscience. There is no hope of any mercy or any understanding in a machine. Get that? Do you really want the equivalent of Terminator II movie hardware enforcing "order" in the world you live in? How would you feel if a flying military drone had you in its crosshairs, maybe by mistake even!, and there was not a soul in the world you could negotiate with about the situation, Bobert? Most soldiers are capable of developing some respect for their human adversaries, because they too are human. Machines aren't. When you remove the human moral sense from the equation, you have essentially removed all hope from the equation as far as I can see. Welcome to the end of life and liberty as we once knew it. There have been some famous prophetic books written in the 20th century about totalitarian regimes that would do stuff like this. I think you know the ones I mean. They'd rather use a machine to kill you, because it ALWAYS obeys the order, no matter what, no matter how insane the order, and it "kills without pain like a dog on a chain". People just aren't that dependable. Sometimes they will refuse to obey a criminal order from a totalitarian master. Another point. If the drafted sons and daughters of a public have to serve and die in a war...then it's much harder to get that public onside to support a dishonest and criminal war effort. If you can do it with automated machines and hired mercenaries instead, which is more and more what's happening now on the part of the USA, you have effectively isolated most of the American public from the direct results of war.......thus getting their tacit consent. They'll put up with 500,000 nameless Iraqis or Afghans or Iranians invisibly dying, because it's not happening within their own family or community...but they'd never put up with 20,000 of their own sons and fathers and daughters dying over there! See? Clever, isn't it? They've been really busy lately privatizing and automating their wars, because that's the easiest way to stifle a strong domestic antiwar movement which was what really brought an end finally to the Vietnam War. Of course...we had a more or less free press then too. They hadn't been "embedded" yet. There's only a few tattered shreds left of any free press around now...on mainstream media. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 22 Jun 12 - 09:58 PM Little Hawk: "Most soldiers are capable of developing some respect for their human adversaries, because they too are human. Machines aren't. When you remove the human moral sense from the equation, you have essentially removed all hope from the equation as far as I can see. Welcome to the end of life and liberty as we once knew it." When they use the argument, just as you framed it, and others argue in favor of weapons that are 'safe' to the aggressor, what separates that argument for machines, and chemical or biologicals? The first conflict to win, is in the hearts and minds of the people....NOT to an ideology or partisan way of thinking, but the recognition that we are all humans, and therefore ONE, that is before we turn over our thought processes to the thoughts and wishes of someone else....and why some are in favor of drones, chemicals, newer faster death tools, is because some have allowed others to do their programming into them....and therefore killing, as Little Hawk says, "Most soldiers are capable of developing some respect for their human adversaries, because they too are human."....The more people lose their respect for other humans, the more war seems like a plausible tool to achieve your goals. A truly defensive war may be a bit different...but we haven't had one of those in a long time...and now, people are thinking they are going to have to be defensive, toward our own government....ANY CLUES ANYONE???? Somebody has gotten 'out of hand'...and got you to cheer them on, for one stupid reason or another. Not look how far we've come, but how far we lost touch. Rethink all this...rethink what we say, and why...and who told you to nurture fear, loathing and discontent....the same people who control the need to make a working livelihood...SAME PEOPLE...the same people that get us to divert the dialogue AWAY from them, and onto us, each other. The 'people' don't want to wage war, not on each other, here or domestically...but then why are we afraid? Who told you to be afraid?? Who told you WHO to be afraid of?....when, if you were clear of any fear, or aggression toward your fellow humans because of peace in you, you probably won't project your hostilities into 'them'. The divisions and hate, fear and desperation, toward your fellow neighbor must NOT be entertained nor nurtured. Remember the saying, "Suppose they threw a war, and nobody came"...how much power, would those people have who needs you, and me, to encourage divisions, hostilities and war upon each other??....NONE!....Then we would not have to fear them....but then, they couldn't control us either!!! God Bless You Little Hawk! Highest Regards!!! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 22 Jun 12 - 10:26 PM Yeah, GfinS... I do... If yer in a war, use yer best weapons... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,999 Date: 22 Jun 12 - 10:39 PM Why is the USA in so many wars? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 23 Jun 12 - 09:04 AM The same reason Hertz, National and Avis cars have so many miles on them! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 23 Jun 12 - 10:52 PM ""You can't negotiate with it. You can't reason with it. You can't surrender to it or even discuss anything with it. It isn't human. It has no empathy, compassion or moral sense, anymore than a bullet does. It has no pity. It doesn't even know what it's doing. It exists only to kill and it has no conscience. There is no hope of any mercy or any understanding in a machine."" All very neatly expressed LH, and with the exception of just a couple of words it is a neat, complete, and succinct description of those terrorists which the drones are seeking out and killing. I don't like the idea any more than you do, but when you can't put boots on the ground a drone is often the only alternative. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Naemanson Date: 24 Jun 12 - 12:18 AM From my Guam thread: Throughout the trip one theme kept running through my mind. This is the America the Republicans would build! There is nothing for the people. When children beg in the streets, when there is no police presence controlling the flow of traffic or protecting the people, when an ambulances sit tied up in traffic with the lights flashing and siren blasting only to get edged out by someone who HAS to get ahead, when there are people wandering in and out of traffic trying to sell whatever they can, when businesses (including restaurants) have to hire security guards to manage customers and banks keep their doors locked by armed guards inside and out, when you can drive from beggars to shopping mall in five minutes assuming the traffic in front of the yacht club doesn't slow you down, then you will know that the Republicans have had their way. There is no oversight of cleanliness of restaurants, no control of traffic, the sidewalks are not safe and nobody does anything about it despite crowds of people using them, there is no system to move from one side of the city to the other quickly, i.e., no highways or other limited access transportation routes, and so much more. That is when you know that the conservatives are glorying in the running of the country into the ground. And some of you might say we already have it in the USA. I don't know. It's been a while since I was in an American city. Maybe we are already there. I know there are areas like this in most cities in the USA. I know that there are plenty of examples of what I've listed above to be found in New York, Washington, Los Angeles, etc. I think the difference is in the scope. In Manila it is everywhere. There were housing units (the name gives them way too much dignity for what they look like) that look like piles of broken boxes leaning over the filthy slime that fills the river flowing through the neighborhoods. You know the river is bad because you don't see any children playing in it. Or that might be because they are out begging in the streets. This is the America of Mitt Romney and his compatriots. (There is one exception to the comparison with America. The streets are dirty but there is no trash! Everywhere you look you see people with brooms keeping the litter under control. Too bad they cannot emigrate to the USA and teach us something about this.) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 24 Jun 12 - 08:04 AM ***********************Attention all Obama Haters*********************** *****Obama didn't start either of the two wars that he inherited***** ______________________________The End___________________________________ Ya'll seem to want to make this discussion about war and not weapons... Romney's position on Iran is 100 times more threatening than Obama's... His "cowboy" foreign policy attitudes (American exceptionalism) is reminiscent of George W... This is how wars get started folks... One side goes, "Woof, woof" and the other goes "Woof, woof" and then next thing ya' know women and children are getting bombed and CA-5s are landing at Dover Air Force Base with out dead kids... So, please... If you are for that then just say, "I love war"... I can respect that position... I hate war myself and think we should take a mere 5% of the Pentagon's budget and create a Department of Peace.... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,999 Date: 24 Jun 12 - 10:15 AM You won't care for drones all that much when you are the target. You have just advocated for total war, Bobert. Instead of sending American/Canadian/UK/French/etc kids, let's just send bombs instead. Smart bombs--drones: same thing. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 24 Jun 12 - 11:37 AM ""You won't care for drones all that much when you are the target."" Why would anybody want to target a seventy one year old folkie? As I understand it these drones are quite specifically targetted and we have only the hearsay evidence of unidentified and non accredited sources for any innocents killed. I've said many times that the proper sphere of action of any armed forces should be on the borders of their own country.....in an ideal world. We don't, apparently, live in that world, and when we are dealing with external threat from terrorists, it is probably better to lose machines rather than young men, wouldn't you say? These characters despise us for our squeamish attitude to killing. They regard it as our major weakness and exploit it ruthlessly and without a second thought for the innocence of their victims. The drones have made it possible for the first time to fight them without one hand tied behind our backs. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,999 Date: 24 Jun 12 - 01:27 PM Drones are not new. Whoever one's enemy is will procure the technology and return the favour. I don't know who would target a 71 year old folkie, but then I don't know who would bomb a bus full of kids, either. Terrorism is called that because it makes little sense and provides an enemy who does not want to negotiate. The US is once again being the 'cops of the world' and other than themselves just who was consulted? The use of drones requires law, and I don't mean the law of the jungle. The things have no regulation with regard to use within the USA. That's their business, but their incursion into other countries is an act of war. But since no war was declared, they're good for assassination. I may have a degree of 'trust' for Obama, but imagine those things in the hands of Republicans? They're in the safer of two hands now. Later . . . |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Jack the Sailor Date: 24 Jun 12 - 02:22 PM 999. I am confused as to where Bobert advocated total war. IMHO Iraq wasn't "total war." WWII between US and Japan and Russia and Germany came closest. On the whole, I am against the targeted assassination program whether it be the drones or the helicopter launched ground attacks or by any means. But things like using drones or busting down Bin Laden's door are the least of a whole bunch of evils. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Don Firth Date: 24 Jun 12 - 03:35 PM Just a side note here. There is nothing intrinsically evil about the concept of drones or remote controlled aircraft. The evil is in the way they can be used. I mention in another thread that, when I worked for a year as a traffic reporter on a local radio station ("drive time" traffic reports during rush hours), having a few drones with controllable cameras flying over the freeways and bridges would make the accuracy of such reports a whole lot better. A drone (remote controlled aircraft) is a tool. It's how you use that tool that makes the difference. Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 24 Jun 12 - 04:18 PM Don Firth: "....The evil is in the way they can be used...." Don, I agree....and I'd like to add one thing, also 'why?'...Defense? ..acquisition?...both?....and add terrorism?...all three?? Surely, if any or all can be avoided, then by all means avoid. Perhaps, not putting your country in the position of having to use them might be a 'novel' idea. GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,999 Date: 24 Jun 12 - 04:37 PM Jack, Bobert and I are friends. My remark about total war--which I do not at all think he supports--came about thus: 1) It seems to be ok to use drones and other unmanned equipment because it keeps kids safer--well, American kids safer 2) Protocols of warfare go out the window because there are no protocols of warfare when it comes to drones 3) There need no longer be a war declared to invade another country, and drones killing someone in another country means there is a war and the US can expect retaliation It begins to look pretty total to me. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: akenaton Date: 24 Jun 12 - 05:43 PM Totally agree Bruce... add to that the idea that we can make war on other nations with no risk to ourselves and the future begins to look pretty murky, given our history of exploitation and outright robbery. As I said earlier if we want to end war, we must be aware of the pain, death and destruction which war brings. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Jack the Sailor Date: 24 Jun 12 - 06:14 PM "Why would anybody want to target a seventy one year old folkie?" I think that would depend on the time of the month. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,999 Date: 24 Jun 12 - 06:26 PM LOL, Jack. Hi, Ake. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 24 Jun 12 - 08:19 PM Exactly, Don... No, I don't pick conventional 19th century war over drones, brucie... Given my druthers, I pick neither... Neither the Afghanistan or Iraq wars were justified... Had we treated 9/11, when we had 90% of the world behind US, we could have treated this as a crime and saved US one heck of cost in terms of lives, treasury and stature... I'm sick of "American exceptionalism" if it means more wars... That's all the right talks about... Screw it... No more wars... Period... No one is safer as the result of a war... Not no one... Just say no!!! We have to set the bar... We do that and others will follow... We have been at war with someone almost all my life... Who benefits??? No one... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,999 Date: 24 Jun 12 - 11:07 PM Drones are tools of warfare when they are used as such. So I am NOT understanding what you're saying. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST Date: 25 Jun 12 - 02:13 AM SHOCKING BREAKING NEWS!!!!! Don Firth, Bobert and GfS actually agree on something....that is if Bobert doesn't change his mind again! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Songwronger Date: 25 Jun 12 - 07:18 PM One of the earlier posts paints an ugly picture and then says, "This is the America of Mitt Romney and his compatriots." I don't understand this. Obama's the one who promised austerity. Austerity we're now seeing. Sure Mitt Romney will cut government services and all that, but it'll just be a continuation of the Bush/Obama policies. America, like Europe, is in the clutches of a vicious, fascistic banking cabal. Romney will just continue to serve that cabal, and America will continue on its downward spiral. Let's be sure to give Obama his share of credit for the mess we're in. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 25 Jun 12 - 08:11 PM What I am saying, brucie, is that you have two choices ***if*** you are in a war: 1. Fight it smart, i.e. drones... 2. Fight it stupid, i.e. 19th century tactics and lots of yer kids in boxes... The question as to whether or not we should be in wars I believe I have answered for the last for the last 8 to 10 years I have been here... I was one of the first, if not the first, to say no, no, no here in Mudburg to Iraq before others joined in... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 26 Jun 12 - 01:01 AM So, with all that man, that weird creature with opposed thumbs, and the ability to communicate thoughts with other humans, and create and express all sorts of amazing things, we have finally arrived at the top of the food chain....and can't wait to build a better killing machine! Go Team go!!! Amazing! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,999 Date: 26 Jun 12 - 12:39 PM That I can understand, Bobert. I'm a bit slow, but eventually I catch up. Thank you. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 26 Jun 12 - 12:47 PM Bobert: "I was one of the first, if not the first, to say no, no, no here in Mudburg to Iraq before others joined in..." Well great!...Keep saying it!...no matter what party decides to invade any country that has not attacked us!!! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 26 Jun 12 - 01:36 PM Yup... And that goes for Syria and Iran... The woofing that Mitt Romney has done on both indicate that if he were president he would be just like George W. Bush and take US into one war after another after another... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 26 Jun 12 - 02:40 PM The U.S. has been getting into useless wars ever since the Spanish-American. That guy that ran with Palin was even worse, good thing he was defeated. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Bobert Date: 26 Jun 12 - 04:10 PM Yes, John McCain has been going around saying that Obama doesn't believe in "American exceptionalism"... In other words: wars, wars and more wars... John McCain has become a very bitter old man... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: akenaton Date: 26 Jun 12 - 05:43 PM "And that goes for Syria and Iran..." Oh?....and what about lybia then? I distinctly remember Hillary the Hawk and a slightly less gung=ho president Obama cheerleading the Brits and French in the idiotic removal of Col Gaddafi. Todays Times says that the place is now ruled by warring militias and Al Quaeda are already setting up Jihadi training camps, just as Gadaffi warned would happen......Bloody fools. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 26 Jun 12 - 06:13 PM But Akenaton!!!.....When the Democrats do the same thing as the Republicans, its O-K-A-A-A-Y...ask any knucklehead in here! regards, Ake, GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 27 Jun 12 - 12:59 PM ""Let's be sure to give Obama his share of credit for the mess we're in."" Just for once I find myself in total agreement with Songwronger. Let's give Obama his share of the credit for a lunatic system which allows 40% of its policy making body to override the 60% majority. Obama's share of responsibility for that 0%. Prior to the Republicans achieving that 40%: Millions of US citizens with access, for the first time, to proper medical care Obama's share of responsibility for that 100%. US troops out of Iraq. Obama's share of responsibility for that 100%. That Republican minority then acts as one to prevent any Obama initiative succeeding. Obama's share of responsibility for that 0%. Guantanamo still active. Obama's responsibility for that 0%. Afghanistan still taking American and British lives. Obama's share of the responsibility for that 0%. The US economic situation beginning to improve. Well, it looks as though the lad is on the right side of the balance sheet, to everyone except the republicans, who would have preferred to have stopped the things he did manage to do, rather than having to settle for damaging them. If the Republicans are an example of American love of country, GOD HELP AMERICA! Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Stringsinger Date: 27 Jun 12 - 01:03 PM Avanti Popalo, Beware of Benito Mitt-soulini and his corporatzione Americana. Apparently many Americans have not learned the lessons of history. Corporations+government control by corporations=Fascism |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Jack the Sailor Date: 27 Jun 12 - 01:12 PM "Al Quaeda are already setting up Jihadi training camps, just as Gadaffi warned would happen." - akenaton Didn't Gadaffi also warn about "rivers of blood?" So we were to take Gadaffi seriously about one statement but on NOT act on the other? I think akenaton has hit upon THE best justification for the actions taken in Lybia. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Stringsinger Date: 27 Jun 12 - 01:25 PM War is OK if the US is doing it or sponsoring reactions in such places as Libya. It's a big business and arms dealing is as American as apple pie. Sell to both sides while we hold the coat. This was done in Cuba so why not in Libya? We see how Libya is turning out as well as Syria. I predict that a Romney Robot will put the US at war with Iran. Not Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. "Wouldn't be prudent." Wag the dog. Scapegoat needed to divert attention from real issues by Americans. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: President Romney (prediction only) From: Naemanson Date: 01 Jul 12 - 04:27 AM Songwronger, There is nothing wrong with austerity. It is essential if we are going to tame the economy. There is a problem with irresponsible austerity that only targets the programs one side doesn't like. My point was that the conservative side claims to want smaller government. They seem to think that private industry will fill the role when a need is uncovered. As has been borne out by past actions there needs to be a SUBSTANTIAL profit before they'll do anything. I believe businesses set a profit goal and will not undertake anything that does not meet or exceed that goal. The needs in Manila are not met by government nor by private industry. |
