Info/discussion: Bob Davenport

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 26 May 17 - 01:16 PM

nufsed- no hard feelings but really your last posts have been difficult to follow- gan canny jim

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 May 17 - 10:48 PM

Jim,my post of 410 pm was an over reaction, lets agree to dis agree

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 May 17 - 04:45 PM

none of which alters my opinions of Bob or Jim B as performers

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 May 17 - 04:10 PM

" also there are so many quotations in your post that I cannot work out who is addressing who, so best leave it for now, we won't agree on this & there is now a serious risk of Mr Carroll getting involved so goodnight and joy be wi' ye all..."
What a load of nonsense.

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 25 May 17 - 01:24 PM

There's a lot of hearsay involved here, not to mention very long memories!
Such extremes of behavior as mentioned by Sandman are not what is involved here... I wouldn't like anyone to throw a chair at me at Elsie's either but really.....
   also there are so many quotations in your post that I cannot work out who is addressing who, so best leave it for now, we won't agree on this & there is now a serious risk of Mr Carroll getting involved so goodnight and joy be wi' ye all....

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 May 17 - 11:42 PM

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman - PM
Date: 22 May 17 - 11:05 AM

Disruption was caused by Dominic Behan because he was drunk it was nothing to do with Carthy earning or not earning respect.
in my experience particularly gigs on new years eve in pubs this is the case, some drunken idiot gets up and thinks he can do better, it has nothing to do with the performer earning respect, but more to do with drunken idiots having had too much alcohol.
here is another quote
Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: GUEST,Chris Lamb - PM
Date: 15 May 17 - 07:31 AM

I wasn't present at the incident mentioned by Jim Carroll, but I have heard Bob sing many times over the past 50 years, and there have been a few occasions when he has been audibly chatting while other singers were introducing their songs. I have huge admiration for his singing, but his occasional lack of respect for fellow performers does diminish him as an individual in my eyes."end of quote
I have no idea why Bob deliberately disrupts other performers introductions, but I cannot agree that it is an ok thing to do because of the argument you put forward thatrespect has to be earned.
How can respect be earned if the performer feels there is hostility or a disruptive influemnce in the audience before he /she has started

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 May 17 - 11:05 AM

Disruption was caused by Dominic Behan because he was drunk it was nothing to do with Carthy earning or not earning respect.
in my experience particularly gigs on new years eve in pubs this is the case, some drunken idiot gets up and thinks he can do better, it has nothing to do with the performer earning respect, but more to do with drunken idiots having had too much alcohol.
here is another quote
Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: GUEST,Chris Lamb - PM
Date: 15 May 17 - 07:31 AM

I wasn't present at the incident mentioned by Jim Carroll, but I have heard Bob sing many times over the past 50 years, and there have been a few occasions when he has been audibly chatting while other singers were introducing their songs. I have huge admiration for his singing, but his occasional lack of respect for fellow performers does diminish him as an individual in my eyes.
I have no idea why Bob deliberately disrupts other performers introductions, but I cannot agree that it is an ok thing to do because of the argument you put forward thatrespect has to be earned.
How can respect be earned if the performer feels there is hostility or a disruptive influemnce in the audience before he /she has started

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 May 17 - 10:47 AM

Respect is necessary, that is not always the same as total silence but respect is not disrupting somebody elses performance.
Deliberate disruption of someone else performance is disrespectful,folk clubs have rules which are about respect for performers, working mens clubs are different.
To argue that respect has to be earned is a false argument because performers have to be given a chance to perform without disruption, Will Fly gave an example of how Carthys gig was disrupted.
Jim, you still havent answered how you would like it if it happened to you, next time your down at Elsies in a pub, how would you like it if I came in with 10 of people and we all started playing electronic music on a smart phone right next to you, while you were trying to sing "MOVING DAY".
Even in pub gigs there has to be a certain anmount of order.
RESPECT IS NECESSARY, imo for music to thrive, if some drunken fool comes up to you on new years eve and starts taking your accordion off you is that ok?

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: GUEST,Jim bainbridge
Date: 22 May 17 - 07:40 AM

I wouldn't act like Mr Carroll alleges but I can't really discuss something from years ago at which neither of us was present- it may or may not have been warranted.
   Performers need to earn respect as well. Bob may have a history in this context but he's quite capable of defending himself, so will leave it at that.
   By the way we had a session here yesterday which was very noisy but with singers of such quality and nous that it was one of the best I've been to- see Leitrim Singers Circle on facebook- silence is NOT necessary for the music to thrive.

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 May 17 - 09:55 AM

"I still maintain that respect has to be earned"
respect should be given to ALL performers rgardless, if you do not like them you do not have to applaud, that is something different, but you give everyone a chance
I do not like Vins views on abortion, but he has a right to sing songs on the subject, if i dont like it I dont have to applaud, I can leave quietly between songs or simply not aplaud the song, but i would not shout him down or talk loudly through his introductions.
I do believe Jim Carrolls version of the MT gig, for a number of reasons , you have my emailadress if you want to contact me i will give you my reasons privatelys

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 21 May 17 - 06:36 AM

Sandman, I can't really discuss an incident from many years ago when I wasn't present and nor were you.
I still maintain that respect has to be earned. So as you've heard only one side of this now legendary tale, there's no way either of us can judge this.
I do know that no-one in the 'revival' has more respect for genuine and unpretentious singers and musicians of any genre than Bob Davenport. He's always been on the edge of the 'revival' (hence quotes) but few have had a bigger influence.

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 20 May 17 - 10:41 PM

I am reminded of a visit to Bryce Canyon where a busload of self-obsessed German tourists descend on a hushed crowd of sightseers totally obvious to the sacred splendo(u)rs.

In my naivety I wouldn't have
believed it unless I'd seen it

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 May 17 - 02:42 PM

"I think we agree really, it's about respect BUT that needs to be earned..."jim bainbridge.
"For those not familiar with her, Therese is a lovely Irish language singer from the Aran Islands, and that night she was thoughtful enough to give short explanations of her songs for the benefit of us non-Irish-speakers.
Following the interval we could hear somebody two rows behind us speaking quite loudly while she was making her introductions, and after a while it became obvious that this was deliberate.
We asked the culprit to stop and was told in no uncertain terms that "I came to hear ******* singing, not ******* talking; I thought we'd got rid of all this **** back in the sixties." Jim Carroll
Jim Bainbridge, I reckon Therese, earned and deserved that respect, and that Bob was out of order.
I have listened to a lovely irish singer in my neighbourhood, Anya Meric
being a non irish speaker I have appreciated explanations about the songs

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 20 May 17 - 12:12 PM

Sandman- thanks for your concern and offer of support, but I have been in enough folk clubs & pubs to be able to handle a bit of noise. I agree of course that respect is due to any performer doing his/her best, but a reaction to poor performance or irrelevant/unnecessary intros (I've heard this in the form of a complete advance narrative of 'Matty Groves' or similar) this can produce a murmur progressing to serious noise.
Do you mean that any reaction to this is not allowed? -surely some kind of protest could be justified, although I certainly wouldn't be part of it, and its not what I'm saying.
   The real world is that you can't please everyone, and simply putting up with poor behavior FROM PERFORMERS especially in an 'entry charge' situation is hardly the way forward.
   We're a very tolerant crowd mainly, and that's to our credit, but there's a balance to be struck, and we need to be sensitive to our surroundings. There have been many instances of groups of folkies finding a nice old pub, taking it over and then getting annoyed when the locals chat in the background- that's different to the same crowd finding an empty room & doing the same thing- they'd have a case to ask new arrivals to 'show respect'
I think we agree really, it's about respect BUT that needs to be earned....

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: RTim
Date: 20 May 17 - 09:50 AM

Regarding The Sandman's piece about Bob Davenport and The Balladeers - it seems someone has read a history of The Fo'c'sle in Southampton and misunderstood exactly what John Paddy Brown said.

It seems the first time the club moved to the old Bay Tree pub - the guests that night were Bob Davenport and also The Balladeers - as two separate acts - but if you did not know that they seem to be together.
Bob is certainly better known as a Newcastle "Geordie" singer who often performed with The Rakes.

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 20 May 17 - 09:28 AM

We operate at different frequencies
I just can't (tho I've tryed)
Wrap my brain around all the
Fish-n-chips on Mudcat

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: Will Fly
Date: 20 May 17 - 05:39 AM

I'm sure you will, Al - it's all just another example of the dichotomy between what an artist does and what he is. Sometimes the two are reconcilable - sometimes not...

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 May 17 - 05:28 AM

'And I still have no time for anything by Dominic Behan.'

never met the guy - but i've sang his songs and got money for it. so I'll reserve judgement on him. if i meet him in the afterlife - i'll owe him a couple of drinks - i suppose.

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: Will Fly
Date: 20 May 17 - 03:45 AM

There's a big difference between hearing about these rude incidents at second hand and actually being present on the occasion itself. The latter experience tends to stay with you for ever - and colours your opinion of the person(s) involved. I can recall one much worse than the much-related Bob Davenport story - and I was in the thick of it.

It occurred around 1969 or so at Clanfolk, the BBC Folk Club, which was held in those days at the Marquis of Clanricarde pub in Bayswater. I was running the club at the time and had booked Martin Carthy. Just as Martin had started his act, in walks a very drunken Dominic Behan, accompanied by what appeared to be two large Irish 'minders'. Behan walked to the front and began to sing rebel Irish songs, while the minders looked on, grinning. The audience was embarassed and appalled. Martin spoke in a friendly way to Behan, who pushed him so hard that Martin fell back against a chair and almost went right over.

At this point I went downstairs to the main bar and had a word with Danny, the very large Irish landlord, who came upstairs and cleared Behan and his pals out. Martin, who had behaved calmly and like a true gentleman, just murmured a word or two, shrugged the incident off and carried on like the pro he was and is. I met Martin many years later at one of his Christmas concerts at the Ropetackle in Shoreham-by-Sea and asked him if he recalled the incident at Clanfolk. "How could I forget it!" was his wry reply, and I could see it had stuck in both our minds for many, many years!

Behan's behaviour was totally out of order. I don't care what songs he'd written or what work he'd done - he behaved like a tosspot - and, yes, I know he was drunk. I was young and skinny and fairly naive in those days, and was unsure as to how to handle the situation. If it had happened now, I'd have scooted the little bugger out in double quick time, minders or no minders - age, bulk and 40 years in the ups and downs of the music world do give one a different perspective and attitude.

And I still have no time for anything by Dominic Behan.

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 20 May 17 - 02:12 AM

Groundhog Day: a situation in which a series of unwelcome or tedious events appear to be recurring in exactly the same way."

I apologise for my part in this lapse of manners.

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: GUEST,pauperback sill lol-ing
Date: 19 May 17 - 11:01 PM

This thread has become pointless.

bring back MGM, AT LEAST HE HAS STYLE.

Onononononono

handbags has 2B

☛ to ☚

As Tommy Handley's old signature tune used to aver, as the real oldies among us will remember ~~ 

"Oh, it's useless to complain!"

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 May 17 - 12:59 PM

I am talking about a principle here, that every performer in folk clubs or folk concerts should be accorded respect, it does not matter who the performer is or who the interrupter is.
none of which alters my opinion of Bob or Jim Bainbridge as a performer

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 May 17 - 12:40 PM

is Bob an HP source singer or more in the a Daddies genre?

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 May 17 - 12:37 PM

"Subject: RE: Bob Davenport
From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 03:03 AM

Not to put a too heavy a hand on all these paeans of praise
We were in the Musical Traditions Club in central London a dozen years ago, where the guests were two superb Irish women singers, Roisin White and Therese Mullan.
For those not familiar with her, Therese is a lovely Irish language singer from the Aran Islands, and that night she was thoughtful enough to give short explanations of her songs for the benefit of us non-Irish-speakers.
Following the interval we could hear somebody two rows behind us speaking quite loudly while she was making her introductions, and after a while it became obvious that this was deliberate.
We asked the culprit to stop and was told in no uncertain terms that "I came to hear ******* singing, not ******* talking; I thought we'd got rid of all this **** back in the sixties."
We weren't the only ones who didn't appreciate Bob's input into the evening as we were thanked later by several others for having silenced him.
Sorry.
Bad hair night maybe?
Jim Carroll"
so the disruption occurred in 2000.
then we have
"Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: GUEST,Chris Lamb - PM
Date: 15 May 17 - 07:31 AM

I wasn't present at the incident mentioned by Jim Carroll, but I have heard Bob sing many times over the past 50 years, and there have been a few occasions when he has been audibly chatting while other singers were introducing their songs. I have huge admiration for his singing, but his occasional lack of respect for fellow performers does diminish him as an individual in my eyes."
Jim Bainbridge, quote below
"I have heard some VERY eminent 'source' singers talking during songs & even more in music sets, and that's not a crime, unless we want our music of the people delivered and received in silence"
I expect the following in folk clubs and concerts, respect to be shown to all performers and that includes you, Jim, how would you like it if somebody from the audience interrupted you with "I came to hear ******* singing, not ******* talking; I thought we'd got rid of all this **** back in the sixties."
If I was organising a folk club or concert event and someone did that to you. Jim Bainbridge, as an organiser I would ask the interrupter to be quiet.
I do live in the real world, and I like to see respect shown to performers in all situations but I expect it particularly in folk clubs and concerts.
Jim, if that is what you want then you and Bob should have a go singing in working mens clubs, that is where that sort of behaviour is comsidered acceptable.

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 19 May 17 - 12:12 PM

Sandman, what is being discussed seems to concern an event at MT club many years ago at which neither of us were present I think?
'Apparently' really isn't good enough, is it?   he said... she said
I am well aware that Bob can be an intolerant listener but I've been there when singers & musicians have thoroughly deserved such treatment, more often for condescension and pseudo academic introductions to songs & music sets than for poor singing/playing. I wouldn't have the nerve but have often felt sympathy in an audience for what he said/did.
I have heard some VERY eminent 'source' singers talking during songs & even more in music sets, and that's not a crime, unless we want our music of the people delivered and received in silence?
Apart from this, I agree with all you say about rules, but I really don't think you are living in the real world!
This is not knocking folk clubs and sessions, I'm very grateful to the platform they continue to give me!

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 May 17 - 08:29 AM

i dunno - you're making him sound as rhough he walks in like a one man band. interrupting and disrupting -banging a gong.

i admit, i'm not a traddy. i don't know him like you lot seem to do.

however i do feel you're being a bit unfair to the bloke i have seen and witnessed.

perhaps the medication was kicking in, on the few occasions i saw him.

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 May 17 - 06:22 AM

"The closed 'folk' session has always struck me as anathema to the social aspect of the music of the 'folk'. I accept that folk clubs/sessions are entitled to apply rules, especially if an entry fee is involved but if it goes as far as excluding awkward listeners, we have surely failed in our purpose."
I do not agree
Perhaps your definition of the purpose is different from mine.
Apparantly Bob wasnt just an awakward listener, he apparantly was not listening but talking loudly and interrupting a performer at the MT club, THAT IN MY OPINION IS NOT ACCEPTABLE,the audience paid money to hear certain performers sing their songs and present them, they did not pay to hear Bob interrupt and talk loudly.
"The closed 'folk' session has always struck me as anathema to the social aspect of the music of the 'folk'."
Folk clubs are not closed sessions they are open to anybody providing they show a bit of respect to performers and to other members of the audience., they represent a social aspect of the music, to suggest that the only way you can have a social aspect to the music is in an uncontrolled rowdy or noisy pub is a fallacy
the social aspect folk music has been presented in my experience in places where no alcohol is available, the social aspect of folk music does not necessarily have to have alcohol for people to get together and be sociable and enjoy the music at the same time.
Even pubs have certain boundaries of respect, the landlord/landlady/publican has the right to eject anyone that he/she wants to, it is his/her discretion as to what behavoiur he/she finds acceptable,his interpretation, some publicans will not accept bad language,some will, etc etc. there are even acceptable boundaries of behaviour in music sessions in pubs. .
RTIM the quote was from wiki if you dont like it make with wiki contact and alter it.
Pauperman, can you give examples of my unacceptable behaviour in folk clubs, or otherwise retract your smear, that is what is being discussed unacceptable behaviour in folk clubs,please give examples of my unacceptable behaviour in folk clubs or apologise.

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 19 May 17 - 05:47 AM

Sandman- Bob took me to the Blaxhall Ship , the Golden Key at Snape and the Swan at Wurlingworth on many occasions when he lived at Bramford, so don't tell me what it was like there at the time.
I was trying to give a rational explanation of why Bob is as he is.

You know as well as I do that 'order' is desirable but not always realistic in a pub session and some of the best sessions I have attended have been in noisy sessions in public bars.

The closed 'folk' session has always struck me as anathema to the social aspect of the music of the 'folk'. I accept that folk clubs/sessions are entitled to apply rules, especially if an entry fee is involved but if it goes as far as excluding awkward listeners, we have surely failed in our purpose.

This is the world as it is, not as we'd like it & I've always enjoyed the challenge of a noisy pub, and Bob taught me that- not sure he'd accept an honour from EFDSS anyway...

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: RTim
Date: 18 May 17 - 07:39 PM

The Sandman posted - "Renowned English folksinger Bob Davenport has been a leading voice in the revival since appearing with his Balladeers in the early '60s at Southampton's famed Fo'c'sle Folk Club."

I knew the Balladeers from The Fo'c'sle - ie. Dave Williams, Vic Wilton and Pete Mills, with Mike Sadler (aka Gutta Percha) as occasional singer - However I never heard of Bob D. being part of the band!!!

I would like to see more details...........

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 18 May 17 - 06:54 PM

Lol, GSSandman's pointers
on 'acceptable behavio(u)r

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 May 17 - 08:16 AM

Bob Davenport wrote Down the long Road.
I have not come across any other of his songs, but since Al asked, if anyone knows of any other Davenport songs, let us all know.
   
none of which alters the fact that Folk Clubs have certain accepted rules about behaviour and that is why in my experience they are more enjoyable than working mens clubs, interrupting performers on stage seems to be accepted behaviour in working mens clubs., IT IS NOT imo ACCEPTABLE AT FOLK CLUBS OR FOLK FESTIVALS
I respect Bob as a performer.
However If ANYONE ever interrupts any event at which I am either singing or organising, I will stop Them.

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 17 May 17 - 07:15 PM

Well, as far as I know, Dick, he has written a song or two - and Carolyn Robson has recorded "Down the long road"...

Kitty

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 May 17 - 01:29 PM

okay Dick...why the change of name?
last time i heard you were GSS, weren't you?
you confuse me. i am old.

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 May 17 - 11:09 AM

Al go back and reread my posts, you are out of order, I have criticised his interruptions whilst acknowledging his long service,
His achievements WELL HERE ARE SOME, he was involved in the radio ballads, as was lou killen, cyril tawney and others.
   he has not written any songs, but he has been playing and singing in folk clubs since the early sixties, I do not think he has run any festivals but he has been involved in running folk clubs, he sang with the Rakes.
Renowned English folksinger Bob Davenport has been a leading voice in the revival since appearing with his Balladeers in the early '60s at Southampton's famed Fo'c'sle Folk Club. He spent the majority of his career with the Rakes, a quartet consisting of Paul Gross (fiddle), Michael Plunkett (fiddle and whistle), and Reg Hall (melodeon), with whom he spent 40 years. He has appeared on numerous compilations throughout his career, including Topic Records' excellent nautical compilation Blow the Man Down and the mining anthology The Iron Muse. He released Common Stone in 2005, a wonderful collection of traditional and contemporary folk songs with guests that include Richard & Linda Thompson, Norma Waterson, and Chumbawamba.

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 May 17 - 10:56 AM

I am Dick Miles, I suggested a lifetime award for his long service in the folk revival, mind You there are other people who deserve it as well JohnnyHandle Reg Hall, JohnTaylor 49 years running festivals and clubs,Alan Castle 49 years running Tenterden folk festival.

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 May 17 - 10:49 AM

i don't know who you are Sandman, but i've been hearing the name Bob Davenport spoken of with reverence since i was fifteen years old in 1964. reverence for his artistic vision, his musical and performing ability. his dedication to folk music.

I have heard not one word describing the scale of his achievement. The details of his many projects.

All i've heard is people bellyaching mostly about incidents they weren't present at. mostly by people who would lift the olympic medal for carping criticism, the cup winnners shield for begrudgery, and the lifetime achievement award for being a miserable bastard.

i'm sure Bob has many faults. We have heard about this particular fault ad nauseam.

now has anyone any knowledge of what his achievements?

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 May 17 - 09:47 AM

we are/were talking about performers in folk clubs being interrupted during the introduction of songs ON ONE OCCASION this happened at MT CLUB, so your post is no defence of Bobs behaviour at the MT club, in fact it illustrates that his behaviour is possibly pre meditated and deliberate which makes it worse.
However I do think Bob dersves an EFDSS gold medal for involvement in the uk folk revival.
Mike, IMO.the Kennedy incident is a red herring he was not singning ata folk club or introducing a song which is what happened to Roisin White, no performer should be interrupted in a boorish way by Bob Davenport or anyone else.

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: GUEST,Mike Yates
Date: 17 May 17 - 09:29 AM

Hi Sandman. Were you there? If not, then I can tell you that there were many people in the room, myself included, who were glad that Kennedy shut up!

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 May 17 - 08:18 AM

Mike, that is hardly relevant,Peter Kennedy was not singing in a folk club or trying to introduce a song in a Folk Club.
In fact it does not help Bobs case at all it shows that he does that kind of thing deliberately and possibly pre meditated, which imo makes his behaviour worse

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: GUEST,Mike Yates
Date: 17 May 17 - 04:42 AM

I was invited to an evening at C# House one night when Topic's "Voice of the People" series was first launched.Not really my sort of thing, but I went anyway. Peter Kennedy turned up unexpectedly and when Reg Hall, who was in change of the evening, mentioned Peter's name, Peter stood up and began talking at great length about what he had done over the years and why he (Kennedy)was such an important person. It went on for quite some time, but then a loud voice, talking to the person next to him, started drowing him out. I always felt that Bob Davenport's timing was impeccable!

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 May 17 - 10:29 PM

imo Bob and Reg both deserve to be recognised by the EFDSS with a gold medal.
John Taylor who has organised folk festivals for 49 years and a folk club for over 50 is another deserving case, a real unsung hero.
The only place in my experience where it is accepted that members of the audience interrupt performers is working mens clubs, I have no particular masochistic desire to play them.
I do on occasions play in pubs but I am very selective.
I like Folk clubs, and I like performers to be shown respect, interrupting performers and talking loudly through introductions is disrespectful and rude.

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 May 17 - 05:33 PM

There are rules in Folk clubs, which include not talking loudly through singers introductions, whether singers appear to be condescending to someone in the audience, it is not up to a member of the audience to start interrupting or to talk loudly through singers introductions, if Bob did that in any folk club or concert venue that I was organising,I would tell him to stop., if you or anyone else did, the same thing would apply
I like Bob as a performer and have respect for his involvement over the years.
your comment about East Anglian music is imo inaccurate, Wicketts Richardson kept order In the BLAXHALL SHIP.
My experience of East Anglian sessions in the 80s was one where respect was shown to traditional and singers and musicians.
Finally Folk Clubs are also social settings, to try and give the impression that noisy pubs are the only venues that are social settings imo is misleading.
Bob has done many paid gigs in folk clubs and knows the score if he prefers to not play in folk clubs why does he do it,why doesnt he play in pubs [where those rules do not apply] exclusively.

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 16 May 17 - 03:29 PM

Glad that Big Al and some others appreciate Bob's contribution to the music over about SIXTY years, and as 'guest' pointed out, he's still doing it so less of the past tense please.
Bob and the Rakes were regular folk club guests in the sixties but his preference was always for the informal settings provided by older well-established community pubs where music was still part of the social scene,
Irish music in London (played by Irish people), East Anglian music of a similar ilk or an old-style London singsong was and is what he likes best - ie music in its social setting rather than presented (often concert- style) in a folk club. This is not unreasonable and I am in sympathy with that.
A lack of consideration for folk club singers has been commented on & I can't vouch for the tale about the MT club, but the condescension and arrogance of often unimpressive singers may be the root of this (I don't include Roisin in this!!)
   In the real world people like to talk (and even shout) at such gatherings, maybe about football or horse racing- anyone who has been to an Irish pub session will know that, and while that may be unacceptable in a folk club where people normally pay good money it may explain why some folkies are unable to comprehend why it should be.
If you look at the important figures of the 'revival' Lloyd, MacColl, Behan etc, they're all gone & it's time his contribution (AND JUST AS MUCH REG HALL of the Rakes) was properly recognized- His contribution to the music was recognized at a festival in Roscommon a few years back and it's time we had a bit less carping criticism and a bit more appreciation for what the man has done, without any great wish for commercial reward.

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 May 17 - 07:41 AM

i must say what it is missing from this thread is an appreciation of what this artist achieved.

he has been around all the time i was on the folk scene. he wasn't really my kind of music, but i recognised him as serious about his craft. And people like Carthy recognised him and rated him.

i think he deserves better than some dredging up of a human failing. he listened to me quite respectfully as far as i can remember, and even if he didn't, what the hell does it matter?

he was a folksinger and did his best.

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 May 17 - 10:41 AM

my apologies....

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 15 May 17 - 09:05 AM

Hi Sandman - thanks for the link! Here it is as a blue clicky!

Kitty

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 May 17 - 08:38 AM

http://www.fastnetmaritime.com

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 May 17 - 08:36 AM

I like Bob, But I think it is out of order to talk loudly and deliberately through singers introductions.
Roisin White is booked at http://www.fastnetmaritime.com">http://www.fastnetmaritime.com

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: GUEST,Chris Lamb
Date: 15 May 17 - 07:31 AM

I wasn't present at the incident mentioned by Jim Carroll, but I have heard Bob sing many times over the past 50 years, and there have been a few occasions when he has been audibly chatting while other singers were introducing their songs. I have huge admiration for his singing, but his occasional lack of respect for fellow performers does diminish him as an individual in my eyes.

Subject: RE: Info/discussion: Bob Davenport
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 15 May 17 - 05:52 AM

Al, the incident appears to have occurred 17 years ago - Jim's 2012 post referred to an incident a dozen years previously - so would have involved a senior delinquent rather than a juvenile one....

Kitty