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BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing....
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: Barb'ry Date: 17 Jun 12 - 01:40 PM Actually, that's a really good point, M. Just shows how trolls manipulate! |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: Penny S. Date: 17 Jun 12 - 02:59 PM Lola |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,999 Date: 17 Jun 12 - 03:07 PM Ell, Oh, Ell, Aye, LOLA |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: Amos Date: 17 Jun 12 - 03:17 PM An individual who feels so at variance with his/her plumbing that he is driven to go through the extreme hoops required to switch genders is showing the courage to step up to a problem and deal with it, which is praiseworthy. They are also showing a deep integrity to what they themselves actually fee4l, regardless of custom or expectation. Also praiseworthy. Rather than signs of mental illness, these traits are signs of above-average strength of character. What does imply mental illness is the narrowminded reactionary responses from Josepp and Reiner upthread, who are apparently dedicated to promulgating the most arbitrary and reactionary ideas that well up inside of them without due reflection or insight. This is a study in Applied Neurosis. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: Don Firth Date: 17 Jun 12 - 03:21 PM A few years back, I saw a television interview (Charlie Rose, I think) with the late Quinten Crisp, an openly gay English gentleman who makes actor John Inman of the television comedy Are You Being Served? ("I'm free!") look positively macho, and who authored such bons mots as, "If you're using a public rest room and you notice a man staring at you, try to pee with style!" And "I am one of the stately homos of England!" The interviewer noted Crisp's appearance and the somewhat androgenous way he was dressed (like the photograph above) and asked him if people ever ask him if he is a man or a woman. Crisp said that it happens all the time, and his usual response is to ask them, "Does it really matter? What did you have in mind?" Good point! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 17 Jun 12 - 03:55 PM A person who wishes to change gender may have good ... or, possibly, not so good reasons for doing so. As far as I'm concerned that person's reasons for wanting to change gender, or the steps that he/she takes to achieve his/her objectives, are none of my business. I may have some sort of opinion on the matter but would normally keep that opinion to myself because I consider that I would achieve nothing useful by airing it. The same goes for homosexuality, bisexuality etc. On the other hand there are forms of behaviour which I wouldn't hesitate to pronounce on, because they are likely to cause harm e.g. ecocide, genocide, racism, fascism, paedophilia, some forms of political and religious extremism etc., etc. I think that josepp needs to cultivate a sense of proportion! |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: Amos Date: 17 Jun 12 - 03:58 PM I hope that someday someone who suffers from the conviction they are on the wrong planet will be able, with perseverance and courage and some dough, be able to put matters right and end up on another planet. When this occurs, they will probably expect to be treated as though they were actually ON the planet they move to, not still on the old one. A person who changes gender has to red-do the whole learning process of style, gesture, phrasing, and methods of moving that everybody goes through from the time they first learn to walk. They have to rebuild their whole armamentum of techniques for operating in the world. The trans-gender people I have known, of whom there are several, did not spring full-blown into their target identity. It took practice. So perhaps, Josephp, you could modulate your "no way, sorry" refusal into a willingness to treat them as learners. In my experience, once they have spent some time practicing up, they get very good at it. For most of them the fact that they are speaking "female as a second gender" (or male) is hard to detect. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 17 Jun 12 - 04:35 PM I have no problem at all with the concept of transgender. Let people get on with their lives doing what gives them peace and happiness, especially if they're causing no harm at all to anyone. What does concern me is the degree of anger and hate that comes across from posts such as josepp's. That attitiude IS vicious and harmful to others, and I wonder what made him so. It often stems from bitterness or even fear. An interesting personality to analyse. I do wish that folk like him could remember that we're all human and can love and be loved. Acceptance is the key. Calm down josepp, try to understand and accept. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,CS Date: 17 Jun 12 - 04:42 PM I knew a lovely young guy - very feminine, sensitive and compassionate character. Killed himself because he couldn't cope with the stresses that feeling like a woman in a man's body generated in him/her. He couldn't see a way out. Happily for many, there is a way out. And after all they go through to get there, I don't think they'd give a shit what Josepp may or may not think about it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,CS Date: 17 Jun 12 - 04:44 PM Spot on Eliza |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 17 Jun 12 - 04:49 PM Quite right CS, but his remarks could incite others to persecute and hate transgenders. If there is a law (in UK) against inciting racial hatred, his outpourings could be classed as a similar kind of force for evil. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: akenaton Date: 17 Jun 12 - 05:59 PM I used to think I was a parrot........But i'm alright now....alright now....alright now......... |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: catspaw49 Date: 17 Jun 12 - 06:30 PM We are possibly being too rough on Joe-boo......Really.....He could have brought the whole thing up because of the alien thing instead, to sort of deflect us. If that's it and he really believes he's from another planet but is too afraid to ask for help........Well shitfire Bub.....Lemmee help you out. I got a brother-in-law that works for the rocketry design group with Lockheed and he can get me a missle that I can shove up your ass and send you home!!! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: PHJim Date: 18 Jun 12 - 10:38 AM Those little philosophical sayings that people post on Facebook are things I often ignore, but I recall one that may be appropriate here. "Judging people does not define who they are, it defines who YOU are." |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 18 Jun 12 - 12:05 PM ""It often stems from bitterness or even fear."" You are right Eliza, and it comes across as very hateful. It is more damaging to oneself than to the object. My wife had an aunt who let bitterness take away all that was good in her life, and it made sense for me of the quote: "Bitterness is the act of swallowing poison, hoping that someone else will die from it." Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 18 Jun 12 - 02:05 PM Two excellent quotes from PHJim and Don. I think 'Live and let live' should be applied to anyone 'different' until and unless they are causing pain or distress to anyone else. I remember my old dad saying it isn't any of our business what people get up to sexually, what their sexual tastes or their orientation are etc. After all, they don't approach us and ask what WE do in bed do they? (Or, in this case, what we've got underneath our clothes!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: Greg F. Date: 19 Jun 12 - 09:41 AM Hey, Spaw, I'd be happy to chip in on the cost of that missle..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,josepp Date: 19 Jun 12 - 12:22 PM ////I don't think they'd give a shit what Josepp may or may not think about it//// Evidently, you care what I think. This whole thread is a string of "Nobody cares what you think, josepp" and yet you keep responding. At least I'm honest. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,999 Date: 19 Jun 12 - 01:00 PM "At least I'm honest." That is a serious disconnect in your thinking. Your honesty is not in question. Your views of others is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 19 Jun 12 - 01:48 PM josepp, in spite of the fact I don't agree with your viewpoint, you have started a very lively and interesting discussion and I've enjoyed following it. You have every right to your opinions, but I would rather you expressed them with less malice. Perhaps this was deliberate on your part, to get us all going. If so, that's manipulative. But I'm sure you'll agree it provoked many interesting and valid points. Has it at all changed your disgust of transgenders? Maybe just a little perhaps? |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: Don Firth Date: 19 Jun 12 - 01:51 PM Josepp, the people who have responded to you on this thread are just trying to be helpful to you. Obviously, you have a problem consisting of dwelling on the nature of other people's plumbing and how they use it. They are offering you helpful advice, which may be too subtle for you. Let me translate it into language that you should be able to understand: "Get a LIFE, man!!" Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: Bernard Date: 19 Jun 12 - 02:36 PM "At least I'm honest." That should have read... "At least I'm brutally honest." I have to agree that your being honest isn't at issue. A distinct lack of compassion for your fellow man is the issue. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: Elmore Date: 19 Jun 12 - 03:54 PM Too bad there isn't an operation that changes a-holes into decent human beings. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,mauvepink Date: 27 Apr 14 - 07:48 PM I have only just fallen across this thread and would like to thank those members who have stood up for transexuals on both continents. It is is through open eyed and open minded people like you that transsexuals have a chanfe at an ordinary lifd. Than you all xx |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 27 Apr 14 - 11:45 PM "I don't care if a guy changes his gender but he has no right to expect me to think of him as a woman." Why should you think about him at all? Why be concerned about the gender, the sex life or the genitals of some person you encounter in the street or at the grocery store? What difference does it make? When one person encounters another, the logical response is ordinary courtesy. Feelings of disapproval or self-righteousness just burn up your energy and raise your blood pressure for no good reason. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: Janie Date: 27 Apr 14 - 11:48 PM Excellent post, leeneia. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: Amos Date: 28 Apr 14 - 12:30 AM What Janie said! |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: Jeri Date: 28 Apr 14 - 09:49 AM Only on Mudcat can someone be lauded for responding to a nearly two year old troll post... |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,mauvepink Date: 28 Apr 14 - 12:18 PM It can never be too long to say a genuine thank you though I apologise if that seems the case Tbh I responded without noting the date. I made two bad errors and typos on this forum yesterday. I shall be better when I get better! :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: Jeri Date: 28 Apr 14 - 03:28 PM Mauvepink, it's fine to refresh old threads. It was picking up the OLD fight that had been dropped a couple years ago that I found typical of the current battle mentality here. People would rather react than look at whether what they're reacting to is current or the persona they're reacting at is still around. There was way more support here than otherwise. I think there always will be. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 28 Apr 14 - 04:07 PM Oh, dear- Who here has gender dysphoria symptoms? |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,# Date: 28 Apr 14 - 05:37 PM "Who here has gender dysphoria symptoms?" I won't answer that until I know what 'gender dysphoria symptoms' means. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 28 Apr 14 - 06:02 PM Think of the opposite of "dysphoria"---"euphoria". That would be good feelings or good emotions. feelings or emotions. The answer to the question is that I don't. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,# Date: 28 Apr 14 - 06:04 PM Thanks, Uncle_DaveO. Neither do I. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST Date: 28 Apr 14 - 07:01 PM Dyspastria (from the Urban Dictionary) When a individual selects a certian pastry from a vending machine, and instead gets the wrong pastry. Useage : "Joe felt dyspastria when he received a cheese danish instead of a cinnamon roll." |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,Ed T Date: 28 Apr 14 - 07:02 PM Opps, cinnamon boy was me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 29 Apr 14 - 04:06 AM Presumably, having eaten the cheese Danish, the next stage was dyspepsia? |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,Claire M Date: 29 Apr 14 - 06:49 AM Hiya! I'd quite happily have Brian Molko's (lead singer of Placebo – he's gorgeous) babies so I'm not bothered. I do wonder why the OP is though. As long as he let me borrow his nail varnish. I like the song, thanks for putting it up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: Midchuck Date: 29 Apr 14 - 08:11 AM Couple years back, Jeri said: Why would anyone care so much about what OTHER people believe? I go back to the "control freak" theory. Yeah. That probably would apply to actively proselytizing religious fundamentalists, wouldn't it? But everyone takes THEM seriously and goes out of their way not to offend them. If there were only a couple hundred such in the country, they'd be locked up so they couldn't injure themselves. It's just a matter of there being enough of you to have political power. Before anyone asks, "Yes, and your point is?" I'll admit to being not quite sure. P. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,Patsy Date: 29 Apr 14 - 11:43 AM Could it possibly be that it is the fact that many Transgender people are stunning to look at that makes some people (men)uneasy about it? I was introduced to lady several years ago by an acquaintance who had gone through the whole process of Transgender. Her background was from Indian culture and her own family had issues about her attending any family ceremonies as a woman, the ironic thing was as a man they could accommodate the idea and allow him/her to attend. It was only acceptable for her to appear at family functions as a male as she was from birth despite the fact that she had gone through surgery and hormone treatment. She was elegant, intelligent and absolutely stunning with a model figure to match. Anyone would have been proud to have a daughter as stunning however, eventually in time her father finally accepted her as a daughter. It was her father's blessing that turned things around for her and she is now very happy fulfilled woman. Transgenders do not have an easy time and possibly suffer from bigotry and ignorance more so than a gay person coming out. In particular I am thinking about the Ladyboys from Bangkok who are stunningly attractive but I bet there are not many hetero men who would admit to admiring their beauty or enjoying a performance or actually admit to being there! April Ashley is another beauty who made the headlines as a Transgender and I remember reading it in disbelief because I had been envious of her classic sophisticated looks when I thought she was a woman! It seems to me that the reason that more men have a problem with it is the deep down fear abd insecurity of being duped. I could be wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,McMusket Date: 29 Apr 14 - 04:18 PM I read the original post. There are some nasty opinions around here. Makes you wonder why some people find folk music interesting. Both traditional and contemporary folk music is so full of dismissing odious creatures who see different people as an object of hate without knowing anything about them. Folk can be about examining the world around you and seeing a place in society for all, it really makes you think. How can some people shave? You have to look yourself in the eye. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,mauvepink Date: 29 Apr 14 - 07:17 PM Apart from four places I approached, out of over 20 I have attended and sung in, I have never been given a bad time by any genuine "folkie". Initially I got some stares and some sniggers, from a very limited few, but these have been cast into a very deep shadow from the light that shone from so many others. Generally I have been treated totally ordinarily and with no favour - just as it should be - and my life has only been made richer by being involved in folk music. I have known the depths of some sad people's sad minds, concommittant with the beauty that is in most others hearts. Among your membership are several who have chatted to me in total gentlemanly and female ways. Not an ounce of prurience or disdain in anything they asked. And total confidentiality. Not one of them has 'dropped me in it' on threads ever. Several have met me. Some have sung with me regularly. It is all very normal. The men have never shown concern, some knowing I am actually gay anyway, because our lives hve been eith music and not sex. I know so many lovely men and women on the folk scene and that is why, on seeing this thread, I said my thanks, Its easy to hate and ridicule. It's not easy to stand up in the face of it and support those suffering from it. That is true bravery in my eyes and I am gratefully acknowledging it. Some may now inevitably change thier minds about me as a contributor. I accept that every working day of my life. But nothing snd no-one can detract from the many good people on here and on the scene that live and let love, sing with no sting and who dare to care :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,# Date: 29 Apr 14 - 07:20 PM Well said, mauvepink. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: Ed T Date: 29 Apr 14 - 07:53 PM A "tip of the hat" for your last post, mauvepink. It takes courage (and integrity) to openly come forward. I cant see how that would make much of a difference to anyone. It just adds to the diversity of the community. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,mauvepink Date: 29 Apr 14 - 08:04 PM You all outed me who took the stand :) I could not hide while others took flack for supporting the likes of me. It was time to support back I'm nowt special and ask for no more or less than others than to live a life unmolested with good companions. Folk is full of good companions and most of the music is okay too! Lol |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST Date: 29 Apr 14 - 08:08 PM "I'm nowt special and ask for no more or less than others than to live a life unmolested with good companions." IMO, it takes someone special to say that :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,mauvepink Date: 29 Apr 14 - 08:17 PM Nah... At the end of a long day it is special to see special folk who recognise it. It's always been harder to be with me thsn be me. Many people got judged for choosing me as a friend, co-singer, or even to sit next to me and chat, initially. They are the special folk and my life is only as good as the people I have with me in it :) I really do know "special" and never would have without me being transsexual. Special can be as simple as a smile or even hearing my name a certain way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: GUEST,# Date: 29 Apr 14 - 08:28 PM Sorry, I left the # off my last post. |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: Jeri Date: 29 Apr 14 - 09:32 PM All this arguing... sigh. Mauvepink, you ARE special. You may not seem courageous from inside your own skin, but trust me, you are. There are many people who would try to melt into obscurity to escape notice. No judgement on that--they may have had more notice than is reasonable. You don't HAVE to talk about your own life. You're special-- no arguing, dammit! ;) |
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Subject: RE: BS: About This Whole Transgender Thing.... From: Ebbie Date: 30 Apr 14 - 12:27 AM Hey! I agree with Jeri. |
