BS: Drones Over America

Subject: BS: Drones Over America
From: Songwronger
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 07:03 PM

30,000 drone aircraft to be deployed across the U.S. by 2020:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/feb/7/coming-to-a-sky-near-you/print/

People have no idea what's going on. They think they're UFOs:

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oG7kYJ_OBPNScAtGlXNyoA?p=drone%20ufo&fr2=sb-top&fr=yfp-t-701

Law enforcement agencies are being lobbied to buy the drones:

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/2234/728/Smile..html

Cops are already talking about arming the things, for use against U.S. citizens.

http://www.tecca.com/news/2011/11/01/texas-sheriff-department-robotic-drone/

Is anyone here concerned about this? Obama already has his secret "kill list" that he reviews daily, and he's already set the precedent of killing Americans with drones overseas, so do you really want Obamney adding YOUR NAME to the kill list?

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 07:17 PM

NO! But, maybe yours.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 08:36 PM

Stay inside. It worked for bin Laden for years.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: michaelr
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 08:43 PM

Yes, I am very concerned. Drones are probably the most evil and cowardly development in "conventional" warfare - at least to drop the atomic bomb an actual person had to fly over Japan. Fascism is here, folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 08:47 PM

This is one major reason why the US needs a comprehensive immigration policy... And soon... We are educating some every smart people who would love to stay here but can't...

Seems we are always reading about bad folks who got their education here in the US... Keep 'um... Give them jobs... Make them feel welcome... Don't send them back to messed up countries...

These people are the ones who will figure out how to defeat the computer programs that could possibly control drones...

The other problem with drones is that we can detect them and they really don't have the range that is needed to make a trip to the US... But that's in the future...

Keep the bright people, stupid...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 09:06 PM

"probably the most evil and cowardly development in "conventional" warfare"

Well, it saves a pilot(s) from being in theatre. It provides multiple engagements by one pilot and far more. It's cheaper. What's not to like about death from afar over death from above? Death is death, no? Why not sterilize and sanitize it? Make it truly impersonable? After all, the politicians and the rich who control them are at arms length to those that die for their gain. Why not make it easier for the people that do their killing for them? Surely this is a win-win for the rich and for the poor that the rich pay to kill for them?

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 09:08 PM

"Give them jobs" What Jobs?

Maybe operatin' them drones and launching those Hellfires

Don't worry if a few Civvies get toasted, we just count all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent.

No Trial, no report to file.

No worry over old fashioned Habeas Corpus.

It's all part of the "Fog of War"

Note the eerie music by Philip Glass

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 09:15 PM

Yup, Gn-ze...

The folks who hate the drones hate them because Obama is using them... If John McCain were using them they would be doing high fives everytime one is successful...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 09:39 PM

If so, they are making the same mental error you are, Bobert, only from the opposite side of the partisan hall, that's all.

You both need seriously to get over it. Those things are evil no matter which party is in power and uses them...and they both do it for the very same coporatocracy.

The new American generation of Adolf and Benito in high places are soooo happy that you guys don't mind imperial murder when your own party does it. That's the ticket to maintaining public support, even if it's only lukewarm support...just keep half of the home crowd cheering for THEIR home team, and everything will be A-okay. If you can manipulate just half of the people at any one time, that's good enough to maintain control over all the people. Heck, they'll even volunteer to inform on and help arrest the other half if it comes to that.

I hated the drones when Bush used them. I hate the drones when Obama uses them. I'll hate them when the next stuffed shirt in the Oval Office uses them.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 09:47 PM

I hate fuckin' war, LH... We ain't doing what we could - mostly because of stupid politics - to create peace...

I don't think that Dennis Kucinich's Department of Peace was a bad idea... It was a great idea... The military industrial complex jammed it and turned it into some ***joke***???

I hate drones... I also hate everything else that we do where people get killed ...

There are alternatives... Just not profitable for the "Masters of War" and they can destroy and president, Congressman or party that gets in the way of their % of out GNP...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 09:57 PM

FUCKING GEEE HOSSS A PHAT!!!!!!!!!!

THE DRONES IN USE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE SIMPLY CHEAPER REPLACEMENTS FOR OTHER, MORE EXPENSIVE TYPES OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AIRCRAFT!!!!!!!

BESIDES THE FUCKING COST. and if it crashes you don't have to go to a fucking funeral >>>>>>> What is the fucking difference between watching border with drones or helicopters. People have been shot and missiles have been fired from manned aircraft too. SAME FUCKING THING!!!!!!

GROW THE FUCK UP!!!!!
YOU ANTISOCIAL ALARMIST UNPATRIOTIC AAAAAA HOLES!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Janie
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 10:02 PM

I don't spend much time worrying about the idea because worrying doesn't do anything but make me feel bad - but yes, I have concerns. Just like I have concerns about what it means that I can click on Google maps and see detailed, satellite images of my yard.

1984.

I don't think I can stop it. I don't think the full effects or implications will be felt in my life time, at least in North America. But it scares me if I stop and think about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 10:05 PM

Yup, JtS...

These people are just Obama-haters, KKKers, Republicans, rich or whatever...

If McCain were doing it they'd love it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 10:20 PM

Bobert. It isn't anything we haven't been doing for years by other, similar if more expensive and riskier means.


It like being afraid of your wristwatch because it has a radium dial and well, H-Bombs are radioactive too!

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 10:30 PM

Yup, Jack...

Now drink a cold Iron City Beer and leave these mentally ill hypocrites alone...

We know the deal here...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 11:04 PM

The headline of one of the articles linked to in the opening post:

"Texas Sheriff's Department now equipped with armed robotic drone"

The only mention the article makes of the "armed" claim:

"In the future, the drone may carry weapons (it's designed to do so), but Gage says he sees no immediate need to equip it with any."

So which one is it? Are they "now equipped" or is it something that may happen "in the future"?


Wanna hear a new oxymoron? "Unbiased Web-based jouralism."

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: michaelr
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 11:07 PM

So let me get this straight:

If I'm uncomfortable with the idea of unmanned aircraft, controlled by some pimply video-game jockey kid miles away, patrolling the sky over my head for god knows what (but probably secret) purpose, I am

a. An ANTISOCIAL ALARMIST UNPATRIOTIC AAAAAA HOLE

b. A mentally ill hypocrite

Which am I? Could I possibly be both? Can you explain why? Someone is losing the plot here.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 11:27 PM

The plot here is to Google up "Military Science" and learn the difference between "tactics" and "strategy"...

Once those basic concepts are in place then, and only then, can anyone express an educated opinion on drones...

Anything less is just noise...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: artbrooks
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 12:53 AM

Drone = radio controlled airplane. Kids...and kid-like adults...have been flying them for years. About time they started using them for something useful.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: michaelr
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 02:10 AM

Military Science? Really? How could that pertain to operations within the US?

"We got our guns on you at all times. Feel really secure."

And you haven't explained the insults, either.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 03:59 AM

I read years ago on this forum, when I was bitchin' about the green 'eyes', that if you have nothing to hide then why worry.

Alfred, this is why.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Megan L
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 04:07 AM

Ach drat I thought the Americans had finally decided to learn real music and were comparin the drones on their bagpipes. Of course the bagpipes ar a WMD

















Weapon of Mass Deafness

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 04:53 AM

I am pacifistic (I would like to be peaceful but I'm not quite there yet). I think war is obscene; I think war will eventually be considered not only archaic but gauche.

I don't see the big difference - given the aims of war - between one weapon or another. We started out, no doubt, with choking each other with bare hands, progressed to spears, then arrows, then bullets (single ball, rammed into the barrel) then to the Gatling and indiscriminate bombs, then to hand guns and rifles, and military guns with sheets of rapid-fire bullets. Somewhere along the way we learned how to kill each other from shipboard from miles away. Then of course we refined our skills to the ultimate bomb that could kill hundreds of thousands of people at once.

So, a drone? Just another refinement.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 08:28 AM

Songwronger: "Is anyone here concerned about this? Obama already has his secret "kill list" that he reviews daily, and he's already set the precedent of killing Americans with drones overseas, so do you really want Obamney adding YOUR NAME to the kill list?"

..and they chanted even louder:
""Four more years! four more years!..Yes we can, yeas we can!!...Hope and change hope and change! "Four more years! four more years!..Yes we can, yeas we can!!...Hope and change hope and change! "Four more years! four more years!..Yes we can, yeas we can!!...Hope and change hope and change! "Four more years! four more years!..Yes we can, yeas we can!!...Hope and change hope and change! "Four more years! four more years!..Yes we can, yeas we can!!...Hope and change hope and change!"

....and they keep thinking Obama is on the 'left'????
Does this policy, (along with others, NDAA etc. etc) represent you people who identify with the 'left'????
....and attack people who call this very thing to your attention...and call them 'right wingers'?...when my contention is, it's both parties, and both of them are corrupted, beyond what their followers THINK they are..............
.....but they just don't listen.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 08:42 AM

Bobbins: "These people are just Obama-haters, KKKers, Republicans, rich or whatever...
If McCain were doing it they'd love it..."

So, Obama does it and YOU love it????
If and when Romney does it, I guess you'd be loving it too???

Now they say it's to 'patrol the borders'.....isn't this contrary to their 'immigration' policy??

Shhhh, Quick!... Look the other way!!
..but I guess when the parties are dividing America, somebody has to have the 'upper hand'....so I guess the race is on???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 09:33 AM

Guess no one was up to Googling up "military science"???

Tactics v. Strategies, folks, is what people are missing...

Is it better to use conventional tactics and fill the back of a C-5A with dead American kids or use the technology of the day to accomplish more with less collateral damage???

This thread isn't about war itself, people... It's about "military science" and weaponry...

Teribus, where ever you are, stick your head in here and straighten some folks out...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 10:08 AM

Art imitates life.......or is it the other way around.......watch.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 11:14 AM

"Yes, I am very concerned. Drones are probably the most evil and cowardly development in "conventional" warfare - at least to drop the atomic bomb an actual person had to fly over Japan. Fascism is here, folks. "

So a police department that swaps its multimillion dollar helicopter budget for some much cheaper, safer and quieter drones is cowardly and the same as nuking 200,000 people in Japan?

GROW UP!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 11:27 AM

Cheaper, safer, quieter = Fasism????

That is interesting math right there.

Do you know that there is Hydrogen in water? The same stuff they explode in thermonuclear devices????


And drones!!!! Drones!!!!!???/

Male bees are drones!!! there are MILLIONS!!! MILLIONS of drones all over the world controlled not by pimply teenagers but by nothing more than instincts and their own savage animal nature!!!!

Did you know that bees have stingers????

MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DRONES ARMED WITH STINGER MISSILES!!!!!!

CALL OUT THE MALitias!! Michaelr is "concerned!!!!"

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 11:31 AM

Jack, I agree with you. Spying on American citizens for any number of trumped up agendas, political or corporate, or both working together, from what is perceived as either side, is a direct threat to any freedom, or Democracy, we think we have left!

How far does this have to get, before some of you realize, that the concerns that I, and some others on here, have actually been in YOUR/OUR behalf?...but those who have been blinded by which 'party' is behind it..keep blinding each other, as to what is really going on?
As I've said before, the puppet masters are working through BOTH parties!...and this is a FACT...not some Tea Party crap, that I've been accused of.....and I'm NOT a member, nor particular supporter of the Tea Party, or ANY party....but the phoney rhetoric keeps coming.

Good post, Jack..thanks for pointing that out!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 02:52 PM

To the tune of "The Volga Boatman Song:"

Para-noi-a, para-noi-a. . . .

Ebbie, up thread, has the right of it. In times gone by, as you stood there on the battlefield sweating like a pig in your chain mail armor and surcoat, you had to look your adersary in the eyes before swinging your two-handed broadsword like a baseball bat and watching his head bounce on the ground and roll into the ditch while his body spurted blood all over you and toppled to the ground.

Later on, you could sit behind your Browning machine gun and hose a whole area, not seeing any individual enemies there, but knowing that you were killing and maiming them by the dozens.

But you didn't have to look them in the eyes first.

Science fiction writer Orson Scott Card wrote a novel some years ago called Ender's Game,, in which Ender Wiggins, a young whiz at computer games thinks he's engaging in yet another game, and (spoiler alert!) later learns that the game was for real, and that, when he won the game, as he usually did, he had actually wiped out the entire population of an alien planet. He didn't know that he had been trained to do exactly this. He didn't know as he played the game that the spacehips and missles he was controling--and the enemy--were actually real.

This lead to an excellent sequel, entitled Speaker for the Dead.

Progress. . . .      ???

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Arkie
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 03:27 PM

Drones can be deadly. So far it seems the Obama administration has used them against sworn enemies of the country and not risked the lives of loyal American forces. I suppose those complaining prefer expensive and deadly engagements such as in Iraq and Afghanistan since those wars have helped us get rid some of the poorer elements of society, who if they were not off dying in wars would be at home applying for welfare. As for the so-called "Americans" killed by drones, I do find it interesting that terrorists are being defended here by the same folk who defended the invasions in the middle east. But drones have added another very dangerous element to the arsenal of violence. I will admit that if Romney, Rove, or the states of Texas, Louisiana, and Arizona were pulling the strings, it would strike fear into my heart.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 04:19 PM

I don't know how I feel about the possibility of drones over America itself. I can see the applicability of their use for specific purposes- Waco comes to mind - but the idea of their being deployed randomly or for monitoring the state of the Union is off-putting, to say the least.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 05:05 PM

Deployed randomly? Who has money to deploy them randomly? Not any government in this country. That is for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 05:08 PM

What if their use by states or cities were subsidized?

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 05:18 PM

I'm waitin' for Barney Fife to get one an' buzz around lookin' for Earnest T when Earnest sees the drone first and takes it out with his 12 guage pump shotgun....

You know that this stuff is gonna happen...

Going to get very interesting...

Me??? I think that unarmed drones being used for traffic control or following known criminals running from crime scenes is acceptable... Fishin' expeditions??? No, no, no... Unconstitutional...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 05:50 PM

Subsidized to buzz around in the sky randomly looking for what? They can't do anything a helicopter can't do and they buzz around here all the time. Legally law enforcement using drones are subject to the same privacy and warrant requirements as any other cops.

Drones add nothing new. They are just, in principle at least, cheaper and safer.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 05:58 PM

Predator drones are being used for patrolling the borders with Mexico and Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 06:31 PM

Jack the Sailor: "Deployed randomly? Who has money to deploy them randomly? Not any government in this country. That is for sure."

RIGHT JACK!!..Boy, you are coming ALIVE!!...Well, there is a trillion dollars unaccounted for, that I keep bringing up.....interesting to find out, how else they're planning on spending it, and for 'why' for 'whom'....certainly NOT for jobs, union or otherwise..not to feed the hungry caused by this mess...or 'health care'.....hmm....now what REALLY could be up their sleeves?.....and who is the behind it, to benefit who, or what?....YOU??...ME???...a Renaissance in musical culture?....I..D-o-o-o-n't think so.....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: gnu
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 06:44 PM

Drones for monitoring seems far fetched. Fixed cams not so much. Employed in England from what I have read. Just the $ seem to say no.

However, as Ebbie has said, when used for specific purposes, they could be useful and save $. Arming them seems disturbing.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: michaelr
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 07:56 PM

Seems we have two different topics mixed up here. To wit:

1. Drones being used abroad to combat whomever the government says is a terrorist.

So, if no American lives are in danger, if it's just them brown-skinned foreigners dying, that makes it OK. Safer and cheaper. Sorry, but that point of view is despicable to me.

2. Drones being used inside the US for unknown purposes.

Being unmanned, a drone cannot be considered a cheaper replacement for, say, a rescue helicopter. So what is it good for? Surveillance, of course, for starters. We have been told, ever since Bush and his henchmen began taking away our liberties and civil rights in the aftermath of 9-11, that "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about." That point of view is also despicable to me.

This is how I feel about the subject regardless of which party is in power or who is President.

Still waiting for an apology for the name-calling by Bobert and Jack.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 08:12 PM

I didn't do any name calling, michaelr... None...

But hey... We go back and are friends so if it takes an apology for something that I didn't do then...

...I am sorry...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Songwronger
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 08:25 PM

I have a 12-gauge shotgun. I'm going to buy some goose shot for it so I can reach up HIGH to bring these things down. The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reaffirms our right to be free of unreasonable searches (eye in the sky crap), and the Second Amendment reaffirms our right to own firearms. If I don't use the 2nd to protect the 4th, then I deserve to be a slave.

Oh, and I'll vote for the anti-war candidate in the upcoming presidential election.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 08:32 PM

I heard a one hour show on these things on NPR, wronger... The ones that the cops are using aren't flown all that "HIGH"... Okay, maybe you might not bring one down with a shotgun but Rap, and maybe me (I earned a sharpshooters ribbon back when my eyes were good) could take one down with a 30/30 and a decent scope...

But I agree... The entire idea of drones being used in fishing expeditions is definitely is "unlawful search"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 08:35 PM

Gonna have to hide the pot plants.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 08:45 PM

Yup... Put 'um in the veggie garden... The drones don't know pot from tomatoes... Hide your Playboy magazines, too, er might find one hanging out every day over your house with some pervert at the controls...

Oh, and ya' gotta quit having sex in the backyard 'er you might end up on YouTube, courtesy of Barney Fife...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: artbrooks
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 09:29 PM

Oh sure - shoot straight up with your shotgun/rifle. Sure hope there isn't some kid standing where the shot/bullet comes back down. Happened 10 yards from me once - 15-year-old girl DOA.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: michaelr
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 10:23 PM

Well, Bobert, if you weren't referring to me when you said "these mentally ill hypocrites" then you don'te owe me an apology. But it sure seems you were calling someone names.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 10:34 PM

No, michaelr, I was not referring to you...

I get involved with a lot of folks every night at the Washington Post discussions so I hear the propaganda that is out there and I am addressing it... None of what I say is personalized... It is all about policies... If you felt you got caught in one of my rants, I am so very, very sorry...

You are my friend... I don't do friendly fire as a general rule... It happens now and then and when it does I am remorseful...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 11:05 PM

Songwronger started this thread for 2 apparent reasons.

1. To crap on the President. Which is the reason that he starts most of his threads.

2. To display his ignorance of technology. A drone can't do anything a helicopter can't do and we have had those in our skies since the 50's

I guess it is more fashionable to transfer one's hysterical fantastical anti-government paranoia from "Black Helicopters" to "Drones" But I, for one am sick to death of it.

"
Being unmanned, a drone cannot be considered a cheaper replacement for, say, a rescue helicopter. So what is it good for? Surveillance, of course, for starters. We have been told, ever since Bush and his henchmen began taking away our liberties and civil rights in the aftermath of 9-11, that "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about." That point of view is also despicable to me."

You are really pissing me off. Do you know what the police use helicopters for? NO? Then look it the fuck up before whining about it!!!

Yes it is for surveillance. The chase suspects with them when the suspects run!!!

Local law enforcement is not going to use them to randomly spy on people. Just as they don't use helicopters or unmarked patrol cars to do the same, because the constitution and case law does not allow it.