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Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3

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Richie 25 Sep 12 - 10:32 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 25 Sep 12 - 10:52 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 25 Sep 12 - 11:00 AM
Steve Gardham 25 Sep 12 - 04:04 PM
Richie 25 Sep 12 - 08:43 PM
Richie 25 Sep 12 - 10:37 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 26 Sep 12 - 09:03 AM
Richie 26 Sep 12 - 10:46 AM
Steve Gardham 26 Sep 12 - 04:51 PM
Steve Gardham 26 Sep 12 - 05:03 PM
Richie 08 Oct 12 - 01:02 PM
Richie 18 Oct 12 - 09:45 AM
Steve Gardham 18 Oct 12 - 12:24 PM
Steve Gardham 18 Oct 12 - 12:26 PM
Richie 18 Oct 12 - 12:30 PM
Steve Gardham 18 Oct 12 - 12:32 PM
Steve Gardham 18 Oct 12 - 01:20 PM
Richie 18 Oct 12 - 01:55 PM
Richie 18 Oct 12 - 02:05 PM
Steve Gardham 18 Oct 12 - 05:56 PM
GUEST 18 Oct 12 - 10:41 PM
Richie 24 Oct 12 - 01:31 PM
Steve Gardham 24 Oct 12 - 03:04 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 24 Oct 12 - 05:33 PM
GUEST,Lighter 24 Oct 12 - 06:20 PM
Steve Gardham 24 Oct 12 - 06:47 PM
Richie 24 Oct 12 - 10:02 PM
Richie 25 Oct 12 - 12:21 AM
Richie 25 Oct 12 - 12:42 AM
Steve Gardham 25 Oct 12 - 02:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Richie
Date: 25 Sep 12 - 10:32 AM

Hi,

After checking, it appears that De Witt's "Forget-Me-Not Songster" (1872) and Wehman's Universal Songster (1884) all have substantially the same version, the title is "Gipsy Davy" in Wehman's.

Essentially it's a version adapted by minstrels for the stage.
-----------
On another related topic:

Does anyone know if Texas Gladden recorded Black Jack Davy?

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 25 Sep 12 - 10:52 AM

Richie - Texas Gladden - Ballad Legacy, has Gypsy Davy" (sample at that link).


Steve (if I haven't got confused over who asked that) - there are 3 pages of songsters at archive.org: Songsters.


Mick


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 25 Sep 12 - 11:00 AM

btw the quote I gave from the de Witt songster was from this article: She Chucked Up Everything And Just Cleared Off: The Appeal Of The Gypsy Laddie (pdf file).

Mick


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 25 Sep 12 - 04:04 PM

Thanks, Mick.
Well that's me tied up till Christmas then.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Richie
Date: 25 Sep 12 - 08:43 PM

Nice article Mick,

The De Witt text was published in Ballads and Songs collected by the Missouri Folk-lore Society by Henry Marvin Belden, Missouri Folklore Society - 1973

Elopments now are all the go,
They set the ladies crazy;
Now then, ladies all, beware,
And look out for Gypsy Davy.

I don't have that edition. It appears in a google book search tho.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Richie
Date: 25 Sep 12 - 10:37 PM

Here's a gr8 version from Alabama: Ra-Ta-Tum-De-Dum. I need help transcribing it. Anyone clear up two missing parts? Link below

http://bluegrassmessengers.com/ra-ta-tum-de-dum-pennington-al-1952-browne.aspx

I put a photo of Archie Hughes (singer of the 1863 version above) on my site:

http://bluegrassmessengers.com/us--canada-versions-200-the-gypsy-laddie.aspx

If anone has Texas Gladden's lyrics I'd like to add them,

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 26 Sep 12 - 09:03 AM

Richie

I've had a listen to the Alabama version and here's what I've got. I've put the changes in bold. (I amended a few minor spelling errors too).

There are a few places I'm still not sure of. In particular the word I've given as try in v3. I'm sure it should be some cognate for swear/vow, but I can't get it; it still sounds like try. (A version of the song in Bronson from Utah has a version of this verse with swear in that position: "Come go with me, my pretty fair maid,/Come go with me, my honey,/I swear by the sword that hangs by my side/You never shall want for money.") I also can't quite decide if the We on the last line of the verse shoud be You but I think it sounds marginally more like We; I could be wrong!.

Mick



"Go fetch me out my iron-gray,
The brown ones not so speedy.
I'll ride all night and I'll ride all day,
Till I'll overtake my lady."

CHORUS: Rattle tum te dum dum
Tettle tum te dum dum
Tettle tum te dum
So i-dy.

He rode and rode till he came to the waters deep
It looked so deep and miry.
Till the tears came flowing down his cheeks
And ?saw?(?so?, ?thought?) he lost his lady.
CHORUS

Won't ya turn back my pretty little miss
Now won't ya turn back my honey.
I ?try? by the sword that hangs from my side
We never shall lack for money


I won't turn back my pretty little miss
I won't turn back your honey.
I'd rather take a kiss from gypson's lips,
Than you and all your money.
CHORUS

Pull off, pull of those high-heeled shoes,
That's made with Spanish leather.
Put on, put on those low-heeled shoes,
And we'll take a walk together.

I won't pull off these high-heeled shoes,
That's made with Spanish leather.
I won't put on those low-heeled shoes,
And I won't take a walk together.
CHORUS


Last night you lay on a feather bed
Your husband he lay by you
Tonight you lay on an old straw bed
With the gypson's all around you.

CHORUS


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Richie
Date: 26 Sep 12 - 10:46 AM

Hi,

The Roxburghe Ballads (1897): Volume 8 - Page 154 by William Chappell, Ballad Society reports this about Child K a: "and Mrs. Helena Titus Brown, of New York (in 1790)."

Would this be sufficient evidence that the ballad is dated 1790? Why wouldn't child affix that date to K a.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 26 Sep 12 - 04:51 PM

Mick,
I've been through the first page, and found a couple of gr8 versions of Paul Jones. Not a lot else of interest yet though. A lot of it is either too recent or religious or political.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 26 Sep 12 - 05:03 PM

Richie, Chappell was long dead when volume 8 came out. The series by then had been taken over by Sam Cowell's brother-in-law, J W Ebsworth, who was a bigger sceptic than either myself or Child. I don't know why Child didn't verify the date, but Mary Ellen Brown's book might throw light on it. I can give you the full statement in Rox if you haven't got it. Ebsworth is very scathing of a number of versions, and I do tend to agree with him usually. There was a lot of literary interference in that period.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Richie
Date: 08 Oct 12 - 01:02 PM

Hi,

I'm not sure how to proceed with US versions of Child 204 Jamie Douglas. In his narrative to Jamie Douglas, Child gives the text of a an older song, Waly, Waly, Gin Love Be Bony (The Water is Wide) and shows the textual relationship between the two. As an appendix Child gives the text of Arthur's Seat Shall be my Bed, etc., or, Love In Despair.

Roud gives versions of Waly, Waly (The Water Is Wide) mixed with version of Jamie Douglas as does The Child Ballad Collection. The Traditional Ballad Index separates Jamie Douglas" and "Waly, Waly (The Water Is Wide)."

Should Waly, Waly (The Water Is Wide) be part of Jamie Douglas? If so, here are some related US songs:

"Waly Waly" "Wailie, Wailie" 1927 Sandburg
"Cockle Shells," "When Cockleshells Turn Silver Bells"
"I Wish I Was a Child Again" 1918 Sharp
"The Ripest of Apples" (ME) 1900
"The Water is Wide"
"Maggie Goddon"
"Must I Go Bound"
"O Love Is Teasin' " Jean Ritchie (KY) REC
"There is a Tavern in the Town," "Every Night When the Sun Goes In" (NC) 1918
"The Brisk Young Lover" (NC) Gentry
"Love Has Brought Me to Despair"
"My Blue-Eyed Boy" Hewitt (NE) 1905 Pound
"William Hall" English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians, No. 171, version D . vol. II, p. 242.

Should they be part of the US versions? Most are melodically related as well.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Richie
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 09:45 AM

I'm looking at 213. Sir James the Rose.

According to Coffin: "The Child Sir James the Rose ballad is not in America. The American texts are highly sophisticated and based on Sir James the Ross, a song Child, IV, 156 thought to have been composed by Michael Bruce." The US and Canadian versions, some titled Sir James the Rose, will be of the ballad Child titled after Michael Bruce's poem, Sir James the Ross.

The English and Scottish versions suffer from the same errant titles. For example the Glenbuchat version, titled Sir James the Ross, matches Child's in all but two stanzas (the sixteenth and the last), and has more Scots diction than the original broadside.

Roud lumps both ballads. The ballad index separates them.

The question is should Sir James the Ross be listed as an appendix to No. 213, as 213A?

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 12:24 PM

Richie, my advice would be to treat Waly Waly as a separate song from the Child Ballad unless there is some evidence of the plot of JD in there somewhere. If you like I could post the fullest version I have from early print of Waly Waly to use as a template. Another alternative, if you are desperate to include all the Waly Waly versions, is to include them as secondary songs as did the early American collectors who were desperate to include anything vaguely related to a Child ballad. The best way I know of looking at WW in relation to JD is to accept WW as a song within a ballad. Most of the songs you list above are easily seperable from the Waly Waly songs and I have done in-depth studies on most of them. The sharing of tunes has little relevance without other evidence.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 12:26 PM

'separable' it should be.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Richie
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 12:30 PM

213 needs some clarification:

Is Elfrida and Sir James of Perth an older ballad?

Does anyone have Sir James the Rose (Ross) as printed in One Hundred and Fifty Scots Songs, London, 1768?

It was reprinted by Keith in Last Leaves. Was one of the versions Joe Offer provided that version?

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 12:32 PM

There seems to be no evidence to suggest 'Sir James the Rose/Ross is anything but a stall ballad. It was widely printed on garlands etc from the middle of the 18thc and I don't think any of the oral versions predate this. In what way are there 2 separate ballads?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 01:20 PM

Child is quite clear on his opinion on the various pieces related to 213 and the way it has been rewritten. He gives plenty of information on p156 of Vol 4 and I haven't seen any of his assertions refuted anywhere. Don't forget to look at the footnotes.

Pinkerton's assertion on the previous page 'was without question considerably manipulated by the editor. All the important variations are certainly his work' Pinkerton published in 1781/3. Do we know who he was referring to?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Richie
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 01:55 PM

Here's info on 213 from two sources:

Alexander Keith from Greig's Last Leaves of Traditional Ballads:

LXIV. Sir James the Rose (Child, 213):

   There are two different versions of this ballad extant, one traditional, with its " scene " in Perthshire, the other literary and attributed to Michael Bruce, the Loch-Leven poet (1746-1767). Child deals fully with the former, but in Aberdeenshire and and the North-East the latter has, in great measure, ousted the traditional version, so that it is with the Bruce text we have to deal. All the texts of both versions are clearly derived from stall copies, broadsides, or other prints of the second half of the eighteenth century. The versions collected by Messrs. Greig and Duncan differ from one another very slightly, and show only a few verbal changes of the traditional kind from the known printed texts. Accordingly, we give here (as being more interesting) the earliest text we have seen — one which is never alluded to in the controversy over the authorship of the literary ballad — from One Hundred and Fifty Scots Songs, London, 1768.



Excerpt from The British Traditional Ballad in North America by Tristram Coffin 1950, from the section A Critical Biographical Study of the Traditional Ballads of North America

The Child Sir James the Rose ballad is not in America. The American texts are highly sophisticated and based on Sir James the Ross, a song Child, IV, 156 thought to have been composed by Michael Bruce. Barry, Brit Bids M?, 290 i, citing Alexander Keith (editor) in Greig's Last Leaves of Traditional Bids, points out that both the Ross (not in Child's collection) and Rose (which Child printed) ballads are derived from eighteenth century broadsides and stall copies and that Michael Bruce is mistakenly considered the composer of the former. He also points out on Keith's authority that the Ross version has ousted the Rose in Scotland and that his American copy of Ross is identical with the 1768 and oldest known Scottish (150 Scots Songs, London, 1768) text of the story. His version being that old and well established in oral tradition, Barry therefore rates the Ross texts as a primary, rather than a secondary, form of the story in America. Also see MacKenzie, Bids Sea Sgs N Sc, 48. MacKenzie's A version is particularly sophisticated. The Pound, American Speech, Nebraska version does not differ materially from the northern texts.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Richie
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 02:05 PM

Here's another source:

Ten Songs from Scotland and the Scottish Border
by Anne G. Gilchrist
Journal of the English Folk Dance and Song Society, Vol. 3, No. 1 (Dec., 1936), pp. 53-71

Sir James loves Matilda, whose father bids her wed Sir John the Graham. The lovers meet at their trysting-place, and Sir John's brother, Donald, craftily hides himself in the underwood " to overhear what they would say." Donald attacks Sir James with insulting words and stabs at him with his sword, crying- "This for my brother's slighted love- His wrongs sit on my arm! "
(A curious phrase.) Evading him, Sir James cleaves Donald's head with his sword, and as he tumbles down,

"a lump of breathless clay,"
"So fall my foes," quoth valiant Ross,
And stately strode away.

Then the Graham clan is roused and the ballad ends in a double tragedy. For the whole ballad (twenty-seven double verses) see " Sir James the Rose," Last Leaves of Aberdeen Ballads, lxiv, p. I37.

There are two distinct forms of this ballad. The one selected by Child begins-

O heard ye of Sir James the Rose
The young heir of Buleighan ?
For he has killed a gallant squire
An's friends are out to tak' him.

But Child rejected as too "literary" the one which became most popular in Scotland and most widely sung, which is here represented. It is rather curious that in the forty years since he died so many traditional copies of this rejected version, sung
to their traditional tunes, have been noted. It has been attributed to the Scottish poet, Michael Bruce, amongst whose papers it was found, but it now seems possible that it was merely revised, after the fashion of the time, by him. The earliest printed text known of this supposed " Bruce " copy appeared in One Hundred and Fifty Scots Songs, London, 1768, the year after Bruce's death at the age of twenty-one. This collection contained several ballad texts, and Dr. Keith, who transcribes this copy in his Last Leaves of A berdeenshireB allads, concludes that both the version preferred by Child and the "Bruce" form have been derived from stall copies, broadsides, and other prints of the second half of the eighteenth century. The copy found amongst Bruce's papers was further revised by John Logan, Bruce's untrustworthy friend, who unblushingly claimed the authorship of several poems now almost certainly known to be Bruce's.

The basis of each form of the ballad (of which Child's version is the most savage) is the slaying of Sir Donald Graeme by Sir James the Rose, the betrayal of the fugitive, and the revenge of the Graemes by killing the slayer of their clansman. In Child's text, taken from a stall copy of I780 in the Abbotsford library, Sir James' sweetheart, to whom he has fled for hiding, betrays him to his enemies who are hunting for him, and afterwards, stricken with remorse, disappears for ever from human ken. In the ballad which has ousted this version in Aberdeen and elsewhere, the treachery is transferred from Matilda to her faithless little page, who discloses Sir James's hiding place. After defending himself bravely he is slain, and Matilda draws out the sword still sticking in his side, falls on the point, and dies on his body.

This second version is a long ballad of about fifty verses, found almost complete, and not much corrupted, even after its emigration with Scots folk to Nova Scotia and Maine. See W. Roy Mackenzie's Ballads and Sea-Songs of Nova Scotia, (where
a modal tune is also given for the ballad), and British Ballads from Maine (edited by Barry, Eckstorm, and Smyth).

In Child's text the scene is located in Perthshire, at Bulechan; in Aberdeen copies, on the banks of the Ugie above the Abbey of Deer, where the saugh-tree (willow) where the lovers met used still to be pointed out by the singers of the lovers' fate. The hero is called both James the Rose and James the Ross, and as there were distinct clans of both Rose and Ross in Scotland, the confusion increases, and it seems doubtful whether there is any historical foundation for the story, though it was printed as an
" Ancient Historical Ballad "-the " Bruce" version-in the Weekly Magazine and Edinburgh Amusement, 1770.

It is certain that this version was widely known and sung in Aberdeenshire, and also in New Brunswick. Dr. Keith prints in Last Leaves six tunes and variants, and had obtained seven others-variants of his Tune I. In Johnson's Museum, vol. iii, p. 280, is a variant, set to " Hardycanute," and another tune is in R. A.

Smith's Scotish Minstrel, ii, 30. And none of all these tunes fits Child's version, which, as will be seen, is in a different metre, though Christie has a tune for it in his Traditional Ballad Airs. As for Christie's double tune, printed above, the probability is that it is a combination of two different airs, the first strain being one tune to the ballad and the second, another, according to his habit of " arranging " tunes in eight-line stanza form.-A. G. G.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 05:56 PM

Firstly personally I'm not convinced Keith knew a lot about the history of the ballads. He was heavily influenced by his mentor, William Walker, who at one time supplied Child with material. All of Keith's ballads should be in the Greig Duncan Collection. I have a photocopy of Keith and will have a look when I have time. I know where there is an original copy but it's expensive.

Also Christie should not be relied on for anything. He was a known fabricator, both of tunes and texts.

I have a copy of Smith if that's any use.

Of course the literary versions will be found in oral tradition. Look at Scott's 'Jock of Hazeldean', widely sung, in fact it seems to have replaced the traditional ballad it is based on.

I think what you put on your website should depend on how faithfully you want to follow Child's choices. In my researches 99% of the time he was right even though he had nothing like the resources we now have.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 10:41 PM

Hi Steve,

I'm adding Sir James the Ross as an Appendix to Child's Sir James the Rose. The US versions will be part of 213A.

It seems unlikely that Bruce wrote Sir James the Ross since a nearly identical version appeared in One Hundred and Fifty Scots Songs, London, published in 1768. Michael Bruce's version was not published until after his death in 1770. So I agree with Keith, Barry, and all that Bruce probably got his version from a stall copy.

I think you're right- that Waly, Waly/Water is Wide should also be an appendix since James Douglas is not part of the song, plus the song isn't really a ballad, more a collection of floating verses.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Richie
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 01:31 PM

Hi,

I'm on 214 braes o Yarrow

In Ballad's Migrant it says:

Mrs. Lily Delorme (now deceased) whom Miss Olney visited at the kind invitation of Mrs. Marjorie Porter of Plattsburg , New York, when Mrs. Delorme was living in Cadyville, New York. She sang eighteen Child ... Brothers" (49), "Unquiet Grave" (78), "Willie, of Winsbury" (100), "Braes of Yarrow" (214), "John of Hazelgreen" (293).

Is there a text of Delormes "Braes of Yarrow"? Anyone have it?

Why does Roud give two numbers, is 5838 the Hamilton version "Busk Ye"?

Anyone have text of Elie Siegmeister's "The Dewy Dens of Yarrow," printed on page 40 of Songs of Early America?

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 03:04 PM

There are various literary rewrites of the Yarrow ballads which may account for more than one Roud number.

Richie,
Have you still not got access to Flanders? You really should have access. It would make this project so much easier, not only for the texts but for the notes also. Had you been this side of the pond I'd have lent you my copies. Delormes' version is Vol 3 p257. It has 9 sts. I haven't time to type it out but I can scan it and email it to you if you wish. There is another version of 7 sts from Mrs Belle Richards of Colebrook, NH.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 05:33 PM

Not song info, but there's a picture of Lily Delorme (I presume it's her referred to) at the Flanders' archive at Middlebury: Lily Delorme.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 06:20 PM

Steve, do you mean even the first strains of Christie's tunes are faked?
Bronson included them.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 06:47 PM

Jon,
No. It's almost impossible to say what was and what wasn't faked, so they are simply untrustworthy. Christie reproduced quite a bit of Buchan's texts which are very suspect anyway. My own attitude to this is if the editor is a known fabricator I simply don't trust anything they published. In the same way as I wouldn't accept anything in say Sharp's publications. However one can at least in Sharp's case go back to the manuscripts and rely on this. As far as I know, as with Buchan, there are no manuscripts/field notes for Christie.

At the same time, let us remember that interference with folk material was almost the norm at the time. It had to be tidied up for sale to the middle classes and some editors simply had more imagination than others.

As for Bronson, like Child, he wanted to be as inclusive as possible, and wasn't unduly concerned by reputations.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Richie
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 10:02 PM

Steve please email me Delorme's version at Richiematt@aol.com

Coffin doesn't use Lily Delorme's version in his article which is surprising.

I have Belle Richards.

I know about the Hamilton rewrite circa 1733 "Busk Ye" and I thought that was the reason for Roud giving two entries. What are the other rewrites?

Also what is the difference between 214 and 215 (esp. A B C)? Is it the the name Willie? or the "Willie's fair" verse?

TY

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Richie
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 12:21 AM

Are people confused by No. 215? For example the Roud index, Max Hunter and The Child Collection list this under Child 215:

Fair Willie Drowned In Yarrow- As sung by Almeda Riddle, Heber Springs, Arkansas on October 23, 1965; Recorded by Max Hunter

VERSE 1
My Willie's rare and Willie's fair
And Willie's wonderous bonnie
My Willie has promised he'd marry with me
If he ever did marry with any

VERSE 2
O, Sister dear, I've had this dream
And I fear it means sorrow
I dreamed I was pulling heather green
On th bonnie banks of the Yarrow

VERSE 3
Sister dear, I tell your dream
An' it doth mean sorrow
You'll get letter -- rare it is in
Your lovers' drowned in th Yarrow

VERSE 4
She searched for 'im up stream, searched for 'im down
With much distress an' sorrow
And found 'im where willows grew
On th bonnie banks of Yarrow

VERSE 5
Her hair it being three quarters long
The color it was yellow
She tied it around his middle small
An' pulled 'im from th Yarrow

VERSE 6
Last night my bed was made full wide
Tonight I'll make it narrow
No man shall ever sleep by my side
Since Willie's drowned in th yarrow

By 1970 when she recorded the song for John Quincy Wolfe Jr., she had changed the title to "Banks of the Yarrow." Clearly this is version of 214 with the opening "Willie's rare" verse.

Agree?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Richie
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 12:42 AM

What are the US versions of Child 215?

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 02:57 PM

Richie,
Flanders' notes hopefully will clarify the situation. These 2 ballads are not ones I've had cause to study. I used to have a book 'Yarrow, Its Poets and Poetry' which contained a whole gathering of literary poems inspired by the Yarrow and the 2 ballads. As I'm not interested in literary ballads I gave it away many years ago.

By sheer coincidence, and I don't get out a lot, someone sang 'The Dowy Dens' at a folk event I was at last Saturday.

This sort of thing is happening far too regularly! Spooky!

I'll get the stuff off to you ASAP. I assume you've already checked the Roud Index.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Richie
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:42 AM

Hi,

I'm on US & Canada Versions: 248. The Grey Cock

I'm missing about 4 of the extant US versions; Barry, Creighton, Flanders, and Moore.

Anyone have texts/

R-


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 03:00 PM

I don't have Barry unless it's repeated in another book. I presume by Creighton you mean the 2 versions in Trad S of NS 83, 84. and I have Moore p113 which I'll post in a bit if they're not too long. If they are I'll scan and send. If you want tunes I'll have to scan.

Which book are Flanders version(s) in? I don't think there's anything in ABT.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 06:49 AM

Scanned and sent.


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