How do I sing louder

Subject: How do I sing louder
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 10:26 AM

I have been singing all of my life - church choirboy when a child, folky bands and solo gigs since the 1970s and sessions in pubs most weeks since the 80s.

People have always told me that I am a quiet singer but recently I'm getting comments most weeks from people saying "we can't hear you when you sing". So, I seem to be fading away. I have even been to have my lung capacity checked since I don't seem to have a lot of wind - but, apparently, it is normal.

Are there any practical tips for projecting more and being louder?

Roger

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: matt milton
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 10:33 AM

start doing breathing exercises. Sing from your diaphragm.

work on getting rid of breathiness from your voice (which you'll only really be able to hear by recording yourself). This'll aid projection and clarity.

Combination of things. Really, you need a few sessions with a teacher: too many exercises to adequately describe in an online thread on a discussion board.

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: BobKnight
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 10:39 AM

Singing is essentially shouting in tune - got for it.

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Mr Happy
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 10:41 AM

Are your audients knocking on a bit?

Maybe they're getting a little deaf?

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: GUEST,Felia Nutsack
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 10:53 AM

Megaphone...

and perhaps more in keeping with Trad heritage -

an antique 19th Cent Speaking Trumpet ?

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 11:31 AM

There are so many things this could be.

In the pub, is there background noise? Not just conversation and TV's, but fans, air conditioning, fridges humming, central heating blowing? As people get older, it gets harder and harder to hear voices against such noises.

If your lungs are okay, it is doubtful that you are fading away. Why don't you try some voice lessons and beef up your always-quiet voice.

Don't believe that 'singing is shouting in tune.' That's not true. Shouting could ruin your voice.

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 12:04 PM

I doubt it's a question of lung capacity...more likely a question of how you're using your diaphragm and how you're controlling the air as you move it. For that, you need a professional voice teacher. Inexperienced singers often sing "too high" up in the throat instead of using their diaphragm effectively, and they also tend to expel too much air out of the mouth, thus losing their air supply rapidly.

Your voice will often sound breathy when you do the latter.

Shouting is extremely bad for your singing voice and can eventually ruin it. Whispering is also quite hard on the vocal chords, as is very lengthy talking. Singing, when properly done, does no harm to the vocal chords...but it's good to warm up first by doing some scales or other vocal exercises. It's unwise to sing "as loud as you possibly can", because that can eventually do damage too...better to sing up to about 90% of full possible volume, and let the microphone do the rest. Overusing any instrument will damage it, vocal chords included.

In short: Get a voice teacher. Any good voice teacher can teach you what you need to know in just a few lessons, and can monitor your progress.

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 12:37 PM

That was good, LH.

some simple ideas:

don't cross your legs

don't slouch

if you are on a folding chair, perch on the front edge of it, so your body isn't 'jack-knifed' shut

find a drinking straw. put it in your mouth and suck air in through it. pay attention to how the air goes straight down your body and into your diaphragm. When singing, try to reverse that flow - smooth and from the diaphragm

use this image to get the back of your mouth open - pretend you have put some very hot food in your mouth, but you are at an elegant dinner and don't want to spit it out. What do you do? You open up the back of your throat, letting in air to cool off the food. Now try singing (in the car or while cleaning up the kitchen) while maintaining that open area as much as you can. Certain consonants will close it, so you have to work on it for a while before you get the knack.

When the back of your mouth is open, sound resonates in it and gets richer, louder, and more beautiful.

no matter how many photographs you have seen of pop stars singing while scowling with anguish, don't scowl or frown. That closes everything up. Be open - relax your jaw, raise your eyebrows, smile with your eyes, relax your shoulders. These things aren't just for looks - they have real effects on the sound of your voice.

high notes don't have to be loud. You can sing a high note softly. Practice while cleaning up the kitchen.

==============
I learned these things from people with PhD's in choral conducting.

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 12:49 PM

Some of the advice that you are getting here is not good. Don't shout. That's not projection.
A well-supported voice comes from a release of air by not tensing the facial muscles, good posture, a relaxed stance leaning toward the ball of the toes (like a boxer), allowing the breath to come in without tension, stay in relaxed motion and don't hold anything.
You don't need much air, just enough to go through the vocal cords, but the volume comes through releasing the breath, not forcing it. Rigid tension is the enemy of voice production.
Don't over enunciate because this causes rigidity in the facial muscles which must be fluid and relaxed at all times. Don't stop the air by clipping the sound with consonants.
Hawaiian and Italian voices are strong because of the pure vowel sounds in their language unimpeded by consonants that cut the sound off.

The Alexander Technique will help to acquire the proper relaxation for performance.

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 01:09 PM

Back straight, shoulders back, chin up.
Then
Try what I do in a noisy venue, I slide my capo up 1 fret.

Try it, it works for me on most songs, apart from Carrickfergus, which only works in one key, due to the vocal range of the song.

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 02:43 PM

". . . shouting in tune. . . ."

No, DON'T go for it! That's a good way to damage your vocal cords!

Good breath support, yes. And use your natural resonance. Many opera singers, who, without amplification, must make themselves heard over a full symphony orchestra, have learned how to use the resonance cavities in their own bodies—particularly nasal resonance—which not all that many pop and folk singers do.

But let me be clear:   that's nasal resonance. Feeling the sound in your sinuses and nasal passages, and feeling like you're singing through the "mask"--the front of you face. NOT nasality or "noseyness."

Singing this way can produce a sound that may not be all that loud, but it "rings." And cuts through and keeps going until it runs into a wall.

The late Ferruccio Tagliavini, a light lyric tenor, was famous for his ability to sing lightly and softly, and still make himself heard clearly in the back row of a 3,000 seat opera house--and over an orchestra, yet! CLICKY. He could caress a tone lightly, but due to his masterful breath control and his use of nasal resonance, nobody missed a note or a syllable.

But no matter how you slice it, singing with good vocal technique won't make you sound like an opera singer unless you have that kind of voice. There are a lot of voice students who which it was that easy! But if you DO have a voice with operatic or classical potential, you might have a whole new career ahead of you. Do you have any idea how much an opera singer can make for a single performance!??

There is no easy way to explain this here, without being able to explain in detail and demonstrate. But short of taking lessons from a good teacher (who, contrary to the ideas of many, will NOT make you sound like an opera singer—they will just teach you how to get the best out of your voice), there are a number of fairly good books on the subject.

I might recommend Singing Professionally, by Arabella Hong-Young. She is not an opera singer, but she studied voice at Juilliard, has sung in Broadway musicals, and now teaches at Juilliard. The book is an easy read, and she describes things fairly clearly—at least as clearly as one can without being face to face and able to demonstrate.

But really, a few lessons from a good teacher can make a big difference.

But NEVER force your voice beyond what feels comfortable.   One way to blow your voice out is to shout loudly. How many people come back from watching—and rooting—at a sports event barely able to talk for a few days, because of all their shouting? Much of that sort of thing and you won't have a singing voice.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 03:26 PM

Over 40 years ago, I attended a singers' workshop run by Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger. I remember an exercise in which we were asked to produce vowel sounds (aah!, eee!, ooo!, etc. - sounds really weird, I know!). The idea was to produce the sound from the diaphragm and out through the mouth as 'cleanly' as possible and at moderate volume (can't remember the exact terminology after all these years). I found this simple exercise to be a complete revelation! I realised that, up until that point, I had been using only a fraction of my 'singing potential' (the image that came to me was that I had been singing in a 'cupboard' but actually had a fairly substantial 'church hall' to play with). I've been singing, unaccompanied, in public, ever since. I'll never be the world's greatest singer but I can still stand up in front of an audience with reasonable confidence.

The other tip is to think about your breathing and try to take in the right amount of air at the right point in the song, e.g. ensure you have enough air prior to a high note, or a decoration, or before a passage where taking in a breath would be inappropriate for the song's rhythm. Aim to work out the optimum breathing pattern whilst practicing.

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 03:47 PM

Singing loudly has nothing in common with shouting.
It does, however have a lot in common with yawning. Essentially you need to have a wide open airway and, as stated above you have to use the diaphragm to move the air. The key muscles, strangely, are your abdominals which act like the bellows on a squeezebox. These need to be strong and responsive. leeneia has probably given you the safest advice - remember you're dealing with muscles and these are easily injured.

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 03:52 PM

John has given a good tip. Before the advent of amplification technology many singers cut through the crowds by upping the pitch. Have a listen to old cylinder recordings of unaccompanied singers. The Grainger recordings are available on modern albums.

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 04:27 PM

Thanks for the tips guys - keep em coming.

R

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 04:27 PM

Bear in mind that the type of vocal sound that may sound appropriate in opera or operetta very very rarely sounds right in folk song, and that the denigration of "nasal" singing is purely a matter of style - often the result of long exposure to popular music of the 20s,30s,40s,50s,60s and 70s that preferred a different sound. If people say "nasal" to you say "so what" back to them.

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 05:33 PM

Richard, the word "nasal" in this context does not mean singing "through your nose," a la some Country and Western singers. "Nasal resonance" means something quite different.

This is why I said that it is diffiicult to explain things like this in a post--without the possibility of demonstrating what is meant, which a good voice teacher would be able to do.

The concept of "nasal resonance" has to do with projecting the tone produced by the vocal folds into the natural resonating cavities of one's body, such as the sinuses (nose), as well as the mouth and throat.

Let me put it this way:   A guitar has not only strings, which produce the pitches and basic tones, but a resonating chamber (that big funny shaped box that the strings are attached to) which amplifies and projects the tone produced by the strings.

Same idea with the human voice.

But if your throat and general vocal mechanism is tense or constricted, the tone has no place to resonate and dies about six feet in front of you.

By the way, starting a singing practice or session with a couple of good yawns is a very good idea. Opens the mouth and throat, relaxes the larynx, and prepares your lungs to operate efficiently.

But understand the difference between "nasal" (as in "resonance") and "nosey."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: stallion
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 03:44 AM

Yawning.....yup....try yawning different notes

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 04:10 AM

I agree with stallion but with one caveat: blow your nose first or the people in the front row will be in for a shower.

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 04:16 AM

SRdB: I do not know you, have never to my knowledge heard you sing. The one question I have is this: do you open your mouth? I mean OPEN your mouth? That to me seems to be the greatest difficulty people have when it comes to voice projection. Seems so simple, but it is also very hard to do. All the people who can successfully sing to hundreds or even thousands of people (without a microphone) open their mouths. Bernice Regan, Odetta, Pavarotti--they have/had one thing in common: they project, and part of the reason they do so is 'they open their mouths'.

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Ross
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 05:21 AM

Join a choir

There's loads of types about

They are cheaper than singing lessons

And you can sing as loud as you want

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: matt milton
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 05:55 AM

joining a choir isn't the same thing as having singing lessons AT ALL. if anything, if you're singing incorrectly, joining a choir might make you WORSE.

I sang in choirs at school and university, and thought I was a good singer, and really enjoyed it. I always thought that having a bit of a knackered voice afterwards was just evidence of having had a good old sing. how wrong I was...

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 07:13 AM

Making an audience isn't necessarily a matter of volume, it can be (and more often than not is) a question of tone.
A hard(ish) tone can be heard by a listener far more easily than can a broad, soft, warm one.
This can be achieved by (sometimes only a slight) tightening of the throat muscles.
MacColl's excercises, as Shimrod describes, were developed by him originally for Theatre Workshop and later adapted for The Critics Group. They are 4 basic vowel-like sounds, with two more added for fine tuning and half-a-dozen singing exercises for tonal experimentation, articulation, breath control, singing at speed and the handling of unusual intervals (large and small).
All these were designed to make actors/singers concious of how they were producing their voice and by this, learning to control it.
They take a short time to learn and master, and once learned, they stay with you for a lifetime; they are also useful in everyday life.
My family, on the male side, have a hearing problem: my grandfather, my father and his brothers, and now me - damn it!!
When my grandfather became deaf everybody shouted themselves hoarse trying to make him understand what was being said. My father found, by accident, that by tightening his vocal muscles, he could make him hear perfectly without shouting.
Incidentally, tonal lightness and slackness is one of the technical problems (among others) caused by 'head-voice' (breathinss) in some womens' singing - almost impossible to project.
Good luck.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 08:53 AM

Jim just aced another aspect of it. Nice one.

(That's another reason it's good to keep these old farts around: they know stuff the rest of us forgot or never knew.)

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: mandomad
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 09:14 AM

I can't offer any help, Roger. I just seem to be getting louder as I get older. I don't think I even needed a mike much during our days in Sticky Wicket! I can still manage to top the audience noise during our Tuesday eve sessions in The Elsinore in Whitby (which are going from strength to strength). It's just unfortunate that my voice isn't the most musical!

    mandomad

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 09:16 AM

Hi Tony

As I recall, I had mic and you didn't - and you were still louder! Happy days.

Rog

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 10:27 AM

"That's another reason it's good to keep these old farts around"
My farts are quite audible as well!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Marje
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 04:22 PM

Too much information, Jim ...

Roger: I really think a few singing lessons would help to make sense of all this advice. There is nothing quite like one-to-one tuition for helping you to really focus on the way you're making the sound, and how to control it.

Failing that, there are (in the UK at least) many choirs now of the "community" or "folk" choir type, and most of these will open every session with some time spent on singing exercises, similar to the type used by MacColl (above). This makes an amazing difference to the quality and volume of the sound produced by people who do not normally think of themselves as singers. Conventional choirs don't tend to do it much, but they should. If you get the chance to join a choir of this type (or a singing workshop, say, at a festival)that would help.

Another thing: can you speak loudly and clearly? Can you project your voice to speak across a crowded room? I know someone who, as a teacher, can do this perfectly well, and yet when she sings, her voice is almost a whisper. I'm encouraging her extend the way she uses her speaking voice, and to try to apply this to singing.

Not sure if anyone's said this, but don't (for now) sing with a guitar, and don't sing peering down at a song-sheet. Both of these can really inhibit voice projection. Don't let anything come between your song and the people you're singing it to.

Marje

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Slag
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 07:08 PM

Arch your eyebrows! Sound silly but it helps. Study what other singers are doing. Another thing is be aware of your microphone. Frank Sinatra was a master of using the mike to his advantage. Your audience doesn't need to hear your intake of air or other incidental noises. You can subtly shift the direction away from your mouth for a moment and most folks won't be aware of what you are doing but will appreciate the quality of your vocals. Bringing the mike in closer or away will also effect your vocals. If you have a mixer, have a good one as someone who knows and understands THAT craft, can have a profound effect on your singing. Let your mixer do the "LOUDER"!

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 08:57 PM

If you sing too loud, you're not going to be able to sing in tune - so be careful what you wish for.

I have a loud singing voice, and I credit it to five years of work teaching boating at a summer camp in Wisconsin. I had to control twenty boats, scattered over a lake that was a mile across - and I couldn't sound stressed or scared. Out of necessity, I learned to sound relaxed and calm at a very high decibel level. I had only one injury in five years - the boss's daughter, who didn't believe she had to listen to me.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 11:23 PM

Joe, Joe, Joe.

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 11:32 PM

She was cute, though....first blonde I ever had a crush on.

Oh, wait - we were talking about singing louder, weren't we? Well, get yourself a mile-wide lake full of kids in rowboats, and a boss with a beautiful blonde daughter; and you'll be all set.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 12:29 AM

Yo, Joe, muh man.

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Gurney
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 12:59 AM

My voice is getting quieter, too as I get older.
Stand up. Your voice is automatically louder than when you are sitting.
Practice in different keys until you find the best one for you in any particular song. Hard in choirs, eh?

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 02:10 AM

She was only the bosses daughter....

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 02:35 AM

By louder it should be assumed that what's really wanted is a "fuller voice." Many inexperienced and/or untrained singers get a rather "thin" voice by trying to do it all in their mouth. A "full voice" depends on getting the whole vocal tract, including the deepest parts of the lungs, into the act.

A good practice would be to join a good (not small church amateur) choir. Even better would be some practice with a small "close-harmony" group like a barbershop quartet. When you "hit the spot" in close harmony, you should "feel the resonance" all the way down to your belly, and the hair on your legs will quiver - accustoming you to what you're looking for.

You might try some "echo chamber" practice - which might be in your shower if the resonance is right, or in something like an empty gymnasium or parking garage. Pick a note in your easy range, and sustain it while you try to feel it "down there." GET IT OUT OF YOUR HEAD and into your chest (heart) by opening things (throat and chest) up as much as possible. You'll feel it inside when you begin to get it.

The muscular action to practice is similar to what you do when the cutie in a bikini walks past on the beach. Chest out (tits up), but don't try too hard at sucking in the belly. Open all of the throat.

Once you get the full chest sonance (full vocal tract all working) you should be able to get "as loud as you want" without blowing out a candle held six inches in front of your mouth, since "loud" requires no more breath than any other noises you make.

Lots of the effectiveness of a "thinnish" voice is wasted in high harmonics of the pitch you're singing, which also tend to be "nasal" and otherwise disagreeable, and using the resonance of the full throat and lung volume will usually also give emphasis to the lower harmonics, giving a more "pleasing," "fuller," and more intelligible voice.

Like anything else, this can be overdone. If you work too hard at it you might "go operatic" in ways that might not be suited to the songs you sing - so if that's applicable, just don't get carried away(?). Loud isn't difficult, and shouldn't really be any harder on your oxygen balance or your vocal chords than weakly squeaking, if you open up right.

John

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 10:31 AM

An afterthought - forgot to mention the Bert Lloyd grin.
When I first saw Bert perform (all those years ago), I was a little taken aback by the somewhat inane grin which appeared on his face when he sang some songs
He had quite a light voice - the grin (actually a grimace) was a device he used for producing a clean, hard, carrying tone when required.
It works - try it.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 02:10 PM

Most "quiet singers" I have heard have a handicap that jinxes them from the start...they are in too low a key for their voice. A lot of people try to sing in the same pitch they use conversationally, and that pitch is designed for low volume with no interference or competition from other sounds, like guitars etc. For me, D is probably the best key, but of course the melody line you are singing has to be considered so you know you can reach all the higher notes. If you are sounding quiet, I would suggest you try to transpose one or two keys higher and see how you feel about it.

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 03:43 PM

Roger

I've heard you sing many times - last time in Harrogate a year or so again.

Unless something has dramatically changed I neither see you having a quiet or loud voice. When I used to go to Hull/ Beverley things Mick had a BIG voice but most people don't. Singing in places like the Sun Inn and others were quite hard if it was noisy. I had a very quiet voice in those days and so I'm guessing that peope probably thought I was lip-synching to a track they couldn't hear.

An odd question perhaps but how is your hearing? You are a little bit older than me but not much but my hearing has changed over time.

When I was at university years ago I got both ears blocked so badly with wax to the point that I couldn't hear at all. During the time that was going on I had not the least idea of at what volume level to speak at and people kept saying "what did you say?" and me going "pardon" and them going "sorry" etc etc

If I remember in Sun singarouonds you could project as well as most and knew all the 'project to the back of the room' stuff.

I met Richard Bridge in Beverley and it struck me that he has quite a projecting voice. I'm not sure whether he sees himself as having that. Mine comparatively is quite quiet - sit down and mumble job :).

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Nick
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 04:30 PM

Sorry last one was me on other computer

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: open mike
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 07:03 PM

microphones help you to not strain your voice...especially if you are trying to sing "over" instruments....but this may not work in an acoustic music circle type setting....unplugged, i mean.

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 04:25 AM

Nick

Thanks for the feedback. It is useful to get that from someone who has been in sessions with me.

My hearing is shot but then it has been for about 40 years - I wear digital aids in both ears to compensate (partially) for loss of high frequencies and have done for about ten years. So, I don't think that anything has changed on that front.

I'm not aware of a projection problem myself but, as I said in the opening message, have had several comments from different people that they struggle to hear me - perhaps I am playing my instruments louder nowadays!

Roger

Subject: RE: How do I sing louder
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 07:14 AM

"My hearing is shot...."
When my hearing began to go I was advised by a fellow Scouser to get a "Liverpool hearing aid".
On enquiring I was told "hang a piece of wire over your ear and everybody shouts".
Jim Carroll