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BS: Russian helicopter-gate

Sawzaw 28 Jun 12 - 09:19 AM
Ebbie 28 Jun 12 - 12:29 PM
Sawzaw 28 Jun 12 - 10:56 PM
Sawzaw 04 Jul 12 - 09:02 PM
Bobert 04 Jul 12 - 10:16 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 04 Jul 12 - 11:54 PM
Jack the Sailor 05 Jul 12 - 01:00 AM
Sawzaw 06 Jul 12 - 04:50 PM
Sawzaw 07 Jul 12 - 09:59 PM
Sawzaw 08 Jul 12 - 08:37 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 08 Jul 12 - 10:56 AM
Green Man 09 Jul 12 - 08:16 AM
Tangledwood 09 Jul 12 - 06:38 PM
Jack the Sailor 09 Jul 12 - 07:04 PM
Tangledwood 10 Jul 12 - 07:45 AM
Sawzaw 30 Oct 13 - 01:43 PM

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Subject: BS: Russian helicopter-gate
From: Sawzaw
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 09:19 AM

I was invited to start a thread on this subject.

I wonder if anyone is opposed to their tax money being spent to support Russian workers rather that American workers.

For example a single mother making $9 per hour? Keep in mind that 40% of every dollar spent by the government is borrowed and the kids of this single mother will have the responsibility of paying it back with interest someday.

Russia fulfills helicopters delivery to Afghanistan
Xinhua | 2012-6-28 17:23:24

Russia has completed delivery of 21 helicopters to Afghanistan and looked forward to sign contracts on more vehicles shipment, the state-owned arms exporter Rosoboronexport said Thursday.

"The last three helicopters have been shipped," deputy head of the company Alexander Mikheyev told reporters on the sidelines of the Engineering Technologies-2012 Exhibition in the Moscow region.

These helicopters, made in Russia's Kazan and Moscow, were equipped with arms to carry out special anti-terrorism tasks in Afghanistan, Mikheyev said.

"In effect, the helicopters obtained a new face," he said, adding that Rosoboronexport expected that 10 more helicopters could be ordered by Kabul.

Rosoboronexport shipped Mi-17B5 helicopters to the Afghan armed forces in line with a $900-million-US-dollar contract signed in May 2011 with the US Defense Department.It was the first Russia-US contract on supplying military production to the third country.

I object. This appears to me to be some sort of political payoff at the expense of the American worker.


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Subject: RE: BS: Russian helicopter-gate
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 12:29 PM

I deleted a long cut-and-paste rather than posting it because it appears that I have found only "opinion" pieces instead of official papers.

I would note that I'm most awfully tired of "-gate" items.


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Subject: RE: BS: Russian helicopter-gate
From: Sawzaw
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 10:56 PM

I did not choose the title.

U.S. military criticized for purchase of Russian copters for Afghan air corps
washingtonpost.com > Business > Business Policy
By Craig Whitlock
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, June 19, 2010

The U.S. government is snapping up Russian-made helicopters to form the core of Afghanistan's fledgling air force, a strategy that is drawing flak from members of Congress who want to force the Afghans to fly American choppers instead.

In a turnabout from the Cold War, when the CIA gave Stinger missiles to Afghan rebels to shoot down Soviet helicopters, the Pentagon has spent $648 million to buy or refurbish 31 Russian Mi-17 transport helicopters for the Afghan National Army Air Corps. The Defense Department is seeking to buy 10 more of the Mi-17s next year, and had planned to buy dozens more over the next decade.

The spectacle of using U.S. taxpayer dollars to buy Russian military products is proving a difficult sell in Congress. Some legislators say that the Pentagon never considered alternatives to the Mi-17, an aircraft it purchased for use in Iraq and Pakistan, and that a lack of competition has enabled Russian defense contractors to gouge on prices....

No bids???


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Subject: RE: BS: Russian helicopter-gate
From: Sawzaw
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 09:02 PM

Pentagon Defends Buying From Russia Trader Aiding Assad
Bloomberg


The Army has taken delivery of nine of the helicopters for Afghanistan, with six more awaiting shipment and another six to be delivered by May 31. The U.S. has an option to buy an additional 12...
Each complete helicopter package costs $16.4 million, according to Army data...


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Subject: RE: BS: Russian helicopter-gate
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 10:16 PM

Sniff...

No one paying any attention to Sawz...

How's it feel to have people ignore the heck outta you, pal??? Crappy???

Well, here's an idea...Don't be an Obama-hatin' Republican???

(Sawz thinking, "Hey, why didn't I think of that???)

Sawz and think??? Not likely to happen...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Russian helicopter-gate
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 11:54 PM

Well, Sawzaw has a point....if we're going to sell killing machines, why not make them here, so at least the workers can buy a Solyndra solar panel!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Russian helicopter-gate
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 01:00 AM

Wow. This thread sure has legs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Russian helicopter-gate
From: Sawzaw
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 04:50 PM

Hey Bobert, I did exactly what you told me to do. Is that somehow wrong?

Truth is you don't give a shit about the single mother making $9 and hour or you would object to the US sending money work to Russia while short changing American workers. Very unfeeling and unpatriotic of you.

And it is amazing how you ignore things by reading them and commenting on them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Russian helicopter-gate
From: Sawzaw
Date: 07 Jul 12 - 09:59 PM

U.S. Buys More Russian Helicopters for Afghanistan

The Pentagon is buying ten more Mi-17 helicopters for the Afghan military from Russia's state-run weapons broker Rosoboronexport, the company confirmed on Thursday.

"I can confirm to you that we have indeed been approached by the U.S. Defense Department about the purchase of ten Mi-17s," Rosoboronexport spokesman Vyacheslav Davidenko told RIA Novosti.

Davidenko declined to disclose the value of purchase, but Rosoboronexport signed a $367.5 million deal with the United States in May 2011 for delivery of 21 Mi-17V5s.

The latest sale is the option part of the 2011 U.S. Army contract with the Moscow-based defense equipment holding, for twelve more helicopters.

The Pentagon is also reported to have bought two Mi-17s earlier this year.

The total value of the deal including engineering services and spare parts could be around $900 million, according to U.S. officials.

The Pentagon has been under pressure over its dealings with the company after U.S. Senator John Cornyn accused the firm of selling arms to the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

Senator Cornyn sent a letter to Defense Secretary Leon Panetta earlier this week calling Rosoboronexport "an enabler of mass murder in Syria" and called for sanctions against the company.

Pentagon spokesman George Little said Washington "understood" Cornyn's concerns, but said the helicopters involved were the best option to allow Afghan forces to "take on their own fights inside their own country."

Rosoboronexport was subject to U.S. sanctions from 2006 to 2010 over its arms sales to nations including Iran and Syria.

U.S. State Secretary Hillary Clinton said on Tuesday Russia was sending attack helicopters to Syria, a claim dismissed by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, who accused the United States of arming rebels fighting against Assad's rule.

Pentagon spokesman George Little said has confirmed that Syrian government forces were using "helicopter gunships against their own people," but added that he was not aware of a new shipment of attack helicopters from Russia to Syria.

Syria is one of Russia's major weapons clients, and Moscow has opposed proposals for an arms embargo on Damascus, saying this would give rebel forces an unfair advantage in the conflict.

Hey Bobert: Don't you think that $900 Million should go to Americans like the single mother making $9 per hour or you more concerned about the well-being of Romney's dog?


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Subject: RE: BS: Russian helicopter-gate
From: Sawzaw
Date: 08 Jul 12 - 08:37 AM

What with American Government outsourcing, which is under big media blackout, maybe that single mom should invest some of that $9 per hour in Russian Hellicopters.

Yep, Obama the outsourcer strikes again.


Russian Helicopters Pays 25% Net Profit Dividend


Shareholders in Russian Helicopters, which designs and manufactures civil and military rotorcraft, voted to pay dividends for 2011 worth 25 percent of the company's IFRS net profit, the company said in a statement on Thursday.

The company will pay dividends for last year at 5.15 rubles ($0.16) per share excluding profit from revaluation of shares in subsidiaries as of the end of 2011. Russian Helicopters made no dividend payments in 2010.

Russian Helicopters made a 2011 IFRS net profit of 7 billion rubles ($233 million), up 12.7 percent year-on-year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Russian helicopter-gate
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 08 Jul 12 - 10:56 AM

Utter peanuts against US support for the Chinese economy. Any capitalist should know the dollar's going to go where the labour's cheapest. Just another sign that America's lost its grip on the world.


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Subject: RE: BS: Russian helicopter-gate
From: Green Man
Date: 09 Jul 12 - 08:16 AM

Russian Helo's are robust and easier to maintain. This may have something to do with it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Russian helicopter-gate
From: Tangledwood
Date: 09 Jul 12 - 06:38 PM

- End user agreement. Even close allies don't get full access to US military technology.
- After sales service. Possibly not wanting to be locked into long term maintenance contracts.
- Fleet commonality. Get more of what they already have in preference to retraining pilots and engineers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Russian helicopter-gate
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Jul 12 - 07:04 PM

It looks like you have the answer Tangledwood.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/us-defends-purchase-of-attack-helicopters-for-afghanistan-from-russian-arms-company-supplying-syrian-regime/story-e6frf7lf-1226393819754


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Subject: RE: BS: Russian helicopter-gate
From: Tangledwood
Date: 10 Jul 12 - 07:45 AM

Thanks Jack, lucky guess.


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Subject: RE: BS: Russian helicopter-gate
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 01:43 PM

(Reuters) - The Pentagon has opened a criminal investigation of an Army aviation unit that awarded tens of millions of dollars worth of contracts to Russian and U.S. firms for maintenance and overhaul of Russian-made helicopters, according to people familiar with the matter.

The investigation, which has not been made public before, is led by the Defense Criminal Investigative Service. Investigators are examining potentially improper payments by the Army aviation office to contractors as well as possible personal connections between members of the Army unit and the contractors, said the sources, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The maintenance deals are part of a broader Defense Department program that is buying and overhauling Russian-made Mi-17 helicopters for use by Afghanistan. The aircraft are being purchased by the Pentagon from a Russian manufacturer through Russia's powerful state-owned arms dealer, Rosoboronexport, which isn't a focus of the criminal probe. The Pentagon has touted the program - budgeted at approximately $1.1 billion for acquisition of the latest set of choppers - as the quickest way to beef up the Afghan Air Force's special mission wing before U.S. troops withdraw next year.

In addition to the criminal probe of the maintenance and overhaul contracts, investigators with the office of the Special Inspector General for Afghan Reconstruction are also said to be looking at the much more lucrative helicopter-acquisition program. The unit cost of the new helicopters has escalated dramatically in recent years, according to watchdog groups and government documents, from around $10.5 million each in 2009 to $19 million today.

Phil LaVelle, a spokesman for SIGAR, said the office is "in the preliminary stages" of its probe and "is working with other federal agencies relating to the purchase of Mi-17 helicopters for the Afghan government."

Lawmakers in both houses of Congress have demanded the Pentagon halt its dealings with Rosoboronexport, in part because the Russian firm supplies weapons to the government of embattled Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

Rosoboronexport officials didn't respond to requests for comment. In an interview with Russian news agency Interfax on August 23, Rosoboronexport general director Anatoly Isaikin said some Congressional members' opposition to buying Mi-17s through his firm "is a vivid example of lobbying for the national industry's interests," referring to U.S. defense contractors cut out of the lucrative helicopter deals.

In an Aug 5 letter to General Martin E. Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, 13 U.S. Senators wrote that they had "deep concern over your support for the ongoing Department of Defense procurement of helicopters from Rosoboronexport," given the "real risk of both Russian corruption in these deals and overreliance on a potentially hostile power."

The criminal probe could deal a further blow to support for the Mi-17 program.

FOREIGN PARTNERS

A focus of the current investigation, officials said, concerns ties between the former chief of the Army's Non-Standard Rotary Wing Aircraft office in Huntsville, Alabama, and two Russian-owned subcontractors, Avia Baltika and St Petersburg Aircraft Repair Co, or SPARC. The firms are independently owned and not controlled by Rosoboronexport.

More Here


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Mudcat time: 24 October 1:48 PM EDT

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