Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??

Subject: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: srothman
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 08:53 AM

Apparently so, according to Spiral Earth.

Agog at this news I checked her out on YouTube. Now aghast.

Rave reviews from respectable sources on her website. Am I missing something?

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: matt milton
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 09:10 AM

Well, she has a manner of singing which you'll either really like or find intensely annoying.

(I would say much the same thing about: Peter Bellamy, John Jacob Niles, Ewan MacColl, Alex Neilson, Morrissey)

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: Continuity Jones
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 10:07 AM

I love her two albums, the second one was a real surprise after the long gap, but it's excellent. She may not be too polished, but give me her over, well, over some shiny pop thing I don't like, any day. For me she's considerably more interesting than the usual pretty young (and old) things.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 10:33 AM

She came to Packie's birthday do a few months back, and I must say I really enjoyed what she did, both playing and singing. Enjoyed hanging out with her, too! (So did Packie.)

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 10:43 AM

I think she's great. Idiosyncratic, real, and a million miles away from the endless succession of pretty little girlie voices that get churned out on the "folk scene" conveyor belt. (Not to say there aren't some pretty little girlie voices that aren't pretty good too. Just not many, that's all!).

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 12:11 PM

Srothman - I can find nothing to that effect at Spiral Earth. Can you give a link?

I crossed paths with Elle in Massachusetts a dozen years ago and really enjoyed her. I can see that she'd not be to everyone's taste, though.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: srothman
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 12:53 PM

Becky: My mistake - on her website I saw: The Spiral Earth Awards 2012 have just nominated Elle Best Female Singer! and I dashed off excitedly to YouTube before reading further that this was a nomination, not an award.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: foggers
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 01:03 PM

hmmmm. I find myself underwhelmed. I hear better, powerful and more moving female voices at singing sessions in Sheffield. I do not envisage queuing up to see her live; but then chaque a son gout.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: srothman
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 06:09 PM

I'm even more aghast that the worst anyone has said of her in this thread is that "she's not to everyone's taste" (the ever diplomatic and sublime performer, Bonnie Shaljean); "not too polished" (Continuity Jones) and least an underwhelming from foggers.

But I can't decode the normally perspicacious Greg Stephens' idiosyncratic ... real.

Are we suspending disbelief here? Her singing is atrocious - at the level of the ubiquitous hopeless floor singer that has to be encouraged at your average folk club.

I am always heartened when traditional music gets a public hearing and, to her credit, Ms. Osborne is making a valiant effort to do that. I also concur with Martin Carthy's dictum that "the worst you can do to a folk song is not sing it."

But how does E O deserve the accolades that are coming her way? Do her tuneless interpretations of some wonderful songs reveal any of their hidden depths? There's no adventurous use of musical technology and only scratchy Grade 1 fiddle as accompaniment.

An ameliatorive justification of her singing might be is that it is "mannered" - which Matt Milton seems to suggest - but the examples he gives were proper singers, if affected in style. He might also have included the wonderful John Boden.

So, Singer of the Year? I don't think so.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: Continuity Jones
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 07:15 PM

Well, it's a matter of taste. John Boden does nothing for me. I was trying not to mention names as there's little point just being negative. For whatever reason, Elle's voice draws me in where some others, perhaps more celebrated and note perfect bore me.

Give me Nimrod Workman over Loreena Mckeenit any day of the week.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: foggers
Date: 30 Jun 12 - 01:00 PM

srothman - I was being polite... and I am a mistress of litotes.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: GUEST,Sean Breadin (Sedayne / Suibhne)
Date: 30 Jun 12 - 02:12 PM

srothman -

This has to be most distasteful & idiotic thread to appear on Mudcat for some time. It's basically one disgruntled grunting troglodytic troll hurling abuse around on a subject they obviously have no clear understanding of, much less do they possess the general wit & sensitivity to know that if you don't understand (or like) a thing then the best thing to do is leave it well alone, take a step back, go back to what you feel comfortable without plastering your destructive & hurtful ignorance all over the message boards.

IMHO - what Elle does is uniquely Elle; her singing & instrumental work are of a standard that you might call exquisite, opening up areas few have even dared consider, let alone venture into. She does so with a deft, beguiling & visionary touch that resonates with Folk idioms past, present & future. An acquired taste? Well in my experience the best things in life invariably are, and uniquely and idiosyncratically so. This chimes in with not only her well-deserved critical acclaim, but also her integrity & authority with respect of The Tradition. For sure, she doesn't sound like your average MOR Baby-Boomer Revivalist Floor Singer, but her singing is such that it commands the respect of a whole new generation of other great singers (none of whom sound like your average MOR Baby-Boomer Revivalist Floor Singer either) from The Woodbine & Ivy band and singers, including us (Rapunzel & Sedayne), Sproatly Smith, Hannah Peel, Phil & Cath Tyler (who feature on her latest album), and dozens more you won't have heard of. Her cover of Bellamy's setting of Kipling's Way Through the Woods on the OAK ASH THORN album is one of the key points in recent developments in Folk - a true landmark indeed - and her rendering of The Leaves of Life on The Woodbine & Ivy Band album is every bit as authoritative as anything that went before. What you hear in Elle's voice is what you hear in Bellamy, Shirley Collins, and yet further back to old singers themselves. Not for nothing is she appearing at The Green Note on Monday night. I just wish I could be there...

So - go read the reviews and think to yourself what it is you might be missing out on before coming on line and spewing your idiotic and reactionary folk-bile all over the place if only to betray your ignorance on what this music is actually about. Are you missing something? Damn bloody right you are - and our gain is obviously your loss.

Sean / Sedayne
(aka Jack Blandiver - the Mucatter still known as Suibhne O' Piobaireachd / Astray until my request for a name change is honoured, here posting as himself for reasons of essential critical transparency)

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Jun 12 - 02:35 PM

Sedayne has said all the things I was thinking of saying about Elle Osborne but really couldn't be arsed in the face of such appalling ignorance spewing forth from srothman. A minimal amount of research would have revealed that Elle Osborne was at one time mentored by Barry Dransfield who would definitely not waste his time on another fiddlesinger lacking supreme talent. I'm glad Sedayne mentioned the Green Note gig. I'll certainly be there on Monday, it's far too long since I last saw this amazing artist.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 05:28 AM

Totally in agreement with Mssrs Stephens and Blandiver and Ms Echo. Some of us don't want their folk music served up like aural baby rice but would rather have something with a bit more guts and grit. And she can sing and play. Oh yes.

Listen to her version of Barry Dransfield's The Handsome Meadow Boy here

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: matt milton
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 07:05 AM

To be fair to the OP, on her first album her singing and playing is very flat in places. Not "bluesy" flat, or sliding up to a note flat: just plain off. I imagine she herself would probably agree. That's not true of her subsequent recordings.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: Continuity Jones
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 07:14 AM

I love that first album. I don't care at all if it's not Simon Cowell perfect. Thank Christ it isn't. It has energy, individuality, charm, warmth, humour....

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: Commander Crabbe
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 07:22 AM

I'm with foggers on this. I have heard better.

Then again, i've heard far worse as well.

Hey, if she's nominated, good luck to her but give me Muireann Nic Amlaoibh any day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ooFHRI5U8w

Sorry but the blue clicky maker wont work.

CC

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 08:05 AM

Here's your blue clicky, CC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ooFHRI5U8w

Which is all very nice I suppose, but tell me, what has this got to do with Elle Osborne? Futile comparisons, chalk and fecking cheese, and utterly irrelevant besides. It's like me coming on and saying I never liked Hendrix overmuch because he didn't do much by the way of Barque Oboe Sonatas. In life we do good to cherish the differences and celebrate the uniqueness of what truly gifted & creative visionary people have to offer. And best we cherish Elle for doing what she does in the name of Folk, thus offering hope for a genre that is mired in MOR identikit blandness from the bottom up and pays little respect to the Tradition it supposedly emerged from. Elle does pay respect to the Tradition, using it to empower something very special indeed and well worth cherishing.

Enough with the aural baby rice already, eh? This music matters.

*

but really couldn't be arsed in the face of such appalling ignorance spewing forth from srothman

Me too, BE; I left it a few days but srothman's last post urged me to make a stand - not just for Elle, but for the Tradition she represents which is sadly all too absent from the Folk world today - even in the work of many of those who do pay lip-service to The Old Singers, what comes out falls into the category of Aural Baby Rice to confirm the worst myths of the last 50 years of a scene that invariably turns its back on its greatest assets.

No one has to like everything, but to post here in the name of some Absolutist Taste is just noxious in the extreme. Sadly, in many areas of folk, such Taste Fascism is the order of the day. Mmmmm - baby rice! The blander the better... None of that nasty Marmite...

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: srothman
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 11:17 AM

Hello again Sean / Sedayne / Blandiver.

You can insult me as much as you like but to bracket EO with Peter Bellamy and Shirley Collins - now that is an insult and defames their peerless legacies.

And if we're exchanging epithets then I would counter your accusation of absolutism with the charge of vanguardism, which (as in your case) is usually articulated in the manner of someone with parental alienation syndrome. Your assessment of me is intemperate, judgemental and full of wild surmise. You presume that I'm reactionary whereas I am open minded about avant-garde movements in the arts and I respect their proselytisers, many of whom have sprung to Elle Osborne's defence. Fair enough, my initial deprecation of her singing was unsubtle but that ought not to make me a taste fascist, as you delicately put it.

And OK Mr Cringe, I checked out The Handsome Meadow Boy recorded on your own label and admit you did a good job on her voice in the studio. But there are also examples on your website of her singing live and the contrast couldn't be starker.

And while showing respect to those whose tastes are different to mine some of the comments there look suspiciously like euphemisms:

those who are interested in that sort of thing .... ragged .... modern dewiness .... astringency .... timbre flickering and quivering

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: Commander Crabbe
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 11:38 AM

Thanks for the blue clicky.

The only thing it has to do with EO is that I would pay to see Muireann even though she hasn't been nominated for singer of the year.

Like I said good luck to her.

CC

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 12:51 PM

OK Mr Cringe, I checked out The Handsome Meadow Boy recorded on your own label and admit you did a good job on her voice in the studio. But there are also examples on your website of her singing live and the contrast couldn't be starker

For the record, Elle recorded that album independently and co-produced it. I just licensed it from her for release - I had no creative input. Believe me, that is a good thing!

The general consensus is that she's actually a more compelling live performer than recording performer.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: GUEST,raymond greenoaken
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 01:40 PM

>And while showing respect to those whose tastes are different to mine some of the comments there look suspiciously like euphemisms:

those who are interested in that sort of thing .... ragged .... modern dewiness .... astringency .... timbre flickering and quivering<

They strike me as valiant attempts to express why EO doesn't necessarily meet the expectations generally associated with newer female singers on the scene. Good thing for some, bad thing (clearly) for others.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: TheSnail
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 06:52 PM

Elle gave us a great evening at the Lewes Saturday Folk Club when we booked her a couple of years ago. Both she and Shirley Collins are booked for the Lewes Folk Festival in October.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: GUEST,A Concerned Party
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 12:04 AM

I think that, whether someone is to our taste or not, we have some obligation to being civil. Regardless of whether someone flickers, quavers, or even has phrasing and tonal issues, no harm is done, and it isn't appropriate to behave as if the sky is falling.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: r.padgett
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 04:14 AM

I am sure that Elle would love to be voted Singer of the year.

That is something totally outside of her control

Talents are god given and artists use them to their best ability for the entertainment and appreciation of everyone

Folk music will continue to develop and artistic styles will change

I have a vested interest of course having known Elle for many years and still work at Saltburn with her dad Glen a greater bloke you would never ever find!

Ray

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 05:07 AM

Anyway, far more to the point than some of the comments on this thread, anyone in the London area who fancies it should get down to the Green Note tonight, where Elle is playing with her trio (Elle singing and fiddling, Bela Emerson on cello and Adam Bushell on percussion). It should be a great night. Details here.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 09:02 AM

I've not actually heard of her before..
But now I've read all this I'll definitely google up some audio clips.

For what it's worth, most of my favourite singers would fail all showbiz TV singing talent contests.

In fact many notable charismatic creative performing artists who've captivated me over the last 4 decades,
have by any orthodox music tuition standards
absolutely shite quality singing voices....

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 09:19 AM

When I heard her (live, informally in Packie's front room from a couple of feet away a few months ago) I loved the - what I can only describe as - dark earthy quality in her voice. I also love that she plays with a cellist, one of my fave-ever instruments, and am so sorry I can't get to her gig tonight.

I also remember her as a young child - Packie & I used to play at the club her grandparents ran, and we stayed in her folks' house. (I even remember their gorgeous huge furry dog...!) It was hearing the artists from the folk club that inspired her own love of the music, she told me. If there's a more perfect illustration of what that process is all about, I couldn't tell you what it is.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 09:46 AM

I can't get to the Green Note, but I suppose I ought to thank srothman for persuading me to listen again to Elle Osborne's CD So Slowly Slowly Got She Up, where I can't find any of the faults which srothman seems to think are so glaringly self-evident. What I do hear is an example of skilful phrasing and clear articulation which gets to the heart of the songs she sings. Her voice breathes life into her material, so that 'Three Score and Ten' stands out as the disturbing lament it should be, instead of a jolly chorus song. She takes some risks, but these pay off by the intense focus she puts on getting the story across.

I don't expect that everyone will react the same way, and srothman is perfectly entitled to express an opinion; I just wish that opinion could have been expressed with more civility. It feels very unpleasant to subject any artist to such a rude tirade.

Matthew

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 04:40 PM

Some ones having a laugh. So am I.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 06:31 PM

Laugh? Me too. The Emperor's New Clothes springs to mind

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: Zimmerman
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 08:54 PM

Hats off to the OP, who seems to have touched a raw nerve judging by the way the nu-folk brigade have ganged up on him.

By any objective standards Elle Osborne is a pretty dismal singer. Proper vocal technique isn't always the main thing - take punk for example, or Leonard Cohen - but unless you've got the chutzpah they had you'd better be pretty good.

But there's something else about her that makes me feel queasy, namely her apparent sense of entitlement that she is the guardian of the tradition and can do with it what she likes.

A cursory Google search reveals her to be a singing teacher in East Sussex. I hope anyone seeking tuition in those parts has the good sense to audition her before parting with their money.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 08:59 PM

She is burp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And comes from a long line of burps all of whom are or were experts at conning people.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 03:19 AM

This thread now needs to close, please, mods. It was always likely to become dodgy when it was opened for the expressed intent of slagging a performer off. The latest additions are beneath contempt, particularly the last one from the anonymous guest: you only have to replace the word 'burp' to see exactly what unpleasant territory we're getting into.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 10:28 AM

Elle is a great singer and a gorgeeous woman too

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 02:47 PM

so some anonymous pissfwit typed a few pathetic comments late last night....

nah, ignore the twat..

We're surely mature and robust enough not to need this thread closed down
just because it attracted the attention of 1 solitary insignificant venomous arsewipe.

Anyway...

Eventually got round to listening to tracks at Folk Police;
despite tech problems with buffering and "File not found" alerts..

"The Handsome Meadow Boy" - didn't like it;
bloody irritating drums and half baked arrangement & production.
Her more out of tune notes were made more glaringly obvious
clashing against the rest of the band accompaniment.
I'd prefere to have heard her sing this solo.

"My Coffin Shall Be Black" - liked it;
arrangement has a bit more substance and bollocks to it.
Drums are less irritating.

She's got a kind of voice I like.
But think a band setting probably highights her pitching idosyncracies..???

To be blunt, and as anathema as this is to most here,
there may be a positive case to be made for subtle use of 'autotune',
or at leat re-recorded 'drop ins',
for odd individual notes at her CD recording sessions...

Live of coures, should be a different warts and all experience,
But now she's gaining attention, tracks recorded for commercial posterity
might need a little 'gentle' post-production tweaking ???

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 02:59 PM

Threads like this are pointless. In the end, it all boils down to personal taste - and where that's concerned, there are no rules.

Getting away from the performer in question, take two other performers who form my (fairly) extreme like/dislike: (1) Richard Thompson (2) Frank Sinatra.

For me

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 03:04 PM

Threads like this are pointless. In the end, it all boils down to personal taste - and where that's concerned, there are no rules.

Getting away from the performer in question, take two other performers who form my (fairly) extreme like/dislike poles: (1) Richard Thompson (2) Frank Sinatra.

For me, RT can do no wrong, but good friends of mine can't stand him - don't know what he's about. Those same friends adore Frank Sinatra. I can't stand him - never have, never will.

What does all this prove? Nothing - other than that we each have different tastes! As it happens, I agree with punkfolkrocker about Ms. Osborne - but so what? Others like her, and why shouldn't they?

(apologies for truncated last post)

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: Elmore
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 04:08 PM

Attn: Will Fly. Just gave Elle a listen, and she's neither a Richard Thompson nor a Frank Sinatra. More like somebody in the audience during a sing along who throws everyone off key.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 04:36 PM

Yes - I've had a listen to Elle. She's not my cup of tea, but I can appreciate why her voice and its character appeals to some people. In the same way, I don't really personally care for the sounds of Jacques Brel or Charles Aznavour - yet at the same time I can see how these voices might find a responsive chord in other listeners.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: Continuity Jones
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 05:52 PM

Christ. Is this still going on? If you don't like her, just don't listen to her. Why feel the need to come on here and slag her? There are plenty of threads about other musicians - perhaps some you may feel more positive about. She didn't even win the supposed award anyhow, she was just nominated. I bet she's read this and questioned the value of that nomination. Getting slagged anonymously. What joy.

People have different voices, not all are note perfect and saintly. Margaret Barry. Jeannie Robertson. I love what Elle does. Autotune? Simon Cowell would be proud. I see she wears glasses too? Well, she'll have to lose those to get accepted. Maybe wear something a little more "feminine".

Just do what you do Elle. It's your music and your life. I dread the day you get dragged into AO MOR acceptance. We have enough extremely boring note perfect dullards as it is.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 06:24 PM

ok.. just to repeat what I already made enough.

I LIKE HER VOICE from the little I've just listened to.

But as an obviously maverick talent with a wayward relationship with conventional pitching,
she does herself no favours singing against fixed pitched instruments
and a backing singer in a band arrangement.

To be even blunter, I don't think the MOR inclined backing band are very good.

I'd more probably enjoy hearing her perform solo with minimalist self accompaniment, or none at all.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 06:36 PM

"ok.. just to repeat what I already made explicit enough."....

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: srothman
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 07:43 PM

Will Fly: You're a guitarist - stick to what you know.

Continuity Jones: I think the reason this thread is still alive is to do with the nu-folk tendency that Zimmerman alluded to. It's got a high profile among the chattering classes who are glad to be able to pontificate about a niche genre which the majority know nothing of and care less about.

I can only say again that Elle Osborne and her ilk are dabbling at the fringes of the tradition and offering precious few insights.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 02:14 AM

She is burp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And comes from a long line of burps all of whom are or were experts at conning people.

......................

twat!

someone else said it, cant be arsed looking for it to quote it, but if you dont like her stuff dont listen to it ... its as simple as that,this thread is pointless really, and I wonder what poor Elle would feel if she saw it. I for one prefer her Testimony to her new stuff ... but hey ho, she is a lovely woman and an original , we should treasure people like her, not run her down.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 04:07 AM

Will Fly: You're a guitarist - stick to what you know.

Mmm... after singing as front man, solo and in several bands, over 45 years, I might just know a little more than you think. I don't choose to sing very much on YouTube videos, as it happens, but those videos bear little comparison to the live music I perform. Of which you know nothing.

What I do know, after reading your pearls of wisdom here, is that know-it-alls such as thee are to be avoided like the plague.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 04:27 AM

I wasn't going to add anything more to this sorry thread but am prompted to add a couple of things.

1. What is the point of starting a thread with the sole intention of slagging off a performer? Won't you feel better telling us about something you DO enjoy, rather than letting rip at a young woman whose only crime is to make music you don't enjoy?

2. Everyone has the right to an opinion, and everyone's taste is different. However (though you wouldn't know it from some of the pathetic sniping on this thread), it is possible to express a negative opinion about someone's music without being offensive and obnoxious about it. It's especially pitiful when many of those comments seem not to be about the music itself, but about whatever opinions people have formed about the musician's supposed character, integrity and motivations.

3. Whilst I'm sure Elle has broad enough shoulders to be absolutely fine with the fact that she's not everyone's cup of tea, I can't help wondering what she might feel reading some of the shittier stuff that's been written here. I think it would be good if people who want to spend their time telling the world how much they don't like her music should bear in mind that this is a real human being under discussion, not some cyber-cypher.

*********************************************************************

Srothman: who is this 'nu folk tendency' you speak of? Who are the representatives of the'chattering classes' present on this thread? Greg? Matthew? Bonnie? Sedayne? Continuity Jones? Me? I don't think so! And in any case, this sets up some sort of artificial pecking order between 'true believers' and everyone else... last time I looked folk music wasn't a religion! And for the record, 'nu-folk' (horrible term that it is) is usually used to describe people like Mumford and Sons who play various sorts of acoustic pop.

Srothman again: I can only say again that Elle Osborne and her ilk are dabbling at the fringes of the tradition and offering precious few insights.

Out of interest...

Who is Elle's 'ilk'?

What are 'the fringes of the tradition'?

What is 'the' tradition? Is there only one?

What do you have to do in order not to be 'dabbling at the fringes'?

Who, in your view, is not 'dabbling at the fringes'? It might be useful to have some reference points.

Even if the notion of 'dabbling at the fringes of the tradition' had any validity, is it possible for someone who has been immersed in folk music since they were a tiny kid to be 'dabbling at the fringes'?

Read this for a more thoughtful insight on the matter: Waking the Muse: Elle Osborne.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 07:56 AM

Good post, Spleen - just come across this but that was exactly what I was gong to say - but probably not as politely, Personally, I think that the only people who are damaging folk music are the intransigent boring old farts who think they own 'The Tradition' (meaningless phrase) and believe that they can dictate how it is presented and enjoyed. It's people like Elle who are taking folk music forward, presenting it in new and exciting ways to a new audience. And a big thanks to Spleen and others like him who have enough foresight and love of the music to bring it to us with his fantastic label.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 08:40 AM

Absolutely fair play to Spleen for putting his money where his mouth is and supporting the music he believes in and likes.

If only more people would.


I certainly wish Elle (and Folk Police Records) good luck.

Subject: RE: Elle Osborne - Singer of the year??
From: greg stephens
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 01:08 PM

Well, the good thing about this thread is it will undoubtedly have encouraged a good few people to listen to Elle and make up their own minds. You may be very agreeably surprised.
And the bad thing about the thread? Well, anyone who has read it will have noticed the answer to that. The internet is unfortunately(sometimes) open to all.