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Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK

gnu 02 Jul 12 - 07:18 PM
Jack Campin 02 Jul 12 - 07:33 PM
GUEST,Blandiver 02 Jul 12 - 07:38 PM
pdq 02 Jul 12 - 07:45 PM
gnu 02 Jul 12 - 08:34 PM
Jack Campin 02 Jul 12 - 09:26 PM
Leadfingers 03 Jul 12 - 12:10 AM
GUEST,leeneia 03 Jul 12 - 01:49 AM
GUEST,Blandiver 03 Jul 12 - 04:57 AM
GUEST,Blandiver 03 Jul 12 - 05:09 AM
GUEST,Blandiver 03 Jul 12 - 05:38 AM
Musket 03 Jul 12 - 05:39 AM
GUEST,Blandiver 03 Jul 12 - 05:48 AM
GUEST,leeneia 03 Jul 12 - 08:45 AM
GUEST,John Foxen 03 Jul 12 - 09:26 AM
John P 03 Jul 12 - 09:51 AM
Geoff the Duck 03 Jul 12 - 10:58 AM
Long Firm Freddie 03 Jul 12 - 11:05 AM
Bonzo3legs 03 Jul 12 - 01:16 PM
GUEST,kenny 03 Jul 12 - 02:15 PM
GUEST,bankley 03 Jul 12 - 02:15 PM
Will Fly 03 Jul 12 - 02:26 PM
GUEST,Frug 03 Jul 12 - 02:43 PM
GUEST,leeneia 03 Jul 12 - 03:32 PM
GUEST,Blandiver 03 Jul 12 - 03:32 PM
GUEST,Blandiver 03 Jul 12 - 04:09 PM
gnu 03 Jul 12 - 05:53 PM
GUEST,Geoff T 04 Jul 12 - 12:40 PM
GUEST,kenny 04 Jul 12 - 01:20 PM
GUEST,leeneia 04 Jul 12 - 03:32 PM
Lonesome EJ 04 Jul 12 - 04:32 PM
GUEST,Geoff T 05 Jul 12 - 04:55 AM
Geoff the Duck 05 Jul 12 - 08:56 AM
GUEST,leeneia 06 Jul 12 - 12:49 AM
gnu 06 Jul 12 - 03:51 PM
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Subject: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 07:18 PM

Yes, I know you can search this on YT or wherever. But, I have a question. Is this a demonstration of what can be done with an instrument in the hands of a virtuoso that may inspire our young?

I provided an audio verion of this performance to a young lady flute player many years ago and she was entralled. Unfortunately, we lost touch. I have always wondered if it had a lasting impact on her that led to anything.

Jethro.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 07:33 PM

A compilation of assorted rather simple cheap tricks. The beatbox attacks are the only bit I find at all impressive (i.e. the only bit I can't do easily).

It kinda demonstrates the opposite of what you're saying - that you don't need to be anything remotely near a virtuoso to produce a theatrically effective act, if you plan it right.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 07:38 PM

Ian Anderson ripped his floute act off Rahsaan Roland Kirk anyway & Rahsaan WAS speaking about Tradition. Listen to Rahsaan & listen to the truth - not just dreary jerk-off commercial showmanship. Here's a start...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ2i74FXhCk&feature=related


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: pdq
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 07:45 PM

Ian Anderson's flute playing was an integral part of Jethro Tull, just as Jerry Garcia's guitar playing was essential to the Grateful Dead.

The total affect these groups had on their audience was greater than anything most Jazz or Folk players could even dream of.

Judging them out of context is very short-sighted.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 08:34 PM

Jack... he musta planned it right... making millions of coin?

Blandiver... I googled that and couldn't find any support for your statement. Please support your statement.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 09:26 PM

The way Kirk gets those changes in tone colour is wonderful.

And no I don't suppose he made millions at it.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: Leadfingers
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 12:10 AM

Its NOT too difficult to play any instrument (Assuming some level of competence) so as to impress the audience , and Anderson may well have borrowed some of Roland Kirk , but he took it to a different level in a different music field , and was certainly an innovator.
Snide comparisons are NOT good , no matter how competent you are - Or is it a touch of jealousy creeping in ?


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 01:49 AM

Thanks for the link, gnu. I knew nothing about Anderson till you posted.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 04:57 AM

I googled that and couldn't find any support for your statement. Please support your statement.

It's well a known fact that Ian Anderson's flute act was copied wholesale from Roland Kirk - he openly admitted it and even dumbed down Kirk's Serenade to a Cuckoo on the first Tull album. Rahsaan Roland Kirk was uniquely gifted genius who celebrated what he called The Black Classical Music of the American Jazz Tradition - even after his debilating stroke he still continued to tour & record, even up to his death in 1977 at the tragically young age of 42, playing better with one hand than many could do with two - Ian Anderson included, natch, who is no flute player, just a gimmickly prog-rock showman serving up his tricks to legions of adoring fans. In this, as in many issues of cultural injustice, Rahsaan's cry was Why don't they know? Well, just have a look around on YouTube you'll find plenty of evidence. Besides, the flute was only one small part of Rahsaan's armory - more likely you're going to come across him blowing the ballsiest tenor saxophone you'll ever hear, or else playing three horns at once, such as on this classic clip from 1969 where he takes the soul standard I Say a Little Prayer to the outer reaches of possibility. And yeah, he was blind. As Charlie Mingus said 'This man is what Jazz is all about.' But be sure - Rahsaan dug deep, paid his dues, and testified to the beauty of The Black American Tradition and came back with the goods.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uRnvMwD6jM


PS - I might add that I was brought up with the music of Jethro Tull, whose first three albums I still regard as classics; likewise the Living in the Past anthology, bits of Aqualung and all of Thick as a Brick (and perhaps 70% of Passion Play for personal reasons). I even recently bought the Isle of White concert DVD (Nothing is Easy) which captures the band in 1970 at their blistering best (the early take of My God especially, though I could do without the flute solo). After that something went wrong with Ian Anderson's voice and I found I couldn't listen to them. Certainly by Songs from the Wood his voice was so shot & the music devoid of its rooted earthy bluesy human folkiness that was so much of its appeal. I swear as a kid were I found musical heaven & epiphany in the multitracked modal flutes of Witches Promise, but aged 9 I honestly didn't know any better.

Go forth. Seek. And LISTEN.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 05:09 AM

PPS

Anderson may well have borrowed some of Roland Kirk , but he took it to a different level in a different music field , and was certainly an innovator.

Anderson didn't take it to any level, much less was he an innovator. He ripped off Kirk & quickly reached the requisite standard of vapid prog-showmanship to impress his clamouring public (even as the music went up the tubes - witness the bombast of the Bursting Out live album; compare Sweet Dream with the original) and that was it - end of. I know for every disciple of Rahsaan Roland Kirk vainly crying "Why don't they know?" in the cultural wilderness there'll be 10,000 Jethro Tull fans stomping them into the dust. But Truth is Truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enjkGjRxjkU


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 05:38 AM

PPPS - Maybe I meant New Day Yesterday.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: Musket
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 05:39 AM

Too old to rock & roll, too young to die.

Too old to remember what folk is, too young to admit it.

Jethro Tull is / was folk, mainly because I perceive it as being so. QED.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 05:48 AM

Tull's Folkiness comes out to late-60s Zeitgeist in which various folk idioms were absorbed into the popular idiom as a whole, allowing creative units the freedoms which gave rise to some truly startling musics whose resonance is still being felt today. Stand Up is a classic in this respect, where the blues is cross-polinated with English modal sensibilities giving rise to some astonishing things. This is FOLK as an creative idiomatic phenomenon, and that line-up of Tull were the evident masters of it as can be seen at the Isle of Wight footage from 1970, which I'd have no hesitation whatsoever in calling FOLK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BJoLD6eG-4

NB - Fans of Ian Anderson's flute will find lots to like here, as an extension of his vocalising and as part of the music it works a treat, but as a solo vehicle it's just vapid showboating. IMHO.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 08:45 AM

"H"?


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: GUEST,John Foxen
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 09:26 AM

Ian Anderson's folkiness certainly comes out in Heavy Horses which could be considered a great folk rock album.
Equally Roland Kirk was considered by certain jazz critics to be just a vapid showman - a sort of Ian Anderson of jazz.
But those critics could come very badly unstuck. In his book Some Of My Best Friends Are Blues, Ronnie Scott recounts how the British musician and writer Steve Race was in Scott's club when Kirk was playing. He'd slagged Kirk off quite heavily so Kirk courteously invited him up on stage to play piano for him - then played his heart out and left Race for dead. As Scott says: "Kirk was a clown who could play Hamlet."


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: John P
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 09:51 AM

I saw Jethro Tull a couple of years ago. Ian Anderson's flute playing was exquisite. Way better even than when we were young. I've been playing professionally all my life and I've played with some very good flute players. Ian Anderson was brilliant. I don't much care how he got there or who influenced him. Saying he copied his act from someone else is like saying the Beatles copied their act from Chuck Berry.

As for whether Jethro Tull is folky, some of the albums, and many songs on other albums, sound much more folky to me than 90% of other singer/songwriter music I hear. What sets these Tull songs apart from most other singer/songwriter material for me is that they have a distinct flavor of traditional music.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 10:58 AM

I have never understood the compulsion some regulars at Mudcat have to attack any performer who is popular.
The question asked was whether a particular video clip might inspire youngsters, not if we thought that Ian Anderson is the most brilliantly accomplished flute player who ever existed.
Would the style of playing inspire? It inspired me, although not to play flute.
Ian Anderson was clearly inspired by Roland Kirk to play flute in that particular way.
Whether it would inspire a particular young flute player would surely be up to them, but if they never heard either players, it isn't going to be part of their experience, so won't influence at all.
As for accusations of "cheap tricks" or "showboating" - he is the frontman of a rock band. That is the job description! The big flute solos date from an era where most other rock bands had a guitar or Hammond organ doing exactly the same sort of long semi improvised solo. Hardly a crime!
Quack!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 11:05 AM

On the Jethro Tull website Ian Anderson acknowledges his debt to Roland Kirk and explains how his own style evolved (including the standing on one leg bit):

Tull

Tull are one of my all time favourite bands, especially live.

Cheers

LFF


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 01:16 PM

I saw Jethro Tull around 1968 at the London Marquee, when they were supporting Taste. What astounded me far more than his amazing flute playing - which frankly leaves any folky flute players on a distant planet, was his wearing of a thick overcoat in that heaving club where the temperature was not far off 100F!!

Of course Ian Anderson plays folk.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 02:15 PM

Geoff the Duck - with regard to your first sentence, they have a word for them in Ireland which sums them up perfectly.
"Begrudgers"


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 02:15 PM

I saw Tull several times in the early 70s. They were always really exceptional.
I also got to see Roland Kirk about 5 nights in a row at the Esquire Showbar in Montreal. I was friends with the piano player, so I had a seat at the band table beside the stage, and got in free. I'm glad I wasn't sitting in front because he sprayed spit all over. The man was a force of nature, sometimes playing 3 horns at once. He was a master of rotary breathing and could exhaust an audience with a 20 minute non-stop solo. good times all around. R.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 02:26 PM

In my BBC days, I used to drink in the Coach & Horses in Poland Street, London WC1. As I walked up Great Marlborough Street for my mid-day pint(s) (left into Poland Street), I regularly saw Ian Anderson lounging against the wall or sitting at a table, reading the paper and chilling outside the pub. Eventually, we got into conversation, and he seemed a regular and genuine man. No airs and graces, no being full of himself. Quite honest about his music and his work.

I never cared for Jethro Tull, but IA himself appeared to be an OK bloke.

Just my personal experience.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: GUEST,Frug
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 02:43 PM

Folk ?? ....... ain't never seen a horse play a flute.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 03:32 PM

Of course, a lot of rock is the spectacle. I listened to the flute playing on the link, sure, but I took with a grain of salt the goofy hair, the sweat, the anguished inhalations.

Pure theater - here is a MAN, and he's suffering!

Wikipedia says that in 1992 his daughter started studying flute, and she told him he was fingering wrong. He listened to her and changed his ways. Maybe she got him to play in an ergonomic fashion, and that helped alleviate the suffering. I dunno.

By the way, my MIDI program can simulate the sound of a flutist inhaling. It used to be considered a fault, but now I guess it's cool.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 03:32 PM

I'm not attacking anyone, just pointing out a few truths. I hope I made it clear that I'm a bit of a old Tull Head. The flute issue is secondary to my main grudge with Tull which is that Ian Anderson lost his original sonorous Fylde coast folk-blues bellow & developed the horrid nasal whining that came in around the time of Minstrel in the Gallery & hasn't gone away. The flute was always a gimmick, but worked beautifully as a voice in the ensemble dynamics of the band - especially when Clive & Glen were the rhythm section as in the My God clip.

For sure, many Jazz critics levelled the same accusations of showboating against Rahsaan (and continue to do so today); Sun Ra is likewise dismissed as a charlatan and showman. I see both as Tricksters & Shaman, that they were also masters & advocates of their respective traditions goes without say. Stories are told of Rahsaan and Sun Ra (Rasun and Saan Rah) meeting in the subway after late night sessions, though what these two musical giants has to say to one another is anyone's guess, though they were both great talkers & riddlers in performance. Rahsaan is one of the few musicians who could circular breathe on the flute whilst playing the recorder up his nose at the same time. How is that even possible with surgery? For Rahsaan it was all about the sound; he was blind, he couldn't see the visual effect of his musical armoury, he was just doing what he heard in his dreams. To compare him to Ian Anderson is like comparing Art Tatum to Liberace or Seamus Ennis to Riverdance.

To be spat over by Roland Kirk. Dear God - for those of us without religion that would be akin to baptism.

I once trod barefoot in a pool of Lol Coxhill's spit after a solo gig once. Not quite the same, but not as bad as slipping (again barefoot) in the conjealed gob on the Heart of Midlothian one blistering day during the fringe when I was running to catch Ivor Cutler..


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 04:09 PM

PS

"H"?

Of course! Humble, Honest, Handy, Hintelligent, Hinformed, Hinsightful, Herudite, Hexperienced...


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: gnu
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 05:53 PM

Yes, there is a lot of Tull that is folk... old Trad influenced and mixed with rock. Minstrel, if you will. And, of course, some contend the first heavy metal. Not where I was going initially with this thread but quite appropriately discussed.

At times, Tull (again, not the subject of this thread) has disgusted and amazed me. 40 albums. Disgusting lyrics and yet lyrics that simply transcend me. That's what it's about? No? As for Tull, both thumbs up.

Now, as for the initial post, good and bad reviews so the jury is still out I guess.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: GUEST,Geoff T
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 12:40 PM

"an instrument in the hands of a virtuoso"

not a patch on Matt Molloy - try this for size!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtSjM3YU7Qw


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 01:20 PM

He's not trying to do the same as Matt Molloy, nor vice versa.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 03:32 PM

An excellent response, Blandiver - I refer to H. I know almost nothing about Jethro Tull. Till 1999, I thought Jethro Tull was one guy.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 04:32 PM

Yeah, that's right. He invented the seed drill. This rock thing was just a sideline, leenia.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: GUEST,Geoff T
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 04:55 AM

guest K - granted!

Is there one of these emoticon beasts for 'tongue in cheek'??!!
GT


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 08:56 AM

Just a thought! To what extent does Virtuoso Playing actually inspire? By most current definitions, a virtuoso is someone who plays beyond the level most of us could hope to reach.
Don't we get more inspired by the thought that we might be able to reproduce what we hear?
Maybe "tricks" which make us sound more clever players than we actually are will mean we continue to practice, and in doing so actually learn enough technique to then improve beyond?
Quack!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 12:49 AM

I consider this performance more inspiring. He starts with a Bourree by Bach and then improvises. It's interesting to get the idea of the piece and then to hear what he does with it.

I consider it a real improvement over a long sequence of buzzes, twitters and runs up and down the scale.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilthkJRmiLU&feature=related


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Subject: RE: Ian Anderson flute solo... NOT FOLK
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 03:51 PM

Thanks, leeneia.


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