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BS: Quitting drinking

GUEST,I don't care to sign my name to this 03 Jul 12 - 07:25 PM
GUEST,Eliza 03 Jul 12 - 07:55 PM
Elmore 03 Jul 12 - 08:09 PM
Ebbie 03 Jul 12 - 08:22 PM
Big Al Whittle 03 Jul 12 - 08:27 PM
michaelr 03 Jul 12 - 08:36 PM
Charley Noble 03 Jul 12 - 08:45 PM
DebC 03 Jul 12 - 09:05 PM
Wesley S 03 Jul 12 - 09:45 PM
gnu 03 Jul 12 - 10:21 PM
Jack the Sailor 03 Jul 12 - 10:55 PM
Nigel Paterson 04 Jul 12 - 02:59 AM
Dave Hanson 04 Jul 12 - 03:59 AM
Dave Hanson 04 Jul 12 - 04:01 AM
Megan L 04 Jul 12 - 04:18 AM
Will Fly 04 Jul 12 - 04:24 AM
alanabit 04 Jul 12 - 04:36 AM
Leadfingers 04 Jul 12 - 04:38 AM
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ChanteyLass 04 Jul 12 - 07:36 AM
Backwoodsman 04 Jul 12 - 07:48 AM
ranger1 04 Jul 12 - 07:50 AM
jacqui.c 04 Jul 12 - 08:00 AM
freda underhill 04 Jul 12 - 09:45 AM
SINSULL 04 Jul 12 - 10:02 AM
The Sandman 04 Jul 12 - 10:11 AM
JohnInKansas 04 Jul 12 - 10:14 AM
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GUEST,GUEST,I don't care to sign my name to this 18 Jul 12 - 06:45 PM
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GUEST,GUEST, I don't care to sign my name to this 09 Aug 12 - 05:00 PM
Ebbie 09 Aug 12 - 07:37 PM
Big Al Whittle 10 Aug 12 - 02:16 AM
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GUEST,GUEST, I don't care to sign my name to this 17 Aug 12 - 08:59 PM
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Elmore 03 Sep 12 - 11:41 AM
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Subject: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,I don't care to sign my name to this
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 07:25 PM

Soooo, what helped you quit?


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 07:55 PM

I haven't had a drink problem, but I know someone who did. They were greatly helped by Alcoholics Anonymous, and followed the Twelve Step Programme. I don't believe you can tackle alcoholism on your own, you need support and encouragement. Also, having a serious liver condition can frighten someone into finally quitting. I believe one also needs to detach from boozing pals and keep away from pubs etc where temptation lurks. As you decline from signing your name, are you personally addicted, or was your question merely a more lighthearted posting? If the former, I wish you well. Any addiction is a frightening and depressing condition.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Elmore
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 08:09 PM

Quit?


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 08:22 PM

As the manager of this apartment house I've had a number of tenants sit and talk. One man told me of how he handled the quitting. He's been dry now for more than two years. He goes to AA regularly, plus he goes to a local church for reinforcement.

As it happens, his roommate is still drinking; he tells me that he doesn't hassle her about it. He says that as long as she doesn't bring it home he can live with it. He said that he told her that when he sees a bottle he thinks of it as being poison, as clearly as if it had a skull and crossbones on it. Which, he said, is what it is to him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 08:27 PM

I go through periods of being greatly depressed, and drinking has always been my recreational drug of choice.

And basically theres no situation that drink can't make worse. Once I start drinking, I drink too much.

My longest period without a drink was about three years. When i get in that zone, I can recognise that I don't have a good relationship with booze and I'm better off without it - the booze part of the supermarket looks like a dangerous bog that I can fall into and i avoid it.

At the moment (tonight) - I haven't drunk for two weeks. I haven't yet got the point where I can keep whisky (my favourite drink) in the house, because I know I will drink it. There is vodka , cider wine, beer in the house for our guests - nut it doesn't tempt me - not in the way that whisky would. I don't know if that makes me an alcoholic. The AA webpage scares me shitless - so I know it won't be for me.

I was in a pub last night, and I think I got through the eveming pretty well. At one stage the wine the guys were drinking at my table beckoned to me. The whisky bottles on the shelf winked flirtatiously - but I primly removed their hand from my knee - and said I'm a good girl, you don't get round me that easily!


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: michaelr
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 08:36 PM

I'm no quitter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 08:45 PM

If you recognize drinking as a serious problem, it's time to stop.

It's not easy but I've seen at least one good friend manage to do it and emerge as human. And he's still fun to be with. I'm not at all sure if he'd still be around if he had continued drinking. He also stopped smoking...

Good luck in taking the next step.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: DebC
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 09:05 PM

I have a number of friends and relatives who are recovering. Some had a crisis (or hit bottom as they say in AA), one decided to quit drinking to lose weight and discovered how unhappy he was after a month of sobriety. Another had a DWI (OUI) and quit that night and hasn't taken a drink since. My cousin was at death's door 30 years ago and he has been going to AA ever since.

I applaud anyone who decides to stop drinking for whatever reasons.

It is recognising that there is a problem and that's the first step.

Debra


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 09:45 PM

I was sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Send me a PM anytime if you want to discuss it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: gnu
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 10:21 PM

I know who started this thread and it's no lark, Eliza. This person is very serious about asking this question. This person asked me if they should even bother starting such a thread and I replied that it couldn't hurt. Reading the posts so far, I think it may have already helped and I hope any future posts help. Helps not just this person, but anyone who reads this thread.

BTW... it's a matter of life and death according to the doctors.

Good luck buddy. I am pulling for ya. You can do it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 10:55 PM

AA, is the best advice I can think of. Time tested, tried and true.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 02:59 AM

I went to AA for about six months...didn't say a single word the whole time, but I DID listen. I knew I had a problem before I went, but just being there helped me put my drinking into perspective. Essentially, I drank less than some & more than others...I'd "Found my place in the queue". That was more than thirty years ago...thirty-plus years sober...wouldn't swap it for anything, not even a bottle of ten year old single malt!!
                                                          Nigel.

PM for more info.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 03:59 AM

Giving up drinking is easy, I do it every day, actually I don't have a drink problem, I drink, get drunk, fall over, no problem.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 04:01 AM

If there's no beer in heaven,
I think I'm gonna stay right here.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Megan L
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 04:18 AM

My grand father great grandfather and great great grandfather all had alcoholism written on their death certificate as one of the causes of death. For generations the males of my fathers family were alcoholics who beat their wives and allowed their children to go hungry. I will always be grateful that my father was a man, man enough to say this has to stop and it stops with me.

I cannot give advice but I can give encouragement YOU can do this. Look around your area at what help may be available different things help different people. One thing to remember you don't have to do this forever "Today I will not drink" the longest of life's is not made of years but of many todays.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 04:24 AM

I've never had any problem with drinking or smoking. I gave up smoking in 1970 and have never had a cigarette since. I like a glass of wine or beer and have a cupboard filled with bottles of this and that - I have a tot occasionally.

What I do know is that, if I had to stop drinking alcohol for any reason, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I wouldn't miss it. I'm convinced (and I've said this before on Mudcat) that a predeliction for addiction to drugs of any kind - tobacco, alcohol, hard drugs - is genetic. Some of us don't have the gene - others do. That being the case, the addiction is not curable - it can only be alleviated - which is why attending groups run by AA (for example) is incredibly important, and why those who've kicked the addiction still regularly attend AA meetings. Essentially, they're battling the gene.

My theory may, of course, be completely wrong, but I also have good friends - musicians - who can't handle drink. To see them get drunk and blow their talent to hell is very sad. AA and other good support groups are essential for an illness which, though it can be brought down to almost nothing, is ever-present as far as I can see.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: alanabit
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 04:36 AM

What Will said. My father was an alcoholic who drank himself to death. Too many of my busking/musician friends have destroyed their lives and talent that way.
When my brother, who is gay, came out to me many years ago, he said, "The first thing is you have to admit it to yourself." That was a pretty profound statement. I reckon it is equally true for any form of predisposition or behaviour. Having the guts to recognise a problem is a good start. There are plenty of wiser heads than mine here. Please take their advice and move into a better part of your life. If you are an alcoholic, drinking has nothing good to offer you at all. Good luck.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 04:38 AM

I am happy to say I dont drink any more














Sadly , I have to admit I dont drink any less .


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 04:41 AM

But I do sympathise with any one who DOES have a drink problem , as I have several friends who do , and some who wont admit it .


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 07:36 AM

Whatever path you decide to pursue, I wish you success.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 07:48 AM

Acute Pancreatitis with complications is a good mind-focusser.

I'm never going through that three-year hell of almost constant body-wracking pain, weight-loss (over 90 lbs) and major surgery (twice) again. Way back at the beginning the medics said "No more alcohol, it's a pancreas-killer", so I haven't touched alcohol (my former drug of choice, though only in a 'moderate' way) since 21st December, 2005.

It's been easy - I don't miss it, except when preparing Christmas lunch (miss the three or four Croft Original sherries), and on holiday (WTF do you drink in Greece if alcohol's out of the question? Diet Coke or iced coffee (no fruit juice because I'm diabetic). What a pile of crap!).


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: ranger1
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 07:50 AM

There are programs out there other than AA that work. So if the whole AA thing doesn't do it for you, keep looking until you find works for YOU. AA is not a one size fits all program.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: jacqui.c
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 08:00 AM

Good luck to you, wherever you are. Good thoughts coming anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: freda underhill
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 09:45 AM

I had lunch with a friend today who has been sober for about 12 years. She, an athiest, went to AA and found it a supportive process. I asked her at the time how she could surrender to a higher power, as an athiest.

She said she had to think a lot about her atheism. While it was a "rational" philosophy that she grew up with, and had been good in many ways (especially dealing with issues of social justice etc) it hadn't helped with her alcoholism. So she tried thinking of a greater "Good" instead of God - and that helped. She has found goodness in the AA groups that help her understand and live with her illness.

Good luck, I hope you get support to help you understand it all, and I hope your health improves.

freda


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 10:02 AM

My mother's drinking killed her. Her brother died from a rare blood disease one year after giving up drinking - he was officially the town drunk. Go figure. Many alcoholics young and old in my family.
If your drinking is hurting you or anyone else, get some help.
I like wine in the evening but often as not have none. I have been known to be "over served" as Kendall so eloquently puts it. I could easily be a falling down drunk but images of my mother get in the way.
SINS


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 10:11 AM

i have to stop drinking periodically because of gout, my body telling me something, and I have had gout since 1985


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 10:14 AM

Having worked for and with a couple of publishers of "AA Books," and having a couple of family members in the program (and a few others who should have been but died before they found it) we are quite familiar with the program and its effects.

It works for many, and if you have, or believe you have, a problem it is a good place to start. If you find that it works for you, then you have your answer.

For a few people, it is impossible to be "in the program" without "evangelising" about it, and I've known a few who have seemed to become "unpersons" from their participation - but if it saves your life (or your friendships that really matter) it's worth it. (This effect doesn't happen to everyone who benefits from AA, but you shouldn't be surprised when you meet them at AA.)

To be successful, AA is a religion; but it doesn't prevent you from participating in another one (or several).

Few people are able to use the AA program to quit, without changing their entire lifestyle, and in particular, without getting away from acquaintances and "social situations" where they've been accustomed to drinking. This is especially true if you've been drinking with other people who have more of a problem than they recognize.

If it means moving to a new town, and finding new friends in non-drinking contexts it may be worth the change. Being already committed to being "in AA" or another good program when you make such a change probably will help you to find a place in a new community where "just getting drunk" is less a goal. Just finding a significantly different "social group" where you are may be sufficient, but can be more difficult if "those you used to drink with" find you too easily.

A dominant theme in AA (and other) programs is the recognition of "co-enablers," and you may benefit just from identifying who in your current groups of associates "encourage" (enable) your drinking. That identification will be necessary eventually, and the only solution is to break your addiction to them before - or as part of your breaking away from drinking.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 10:46 AM

My brother drank excessively for years.... and did drugs... and smoked.

I never smoked and never drank excessively. Why the difference? *shrug* It just may BE we got a slightly different set of genes.

He went to AA and took up religion semi-seriously. (My opinion is that he needed to 'believe' in order to justify abstaining... but I can't read minds.)
He is 70 now, and has been relatively clean of all that stuff for 10 years.

Me? I drink Scotch, (good) beer, wine, liqueurs, ...and very occasionally, gin, vodka, cider, and several other exotic things.... except that it may be days or even weeks between tastes. A 6-pack of beer may last a month... or a week.

I take NO credit for my good luck.... I just never did enjoy being drunk.. (maybe 3-4 times in my life was I legally drunk, and that was 40 years ago or more.)

So.... the answer I hear most from individuals who DO have the problem is that it requires almost total abstinence... no matter how you get there.

Best wishes......


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 10:52 AM

I've been in the AA for years, and what's drinking got to do with the Automobile Asociation ?

Dave H


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 10:56 AM

There's a special group.. AAA-AA.... for people who are being driven to drink.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 11:02 AM

One of my best friends recently conquered alcohol on sheer will power, by filling his glass with water every time. Where he used to be sipping wine all afternoon and be half-crocked by evening, he now has a glass of water handy. He has lost ten years from his fasce and gained dramatically in intelligence, interest in life, and general sanity.

You can drink as much as you want if you do it this way.



A


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: MikeL2
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 11:45 AM

Hi

I used to drink really heavily ( for many years mainly beer but getting into whisky too)and got to the stage that I knew I was destroying my family life and my own health.

My first marriage failed because of my drinking and I chose to try to cut it down.

I never actually stopped drinking but I cut out the whisky and cut down on beer.

I now drink a couple of glasses of red wine most nights and when we go out I have a few beers and an occasional whisky or brandy.

I know I am lucky to be able to have handled this in the way I did.

I also know others that have the real problem and how difficult it is for them to try to stop.

You are on the first step of quitting by recognising the problem. Others here have have given some good advice.

Best of luck

MikeL2


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 12:25 PM

I think I've been lucky not to have an addictive personality (except for buying records!). I gave up drink during my college years for financial reasons. I had one job where there was a drink culture on Fridays which I went along with but didn't carry it over into other days or other jobs. On retirement I tried to drink sensibly. Recently, for medical reasons, I've cut back from about 14 units a week to 7 or 8 and haven't found it a problem. I have a friend who is suffering with a serious drink problem which is affecting his health, and his family. He tries but keeps lapsing. We try to give them support but, as others have said, the individual has to make the decision and find a way to stick to it.

RtS


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 01:06 PM

Alcoholism runs in my maternal grandfather's side of the family, so my mom had two brothers who were alcoholics - one died of old age, poor, but content to have lived life on his own terms. The other committed suicide from the effects it had on his life and for other very serious problems from WWII. My brother has struggled with it for years, but has been sober for quite a while now. My son, poor boy, got a double whammy from his paternal grandfather and my side, and has been struggling with it. He has lost a great deal including two homes, a long-term relationship, and his vehicle which leaves him in a precarious state work-wise.

In the case of our family, it has always struck the men.

AA worked for my son, but he did not like it and stopped going each time. Ditto with my brother. The way it goes is: admit a problem or be forced to go there by law after being in the drunk tank overnight; go, make a few friends, notice some things that are helpful, go a few more times, get your first token etc. Miss a meeting or two, rationalise why you don't need to worry about it, you're fine. Stop going altogether. Meet up with a friend or have a shitty day at work, get depressed for whatever reason and tell yourself "I can have just a couple." It's a slippery slope from there on.

It is good you have recognised there is a problem. (Funny how docs can get us to focus with a few scary words, isn't it?)I wish you all the best. Looks like you will have access to some great helpers right here in Mudville. May it carry over for you into your 3D life.

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 01:12 PM

Interestingly, geneticists on the Human Genome Project are now discovering evidence for an 'addiction gene'. This seems to me to prove that certain individuals are battling their addiction in the face of a pre-programmed tendency to become hooked on substances, behaviours and thought patterns. It must be doubly hard for them, as their brains are wired to continue drinking. I've seen much drug addiction in prisons, and the men were so obviously powerless to change. What's exciting is that gene therapy may be a possibility, so that these destructive genes can be modified and de-fused so to speak. I feel very much for the families, partners and friends of alcoholics. AlAnon is an excellent way for them to get support too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 02:15 PM

"so have stopped drinking wine for the last couple of months. I miss a glass in the evenings, but I think I've identified the problem."

Sulphates bother Carol. We buy sulphate free wine. It is available at our local health food store and at the newly-opened Co-op.

I have never been to an AA meeting but I have researched the organization. I have read a book by a founder, Bill Wilson was his name, I think. A lot of what JohnfromKansas says is spot on. But the perspective is very different from that of AA. They tell you all the things he seems to be warning about up front. For instance there are twelve steps that REQUIRE religion but that don't actually specify the religion. So is AA a religion itself? It is a debatable question. But I have read that many non-Christians have benefited from 12-step programs, without taking up a new religion. So I would not dismiss it for that reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-Step_Program

Why am I using the term 12 step program? Because there are plenty of addictions other than alcohol and 12 step programs, based on AA which have some degree of success, higher than most other approaches, with addictions in general.

I think Wil Fly's post about "the gene" is insightful, and Eliza's about recent research and Bill D's about him and his brother are also telling.

I think that there are genetic factors not for alcoholism alone but for addiction in general that can predispose a person to have "an addictive personality" I think that environmental factors, most notably abuse as a child that can greatly increase the chances that one will become susceptible to addiction.

Who are the people most likely to abuse and neglect their child? Addicts.

Its very complicated. There probably will never be definitive answers to the causes and cures.

But in answer to the original question, all I can say is that if I were in a condition to ask the question that I think yis being asked, I would look up my local chapter of AA and go to a meeting and ask my question there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 02:46 PM

I would have thought that the most important thing to do for an alcoholic (or any other addict) would be to eschew judgmentalism.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 04:44 PM

I'll mention the guy that I used to work for. He has been in detox 4 times, and is now on 1-2 litres of vodka per day. He does not eat, his liver count is off the scale, his potassium count is nil and he will be dead within weeks. That is what drink does to you, anybody who braggs about drinking is an ass - remember that when you go "off to the pub" - you are an alcoholic in the making!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 05:20 PM

That is not necessarily true, B3; there are many, many pub-habitues who never become alcoholics and many at-home drinkers who do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 05:26 PM

AA website (Canada)


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 06:22 PM

It all depends what you live for. If nothing you might as well die happy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Joe_F
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 08:26 PM

I don't have a problem myself (it's mainly a ritual matter for me), but there is a literature on the subject, and my impression from it & from casual acquaintance is that different people have different drinking problems.

Pete Hamill (_A Drinking Life_) was in the habit because he had grown up in an Irish working-class family & neighborhood, and that was what men did. In middle age, he decided it was destroying his memory, on which he depended for his profession as a writer, so he quit. He was in a sleazy bar & had ordered a drink, so he said, this is my last drink, and he drank it, and it was. After that, he had no problem going out with his buddies & drinking something nonalcoholic & telling them why if they presumed to ask.

On the other hand, the wretch depicted (I dare say from life) in Cyril Tawney's song "Reunion" found that he had been dependent on alcohol for conviviality & that after he quit (doctor's orders, I suppose) the jokes weren't funny any more. So he had to say goodbye.

Those people managed without going thru 12 steps (as did a friend of mine who went out to has former favorite bar with me & some others, and ordered tea to celebrate), but I can well believe that enlisting the help of others in the same boat can be immensely helpful -- particularly if the feeling that you didn't matter was part of the problem. I myself am addicted to chemicals I produce internally (mostly adrenalin, I guess), so I don't have that recourse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 02:54 AM

I have to agree strongly with Ebbie's comment about pub & home drinking. I drank to excess at home, on my own. I only visited pubs when I was working, i.e. singing in folk clubs, many of which were (and still are), sited in pubs. When we were on tour, we would visit many pubs, but to eat, not drink. Pubs & alcoholism are absolutely NOT synonymous.
                                                                                                                Nigel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: MikeL2
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 05:17 AM

Hi bonzo

We all know what excessive drinking can do.

But I disagree with your point about going to the pub.

Many alcoholics don't go to the pub, especially females. They buy their alcohol cheaply from the supermarkets or wine shops and drink at home.

I and my circle of friends have drunk in pubs,clubs and bars for over fifty years now and not one of them to my knowledge has an alcohol problem.

Cheers

MikeL2


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 05:44 AM

"You might as well die happy." I don't think that many alcoholics who are so ill that they die of their addiction are in any way happy. The ones I've known were in the depths of despair and physically suffering too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: HuwG
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 10:10 AM

Chacun a son gout

I would certainly not regard myself as an alcoholic, but about eight or nine years ago, I was struck down with gout. My GP (General Practitioner) was kind enough to say that the immediate cause was some passing kidney ailment but recommended I cut out the booze. Naturally, I scoffed. This was a period of my life when I was more active and generally fitter than I had been for years. On reflection I had to admit that I had spent years in environments (engineering department at University, HM Forces, rugby club, hanging around folkies) where heavy intake of beer was the norm.

This period coincided with being made redundant from an IT job. I took a job behind the bar in a local pub to make ends meet. The landlord was one of the first micro-brewers, and proudly presented his first batch to the bar staff for tasting. We all pulled faces like lemon-squeezers and suggested it be allowed to breathe. Or preferably, be smothered in its cradle. The next day, I went down with the worst attack of gout I have ever had, and was unable to walk for almost two days. So, what with painful joints and empty wallet, I cut out the drink.

At the time, I was trying to get a date with a girl who was a health visitor. She congratulated me on my willpower. I replied that anyone who has had gout doesn't need willpower, but she regaled me with horror stories of some of her "clients", such as one whose gout was so severe that crystals of uric acid were large enough to penetrate the skin, and others whose fingers had been wrenched into Queen Anne chairlegs by the inflamed joints, but who refused to lay off the alcohol.

The upshot is that I have not drunk for most of the last decade. (A few sips of champagne at my niece's wedding don't really count.) Nor have I suffered more than perhaps two minor twinges in my toes.

A friend, a bass guitar player, recently went down with gout. On the face of it, he is a more likely candidate for the ailment, being over twenty stone and with the build and appetite of Monsieur Mongetout. He refuses to stop drinking. I have given the story of my own experience of the disease, but I won't proselytise.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Elmore
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 10:24 AM

Don't be a slave to willpower.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 10:34 AM

from

http://www.alcoholismresources.com/causes_alcoholism.html

"The cause or causes of alcoholism have been theorized to be many different things at different times. The American Society of Addiction Medicine and the National Council of Alcoholism and Drug Dependence jointly define alcoholism as, "...a primary, chronic disease with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations the disease is often progressive and fatal.
It is characterized by continuous or periodic impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, most notably denial."

There is a variance among alcoholics: They have different drinking patterns (episodic, binge drinking, daily drinking, etc.), different choices of alcoholic beverages ("hard" liquor, wine, beer, etc.) and different quantities consumed (a "few sips," several six packs, a fifth a day, a few glasses of wine with dinner, etc.). Focus on the disease should not be on the differences but on the fact of uncontrolled drinking despite the consequences.

There are many "theories" of the cause of alcoholism. One theory, diminishing in popularity, is that alcoholism is a "moral weakness" -- that the alcoholic could stop drinking if he or she "would just use a little willpower."

Other theories regarding the cause of alcoholism include:

-- That anyone who drinks enough over a long period of time can become alcoholic.

-- That alcoholism is an environmental product, influenced by one's surroundings. There are areas of the country where drinking is much more acceptable than in other areas; and, therefore, more drinkers can be found there. There are also occupations which appear to attract heavy drinkers. These include popular musicians, poets, novelists, salesmen, career soldiers and sailors, and coal miners.

-- That alcoholism is caused by an individual's "allergy" to alcohol.

-- That this person metabolizes alcohol differently than others.

-- That it is caused by either a deficiency or excess of neurotransmitters in the chemical make up of the brain.

-- That the disease is genetically influenced. Research has made it increasingly clear that the genes people inherit can contribute to the development of alcoholism. In the last few years, studies have persuasively demonstrated that approximately one half of all alcoholic persons have inherited a genetic predisposition --or susceptibility--to the disease. Studies of twins and adoptees have shown that children who have a biological parent who is alcoholic are four times more likely to develop alcoholism than the children of non-alcoholics. For sons of alcoholic fathers, the risk is even higher. This is true regardless of the environment in which they are raised.

The disease of alcoholism may be compared to that of diabetes--while the individual is not responsible for developing the disease, he or she is responsible for carefully following a treatment program once they know they have it. As with other chronic diseases, the symptoms of alcoholism may "go away" with treatment, but the disease is still present in a controlled form. In other words, the disease is in remission as long as the alcoholic doesn't use alcohol. Although incurable and potentially fatal, it is important to remember that alcoholism is also among the most treatable of all chronic diseases."

##############################

"One's too many and a hundred's not enough."

##############################

Good luck to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: ossonflags
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 07:55 PM

Willpower is all it takes.............. and taking it one day at a time


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 08:34 PM

Ossonflags: Willpower is all it takes.

I'm not sure about that. If it is anything like quitting smoking, I learned that willpower didn't do it for me; it could carry me only so far before it lost its oomph. I couldn't quit smoking until the day that I clearly saw the consequences of continuing, in other words, until I was ready. Quitting was not only possible then, but also much easier.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 03:24 AM

Willpower plus the incentive that the range of my singing voice was 'shrinking', top down, bottom up (I was singing professionally at the time) eventually broke my smoking habit. But it took two years to achieve. I went 'cold turkey' with the drinking...one day I was, the next day I wasn't. As I said above, I attended AA & although I never uttered a word at the meetings, just being there was helpful. Additionally, I needed psychiatric support. There weren't Counsellors around in those days. What interests me is that the desire to smoke has left me completely, but the desire to drink alcohol has never completely gone away...I just don't give in to it. True to say, it does become easier with the passing years. So I'm with Ebbie on this one; willpower is a vital component in the process of staying sober, or quitting smoking, but willpower alone is probably expecting too much from the individual. There is so much help available these days that relying on willpower alone is risky & not necessary. Bring your willpower 'to the table', but willingly accept the help that is offered...grasp it firmly with both hands. And please remember, there is no shame attached to asking for help.
                                                       Nigel (30+ years sober & smoke-free!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,George Frampton
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 05:15 AM

I gave up the booze three years ago.
Like an earlier contributor, I felt I had no choice due to health problems - not related to alcoholism.
In short, I had a heart operation following a massive blood infection (which also gave me a mini-stroke) and eight weeks in hospital effectively dried me out.
Once out, I found that only a pint and a half of my favour beer would cause me to stumble or fall over, so I reasoned that if I couldn't enjoy it, I might as well give up. So I did. Call it will power, I call it boneheaded determination.

A few people have looked at me as some kind of pariah for letting the side down, but really, that's their problem.

A young performer with a drinking issue reasoned to me that you don't go into a pub because you're thirsty!


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 01:42 PM

Re-quoting from my Good Friend '9''s post above:"The disease of alcoholism may be compared to that of diabetes--while the individual is not responsible for developing the disease, he or she is responsible for carefully following a treatment program once they know they have it. As with other chronic diseases, the symptoms of alcoholism may "go away" with treatment, but the disease is still present in a controlled form. In other words, the disease is in remission as long as the alcoholic doesn't use alcohol. Although incurable and potentially fatal, it is important to remember that alcoholism is also among the most treatable of all chronic diseases."
          Speaking as an Alcoholic & a Diabetic, I know & understand the wisdom of those words. They encapsulate the core of the problem.
          Final words from '9': "One's too many and a hundred's not enough." Eight words worth memorising,
                   Nigel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 02:35 PM

One's Too Many by The Fabulous Thunderbirds

Well, I love my baby
But lovin' ain't enough
I try to keep her happy
But she wanna run around

[chorus]
Well her kiss is the best
Her touch is a must
One's Too Many and a hundred ain't enough

Well, I'm tryin' to decide
If I should let the girl go
She keeps knockin' me Down
And I keep comin' back for more

[chorus]

[Bridge]
Well tryin' to be nice
Is hard to do
When the girl your loving turns her back on you

One's Too Many and a hundred ain't not enough
One's Too Many and a hundred ain't not enough
One's Too Many and a hundred ain't not enough
One's Too Many and a hundred ain't not enough


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Stringsinger
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 05:56 PM

First, to recognize that alcohol is a drug and a poison to the body is a step.
Tobacco is another.

The next is to rely on the thirteenth step, away from the addiction of religion.
There are alternatives to AA.

Detox the body in whatever way you can. Stop drinking and eating stuff that is toxic period. It's a long journey but a worthwhile one.

It's not just a matter of will power but a commitment to find ways to eliminate
all toxicity in your life as much as you can. They accumulate.

Physical exercise, hanging out with the right people, changing your environment,
and above all, learning to be easy on yourself when changing habits. Diet fads don't work. Why? Because there's the element of guilt involved. Eliminate that also.

Prohibition didn't work because severe moral judgements were placed on the consumption of alcohol that had nothing to do with the recognition that it is toxic.
It is not a religious moral issue but a practical decision to respect body chemistry and stop abusing your body with poisonous substances.

As to the "addiction gene" I think that this can be overcome as we overcome other propensities we have for illnesses that may have a genetic basis. The "addiction gene" should never be used as a rationalization for drinking and eating toxic substances.

Alcoholism is a serious and deadly problem and I don't treat it lightly. It affects not only the user but everyone else around him/her.

Stop toxicity as much as you can and this will help.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,GUEST,I don't care to sign my name to this
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 06:45 PM

Day 15.

The withdrwal has been bothersome so far but not as bad as I had feared. Not near the shakes. I am thinking a bit more clearly. Numbness/pins & needles in one foot has decreased greatly. The slight night sweats are rare. After a week, I started sleeping more soundly though only for 5 to 6 hours in total at most. I still wake up in the morning (night) as if I am hung over but that clears for the most part in an hour or so. I am still bruising and bleeding very easily and blood flow is difficult to stem. Severe pains at times in the area of the kidneys but less frequent. The doc says it may take some time to get better, if it does (more tests to come). I am also smoking less.

I read the comments again entirely at least every few days. It has helped a great deal. Thanks to everyone who wrote comments. I did not seek help from AA or anywhere else. I figure it's simple in that I just can never drink again. I know that might seem stupid but I am going that way as long as I can because it's really up to me in the end of it all.

One more thing. I am amazed at how clean things are beginning to look. I can walk from the door all the way to the TV without stepping over or around anything. The dishes are done and put away. The stove and refridgerator and such are spotless. The floors are shiney. And so on. I am half way through a large book just by reading at bed time rather than surfing and watching TV and swilling liquor and that liquor is turning into 'extra cash'. The really amazing thing is that thess small things give me a boost, make me feel good, make me want to do more small things and to succeed over time.

Okay. That's enough prattling on.

Thanks to all of you for helping me. You really did help and are still helping every time I read this topic.

Special thanks to you. You know who you are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 07:17 PM

As the toxic chemicals leave your body there is a good chance you'll experience what some call a "pink cloud". Enjoy it for what it is.

There are still land mines in the road. Emotional and otherwise. Just remember - "Wherever you go - there you are". It might be a good idea to look into the reasons why you wanted to drink to excess in the first place. Best of luck in the future. PM me anytime you like.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 07:32 PM

Guest/IDCTSMN, please do "prattle on". I love the paragraph just above that statement. And who knows- that might be the very sentiment that pushes someone else in the direction s/he needs to go.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 11:02 PM

I've never had either drinking or drug issues, but they run in my family, and I've had other compulsive behavior issues. The hardest thing is recognizing the problems for what they are.
It is easy to miss the elephant in the room, and this can go on for decades. It's also easy it to believe you are dealing with the problem when you are not.

In addition to being addicted to the behaviors, we become addicted to lying, We lie to our families and friends, and they lie to us. Then they lie for us, and we lie for them. And all along, we lie to ourselves. After a while, the lies start to make us feel better than the habit itself. It's not enough to stop the behavior, the lying must stop, as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 12:54 AM

GUEST,GUEST,I don't care to sign my name to this

You seem to be doing OK. I am very glad to read that.

Best of luck and God Bless,


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 01:24 AM

I'm still on the wagon. Four and a bit weeks now. Last week, I felt strong enough to buy a nice bottle of single malt and put it in the cupboard, where it stays unmolested.

That felt important to me that I was able to do that. You have actually to choose to exclude the stuff from your life - costhe stuff is everywhere. At least heroin addicts have to go secret places and meet criminals to get their drug of choice.

Anyway, wish me luck!


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 01:35 AM

Good Luck Al.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Megan L
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 02:25 AM

Well done Guest and Al different people have different needs and experiences keep going and may success be yours.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 02:39 AM

All the luck in the world to you, Big Al. And enjoy!


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 02:51 AM

Keep your strength up.

On a lighter note, it reminds me of the time I gave up Women for the bottle.

Took me two days to get my dick out of the bottle neck.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 04:53 AM

Yeah! And it was a 2 quart dill pickle jar!


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Beer
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 06:47 AM

Support comes in many different ways. Some of which you will find here. The very best of luck to you Big Al.
Adrien


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 07:08 AM

Yo buddy... just read your post. Glad to hear things are going okay.

Wesley's suggestion is a good one. Even if you "know" the reasons, writing them all down and reading them from time to time, as you have done with this thread, may help too, if you haven't done it already. A relative of mine once told me that he did that and also wrote after each one whether or not booze helped the actual problem or situation in the short and long terms. There were very few "yesses" and those were only short in the short term.

Big Al... my relative also told me that he said to himself many times "today is the day but I'll pick up some beer to have on hand just in case I can't do it". He never, not even ONE of those days, did it. I hope your mileage varies (not that I am saying that's why you picked up a bottle). His saviour was AA... helped by the fact that he had a wife and four small boys and didn't want to lose them.

I know you are keeping to yourself lately but you know you can email me any time. Good luck with the doc and their tests. And, if you are in town and feel the need to clean something.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Elmore
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 08:26 AM

Best of luck to Big Al.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 10:55 AM

Guest @ 19 Jul 12 - 07:08 AM was me. Had to reboot using the on/off and forgot to reset my cookies. The new energy saving options don't always work as advertised.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 12:00 PM

I also reread the thread and am sorry to have inserted non-germane stuff, so have asked a mudelf to remove my posts that weren't on topic. If you're re-reading this you don't need those reminders.

I'm not drinking wine now because of allergies, but I'm not drinking much of anything else now because it precipitates some of the ankle swelling that tends to happen to me in hot weather if I haven't been drinking enough water. Swollen feet and ankles are uncomfortable, and are my body's way of telling me to drink more water.

Good luck, un-named Guest.

SRS

---Requested posts removed by mudelf


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,JACKDAD
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 04:54 PM

My last cigarette was smoked about 1950 (I'm 89 years old) and my lasting memory was being aware of a strange taste in my mouth when I woke in the morning. The strange taste was the absence of tobacco tar. Last July I had a short stay in a hospital because of a blood situation and my doctor suggested that I give up drinking because of alcohol being an irritant to the digestive system. I followed his suggestion and it was the first time since I was 17 years old that I abstained (that is other than a 27 day voyage aboard a US Navy ship).
I am keeping the bottlers of cranberry and grapefruit juices in a profitable condition. Good luck to all of you trying to toss a habit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: MikeL2
Date: 20 Jul 12 - 05:18 AM

Hi Big Al

You have my best wished and mental support in your quest.

It sounds as if you are well on the way to beating it. Keep it up.

Cheers

MikeL2


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,Anonymous regular
Date: 20 Jul 12 - 09:38 AM

Hey fellow no-name...
Day 15?
Well done.
I am just ahead of you at day 31.
I don't give a damn whether it is genetic or I am "weak" or just an asshole.
Sometimes it really sucks (usually in the evening).
But every morning I wake up and say "thank the universe" I made it through yesterday sober.
In the evenings when it gets tough, I think about that happy moment in the morning, and how rotten I will feel if I blow it.
No AA for me...not a group-joining person at all.
Have wanted to do this for YEARS!
Tried before - failed.
I finally read everything I could on the awful effects on health.
Now I am mentally conditioning myself...I repeat hundreds of times a day under my breath that alcohol is a poison that is (was!?!) ruining my life.
My brain seems to be getting the message.
Please post again whether you are making it or not.
I want to know.
I'm rooting for you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Jul 12 - 12:39 PM

Living in the heart of downtown as I do, I am reminded constantly of one of the effects of addiction: Death. This year alone, three of the habitues of the street scene whom I knew in the sense of 'howdying', have died. Separately. And alone. The police report always says "No foul play suspected. Alcohol related."

I am aware that 'respectable' alcoholics in their comfortable homes are quite different from the drunks sleeping in the doorways of the street but often the main difference is time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Jul 12 - 01:56 PM

That is so sad, Ebbie, but you are right. Anyone could end up like that,

I would like to say my son seems to be doing a good job of staying sober AND has just been hired for a full-time job in his field. The journey to get to the point where his head was on straight and he felt worthy of caring for himself, has been long and tough, I give thanks this is the beginning of his new chapter in life sans booze.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Jul 12 - 02:20 PM

I went on a calorie counting diet a couple of years ago. I found that at 100 calories minimum per 1.4 ounce drink, drinking can be a major source of calories.

Now when I do drink, it effects me more. I get drunker quicker. the taste and smell bother me more. I am certainly tapering off. Maybe I will quit completely at some point. I don't enjoy small amounts of drink (1 to 2 ounces of liquor) nearly as much as moderate amounts, (4-8 ounces over an evening) and the calorie hit is getting harder and harder to justify. Of course any decent beer or wine is much worse at 150- 250 calories for the same amount of alcohol.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Jul 12 - 10:58 AM

Me and a mate often discuss the fact that neither of us are good at moderation. We have no issues with abstinence. We don't suffer any ill effects from lack of alcohol yet the presence of it does not seem to significantly affect our lives outside the pub or bottle!

We have both ranged from 10+ units per day over extended periods - Weeks maybe rather than months and have both been on the wagon for up to a year. I am currently, for health and financial reasons, limiting myself to a a couple of bottles of wine over the weekend and a pint and a half at the folk club on Monday. I am sure if I went above this I would be on 10+ a day again but what we have both come to the conclusion is that there is a very fine 'trigger' between doing it and over-doing it! None of us are the same and that trigger varies wildly from person to person.

Good luck to anyone who can find what their trigger is and can stay below it.

Funnily enough I have found the same with smoking - I smoked for years and stopped for years and then went on stopping and starting until I found that if I can limit my smoking to one pack of 10 Mehari Sweet Orient cigars a year - Yes, a year, usually in February, and have, oddly enough, a couple of Sobranie cocktail cigarettes at Christmas (Pink and Turquoise are my colours of choice. No I am not a poofter...) then I will go no further. That has been the cycle for 3 years now but I do know if the cycle is changed I will be back on the weed. Hopefully I will, eventually, find the same level with the pop as well.

Good luck all who are making their and other peoples lives better.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Jul 12 - 11:32 AM

"...Sobranie cocktail cigarettes..." DtG

What are those? Or is that a euphemism?


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: David C. Carter
Date: 21 Jul 12 - 12:23 PM

Ebbie,it is not a euphemism.They are usually all sorts of colors,with a gold tip.
They also make Black Russian,black,with a gold tip.They can be quite expensive.


David


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jul 12 - 12:40 PM

Alcohol addiction is a strange thing. Every one of my 4 brothers had or has a drinking problem. My Father was a drunk, yet none of my sisters drank, and I can take it or leave it.

I can only speak from personal experience about nicotine addiction; and I firmly believe that will power will not do it. A Starfish and an Oyster come to mind. The Oyster is stronger than the Starfish, but the Starfish can apply steady pressure which eventually will tire the Oyster and it will open to be eaten. Will power is strong but habit and desire are stronger, and if all you have is will power you will likely fail.

You must want to quit. That is the only thing that will work. I stopped smoking 15 years ago, and on rare occasions I want a cigarette, but not enough to smoke one. The reason, I don't want to be a smoker, and all I have to do is put my mind on something else.

Good luck to the person who started this thread. Remember, you must WANT to quit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Jul 12 - 02:35 PM

I had a long post mostly written yesterday and decided not to send it. Primarily because I only understand alcoholism from the outside looking in. Tobacco addiction, I understand, but I lack whatever receptors some people have that makes the effects of alcohol so pleasant. I like having a drink sometimes, but it's like eating cheesecake: a little is fine, more is too much, and I don't really care if I don't have any for a while.

There are folks who will give you advice based on their own beliefs and prejudices. Avoid them and find what will help you. For one thing, I'm an atheist and I could still find a way to use AA's 12 steps. Make things work for YOU.

Some ideas I believe are right and helpful no matter what the details of your addiction:

Don't sabotage yourself. If having booze around makes you want to drink, don't have it around. If being in situations makes you want to drink, don't go there. Same with friends you can't hang around with without drinking. I never though people could be that selfish and stupid, but I've seen it: the folks who ask if you want a drink and, when you say "no thanks" try to convince you to have one anyway. Just say "no" and lose the friends if you have to.

Later on when not drinking and saying "no" become more of a habit, you may feel more confident in such situations. For now, if you find yourself saying "I know I'm strong enough to resist," consider it's not much different from saying "HEY Y'ALL--WATCH THIS!!!" Just be careful in the beginning.

Do anything and everything that can help you stop. Support groups can help. AA, I firmly believe, can help whether you're religious or not. Don't look for excuses not to use available help. Ask your doctor. Tell friends and family and be honest with them. Lying is something addicts do as a matter of habit. Find something else to do instead of drink: no, not another drug. Take walks, go to the gym, play with the dog, write, draw, make things, anything healthy that you enjoy.

Think sober. When I quit smoking, I had this thing I repeated whenever I got an urge: "No, I don't do that anymore." From what I understand (which means "what I've been told") many addicts find "never again" too frightening, so it's "one day at a time." Shut it down for that day. Think "I'm not going to have a drink today". Then repeat as necessary.

As long as you don't give up trying to succeed, you can't fail. Many addicts (most?) don't succeed the first time we try. Most of us have to fuck up enough so we really understand what happens to make us fuck up. You may never have another drink. If you do, it's not a reason to stop trying. Being sober is a process, not an outcome. There were 20 years between the first time I quit smoking and the time I finally quit. I think it took me so long because I wasn't very motivated. I hope you're successful much quicker than I was. Just don't give up.

Finally, use whatever tactics work best for you.   I wish you the best. I won't say "good luck" because luck has nothing to do with it. I wish you strength, and wisdom, and good people in your life to be there when you need them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Jul 12 - 03:16 PM

perhaps works for some people, but not for me.

On Tuesday - it will be five weeks. The reason that it seems to be working is that it seems to be working.

I had an awful lot of day ones, before I managed day two - or night two in my case.

I could be swimming in a lake of single malt - without wanting a mouthful. I just can't face the idea of being on that day one again, and waiting for whatever it took to sweep me onto day two.

Thanks for the messages of support. I appreciate them - I really do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jul 12 - 03:28 PM

What Jeri said is true, and I will add, people who try to talk you into "One drink" are not friends. Lose them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jul 12 - 03:49 PM

Jeri... "Being sober is a process, not an outcome."

I like the whole post but I like that quote best!


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Jul 12 - 04:29 PM

Oh yea - One thing I forgot that really can make things easier. Sounds daft but if you can manage to convince yourself that you are a non-drinker, non-smoker or non-whatever that has just been down the wrong path for a while it does to something to your head! Probably just the power of auto-suggestion but it did seem to work for me on occasions.

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Joe_F
Date: 21 Jul 12 - 08:47 PM

For one dear friend of mine, it sufficed to refrain from keeping the stuff in his house. If he wanted, say, one beer with dinner, he went out, bought one bottle, and brought it home. When he visited me, he could have two or three, knowing that when he went home the rest would stay here. That was only one of the ways I was useful to him. %^)


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,anon reg
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 12:00 AM

Big Al-
You nailed it.
Now that I am several weeks in, it would be hell to be at day one again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 12:39 AM

"The Oyster is stronger than the Starfish, but the Starfish can apply steady pressure which eventually will tire the Oyster and it will open to be eaten."

But what about the Seagull. When I have a problem, I try to get as high as I can so that I can drop it on a rock.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 05:28 AM

But, if you are too high, you can't tell if those are real seagulls or seagulls painted on the road*.

This is done where seagulls are dropping shellfish on roadways... Canso Causeway, for example.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Stringsinger
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 11:42 AM

The problem is not just alcoholism but the propensity for addiction.

That has to do with a state of mind. Therapists can help with this provided they do not put you on drugs (no SSRI's).

Stop eating sugar, soy products, processed foods, breads, any flesh, limit if not keep off of dairy products and learn to love fresh fruits and vegetables.

I'd go a step further and recommend a raw food program.
There are books available on how to do this.

You'll be surprised at how you really can condition yourself to enjoy fruits and vegetables, and want to exercise healthfully.

This may seem extreme to you but it can be entirely comfortable and make you happy. It's a matter of reconditioning your mind and body.

Forget the diet programs. Stay off all drugs.

Don't beat yourself up. A reconditioning program takes time and treating yourself well. You don't have to become an ascetic and punish yourself.

Moderate exercise is important. Don't go for the "Insanity" workout. Even athletes develop problems over time.   Be sensible about how much your body can handle.

Being thin doesn't mean you are healthy. Check out Jim Fixx. A flat stomach doesn't necessarily mean a healthy body. Don't buy into the hype that you have to look sexy like a movie star. They are not necessarily and for the most part not healthy people.

We eat and drink primarily because of our cultural habits which involve other people. We can change this.

Ya' gotta' do a complete overhaul but it can be done without pain.

It seems extreme but it really is fulfilling and brings happiness.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 12:40 PM

Stringsinger.

You are talking utter bollocks

We eat and drink primarily because of our cultural habits

I think you'll find that it's mostly because we'd die if we didn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: kendall
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 02:05 PM

It's been 15 years without a smoke, and I still have bad dreams in which I smoke a cigarette and wake up horrified that I fell off the wagon.
For years after I quit I told myself "I don't want to be a smoker", and I think that helped.

It's almost time for my shot of Scotch.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 03:12 PM

"Raw." No way! Every week or two I read about more beasties in raw veggies and undercooked whatever. Recalls and people getting VERY ill... two bad bouts of it in my small province in a few months. I used to LOVE salads and coleslaws and blood rare steak and such. Now, EVERYthing gets cooked. Still gotta have medium-rare steak, though... I can only go so far. >;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 04:15 PM

Ed protested

You are talking utter bollocks

We eat and drink primarily because of our cultural habits

I think you'll find that it's mostly because we'd die if we didn't.


You know perfectly well he was talking about our food choices and how we prepare it. And he's right - much of the processed food available today is very unhealthy. Just cooking from scratch is going to remove a lot of the toxic stuff. And if you're busy cooking you don't have as much time to worry about drinking.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 04:36 PM

I wouldn't say that Stringsinger's post is "bollocks." But I don't think it is on topic.

"Stop eating sugar, soy products, processed foods, breads, any flesh, limit if not keep off of dairy products and learn to love fresh fruits and vegetables."

Is not a medically recognized treatment for addiction.   If you are going to "learn to love" something why not just learn to love moderation?


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: kendall
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 05:27 PM

I never order salads in a restaurant. Cooked foods only. I don't know where their hands have been or when they washed last.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,A nameless member today
Date: 24 Jul 12 - 04:05 PM

As of today I'm 19 years clean and sober.So it can be done.Good luck guest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 24 Jul 12 - 07:33 PM

Do you know the real reason the Chicken crossed the road?

To prove to the woodchuck that it really could be done.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Jul 12 - 09:40 PM

Huh? (100)


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Jul 12 - 10:44 PM

De woodchuck warn't a de cider?


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,GUEST,I don't care to sign my name to this
Date: 25 Jul 12 - 05:44 PM

Day 22.

Day 15 was the last day I took a blood pressure pill because the readings dropped dramatically on Day 11. I have been on them for over two years. Saw my GP today to review the change in pressures as I was taken aback by the substantial decrease and a little worried they might be too low with a few such as 96/58. He was very pleased about the pressures and much more so about my abstinence which he did not know about (long story).

The bruises from slight bumps are fading MUCH faster and I don't get them so easily. Although I only had one small cut, it stopped bleeding MUCH faster. The joint pain in my legs, arms and hips is still bad and VERY bad most mornings for the first few hours (knees are the opposite as they get worse as the day goes on). My GP said the bruising and bleeding should be "normal" in several months and that the joint pain shouldn't increase but the damage done and associated pain would mostly remain. Can't take anything like aspirin or acetaminophen or ibuprofin so I have to search out "natural" stuff. Maybe I should take up the ganja?

I am sleeping fairly well for up to 6 hours some nights with NO sweats. The shaking in my left hand is less than a tenth of what it was and it's less than that in the right hand. I can type without needing a few drinks.

The house continues to get cleaner. Some chores that are months overdue are getting done. I am getting a lot more fresh air and exercise. The "mental mason jar" containing my "booze money" is looking more impressive every day - I figure my trips to the bank for cash are cut in half. THAT REALLY makes me rue the boozing I did but I tell myself I can't change it now so forget about it and look forward but it's not easy to not be upset about it.

I am still absentminded as all getout at times but there has been more improvement albeit slight. Crosswords are far easier, even in the early morning.

Here's something else that upsets me when I let it. I have been getting a lot of stuff done. One can do so when one has an extra EIGHT to TEN HOURS PER DAY not affected by alcohol. The last three years have been such a waste that the only way I can deal with it is like I said, like others have written above - don't beat myself up about it and don't repeat it.

I have thought fondly of having a few several times but I just say to myself, "You don't drink. It's not an option. Period."

Here the latest installment of "One more thing." I am finding more time to connect with relatives and maybe even some old friends in future rather than spending as little time as possible in anyone's company other than talking with Alfred and with other surfers.

I still read the posts every few days. Even though I skip some because I know them by rote, I am reminded of their content. I read every new post daily. It helps a lot.

Okay. That's enough prattling on.

I sincerely wish the others that have posted in similar fashion have success with their efforts. It's worth it. I see that much more clearly every day.

Thanks again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Jul 12 - 07:31 PM

It's not like quitting smoking when you can go around telling everyone you meet. Good to share something this great with people!! Congratulations! Keep it up, and thanks for adding to the happiness around here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Jul 12 - 10:42 PM

"...thanks for adding to the happiness around here." Jeri

I love that. And you know, Jeri is right. Humans are so fragile that every story of strength and positivity gained is a cause for happiness. Thanks for increasing my happiness.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jul 12 - 10:59 PM

This puts our decluttering threads on notice - mostly we've been dealing with small stuff. The health issues are there, of course, and I won't equate those, but discovering all of those extra hours in the day for being creative or productive or to do those chores - that must feel marvelous!

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 12:01 AM

Guest with the terrible pain, etc., you might be interested to read my posting about medicinal marijuana HERE.

Kudos to all who are taking such important steps for health.

Jeri, that was an excellent posting.

Stringsinger/Frank is spot-on, imo. The documentary "Forks Over Knives" backs up whole food plant-based eating with much scientific data from around the world. Netflix did have it. Well worth watching for anyone interested in good nutrition and the links between poor nutrition and various maladies including cancer and heart disease.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 03:53 AM

went to see some dear friends gigging a bar that I'm going to do in in a coupleof weeks. The place seened empty but there were a few hardened revellers: one guy looked as though he'd been drinking since 1932. The mood was jolly, the music sounded cool; the women beautiful.

Then this care in the community type wandered in off the street, with a dog on a length of rope. A brown and white spaniel.

The landlord greeted me - Hi Al! its been too log...! I've just drank a bottle of calvados - part of my five a day....

Then the dog (the brown and white spaniel) wandered to the space in front of the stage and pissed on the floor and grinned mischievously....they wiped it up with what looked suspiciously like a tea towel.

I thought to myself - thank God the middle classes don't know about real folk music and come and bugger it up with their preposterous aggrandising drivel.

I drank bottled spring water over ice, then alcohol free lager. The doors of the bar were open, and I felt more comfortable in the cool summer night air than I had for several weeks.

The sixth week.

The night before coming home from a gig - we passed a farm. Outsde was a handwritten sign. farmhouse cider - all types here. Cold cider straight from the fridge on a hot summers day....

Won't be going there, I thought, and felt a little sad.

Been there too often, I thought - still a little sad though. It would be nice to be someone who could drink in moderation. But I can't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Jul 12 - 12:52 PM

week seven

missed it when rewriting a song late at night. after a row with my wife.

otherwise - not tempted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: gnu
Date: 31 Jul 12 - 08:22 PM

Good on ya, Al!


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 31 Jul 12 - 10:09 PM

Guest IDC2SMNTT and Al, have been checking in to this thread frequently to see how you are doing. Well done to both of you! I'm proud of you -- and I hope you are proud of yourselves (you certainly should be!).

Like many others, I am rooting for you and am so pleased to see you both succeeding so well.

Hugs to you both,

Vikki/YY


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 01:04 AM

I don't drink anymore... no really...

Not for the last 2 or 3 years.

Various reasons: medications for middle aged health conditions, financial realities,
and just plain boredom with socialising in over expensive pubs & clubs..



Though I do reserve the option to indulge in enjoying a big idiotic binge bender
of affordable supermarket booze fueled home drinking
one weekend every 2 or 3 months or so.

No justifications needed, it just seems to happen when the time feels right
to lose control and become stupid & unruly in the relatively safe confines of my own home.

It's not a fixed pattern set in stone,
maybe coincides with birthdays and bank holidays to some extent ??

.. and if it becomes too predictable and I start to feel like I'm going through the motions for the sake of it,
who knows I might stop drinking altogether eventually.

One thing I'm positively aware of is the less frequently I get drunk
the more disinclined I am to go through the discomforts
of waking up feeling like shit
and having to sheepishly trace my trail of shameful embarrassment
on various internet forums...


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,GUEST, I don't care to sign my name to this
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 06:30 PM

Day 29.

Blood pressure remains a welcome surprise. I gave blood today (tests for progress) and had NO bruising where I was poked or taped with a pressure bandage whereas a month ago the bruising was alarming. My finger nails are growing again, although slowly, and one of the seven nails which are split back to the flesh seems to be starting to heal. The joint pain is still excruciating in the morning but lessens through the day if I don't "overdo" things. The shakes are minimal and I can sign my name, count change, not drop stuff and so on quite well.

I've had the odd bad day but Saturday started out bad and went beyond worse with small stuff and big stuff, lots of both, one after the other to the point where I wanted to crawl into a hole and die but I did not think of the bottle. I NEVER thought of the bottle - a month ago, I couldn't make it past mid afternoon on a good day without a drink because I did not believe I could. Now, I find THAT UNbelievable. In the past, the first day being sober was my goal and I never achieved it. This time, my goal was the last day being drunk and when I woke up the next day I had already achieved it. Sounds strange but it worked for me, so far.

Something new are the headaches (I never had any while drinking) but these are mostly when I get stressed. Like when the brand new VCR/DVD recorder worked fine for two days and then decided I didn't need a picture to go along with the sound. I should have packed it back in the box right away rather than spending two hours troubleshooting it. It's back at the store and the money is back in my wallet and my headache is gone.

I have been getting SO much done and I have been doing some short term planning rather than saying, "To hell with it, whatever happens happens." and getting drunk. Nothing major. Mostly just setting some goals regarding health, finances, work, and relationships and setting to paper ways to work toward these goals slowly. I am hoping this will give me the same boost as simply cleaning the house did a few weeks ago. I even just arsed around on Sunday to change things up a bit and simply relax (recall Sad Saturday above). It helped.

Anyone ever hear of getting VERY itchy during this? For about two weeks, I have been itchy. Back and sides of my head, my eyebrows, my back (nasty bad!), chest, thighs, the twins (not fun in the shops!). Itchy all over!...

Okay, that's enough prattling on.

"One more thing" time. Actually, a number of them:

It also helps to read the positive comments and stories of others. Thanks once again. Also, again, I hope that those relating their own progress are successful.

Jeri and others. As for adding to the happiness, I didn't know I was but if I did I am glad for doing so. Thanks for the concern and the encouragement. Like I said, I read the whole topic often and every new comment every day.

katlaughing. As for the medicinal marijuana, my GP says "Mmmmm." while he shakes his head with a "that's doubtful" look on his face. The government makes it very difficult to obtain.

Big Al. I started over a woman. That's all I am going to say.

punkfolkrocker. I understand. I used to do that quite often, every few months. Usually on a fishing trip or some such. Dangerous as heck but "fun".

Take care of yourselves and each other.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 07:47 PM

You'd probably be better off with someone who's been through it, but I'm here now.

It happens when one quits smoking, too. Damned neurotoxins. Alcohol is one, and messes with your nerves, from the big stuff inside your skull down to the itty-bitty ones in your skin.

The itching may be driving you nuts, but it's a sign of your body recovering, healing, and it's temporary.

...at least that's what I can find on the internet. Here's one forum page (ehealthforum), and here's another (http://www.soberrecovery.com).

The "adding to the happiness" thing: everybody feels good when someone else succeeds. You don't do it for anyone else, but it still gets around.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 08:11 PM

Guest, I can understand about the docs and the government. I know of only one doc in all of Western Colorado who will prescribe. Then there is a long process for the official gov. card which i have to have to buy and use it, Bah!

The itchy skin could also be sign of dehydration, as well as the headaches, though all of the other things like Jeri pointed out could be the main culprit.

Congrats to you and, you, Al, for each day you are sober.

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: gnu
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 09:25 PM

I got a couple of PMs and emails with offers of help and requests to contact or forward something to the OP. Just can't do it. You'll have to ask/say whatever in this thread.

I am "enjoying" reading this thread, mostly due to the sharing, support and encouragement. The Mudcat community is heartwarming indeed.

For lack of something better to say, good luck to everyone struggling with addiction or mental/physical pain.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,Anonymous regular
Date: 02 Aug 12 - 12:14 AM

Big Al,
My new mantra (thanks to you) is "it would be hell to be back at day one".
That has carried me through day 46 so far.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Aug 12 - 03:18 AM

Speaking of happiness, some years ago I coined a phrase that works for me: Every day that I'm happy adds to the happiness in the world. Every day I am miserable I add to the misery of the world.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,GUEST, I don't care to sign my name to this
Date: 02 Aug 12 - 07:26 AM

Forgot to mention something very pleasant. I can wash my hair in the shower without "holding onto" the wall. I couldn't keep my balance with my eyes shut until about a week ago.

The effects of drinking should be taught in schools.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Aug 12 - 03:42 AM

'Big Al,
My new mantra (thanks to you) is "it would be hell to be back at day one".
That has carried me through day 46 so far.'

let's hope it keeps working for both of us. Thanks again for the good wishes of mudcatters - you guys are great.

Plus a hug from Yorkshire Yankee - now theres something to fantasise about. Could it blossom into romance - who knows....? I still have the knives you guys gave me. Although a drunken paraoid builder (who was living in my house doing some work for me - not me!) ran off with one of the knives. I replaced it with a rubber handled one from Tesco. That way the block looks funny - bit I have the full coplement of knives.

I hope you are both well, and did you ever sing in old peoples homes? I had to quit that - it was too physial jumping round all over the place. Nowadays I sit on a stool in pubs with my guitar and sing songs - a bit (but not too much!) like a folksinger!


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 04 Aug 12 - 05:23 PM

Hi Al! Very kind of you to say so (you big kidder, you!)

Glad to hear the knives are serving you well, but not that some jerk ran off with one. Which one was it, BTW? (Not guaranteeing we can find you another one; the place we used to get 'em at went bust, sadly -- but we could keep an eye out for you...)

I didn't take up singing in old people's homes, but I have never forgotten watching you do your thing -- and the fine job you did (nor your generosity in inviting me along). I was most impressed, especially with the way you went around the room and made physical contact with every single person there; handshakes, kisses (especially the ladies!), hugs. It was something I'm not sure I'd have thought to do if I had just tried doing it myself, but seeing how much those folks appreciated contact with you made a deep impression on me.

I hope you're happy where you are, and well done to you for keeping to your resolve!

IDC2SMNTT, I hope you are continuing to improve and become stronger -- and maybe even like/love yourself a bit more every day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:10 AM

Eight weeks. Just read your post YY. many thanks for the nice things you said.Playing for th old folks was the best job I ever had - much better than the hit record, or playing in Bands. Million times better than teaching. Having said that - I'm enjoying doing pubs again - I have an electric guitar that sounds like an acoustic - so I don't need to mess about with backing trax or anything. Its just like playing to myself at home.

Yesterday was weird. I had this great (I thought) idea for a jingle for Talisker whisky. Only took ten minutes so I recorded it and put it on sound cloud...... wouldn't it be a bugger if booze made me some money. After all all these years I figure it owes me a quid or two!

Its funny what ideas God puts in the mind of weird people. I'm always grateful he doesn't get me to climb a tower and shoot everybody, or something bad like that.

Hope you doing okay YY, I went to that folk club with you once in Sheffield - nicely refurbished old looking place. I didn't feel I fitted in very well. Perhaps just got it on a bad night - I did a spot at The Yetties club last night and died at on my arse. Music's like that - sometimes the magic works - sometimes not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:24 AM

idea for jinglee for Talisker

http://soundcloud.com/dashboard


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,Guest, won't say
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 03:49 PM

I have been reading this thread with interest and since I find I'm not logged in I'll add another perspective.

My husband has been a drunk for a long time, and over the last couple of years became a full-blown alcoholic - secret drinking, passing out, usual stuff. The only thing that kept me with him was the thought that I would have to be the one to sort everything out if I left, and it was too big a job for me to tackle.

Last February he was dismissed from his job for drinking at work and is now retired. That brought him up short and he realised that he was killing himself. He stopped drinking.

As he says, he was in the shit but he's climbing out. It's steep and it's slippery and it stinks and a couple of times he's slid back in, but each time he gets further from it.

He looks and sounds better than he has for years, and admits he's happier. I feel that I actually like him again, and from not practically speaking (after all, he was either slurred, or comatose, or so self-absorbed nothing registered) we communicate normally again.

Well done those of you who are joining his climb. I wish he could see what you write - actually, I might print your updates out for him.

He has been prescribed acamprosate to help overcome craving. I found this website invaluable, and would recommend it to anyone else in the position of living with a problem drinker.

Good luck to you all, and much happiness.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Elmore
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:05 PM

I would probably drink too much, but can't deal with the hangovers or disappointing my wife. Just saw on CNN that Randy Travis got bagged for dui, and more. Pitiful.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Aug 12 - 02:17 AM

Doesn't seem like it would be but this is a happy thread. You lift my heart.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: gnu
Date: 09 Aug 12 - 05:22 AM

Al... ya gotta log in to hear the jingle so no go for me.

won't say... the plight of families affected by drink is a whole other tragic dimension. I hope things work out well for you(se).


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Aug 12 - 07:29 AM

send me an e-mail and i'll post it to you as an mp3.

I've been a fan of yours ever since the Flanders and Swann song.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 09 Aug 12 - 01:16 PM

I'm all right, Al, thanks for asking.

As for the "Folk Club", IIRC, it wasn't really a proper folk club; it turned out to be an odd evening -- with a number of Catters gathering to meet up with Jacqui & Kendall (but then he was too ill to attend), and not many regulars... not a typical night.

Guest, Won't say... thanks for the link you posted; looks like a very useful site so I've bookmarked it. (I have a hubbie who stopped drinking 2-3 months ago on doctor's orders (he was rarely (if ever) out of control, but the amount of weight he put on was alarming), so I'm hoping I won't ever need it, but it's good to know it's there.

I hope the lives of you and your husband continue to improve and that you can find/re-discover some happiness together.

P.S.
Gnu, what's this Flanders & Swann song Al mentioned? I'm definitely intrigued...


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Aug 12 - 02:37 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqgPyqyh4X4


The Gnu Song


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,GUEST, I don't care to sign my name to this
Date: 09 Aug 12 - 05:00 PM

Day 30.

Still finding this thread (a buddy told me these are threads, not topics) helpful and informative daily. I understand what is meant by it being a happy thread as it warms me when I hear of the successes of others.

This weekly installment of my story (confession?) is a day late for good reason. Saw the gastro doc today and got the results of the liver function tests. Perfect. No different from a teatotaller except for one test that isn't too bad and "isn't important" unless certain other tests are abnormal in unison. With any luck, the bruising and bleeding problems will be okay in a few months. The doc will recommend in his report to my GP that I see two other "ologists" to investigate the joint pain and itchies and such which he now feels are not liver related.

The doc was very pleased and taken aback regarding my abstinence. He said that he did not think I could do it or would do it, especially just stopping - cold turkey. I didn't tell him about this thread.

So, bottom line is, even though I was in dire straights with the physical problems, my liver bounced back and the prognoses are in my favour. Anybody out there who is in that situation and thinks, as I did for some time, "Why bother? I'm screwed now anyway and may as well self-medicate the pain away." DON'T!!! Give it a shot (pun intended).

One last thing(s). The garage is neat and tidy. The lawn, trees, shrubs, plants and flowers are pruned and not wilted. The spiders messing up the house siding are at peace. The chalking of the house siding cannot be seen from the roadway. The vehicle is clean inside and out. The larder is full of healthy foods. The books are getting read. The basement is next. If I survive the basement, unfinished songs and writings may see progress even if they bring back memories that I used to drink away. And, there's a blues harp somewhere in this house that hasn't seen spit in years. It could be anywhere that I left it. Maybe it's in the basement.

Thanks again for reading, for writing. Means a lot to me and, apparently, thankfully, to others. Glad I started this thread with one simple request... thanks buddy.

Enough prattling on.

You all take care of you, yours and us. You owe it to you and yours.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Aug 12 - 07:37 PM

Love it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Aug 12 - 02:16 AM

keep at it mate! Theres a poem by William Empson - a bit obscure = its about how passions - like the sex urge take over us and we sometimes feel like a helpless rat being shaken to death in the teeth of a terrier.


Empson was a boozer himself -the best man at my wedding was one of his students at Sheffield University. Empson used to take him and other students into the bar and challenge the last one to complete a 14 line sonnet to buy the first round of drinks.

Its a puzzling poem - some lines are hard to make sense of . However somehow we have located the 'colder lunacies' within ourselves which give us the faith to believe we can control, the teasers, the dreams, the temptations that 'flash and die'. Lets hope we can hold onto our illusions of self control.

The Teasers



Not but they die, the teasers and the dreams,
Not but they die,
and tell the careful flood
To give them what they clamour for and why.

You could not fancy where they rip to blood
You could not fancy
nor that mud
I have heard speak that will not cake or dry.

Our claims to act appear so small to these
Our claims to act
colder lunacies
That cheat the love, the moment, the small fact.

Make no escape because they flash and die,
Make no escape
build up your love,
Leave what you die for and be safe to die.


William Empson

Yorkshire Yankee - send me your email. Mine is denise_whittle@yahoo.co.uk

I'll send you the mp3 Its no great thing - just something i cobbled together on the spur of the moment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Aug 12 - 06:31 AM

Day 30? I guess I was a tad too excited yesterday. It was day 37.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,GUEST, I don't care to sign my name to this
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 08:59 PM

Well, I am pissed and pissed off. Yup. Fell off. Near a week now. I shant explain what got me back on the booze... who needs to hear an excuse... a stupid "excuse". Not heavy drinking but any drinking is "bad".

But, I have this hope. All of those good feelings and experiences about not drinkng for about 1.5 months are still in my mind. I did it once for that long and I can do it again. Not only that, but I mostly realize it's not "that long" that matters... what matters is today. Essentially, only today matters. When "they" say "one day at a time" it really means something.

And, yes, it does suck to be back at DAY 1 (-1 at this very moment as I am pissed). But, I know what started me back on the liquor and I shall be more vigilant in dealing with that situation when it comes to kick me in the ass again and it will because people die every day.

Something else... this very afternoon I had the occasion to reunite with two of my blood uncles who were/are alkies at a family get-together. I could see myself in them. We joked aside from the others about "being sick" as it is referred to among the family - they wouldn't dare say "alkie" because it's not "nice". They have the trauma of war service as an excuse to drink in their old age. I have none.

Sorry if that's a downer. Twas a happy thread as was said. I'll be back when I have happy news to report. I will keep reading this thread every day. Means a lot to me no matter if I fucked up.

Sorry. I feel like I let youse down. I feel like shit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: maeve
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 09:13 PM

So you're not perfect. You're disappointed in yourself. You are worth every effort you can put into this transformation. You can do it...

one...step...at...a...time. Every day is a new day. Each minute is an opportunity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 09:43 PM

My first post and last underlined thingie about "don't give up".

The worst thing you can do now is be pissed off at yourself and quit trying. You fell. Get back up.

Also, nobody has to be happy all the time. It's ok to vent. Giving up drinking is, I think, a little like saying goodbye to an old friend. It's a friend that beats you up and steals your money routinely, but a friend.

This is a disease. You can be mad at the disease, but you, you did good for quite a while, and you've learned about yourself. Let that help you, and forget "guilt". Especially if guilt makes you think "I suck. Might as well just give up..."

What would you tell a friend who was going through this?


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 09:57 PM

Good post, Jeri. Unnamed guest, the drink happened, you regret it, now get up and move forward. You've done quite a good job on your own, all things considered. You can continue in that direction.

I haven't had any beer or wine (or other alcohol) for quite a few weeks now. I decided to leave it out of my diet because I finally figured out it was contributing to edema in my ankles and pain in my feet. They've been fine since I stopped. I don't know if this is seasonal, I'm not going to add it back again any time soon.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 10:54 PM

A Mudcatter friend and I decided that the phrase should properly be: One step each time.

And you know what? I don't think any one of us here is disappointed with you and your experience. After all, it is addiction; if it were easy to quit, it wouldn't be an addiction.

Life goes on, and so do you. Hugs to you, man.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: gnu
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 11:47 PM

Those last posts made me cry. I wish I had words of wisdom to add.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 06:39 AM

Bloody hell mate! the idea of having the drink was to cheer yourself up!

So the day one stategy didn't work for you. Obviously its a bit of a fucker starting again, using a satnav that didn't get you where you wanted last night.

What I always loved about being an entertainer was the fact that however dysfunctional and resentful my relationship with an audience was - the next day you were somewhere else - with a new lot of people who hated you, or loved you.

What I mean is - the days of your life are like one night stands. Theres no need to get involved with the ones that fuck you up. Change the sheets, have a shower, new set of guitar strings and away you go.

Try and look at it a different way. As a fraction. Forty five forty sixths of the last few days have been perfect. Perhaps you can aim for forty six forty sevenths!


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 09:18 PM

Don't fret. Another Day One is better than none. You are fighting a war which may have a few more battles. I want you to win. Just don't give up!


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: maeve
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 06:38 AM

Good morning. Remember there are many here, named and unnamed, rooting for you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 06:47 AM

You can do it. I quit in '83. Get out of the habit of buying it. It's a solvent. Not a beverage.
(:-( D)=


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 07:55 AM

I quite like the the buying - its the results of putting the stuff in your gob that I have trouble with.

Still. As an old headmaster once said to me - its up to every teacher to work out his own on salvation on the floor of the classroom. Its a very individual struggle. Don't buy it - if it helps you. personally i love the glamour of booze - the labels, bottles, the ownership, the poetry thats in the writing of Raymond Chandler. They don't hurt me - itsthe consumption of it and the way I do it personally, which is ugly and unglamorous. That's my problem. And writing about it now - has made me realise that.

So a skirmish defeat was written in the history of this campaign. Doesn't mean the war was lost for this poor chap, who right now is feeling bad and self disgust.

Been there - don't dwell on it. It doesn't help. The history of today is still there for you to write.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 09:51 AM

From the Long Goodbye by Raymond Chandler:-

'I like bars just after they open for the evening. When the air inside is still cool and clean and everything is shiny and the barkeep is giving himself that last look in the mirror to see if his tie is straight and his hair is smooth. I like the neat bottles on the bar back and the lovely shining glasses and the anticipation. I like to watch the man mix the first one of the evening and put it down on a crisp mat and put the little folded napkin beside it. I like to taste it slowly. The first quiet drink of the evening in a quiet bar-that's wonderful," I agreed with him.

"Alcohol is like love," he said. "The first kiss is magic, the second is intimate, the third is routine. After that you take the girl's dothes off."

"Is that bad?" I asked him.

"It's excitement of a high order, but it's an impure emotion-impure in the aesthetic sense. I'm not sneering at sex. It's necessary and it doesn't have to be ugly. But it always has to be managed. Making it glamorous is a billion-dollar industry and it costs every cent of it."

From Big Al

the poetry won't kill you - the booze will.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 02:24 PM

once it goes in your gob, that's where the cut off point comes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Mooh
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 02:44 PM

Dry for 11 years and counting.

Replace booze with a non-alcoholic drink, do something creative with your hands, avoid alcoholic places until you can attend such places without drinking, exercise instead, don't have booze handy, chewing gum, go to bed at a decent hour without drink, avoid coffee, get up early and do something useful, make no excuses for failure, eat right and avoid the foods you enjoyed while boozing, mark the time and day you stop drinking and focus on the next day, then the next etc.

In the end though, there are no tricks, just mega willpower and stamina.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 03:21 PM

For some people, it seems, substituting a non-alcoholic drink works. A friend of mine told me his psychiatrist told him that what the friend craved was the convivial atmosphere in a pub/bar, advising him to carry a tall glass of cola with a twist or cherry and no one would be the wiser. For my friend, it worked.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,, I don't care to sign my name to this
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 09:07 PM

"The history of today is still there for you to write."

Wise words.

Mooh and others... thanks.

I guess I just used the close death to justify my "What the F*** attitude". Surely my friend would have wanted me to celebrate his death by not drinking in his honour. But any excuse to justfy a drink sounds good when you want it to sound good.

Don't beat myself up? That is hard. I was told I made people happy by what I was doing and writing about in this topic. I truly feel like I have failed them as well as me.

I could go on about this and that but it won't make any difference. Only I can make a difference. I'll be back when I do.

In the mean time, I will read every comment. Thanks again to every one of you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 09:22 PM

Here's another hand to hold, if you want.

I've been fortunate in my life (and am knocking on wood) that I can enjoy drinking in moderation. Alcohol problems are all over my family history. I understand a little about addiction, and what it takes to overcome it.

Recovery is not for sissies.

AA can be amazing and miraculous, many of their tenets are simple truths we could ALL use to be reminded of over... and over... and over again. Like the Serenity Prayer.

Glad you reached out. Sending you good wishes for continued wisdom, peace and strength.

Dani


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 09:29 PM

If you watch someone trying to learn an instrument, you can be happy when he gets something right. You can be hopeful when he doesn't get something easily though, because he DID get some of it, and you know he'll eventually figure the rest out.

You know how good it felt to be successful. You know how good it felt to not be poisoning yourself. You might make some folks here happy for you, but the only person who really matters is you. You have to want to not drink for you if you're going to be successful. We're on your side, but we don't have control. You do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 09:37 PM

" I truly feel like I have failed them as well as me."

Yourself - maybe. But only if you don't learn something from this experience. You certainly haven't failed me. There are a lot of witty sayings I can pass on but here's one of my favorites:

"You can't see your future in a rear view mirror."


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 09:56 PM

I quit for a year and a half. Fell off the wagon.
6 months later quit again. Nothing more in 30 years. Sometimes you have to go back and remind yourself how shitty it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 05:15 AM

Life is not meant to be easy, my child; but take courage -- it can be delightful.
(George Berard Shaw)

Life is mostly froth and bubble,
two things stand like stone
Kindness in another's trouble,
Courage in your own.
(Adam Lindsay Gordon)

They keep me going!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 05:32 AM

If you do what you've always done, you know what the result will be.
Time for a change you can believe in.
(:-( ))=


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,anonymous regular
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 08:05 AM

I don't care to sign my name to this:

You trying again?

What day?


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 01:06 PM

Living in the heart of downtown as I do (within earshot of FIVE bars and two package stores) I see the results of heavy drinking every day and every evening. Happy drunks, morose drunks, weepy drunks, quarrelsome drunks all take their turn through my eyes and ears and heart. They have told me their story, have shared their pasts and their aspirations, and their belief that they won't last another winter. Indeed, some of them have died.

Some- most - of them come from heavy drinking families; one man told me, awestruck, that *one* sister of his never drank. NEVER drank, he repeated wonderingly.

Another told me that the first time he got drunk was when he was 7 years old- and his parents thought it was so *cute*.

I don't know many 'genteel' drunks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 08:59 PM

I, too, would like to hear from the original poster again. I hope he is soon ready to give it another go.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: gnu
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 07:58 AM

I haven't heard any word from the OP in a while. No response yet. I am sure the interest and well wishes are appreciated.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 11:54 PM

No one knows better than he does that he's got to try again.

But you have to wait for the clouds to lift to see the sunshine.

somehow now I've been sober for three months next Tuesday - I'd say the colours aren't so bright - but to compensate for that I've got long range vision. I can envision very clearly how I'll feel after the fourth or fifth generous jolt out of the whisky bottle.

Don't wanna go there. Not ever again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 02:38 PM

You can acknowledge that you miss the wine or spirits but at the same time know that you're better off without it. Stopping drinking hasn't helped me achieve my weight-loss goals (in the past it has) but I have more time in the evening to do things that I'd have put off after a couple of glasses of wine - being just a little sleepy or buzzed takes away a lot of productive time in the day.

Do you have an image in your mind of the self you WANT to be? Concentrate on that. Visualization is a powerful tool.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: gnu
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 03:18 PM

Oops... forgot to say in my last post that I emailed the OP. I guess my mind was preoccupied and there isn't a lot of room in there anymore. >;-) I just heard from a mutual friend. Not the news some might hope for but not terrible. Other than that, I really can't say much.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 08:19 PM

Thank you, gnu.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Elmore
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 11:41 AM

Having some health issues which may involve quitting drinking. I have alwways enjoyed a couple of drinks, but am not suicidal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: gnu
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 05:52 PM

Just spoke to the OP. I maybe shouldn't post this but I figure, since the OP reads this thread regularly (from what the OP posted), this post might be a reminder tomorrow sometime or whenever.

You said a lot of things to me. No matter about falling off the wagon and feeling shame or any of the other stuff. Only one thing matters and you know what it is. Don't cloud the issue with all that other stuff. Just take care of the one job that means so much to YOU. You did a lent the last time... 40 (almost?) days of feeling better... read all those posts again like you said helped you before.

Whatever. Call me... whatever happens, eh?

Good luck.

PS... There ain't no Huey Lewis drugs. >;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 09:04 PM

What gnu said.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: maeve
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 10:06 PM

Listen to gnu- his words are straight and true. We care about you doing what's going to keep you moving forward. You owe it to yourself; no one here is keeping a tally of failures.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Sep 12 - 11:26 AM

Don't care to sign -

What other personal goals are you working on, or would like to work on? If there is a fitness component, perhaps you can build up to a workout routine or a distance to run - the endorphins generated by exercise feel very good - and could substitute for the buzz of booze. And if you hadn't thought about it, perhaps now is the time to consider this kind of alternative "high."

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: gnu
Date: 04 Sep 12 - 04:54 PM

Elmore... I hope the health issues get sorted.

Anything other than water is poisonous, it seems, but alcohol and tobacco are extremely dangerous because they kill over time. Perhaps "fun" today and tomorrow but the day after that ya gotta pay and it ain't cheap.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 05 Sep 12 - 04:32 PM

Dani, I have the same bit of luck. All of my Uncles on my Father's side, my Father, and all of my 4 brothers had or have a drinking problem. I enjoy a drink here and there but never got hooked to the point where I couldn't stop. Hell, I've had a shitty day and I'm having a pint of Guinness to stop.
Dani, it's in one of those Guinness classes that I won at trivia night in Hillsborough.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Elmore
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 12:53 PM

Attn; Gnu Thanks for the encouraging words. Yeah, I'm paying the piper, but have enough interests such as music to ease the (figurative) pain.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: MikeL2
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 02:46 PM

Hi Big Al

<" somehow now I've been sober for three months next Tuesday">

Congratulations Al, you are getting there.

In no-one's life does the sun shine every day. But your are building up for many sunny days in the future.

Keep at it or I will personally come around and bawl at you.

Well done

Regards

MikeL2


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: kendall
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 03:30 PM

Licking an addiction is one of the very best things you can do for yourself.Go for it!


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 04:04 PM

Quitting smoking is one of the few things in my life that I am totally proud of. Quitting drinking - when it is something one needs to do - is equally pride-worthy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: GUEST,anonymous regular
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 04:54 PM

Thanks largely to Big Al's line about how it would be hell to be back at day one, I have gone 5 months as of today...and just finished the Philly Marathon this morning. Shit that hurt. But thanks to all for the encouraging words and advice above for these months.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 06:38 PM

Good work!


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 06:52 PM

I can shift wine and beer like nobody's business. Equally, I can give it a rest for a day or two. I saw someone die in their 40s of drink who was a third my size but who made me look like a crass amateur when it came to knocking it back. We're all different. I did go to AA's family support group a while back to help us handle someone else's drink problem. That was an eye-opener. We were doing everything wrong. Be aware that if you have a friend or relative who's boozing, AA run meetings that can support you too, and you do need support. Just thought I'd mention it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: gnu
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 07:56 PM

ar... good on ya!


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Max
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 08:17 PM

My name is Max, I am the founder and publisher of mudcat.org and I am an alcoholic.

I took my last drink nearly 4 years ago. I am unashamed to admit it, or anything else for that matter, a clear, easy, unavoidable and undeniable necessity AND side effect of only what I can rationalize today as a miracle.

mudcat.org will be visited by about 3 million different people this year, from over 200 different countries. Maybe I'll not get a job offer because of this post, or miss out on a date with a nice lady or two. Or maybe I'll be embarrassed or made fun of, having tainted my reputation (I know, funny I know). Or maybe someone will read it and make a decision, or maybe not be so down on themselves, feel less alone... and maybe someone will get well. I'm not seeing a downside.

Alcoholism runs through both my mother's and father's side of the family, which genetic science now explains gave my parent's children, my brother and I, a 50/50 chance of also suffering from this insidious disease. My brother is fine and healthy and has had no troubles with addiction. I am content with the draw, I made it out alive. As anyone knows who has suffered, whether it be oneself or someone they love, it is a battle sadly more often lost than won. I take pride from my victory, and it, in and of itself, makes all the consequences, wounds, scars, calluses, embarrassment and cynicism that the 20 years of fighting tattooed on my face, well worth the ante and getting to keep my seat at the table.

How did I do it? I used every fucking trick in the book. Threw absolutely everything at it. The whole arsenal. Spared no expense of money, time, energy, selflessness, selfishness, shame, fear, asking for help, support, love, tenacity, introspection, anonymous secret clubs, religions, nutrition, psychotherapy, exercise, psychoactive... uhm... things, education, experimentation, humility, out-of-my-comfort-zone-wandering, charity, brute force, 3 of 4 cardinal virtues, 6 of 7 cardinal sins, and a whole lot of whimsy. It took a lot... and I'd pay double for what I have today.

I, or any other member of my extended family, had no positive roll model for sobriety when I began my journey down and back. Chances are, this will not be the last time my family will have to deal with this issue. But now we have an awareness, a lexicon, a course of action, a network of resources, and a giant pile of love and understanding in reserve for the next poor soul who suffers. I accept the position of roll model, for 1000 lifetimes if I could, in gratitude for my miracle of clarity, health and love.

Anyone who suffers out there, call me 610-517-8858 (how to call USA), or email me max@mudcat.org day or night if you need someone to listen to you, make the investment to understand you, help you, accompany you to Wellville. I will spend my last dollar to travel to the corners of world to fight the thousand grizzly bears you probably pissed off, hold your hand until you get you where you need to be, all while holding my head high not pausing, blinking or stuttering when I call you my friend. It's worth it, by God it's worth it.

It need not define you, I am living proof that it can be set down and be done with. I am many many things. I am a rabble-rouser, raconteur, publisher, professional nerd, musician, philosopher, academic, snappy dresser, handsome-son-of-a-bitch, Father, Son, Brother, Uncle, friend, every now and again even a lover... and an alcoholic. Explaining me as any one of those things is like explaining a folk song with one version of one verse. I am just folk, and so are you.

Let me be judged not by how many times or how deeply I fell, but how high I bounced. For I am a magnificent mother fucking superball.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Max
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 08:56 PM

Mister Booze

Written by: Sammy Cahn
Written by: Jimmy Van Heusen
With Dean Martin, Sammy Davis, Jr. and Bing Crosby
Arranged By: Nelson Riddle – Nelson Riddle
From the Album: Complete Reprise Studio Recordings
Label: Reprise – Warner Brothers
Recorded: 4/10/64 – 11/14/63
-----------------------------------------------------------
(chorus) [the drunks] The rest are solos.


Booze, Mister Booze (Mister Booze), Mister Booze
Mister B double O, Z Eeee, (that sure spells booze),
You will wind up wearing tattered shoes if you mess with Mister Booze,
(Don't mess with Mister Booze, don't mess with Mister Booze.)
Don't mess with B, double o, Z, E, if you've been so simply occupied.
You'll feel better once you testify, (testify, testify)

[I want to testify, I want to testify]

Well, then cleanse yourself, my child, cleanse yourself.
Brothers and sisters, I happen to know this poor unfortunate soul,
And the fight she is waging against sin,
That old devil Booze has changed her
Into the unsightly person you see before you.
Give us your testimony, my child.

[Well, it all began with Johnny] (Yeah?)
[He said drink helped him stay alive] (Yeah?)
[Do you know how old he was when he died?] (No)
[He was twenty-five] (No. no)
[That's why I gotta come clean] (why?)
[Because I'm already seventeen]

Who's to blame? (Who's to blame?) What his name?
(We know his name, his name is.)
Mister Booze, Mister Booze, Mister B, double O, Z, E,
Don't ever choose, any game you play with him, you lose,

If your head feels like it's two miles wide,
You'll feel better once you testify (testify, testify, testify)

[I want to testify, I want to testify]

Well, come forward, dear brother, come forward.
You see here, ladies and gentlemen, a man who just last year
Was the United States Olympic heavyweight wrestling champion,
Here he is, just a shadow of his former self, wasted in health, ravaged by sin.
Oh give us your testimony, dear brother.

[I was cruel and I was mean] he was mean!
[I was a no-gooder, pickpocket] (a no-good pickpocket)
[And then you see, sin got me in its clutches now] sin got him in his clutches,
[No. I said sin was not...] Oh, I didn't hear the first part
[And that's why I need forgiving] (Why?)
['Cause my hands shake so much now, I can't even make love]

That's a shame, (what a shame) who's to blame? (Who's to blame?)
(Mister Booze, Mister Booze, Mister B, double O, Z., E. what's with you?)
(You'll make the office dupe a recluse, sister, if you dance with Mister Booze.)
(If you prince with tiffless, naughty guy,)
(You'll feel better when you testify, testify, oh yeah, testify, oh yeah, testify)

[I wanna testify. I wanna testify.]

Ah but you don't have to. [oh but I wanna] (oh let the bum testify!)
Okay, then put down that demijohn and come up forward here,
And let us lead you on the path of righteousness. Not long ago, brothers and sisters,
This helpless soul was the foremost brain surgeon in this grand and glorious country.
Success was smiling down upon him.
Now go ahead and tell us your story. Don't be shy.

[Let me tell. Let me tell. You see I use spirits for medicinal purposes only] (Yeah)
[I manufacture it for medicinal purposes only.] (yeah?)
[Then I started drinking what I manufactured till I drank myself]
[Out of a hell of a business for medicinal purposes only.] (That's right)

Now, alcohol makes a big man small and can lead to life of crime.
Drinking rum makes you skin-and-bone, and you cash in before your time.
Bootleg gin for your Mickey Finn till you don't even know your name.
You're a basket case right on your face, there's only one guy to blame.

(Oh Mister Booze, Mister Booze, Mister B, double O, Z, E, don't ever queue,)
(Don't you wind up swearing platitudes if you're mad with Mister Booze)
(Oh, Mister Booze, Don't mess, mess with Mr. Booze.)

Don't mess with B, double O. Z, E, cause that spells booze.
And you gotta lose with Mi-ister Booze. (Oh Yeah).
Don't mess around with Mister Booze.
(Don't with Mister Booze, Don't with Mister Booze.)
(What's his name now, Oh Mister Booze),
(Don't mess with Mister Booze), Oh Mister Booze, (Don't mess with Mister Booze.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: gnu
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 09:29 PM

Max... thank you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: bobad
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 09:53 PM

Max, you are an inspiration. Love the clip.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 09:59 PM

tks, Max...you and my son...i am proud of both of you!

luvyakat


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: meself
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 10:44 PM

Max, we all admired you already for your selflessness in providing this forum for a bunch of old blowhards (and a few young whipper-snappers) - now we admire you even more.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Fossil
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 01:05 AM

Max - as ever, an inspiration!

Have had my own problems, but avoided the abyss, albeit narrowly. Music pulled me through and continues to do so.

And Mudcat always helps, something new to think about every day. Thanks for doing it. Good onya mate!


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Amos
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 01:12 AM

I like you an awful lot, Max Spiegel.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 10:50 AM

Good man. Good role model. Thanks!

Maggie


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Dec 12 - 10:10 PM

here I am. still on the wagon. the last three months have bee awful. My mouth has been badly damaged by some dentistry that has ulcerated my mouth and made my tongue sore. I've got an appointment with a specialist in a couple of weeks.

I have longed for the anaesthetic of whisky. But I still dread even more that waiting to get to day two - so I've kept off the booze.

i was so enjoying gigging this summer. I'm fed up that I don't feel well enough to have gone out this Christmas.

Just re-read the thread. :et's hope the OP is in a better place than last time we heard from nim. Thanks for all the supportive messages on this thread. You really helped.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 03:28 AM

Don't know how I missed this thread in recent days/weeks but reading the updates has certainly made my day. I'll be ending my day with a big smile and a light heart. Thank you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Quitting drinking
From: Raedwulf
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 05:09 AM

Max - magnificent! Big Al - keep at it, keep winning.


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Mudcat time: 1 June 1:21 PM EDT

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