Tech: tune-o- matic bridges

Subject: RE: Tech: tune-o- matic bridges
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jul 12 - 03:52 PM

There was a time, in the 80s I think, when you took the bridge pillars out and replaced them with the tailpiece pillars. You then made or bought a combined bridge and tailpiece. This was supposed to increase sustain. If you built from new you could use a proper tailpiece although intonation would have been awful.

The pillars on the tailpiece were farther apart than the pillars for the bridge so I made my own bridge to fit. I got a piece of aluminium about 6" x 2" X 1/2". Two U shaped holes to fit around the pillars, six slots at the back to take the strings and panel pins under the strings to set the intonation. Once the correct positions were found, fretwire was slotted into place. Job done. A couple of hours work and it lasted for years.

On the professionally made ones there were grub screws which bore against the pillars and could be used to move the bridge back and extend the string length. You may still be able to buy these but I would strongly recommend checking the pillar separation distance before buying.

Subject: RE: Tech: tune-o- matic bridges
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jul 12 - 08:58 AM

Yeah, it's definitely a problematic compromise...

Setting the action higher is the only remaining way to increase the string distance
enough to correctly intone the open string.
But it's not great for overall playability.

Until I can find an affordable wider travel replacement bridge.

There is a Gotoh wide bridge for about £30
but I'm not certain that's going to be wide enough.


This is why I'm not too keen on tune-o-matic bridges.

You're at the mercy of guitar manufacturing quality control inconsistencies;
trusting that the drilled holes for seating bridge posts
have been located precisely.

Even in this age of CNC Woodworking Machinery they can still get it wrong......

Subject: RE: Tech: tune-o- matic bridges
From: GUEST,Stan
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 01:28 PM

Changing the action can also change the intonation. If you raise the action you have to push the string down farther. This increases string tension and sharpens the notes. Lowering the action has the reverse effect. I would expect a heavier gauge set of strings to be less affected by action changes.

Subject: RE: Tech: tune-o- matic bridges
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 07:24 AM

I should have been more specific for the sake of clarity:

"Each individual saddle is reversible depending on what gives furthest travel for closest 'best' intonation".

Btw, next time I try to sort out this guitar
I'll probably fit a set of heavier 11's strings
with a higher less comfortable action.
See if that'll tame the over sharp intoned Bass E string.

As a bonus, it'll definitely sound chunkier for power chords & riffs.

Subject: RE: Tech: tune-o- matic bridges
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 07:10 AM

The saddles are reversible depending on what gives furthest travel for closest 'best' intonation.

But, tune-o-matic bridges are a bugger to dismantle and reassemble,
especially the ones with the thin springy wire.

I have also been looking for an affordable replacement bridge
with extended travel distance
to deal with a problematic Bass E string.

All the USA sourced 'boutique' designer bridges are too bloody expensive
to justify importing just to fit on a slightly better than average quality
Far Eastern Les Paul copy.

Also no guarantee of compatibility between metric and old imperial measured
bridge post fitings.

Subject: RE: Tech: tune-o- matic bridges
From: GUEST,Stan
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 06:03 AM

If the original question was to do with one side of the saddles being vertical and the other angled, and which way round they go, then the answer is whichever way gives you best intonation. Look on any guitar and you'll see the bass strings are longer than the treble strings. You will get maximum adjustment on the treble strings if the vertical face points towards the tuners, and maximum adjustment on the bass strings if the vertical face is away from the tuners. The middle string saddle positions are mainly a matter of appearance.

Of course, before doing any serious intonation checks the nut must be correctly set and you should be using new strings.

Happy plonks.

Subject: RE: Tech: tune-o- matic bridges
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 05:31 AM

I watched Billy Penn's video and did not hear him say
that it doesnt matter if they "point" forward or back.

He may be describing a makeshift, and the normal "forward" direction may have a good reason. My uninformed guess is that it is about the durability of the tune-o-matic, rather than about sound.

Subject: RE: Tech: tune-o- matic bridges
From: GUEST,fogie
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 02:54 AM

Thank you leadfingers the you tube video explains that it doesnt matter if they "point" forward or back -just that you can use them either way. I wondered if the guage of the string was a factor. I also thought that the string would vibrate differently with the sliders forward or back. I also would have thought the shop would set them up for the customer. I usually have split bridges -4/2 going up from left to right on my accoustics. Does this work for all guitars?

Subject: RE: Tech: tune-o- matic bridges
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 07:00 PM

contd.:

Wrong fret positions (for a given measure of sting) do not become correct by slightly changing the measure, but they can become less wrong on average, so that the left hand can achieve correct pitches more easily. As the fiddlers say, if in doubt apply a strong vibrato.

Subject: RE: Tech: tune-o- matic bridges
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 06:51 PM

fogie: the normal position is in the middle. If for a string the high frets sound too low in relation to the empty string, move its slider in the direction of the fretboard. In the opposite case move them to the other direction. If some frets come too low and others too high, move the whole instrument back to the dealer - well, try a new string first.

Why? Fret positions roughly follow school mathematics, but only roughly so. The current mechanical condition of the string is important, but the player's individual technique has an impact as well (which may sound surprising but is evident from the fact that the left hand can produce a vibrato).

Subject: RE: Tech: tune-o- matic bridges
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 06:29 PM

Thanks, Terry - but no - I use Tele-style gear on my G&L ASAT. Sold the Les Paul years ago.

Subject: RE: Tech: tune-o- matic bridges
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 06:17 PM

The Billy Penn deals with Extra Travel on the bridge Will - Any use to you ?

Subject: RE: Tech: tune-o- matic bridges
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 01:37 PM

I've had one or two guitars with Gibson tune-o-matic bridges - never could get the bass E string to be correctly in tune.

Subject: RE: Tech: tune-o- matic bridges
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 11:55 AM

No Speaka da Tune-a-matic , but Billy Penn might help

Subject: RE: Tech: tune-o- matic bridges
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 11:44 AM

Hope this helps.

Subject: Tech: tune-o- matic bridges
From: GUEST,fogie
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 11:38 AM

Will some kind person explain which direction the six sliders should point on a tune-o-matic bridge and why.