British guitar makers

Subject: British guitar makers - recommendations?
From: matt milton
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 08:21 AM

There's probably already been a Mudcat thread on this at some point but..

I've been on a bit of a quest for a new acoustic guitar for bluesy fingerstyle playing. It came to an end recently, with the purchase of a secondhand Guild F-50 jumbo.

But along the way, I played an Elysian jumbo guitar, all hand-made by the Blackheath-based luthier Matthew Carter.

I came very close to buying it. The main thing that stopped me was the price (it was out of my budget) and the feeling that it didn't quite have the bassy, beefy whoompf that I really wanted from a jumbo guitar.

In all other ways it was the nicest guitar I've ever played. It was the most balanced and articulate tone I've ever heard; amazingly clear and loud. And "woody", in a way that made the large Eastman dreadnought I tried for comparison sound totally plastic.

Anyway, it's made me think that next year, I might, possibly, commission a luthier to make me a guitar, if my income over the next six months can justify it.

I'm keen to hear of any recommendations/reviews anyone might share of British guitar-makers. Particularly British guitar-makers that might specialise in jumbo shapes, or fat 1930s style designs.

Atkin guitars, for instance, look particularly interesting from that point of view...

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 08:42 AM

Lowden
Fylde
Northworthy
Brook
Atkin
Dave King
Ralph Bown
John Le Voi

to name but a few.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: matt milton
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 08:59 AM

thanks. have you played any of those? any thoughts?

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 09:06 AM

Got a Lowden (my 2nd). It's an O-25, 'jumbo' size, very well-built, extremely loud and woody. Completely different sound to my Martins.

Played a number of Fyldes - very 'English-sounding'. Record very well (think Bob Fox's guitar sound). Blues maestro Eric Bibb plays a signature-model Fylde.

Played a couple of Brooks, both small-bodied. Beautifully built, very loud.

Allan Taylor used to play a Ralph Bown - rich, woody and loud.

I forgot to mention Stefan Sobell in my first post, but you'd need to be prepared to wait a long time and pay a very great deal of money for one of his guitars. They're worth waiting and paying for, though!.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 09:08 AM

Stefan Sobell being the builder of a number of Martin Simpson's guitars.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: DebC
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 09:09 AM

Rob Armstrong has made guitars for a lot of folkies.

Debra

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 09:16 AM

If you want a fantastic, custom-built guitar at a reasonable price, can I recommend Ian Chisholm in Ditchling in Sussex. He's made me a number of instruments, and they're all superb in feel, projection and tone.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 09:19 AM

Here's a Chisholm mid-jumbo in action:

Vestapol

I'm using Elixir .012 Nanoweb phosphor bronze strings here. The guitar has a monstrous bass and huge projection. And, if you're good, he'll even throw in fret markers. :-)

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: DebC
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 09:31 AM

Totally forgot about Ian. Please give him my best when you see him.

Debra

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 09:37 AM

Will do Deb - he's off to Cornwall tomorrow but we'll be meeting up sometime in early August for a band gig.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 10:11 AM

Try giving Jonathon Kinkade in Bristol a look, he builds superb guitars and you'll probably have to wait a year for him to build one to your specifications.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 10:23 AM

Nic Jones played a Fylde.

Dave H

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 10:24 AM

I suspect that Fyldes and Lowdens will be a bit more ringing than woody. If I could only remember what it is that PJ of PJ's music plays, I think that's the sound you are looking for. Any of the people he regularly deafens in sessions should be able to tell you - I think it's a Martin or a Gibson but it is not one of the usual suspects.

I have only heard good of Kinkades - but have never heard one up close and personal. Armstrongs are lovely but the body is usually a bit smaller and the sound probably less thumpy, but magnificent projection.

Max liked (and so do others) my Mugen THE-78 and careful hunting on ebay will get you one (or the identical Daion THE-78) for under £500, but they are more ringing than woody, although the bass is both big and long.

My late wife turned her nose up at an Atkin when I offered her one but it did have an interesting dark sound - probably OM sized.

An off-the-wall suggestion is Will Lancaster from Gravesend. He built Paul Steele a guitar that started life I think as a Martin kit but got modified - because Paul did not want to take his Zemaitus out to nasty rough places (and that Zemaitus stomped like a brontosaurus) and I haven't seen Paul out with the Z for years - he always plays the Lancaster.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: GUEST,John Foxen
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 10:28 AM

I recommend Richard Bartram. He's based in the depths of the Cambridgeshire fens but his workshop is well worth a visit. He builds in numerous styles but can customise.
He's an excellent jazz and blues player and it shows in his guitar making.
I've had mine for more than 30 yearsand wouldn't part with it.

http://www.richardbartram.com/

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: GUEST,Charles Macfarlane
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 10:32 AM

> From: GUEST,Raggytash
>
> Try giving Jonathon Kinkade in Bristol a look, he builds superb guitars and you'll probably have to wait a year for him to build one to your specifications.

I'll second that. I have custom-built Kinkade model - Jumbo/Dreadnought/Cutaway - which is absolutely gorgeous, both in sound and looks.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 10:41 AM

I recommend the Lewes guitar makers:

Richard Osborne
Nick Benjamin
Pablo Requena Spanish Guitars
Rohan Lowe
Alexander Batov
Charlie Crabtree
Stephen Hill, who founded the Lewes Guitar Festival.

Valmai (Lewes)

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Chris Green
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 10:42 AM

I'd second Rob Armstrong. I have a 2008 jumbo-ish guitar and 1988 mandocello of his. They're both better than anything else I've every played.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 10:56 AM

One of the problems with asking for recommendations is that people will all recommend what they have, and claim that their particular builder is unquestionably THE best!

The real answer is to get around and TRY different builders' guitars, and pick the one that speaks to you best. No-one can tell you what your ears hear and your hands feel.

In the world of guitars there is no truer adage than "One man's meat is another man's poison".

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 11:00 AM

In the world of guitars there is no truer adage than "One man's meat is another man's poison".

Nothing truer, Backwoodsman. To which I would add: One man's budget is another man's overdraft!

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: matt milton
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 11:20 AM

"The real answer is to get around and TRY different builders' guitars, and pick the one that speaks to you best. No-one can tell you what your ears hear and your hands feel.

In the world of guitars there is no truer adage than "One man's meat is another man's poison".

Absolutely: I tried out about 40 different guitars over the last week before I decided on the Guild F50.

But there are a hell of a lot of guitar makers in the UK: I just wanted some names and descriptions to start with. Especially as the thunky, low-end-heavy sound that I'm after isn't what a lot of British folk players favour.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 11:23 AM

If you've got SEVERAL grand, try a Z. If you can find one. Yes, I took what you said into account in making suggestions.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Green Man
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 11:24 AM

I have a Northworthy 'Carsington'. I have had Martin's and various other makes but this is exceptional. English style classic body but very loud and mellow.

Alan Marshall will make one to your spec. I bought a standard build and I have had it about 15 years. Absolutley the best guitar made in England.

GM

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 11:38 AM

"Alan Marshall will make one to your spec. I bought a standard build and I have had it about 15 years. Absolutley the best guitar made in England."

There you go! What did I just say!

"Nothing truer, Backwoodsman. To which I would add: One man's budget is another man's overdraft!"

Absolutely, Will! However, as I don't smoke, don't drink, don't waste money on stupid cars, and my kids are long grown up, my budget is somewhat higher nowadays than it used to be. Advancing age does have some advantages! :-) :-)

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Green Man
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 11:42 AM

One guitar for 15 years or several not so good ones over that period will work out to about the same money.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Leadfingers
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 11:52 AM

Terry Docherty gets a reccomendation from me - He's a bit like Maccaferri - an acoustic engineer as well as a maker (AND Gigging Muso
as well) www.terrydochertyguitars.com/

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: theleveller
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 12:05 PM

I've had a Lowden 010C for the last 15 yeasr and it is amazing - huge, dark sound with bags of bass and ideal for alterered tunings (Csus is my favourite). I also have a small-bodied Avalon (who took over George Lowden's factory)in Brazilian Rosewood, that is brighter than the Lowden but very sweet.

If you're looking for a Sobell sound-alike at a (slightly) lower price, check out the beautiful instruments made by N K Forster who worked with Stefan for many years.

The great thing about good handmade guitars is that they usually appreciate in value over the years.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 12:25 PM

Csus what?, Leveller?

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: theleveller
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 02:41 PM

Csus2 (Modal). CGCGCD. It's usually just called Csus or C2.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: GUEST,Charles Macfarlane
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 02:55 PM

> From: theleveller
>
> Brazilian Rosewood

That's another important factor that is often overlooked. Many guitar makers are not too fussy about ensuring that the timber they buy has been felled legally under sustainable management - for example, has an FSC certificate. I beg anyone considering buying a new instrument that has wood in its construction to ensure that the timber used has come from legal, sustainable sources.

Currently, AIUI, timber is being felled illegally in the Amazon basin, in Madagascar, in Indonesia, and probably in many other countries as well.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: theleveller
Date: 24 Jul 12 - 04:30 AM

I've got the FSC certificate, Charles. More and more guitar makers are searching for old wood. I recenty played a wonderful Patrick James Eggle all-mahogany parlour guitar made from an old bank counter. Peter Barton from Ilkley has a stock of old Brazilian Rosewoon that he calls his 'pension'.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jul 12 - 04:47 AM

A few years ago George Lowden used timber from old pews recovered from a church which was being demolished. Presumably mahogany? A great idea for recycling old wood.

Pete, thanks for reminding me about Peter Barton! How could I forget about him - another excellent British builder.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 24 Jul 12 - 04:57 AM

Csus2 is a favourite tuning of Martin Simpson - makes a lovely sound. Doesn't Kate Rusby play one of Peter Barton's guitars? Yep, just answered my own question, you can see it here.
Beautiful.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jul 12 - 07:50 AM

I believe she has a couple of them.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: theleveller
Date: 24 Jul 12 - 11:45 AM

Yes, and John McCusker has one of his citterns. He lives next door to some friends of mine in Addingham and has a workshop in his back garden. Nice guy, too.

George Lowden recxently made some guitars from old Bushmills barrels - he told me they sound amazinvgly woody and the smell is intoxicating!

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jul 12 - 05:06 AM

Yes, Roger Bucknall (Fylde) does similar with his 'Malt Whisky' range of instruments. Never heard one 'in the flesh' but they look remarkable in the photos!

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 25 Jul 12 - 11:00 AM

I'm another fan of Ian Chisholm guitars. His instruments might not have quite the perfection of finish of, say, a Nick Benjamin, but they sound great. Very close to the sound quality of a Benjamin at about half the price.

He's very versatile and once he knows what you're looking for he'll try his best to achieve it. I have his No 30 (it's on YouTube but I can't access the URL from this machine...search Ian Chisholm Guitar No 30 and it should come up).

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: theleveller
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 04:00 AM

I seem to remember hearing that David Oddy made one of Steve Knightley's (or was it Chris Wood's) guitars from an old telephone exchange.

Brook guitars are also excellent. I played one of Steve Tilston's during a sound check and was very taken with it. Ewan Maclennan also has one. Ahhh....so many great guitars, so little money!

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 05:02 AM

"Ahhh....so many great guitars, so little money!"

Aaahh, yup! But I guess we should be grateful for what we have! :-)

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: theleveller
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 06:04 AM

Too true, John - I'd never let the Lowden go. But after I've won the Euromillions tomorrow, I'll be filling the new mansion with hand-made British guitars.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Kit Griffiths
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 06:07 AM

Andy Manson (www.andymanson.co.uk). (He also built me an Appalachian 4-string dulcimer about 30 years ago -a prized possession!)

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Zen
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 09:40 AM

Gary Nava (video of Phile Hare playing one) and I'd also second Andy Manson, his Kingfisher model I had back in the 80s was exceptional.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: matt milton
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 10:47 AM

I was just looking at the exhibitors at the London Acoustic Guitar show, and a similar guitar show in Bristol, and thinking it's a shame that, among the luthiers mentioned in this thread, only Lowden are exhibiting at either.

Hmmmm, makes me think someone should organise an annual acoustic guitar show solely for independent luthiers.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: GUEST,John I
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 11:46 AM

Mick Johnson, based in Reading is a fantastic guitar builder.
The 000 shown on his web site belongs to my son.

http://mickjohnsonguitars.com/

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: tritoneman
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 07:24 AM

I seem to remember hearing that David Oddy made one of Steve Knightley's (or was it Chris Wood's) guitars from an old telephone exchange. The Leveller

I think Dave Oddy made quite a few guitars from the mahogany counter from the old post office in Exeter.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: GUEST,mattkeen
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 09:09 AM

Brook and Atkin I know well
as in owned and played
The thunk you seem to be describing I associate with Dreadnought size Martins.
Brit makers were sort of an antidote to Martin really. IMO
Though Atkin does a sort of J45 that is the model that Kris Drever from Lau uses

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: GUEST,mattkeen
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 09:11 AM

The David Oddy telephone exchange guitar was Chris Wood's original one that David gave/permanently lent him. He subsequently had a pretty much identical one made by David

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: theleveller
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 09:59 AM

""

'I was just looking at the exhibitors at the London Acoustic Guitar show, and a similar guitar show in Bristol, and thinking it's a shame that, among the luthiers mentioned in this thread, only Lowden are exhibiting at either.

Hmmmm, makes me think someone should organise an annual acoustic guitar show solely for independent luthiers.'

You should have been at Acoustic Avalon in Leicester. Lots of brilliant luthiers. Had a nice chat to George Lowden, Patrick James Eggle, Paul Brett and others. It's on every year - give it a go!

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 12:39 PM

If you can track him down try the reclusive and utterly mad but brilliant Gary Hearn. Expensive, but his guitars really do change lives and believe me, no-one and I mean no-one, gets anywhere near. About five years ago he walked into my kitchen waving a piece of wood and saying "I've just realised where Greg Smallman is going wrong with John Williams guitars." Six months later he's sitting in the Royal Albert Hall watching his guitar being played by a guest soloist in front of the Royal Philharmonic.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Roughyed
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 06:08 PM

To go back to the original message in this thread, I tried an Elysian guitar out at Ivor Mairants as part of a long trek to find my next guitar. I thought it was exceptional value. Very clear and beautiful tone and well balanced. If I only fingerpicked I might have walked out with it but I also flat pick and strum some songs and it just didn't work for them. I'm still considering it though- incredible quality for the money

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: ollaimh
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 12:15 AM

no one mentioned moon. i heard one played by mathew ord at the cecil sharp house and it was very nice--and they aren't too expensive.

really high end guitars are getting pricey. i have plaeded two sobels and they were fantastic, esspecially for the finger picker but they are pricey.i played one flyde and it was nice but a it too bright and uncomplicatd in tone--i like overons and moody sounds, even in a bright guitar--which the flyde certainly was bright

i have an old mahogony lowden jumbo, made by him, that's a greatguitar and cost me $1700. i actually prefer mahogony for his jumbos. and i have one of his japanese made factory guitars that is warmer in soud but not as loud or bright, but it survived a fire and has a lot of odd cracks etc. much water damage. its the world's best beach guitar.

being canadian i don't often get to play british made guitars. however i have heard several people rave aout chisolm recently.

if i had my choice with money no issue i'd get a sobel, but for a complex great guitar at a reasonable price i like lowdens

however being canadian i have several canadian guitars--we have alot of great builders as well. and i have a beat up fifties gibson j 45 that has the woody tone people pray for. very loud and prety well balanced. the high e string gets lost so i put an a guage string on their to give it some definition. i didn't much like gibson's untill i played this one.

if i had to go down to one guitar it would be a tight race between a lowden or a canadian made ted thompson, so go lowden, they are very versitile guitars.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jul 16 - 04:36 AM

Www.raycooperguitars.com
British handmade stringed instruments. An amazing craftsman, building instruments for over 40 years! Customers include Status Quo, Bad Company, Wishbone Ash, Chas & Dave,
John Cadman royal albert hall soloist. Rush, Danny Thompson.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: GUEST,Ted Crum (Steamchicken)
Date: 28 Jul 16 - 12:44 PM

Surprised no-one has mentioned my old mate Martin Cole, who has been making superb instruments for the likes of Gordon Giltrap and Steve Tilston over the past thirty years.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 16 - 03:58 AM

Terry Docherty has made a Gittern for Steve Tilston. I have one of Terrys guitars and one of his Citterns and they're amazing instruments. I also have a 1978 Fylde Oberon but I much prefer the Docherty guitar.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: GUEST,Quest
Date: 29 Jul 16 - 06:52 AM

I can thoroughly recommend a McIlroy guitar.
Dee McIlroy has been making superb guitars for many years now. He is a perfectionist in his work and a gentleman to deal with.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jul 16 - 07:13 AM

Hello Ted!

I think I might have mentioned Martin in another thread a good while ago. I'm not sure that he's still making guitars these days....? Always worth checking him out, of course. His guitars are brilliant.

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: GUEST,mooman
Date: 29 Jul 16 - 07:22 AM

I'm surpised no-one had mentioned the excellent Rory Dowling of Taran Guitars

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 16 - 06:51 PM

Equqlly surprised, nobody mentioned the excellent guitars by Barry Price Robinson from Newton Aycliffe Co. Durham.

His BPR guitars are world class!

Subject: RE: British guitar makers
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 16 - 06:52 PM

Equally....