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BS: Olympics opening ceremony

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EBarnacle 27 Jul 12 - 07:58 PM
GUEST 27 Jul 12 - 08:10 PM
GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 27 Jul 12 - 08:11 PM
EBarnacle 27 Jul 12 - 08:33 PM
EBarnacle 27 Jul 12 - 08:45 PM
gnu 27 Jul 12 - 09:15 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 27 Jul 12 - 09:26 PM
GUEST,Raggytash 27 Jul 12 - 09:36 PM
EBarnacle 27 Jul 12 - 10:01 PM
EBarnacle 27 Jul 12 - 11:26 PM
EBarnacle 27 Jul 12 - 11:48 PM
Big Al Whittle 27 Jul 12 - 11:49 PM
ollaimh 27 Jul 12 - 11:51 PM
open mike 28 Jul 12 - 02:25 AM
GUEST,.garg 28 Jul 12 - 02:40 AM
Backwoodsman 28 Jul 12 - 03:08 AM
Little Robyn 28 Jul 12 - 04:01 AM
John MacKenzie 28 Jul 12 - 04:23 AM
Backwoodsman 28 Jul 12 - 05:37 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 28 Jul 12 - 05:47 AM
ChrisJBrady 28 Jul 12 - 05:58 AM
Big Al Whittle 28 Jul 12 - 06:02 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 28 Jul 12 - 06:07 AM
theleveller 28 Jul 12 - 06:26 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 28 Jul 12 - 07:18 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Jul 12 - 07:23 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 28 Jul 12 - 07:32 AM
GloriaJ 28 Jul 12 - 07:37 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Jul 12 - 07:40 AM
theleveller 28 Jul 12 - 08:11 AM
Bonzo3legs 28 Jul 12 - 08:36 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 28 Jul 12 - 09:03 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Jul 12 - 09:14 AM
artbrooks 28 Jul 12 - 09:17 AM
Stu 28 Jul 12 - 09:21 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 28 Jul 12 - 09:41 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Jul 12 - 09:41 AM
EBarnacle 28 Jul 12 - 10:10 AM
GUEST,Andy Shandy 28 Jul 12 - 10:21 AM
GUEST,kendall 28 Jul 12 - 10:47 AM
melodeonboy 28 Jul 12 - 11:04 AM
MikeL2 28 Jul 12 - 11:33 AM
GUEST,Andy Shandy 28 Jul 12 - 11:37 AM
Penny S. 28 Jul 12 - 11:39 AM
Jeri 28 Jul 12 - 11:42 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 28 Jul 12 - 11:47 AM
SINSULL 28 Jul 12 - 12:16 PM
Bill D 28 Jul 12 - 12:46 PM
Arkie 28 Jul 12 - 01:29 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 28 Jul 12 - 01:44 PM

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Subject: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 07:58 PM

I can't believe they just did Danny Boy. With so much better music available, how could they use something so trite?


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 08:10 PM

Are you sure they weren't singing "Danny Boyle" ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 08:11 PM

It was FABULOUS, from start to finish....Well done, Danny Boyle, and everyone concerned..


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 08:33 PM

I got a real kick out of the QE 2 stand in doing the parachute entrance. The corgies looked sort of sad at being left out, tho.

Why did her majesty look so grim during "God Save the Queen?" She sure lit up immediately after, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 08:45 PM

Definitely enjoyed the salute to Brit kiddy lit but where were the hobbits?


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 09:15 PM

I got a laugh out of Atkinson.

The bit with Beth and 007 was "good with anticipation" to start with... I was pleased to see her play along with it.

I don't think the TV captured it well. For me, anyway. I spent a fair bit of time wondering what was actually going on. The general theme was good but the small screen just didn't display the details clearly... men in top hats and tails dancing to music that didn't seem to fit struck me as odd, among others.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 09:26 PM

The first part on rural Britain and the Industrial Revolution was brilliant. Perhaps a bit more on marine exploits could have been added.

Danny Boy is universally appreciated. The perfect selection.

Hobbits- I would have preferred a salute to Tolkien rather than Rowling.
He said so much that is memorable. Two lines that would apply to England as portrayed in Danny Boyle's evocation:

The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 09:36 PM

Happily I missed it all, as I will the rest !


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 10:01 PM

Definitely enjoyed the Brit history of rock. Rock on. The commercials definitely detracted from the proceedings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 11:26 PM

It is driving me nuts that neither the TV commentators nor members of the organizing committee seem able to pronounce the names of people or nations as the people being named would be pronouncing them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 11:48 PM

That torch was magnificent.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 11:49 PM

the lead singer in Snow patrol did their song quite well, but he couldn't stay in key for Come together - allover the place. the guitar was a bit iffy as well. Should have got Macca - at least our generation sung in tune occasionally.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: ollaimh
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 11:51 PM

my wife made me watch. what was with the big grassy hill where the speakers podium was? was that a hill fort replica? maybe be hobbitton? or a piece of england's green and pleasant land?

it was silly either way. the whole thing was pretty silly. glad i was drinking sparkling wine and relaxing after a concert preceeded y a twenty kilometer bike ride. i was nodding off


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: open mike
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 02:25 AM

the hill represented Glastonbury Tor.
Were any mudcats involved?
What? no Morris Dancers?!
During the opening ceremonies of the Olympics, there was a spot light on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee,said to be the "inventor of the World Wide Web" I did not know about him, did you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: GUEST,.garg
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 02:40 AM

www.guardian.co.uk/sport/london-2012-olympics-blog/2012/jul/27/olympics-2012-pictures

Did a good job of coverage...combined with good tweeters...the slum -dog atmosphere was certainly captured.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle
   from the sheep shagging to the pickpockets they portrayed that green turf called England in an honest light.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 03:08 AM

"the lead singer in Snow patrol did their song quite well, but he couldn't stay in key for Come together"

Ummmm, maybe that's because it wasn't Snow Patrol. It was Sheffield's finest, Arctic Monkeys, Al!

But you're right, he missed the key completely in 'Come Together' (maybe someone switched his in-ear-monitoring off?).


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: Little Robyn
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 04:01 AM

I thought the ending was a bit weak - on telly anyway - when Paul stood up to conduct the whole arena, they may have heard it but he vanished from TV - soundwise.
I really enjoyed Rowan Atkinson!
Robyn


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 04:23 AM

I caught a glimpse of members of Team GB (sic) running towards the camera shot, screaming and girning, as I popped my head in to say goodnight to the staff.
I do love the way we show our best dignified side to the world, don't you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 05:37 AM

Wonder why they always insist on dragging McCartney out for this kind of thing? He's so over the hill, embarrassingly so - I cringed all the way though his spots at the Jubilee concert and last night. Awful, absolutely the low-spot of an otherwise excellent Opening Ceremony.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 05:47 AM

Re #OlympicCeremony on #BBC2012, Beijing: 90% Chinese culture/London: 90% everybody else's culture - as I feared http://walkaboutsverse.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/walkaboutsverse-143-of-230.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 05:58 AM

Her Maj. had a face like thunder all night - I wonder why. Even her announcement of the opening of the games had the tone of "I really don't want to be here."

You can see the 007 clip at:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19008471

Use ExpatShield if overseas.

The Rowan Atkinson skit is on YouTube - but the clips keep getting blocked. When available can be downloaded using any number of YouTube downloading apps.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 06:02 AM

well of course Macca is over the hill - but he usually has enough sense to have people round him who can rise to a guitar riff - rather than wobbling about in mid competence.

If they're dragging in the industrial revolution, what better than a piece of archaeology like Macca. Perhaps they should have got Jimmy Tarbuck to tell some jokes - then the whole world would see the true depth of suffering for England's huddled masses.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 06:07 AM

""Happily I missed it all, as I will the rest !""

So, why not take your negative attitude with you, as you now have nothing of interest to add.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: theleveller
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 06:26 AM

To be honest, I found it cringe-makingly embarrassing. I kept covering my face and shouting "What will people think of us when they see this?" Really, is that the perception of Britain that we want other countries to have of us? And what was all that about the NHS when this uncaring government is destroying it. The part that really rang true was when there were two children sleeping in each hospital bed - said it all for me. The whole thing was like The Goodies in Tellytubby Land (what was that Tellytubby hill all about?).

The part I found very moving was the actual parade of competitors - especially the small, poor countries that had such pride even though there was only two or three of them. But why was the USA team dressed in Paramilitary gear - definite overtones of Nuremberg there?

The torch at the end was AMAZING!


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 07:18 AM

#OlympicCeremony on #BBC2012, and the worst dressed award goes to..?..like their collars, starts with G...

I agree about the cauldron, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 07:23 AM

The 'torch' [I take it you meant 'cauldron'] was the work of the gifted Thomas Heatherwick, whose "B Of The Bang" sculpture was so striking at the 2002 Commonwealth Games in Manchester, but unhappily proved to be unstable & a bit dangerous and had to be, first isolated, and then destroyed. This piece should last out its scheduled life, though.

Don T ~ No use using logic on the likes of whoever posted that stupid negative remark, alas. Such idiots genuinely believe we are all agog to know what they are going to be spending the next fortnight, not doing; the conceited oafs!.

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 07:32 AM

Interesting comment Wysywyg, I don't agree with you therefore I am not welcome to put my point of view, I seem to recall a similar state of affairs bludgeoning in Germany in the 1930's.

If people want to watch the Olympics that fine by me, however I do find the constant reference to the event in everything from the BBC news to adverts for washing up liquid tedious.

My point of view is, I believe, as valid as anyone elses' or perhaps you consider that I should be shot because I have not gone along with all the hyperbole that has lead up to the games.

Cue Jessie Owens.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: GloriaJ
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 07:37 AM

I've never seen any of the previous opening ceremonies, but I thought this was great.It avoided the cliches of Henry VIII, etc and at times seemed to be a dramatisation of "The Making Of The English Working Class". The music I thought really effective was Evelyn Glennie and her 1000 drummers - must have been really powerful live.The whole thing seemed very english ( in spite of the n.irish,welsh and scottish contributions) and I thought they achieved a good balance between the acceptable face of patriotism and good humour.
I quite like these sporting spectaculars ( as long as its not f..ing football) because I've recently taken up the cello and I know I'll progress in leaps and bounds over the next few weeks.I always play while such things are on - The Tour de France is always good in this repect - hours of it every day.There's six hours of cycling today - what's not to like?!


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 07:40 AM

Watch or don't watch what you like, Tash. But why do you imagine we should be interested? Your post didn't agree or disagree with anything or put any point of view in any meaningful sense. It merely told us what you won't be doing for the next couple of weeks ~~ info, as I said above, we were all agog [nay positively wetting our knickers] for!

You conceited booby!

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: theleveller
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 08:11 AM

Cauldron, eh? Maybe we should have had a reading from Macbeth rather than The Tempest (or maybe the Mabinogion).

Just asked my son when the rugby is on and he says it isn't included. WHAT!!!!%&*()*&^%$£"!!!. The most civilised game in the world and it's been left out! However, a little research indicates that 7s will be included again in 2016 - and that, in 1924, it was won by the Americans!!!! Damn travesty, I say :)

I won't be watching much as I'm not a very sporty person, but what I am quite looking forward to is seeing sports which don't usually get much coverage, especially fencing and archery.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 08:36 AM

Polo isn't included either. We will watch our recording with finger poised on fast forward!


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 09:03 AM

Agree with TheLeveller about the 7s and different sports being broadcast. But find Polo cruel - http://walkaboutsverse.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/walkaboutsverse-146-of-230.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 09:14 AM

Sorry ~~ I suppose I shouldn't have been so rude in my last post. Apologies to all for bringing down the tone of the thread.

But I am constantly exercised by this compulsion some appear to suffer:

to open threads on topics in which they are not interested, for no purpose except to assert their uninterest in tones of priggish self-satisfied superiority, and thus implicitly to sneer at those low enough to find of interest something so much beneath the notice of their imperious mightinesses;

which is what it seemed to me that Raggy was doing.

Why, though? What is the point? what possible satisfaction does anyone get from any such perverse procedure?

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: artbrooks
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 09:17 AM

The US team in paramilitary gear?? The ones I saw were wearing blue blazers, white trou or skirts and blue sissy berets...didn't resemble any military that I know of.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: Stu
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 09:21 AM

I loved it. Thought it was representative of ordinary people, the music was brilliant, Branagh quoted my favourite verse from Will and McCartney is God, and whilst not in the first flush of youth is still the man.

Great to watch Cameron sat there why the NHS was celebrated so passionately, whilst he's trying to destroy it. It might begin to dawn on him now . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 09:41 AM

"McCartney is God" SJ...as an Englishman, he has put a lot of time and effort into copying an aspect of American culture - pop - and become good (NOT God!) at it. I admire, rather, those who are good at their OWN native culture.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 09:41 AM

@artbrooks ~~ berets here, especially with badges, as those had, are associated here with the military; are indeed the standard headgear of most arms of the service. Hence the military look to us.

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: EBarnacle
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 10:10 AM

Actually, the blazer started out as naval gear, when the captain of HMS Blazer mandated the style for his officers. This was in the era when uniforms were not uniform.

Ralph Lauren did design rather handsome outfits. It's a shame they were made in China.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: GUEST,Andy Shandy
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 10:21 AM

Come on admit it.
At least half you old goats only watch the women's events
for the ever increasingly tight stretched competitive sports fabrics
giving the vaguest hope for zoomed in close up camel toes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 10:47 AM

I don't watch any sports at all.
I think the opening ceremony should have been hanging Mitt Romney by his tongue!


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: melodeonboy
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 11:04 AM

I thought the rural to industrial bit was fairly imaginative.

The NHS bit I found slightly bizarre, although well-intentioned.

The massed drummers were really powerful.

What was that droning electronic music in the first part for? It seemed to go on for ever!

The paucity of traditional British music was a disappoinment for me.

I watched it until they started that "medley" of naff 70s pop songs, then reached for the off button!


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: MikeL2
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 11:33 AM

hi

I thought that most of the presentation was very good. Many of the cast were volunteers and whilst maybe occasionally the odd mistake could be detected, I thought that added to the charm.

I agree with others about Paul McCartney's spot. Did nothing for me. I thought he appeared very nervous and the band did not seem together. As someone said earlier there was some problem with the sound systems.

Enjoyed the torch arriving from the river and then the lighting of the Cauldron was magnificent. And nice touch choosing a group of potential future athletes was a good one.

I thought it was a good idea not to try to outdo the Beijing performance. Well done by all.

I like sport but will choose carefully the parts that I want to watch.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: GUEST,Andy Shandy
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 11:37 AM

QUOTE "I like sport but will choose carefully the parts that I want to watch."

QUOTE "Come on admit it.
At least half you old goats only watch the women's events
for the ever increasingly tight stretched competitive sports fabrics
giving the vaguest hope for zoomed in close up camel toes."



Hmmmmm ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: Penny S.
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 11:39 AM

I thought the special effects transformation of rural to industrial was brilliant, and I wish that films still used more of that sort of thing than CGI.
Didn't see all of it, though, as I was at a colleague's farewell do, with vision but no sound - I can't describe what music was on during the memorial to 7/7 instead of Abide with Me, but it was NOT appropriate. (I gather NBC cut that bit for some reason.)
I thought the choice of Danny Boy was odd (but hadn't noticed the pun), but I suppose it would have come up if people were asked "What do English, Irish, Scots and Welsh sing?" which would explain "Guide me" instead of "Gwlad, gwlad). Liked the Giant's Causeway choice, though, but that's the geologist strand of my brain.
Did you notice Ratty and Mole up on the headwaters of the Thames? A tiny brief glimpse - I had to rewind, pause and get really close to the screen to confirm them. A foretaste of the literature section - no E. Nesbit, no Just William, no Jennings, no Stevenson, no Lewis, and as someone else has said, no Tolkein.
Someone reported on the radio that a Tory MP has complained it was too left wing. Twit.

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 11:42 AM

What I remember...
Chimneys, chimney sweeps and imagining Dick Van Dyke would pop up somewhere. Multiple Mary Popinses with umbrellas and imagining Dick Van Dyke would pop up somewhere.
Sheep and maypoles, some molten iron and guys with hammers, drums, shirtless image of Bowie, black & white harlequin patterned spandex onesies, some couple and a cell phone lost and found, then they danced, and all the while some music was playing. The music involved a couple bars of a couple hundred songs, in rapid succession.

..and then, as George Takei wrote on Facebook "A ring was forged and bound the other rings above a smoke-laden waste before the Eye of Sauron rose."


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 11:47 AM

Given that London is in England, there should have been a lot more of this - http://davidfranks.blogspot.co.uk/p/some-english-dances-instruments.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 12:16 PM

I watched parts of the finale. Interesting to see how some countries seemed overwhelmed and unable to just relax and smile while others romped thru the proceedings. The doves of peace on bicycles was a bit much.
Could they not find a more dignified way to include Mohammed Ali? It was painful to watch his wife trying to get him to salute. Shameful.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 12:46 PM

It was a mixed offering.... Like others, I thouroughly enjoyed the first parts, was bemused by the NHS section, though it WAS well done.... and unimpressed by the pop music section.

I have no idea why Muhammed Ali needed 'one more tribute'...but *shrug*

I had no sound problems with the McCartney performance. It came thru fine, and I was surprised at MYSELF for thinking it was quite moving. (NBC commentators said he was genuinely moved himself, and was a bit 'off' for the first few notes.)

Now... the one thing *I* didn't understand was the inclusion and length of the "Mr. Bean" segment. It has been years since I had seen him at all.. (he simply is not an icon in the US). It was vaguely cute... but impressed me as a simplistic version of a Victor Borgé routine. Ah, well... I suppose it is just a UK thing.

All-in-all, I was quite happy and delighted with the feeling & creativity and the way the whole ceremony expressed the essence of the UK.... and as for the queen? "Her Maj. had a face like thunder all night - I wonder why. "...well, she had just parachuted from a helicopter! *grin*... but there was just a hint of a smile as children from all over the UK finished singing to her!


Well done Britain!


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: Arkie
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 01:29 PM

My impression was that Brits should be proud of the way they were represented. The opening of the Olympics is usually an opportunity to give the world a taste of the host country and I thought that was done creatively, with drama and with humor and respectfully. I particularly liked the opening and the transition from rural to industrial. But also enjoyed the Queen parachuting into the stadium and Mr. Bean's appearance. Also liked the portrayal of Great Briton's contribution to children's literature and the fact that the country should be proud of its medical system and there was much more. Even made me a bit proud of my English, Welsh, and Scots ancestry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Olympics opening ceremony
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 01:44 PM

Overall an A-, but I realize I am in a minority when it comes to current pop music. My favorite English groups are The Tallis Scholars and the like.

I watched again the opening rural to industrial revolution segment, and still found it brilliant.
The casting of the 5th ring fitted the theme excellently.
Glennie and the drums were a good selection to back up the rapid evolution of UK life.

I remember airlines (American and Canadian) that regularly showed short skits with that Mr. Bean as "entertainment". I thought they were bad then, and he has gone downhill.

The UK did much to advance nursing and the modern hospital, and NHS. Many of the billion who watched around the world would not be aware of this and may have wondered at the segment.

I am not a fan of modern poplar music, so I dozed during much of this segment, but I realize that I am totally out of step with that aspect of current culture. The Beetles and similar groups from UK took an American form and developed it into something more personal, but confinement of this segment to pop and ending with that talky-talk naval-gazing complaint leaves me stone cold dead in the market.


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Mudcat time: 27 May 8:17 AM EDT

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