BS: Where now Thatcher haters?

Subject: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 12:46 PM


As I have said many times before, to wish for the death of ANYONE, says more about the person wishing it, than the person wished upon.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 01:09 PM

Wishing for the death of and 86 year old with no power and only vestiges of prestige seems pretty pointless. As does reacting to those wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,sturgeon
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 01:23 PM

I'm still with Elvis on this one.

Tramp the Dirt Down

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Musket
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 01:25 PM

True. But on the other hand, it is possible to separate the person from the figure and I won't be shedding a tear when she goes.

As a striking miner in '84, the then Prime Minister of my country, elected by the people of the country called me and my colleagues the enemy within. Think about that. How many signatures on pieces of paper was she from being another Stalin? For her sake, she should be long gone when the documents are released showing whether the sinking of The belgrano was a military or political decision.

Most ex miners have dodgy knees, me included. So it doesn't matter whether she gets a state funeral, doesn't matter whether she gets to have her tomb in Westminster Abbey etc just so long as said tomb has a sprung dance floor in recognition of our knees.

I like champagne and there are always a few nice bottles in the bottom of my wine cooler. However, I always ensure there are at least two bottles there in case I need them on the same day. One bottle is always called Maggie and the other Arthur....

No, I won't celebrate her death. I won't mourn the old witch either. I've moved on and am busy in my own little way (regulating health and social care) trying to help the plight of the old, infirm and ill who need every bit of help they can get in the post Th*tcher days, ever since she convinced people there was no such thing as society.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 01:37 PM

Are you saying the people who DON'T live in a dumbfuckistan elected a beast like Thatcher? LOL!!

How could that be????

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Big Phil
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 01:42 PM

Maggie rescued our Country from the union barons - thank God she did.

Phil*

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: pdq
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 01:50 PM

Let's see... Thatcher gets the blame for health problems caused by mining and get the blame for closing mines, meaning that fewer people had to suffer from mine-related health problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:02 PM

Very simple - celebrating her death will be relevant, so let her just be forgotten as a nobody.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:30 PM

Thatcher fervently embraced the philosophy of neo-liberal, free market economics (as has every politician since). We're now seeing the consequences of that fatuous, self-serving, greed-soaked ideology.

Thatcher was/is a Tory - so you'd expect her to stand up for, and support, greed and selfishness. But Blair was a Labour Prime Minister and, in theory, should have been working for the good of all. What did he do when him and his party came to power? Why, they fervently embraced neo liberal, free market economics ... which is why I hate Blair more than Thatcher ... and then there's the little matter of an illegal war and etc., etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,sturgeon
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:31 PM

Sabotage Times

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:33 PM

Why blame Thatcher?.....you all vote for the capitalist system don't you?
Mrs Thatcher did what she had to do as a servant of that system....we were becoming uncompetitive, so all the old manufacturing and mining had to go....and Thatcher held the line....for a little time.
With the advent of Blair we started the credit scam, which most of us believed would never end...but end it did and we can all now share in the end product.

Of course we could have rejected Thatcher and her pretty boy, but that would have meant upsetting the system and you WOULDN'T have liked that!!

You want it all.....and we end up with nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:45 PM

Thatcher and her ilk thought that British coal was uneconomic. So it was if you buy Colombian coal which is dug by children. Add in the costs of decommissioning our mines and putting the miners on the dole and it doesn't make much economic sense. But you can't sell an industry that makes a loss, can you?

But what happened to the great times we were promised when we became an oil-exporting country?

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:55 PM

Australian coal mostly.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 03:21 PM

She's a senile old woman now, not worthy of my hatred anymore.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,petecockermouth
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 03:53 PM

i love my country and hate what thatcher and her followers have done to it. whether anyone wants her dead or not - it will happen. when the time comes, whether i want to have a smile on my face and a spring in my step or not - it too will happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 04:17 PM

What brought this thread on?

No point in wasting energy on her. The blame lies with the MPs in the Tory party who betrayed their more decent traditions by putting her at their head and supporting her on her mission of destruction - and of course those ordinary voters (never a majority) who backed her.

But I'd agree that the real betrayal was that by Tony Blair, and his acolytes and sycophants, who chose to complete what Thatcher left unfinished.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 04:40 PM

I dont think Thatcher would ever have allowed the financial scam presided over by Blair and Brown.

She would have realised that it meant destruction.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 05:57 PM

Hello Sailor!

Yeah, the people of UK voted for Th*tcher and in 1979 an alternative to the winter of discontent seemed a good idea. Just like Bliar was a good idea 18 years later.

However, the inmates of Dumbfuckistan vote, as far as I can tell, for Jesus. Luckily, there are enough residents of USA to help stop a tea party theocracy.

She wasn't evil. still isn't. She was a tool of Barber, Joseph, Ridley and other incompetent fools who couldn't control her in the way they felt they could.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 06:36 PM

Don't be stupid ake. She would have let it run in the name of freedom of choice.

Don't be stupid Mither wither newname, she was evil.

I wish her to suffer before death until she has suffered as much as the many she caused to suffer. And to twist in the fires of hell thereafter. In eternity.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 07:27 PM

Yes of course. When the British do it, it is reasonable. When Americans do it is because they are stupid. Sounds like Mather blather to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Tiger
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 09:01 PM

You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 12:52 AM

British Coal £250 per ton
Australian open mined coal delivered to the UK £8 per ton

Which do you buy if you wish your industries to be competitive?

British Coal, Steel, Shipbuilding, Automotive Industry - all were on their knees long before Margaret Thatcher came along.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 02:48 AM

She and her offspring are arrogant blots on the landscape.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 02:55 AM

No Bridge, she wasn't evil she was given free rein to act out her fantasies. That's why opposition has the longer title of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition. Because all those centuries ago, it became recognised that policies require scrutiny. Th*tcher was given an easy ride by honourable principled but ultimately weak Michael Foot and well meaning modernising but not trusted by the people Neil Kinnock.

Hello Sailor! Goodbye Sailor! Come back when you have read and understood the study paper.

Speaking however as a dirty rotten stinking capitalist, er.....    Actually, it was better for the economy to subsidise British Coal and British Steel. Even good old all American yee haa! McGregor who she brought in to close them accepted that the knock on effect of keeping the coal and steel communities in work more than covered the cost of subsidy.

But as I said before, in her eyes there was no such thing as society. So as the pits closed, government investment in the areas could be seen not as pump priming communities but building new and larger courts, prisons and police stations. Oh, and saving money by putting benefits offices and job centres together. Always a bit suspicious of peverse incentives.......

So, as I said above. So long as her tomb has a sprung dance floor I'll be happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 03:39 AM

Good Heavens. A post from Bozo and a post from Mither with which I agree!

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:00 AM

Doctrinaire (Blind) socialists are a very unforgiving lot, it would seem ;)
Surely to feel superior to your opposition, it is not necessary to hate them?
Or is it an innate inferiority complex that drives such derision?

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Musket
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:10 AM

You agree with most of mine, which I do find somewhat disturbing Bridge....

John, not only blind doctrinaire socialists but dirty rotten stinking capitalists like me too.

I suppose by the logic of your post, European Jews a couple of generations back had a similar inferiority complex that could be pointed out by your argument?

(There, you can't beat a subject such as Th*tcher to bring out the Godwin principle....   )

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:15 AM

Teribus, it had fuck all to do with the price of coal, it was Thatchers paranoid hatred of trade unions, she deliberately set out to destroy the NUM, she paid that wanker McDonald more than it would have cost to settle the dispute in the unions favour.

As right wing and as wrong as ever teribus.



Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:24 AM

We simply let history judge. In fact it already is. Maybe you should try reading some, John, such as 'Ill Fares the Land' by Tony Judt, hardly a left-wing firebrand.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:30 AM

Did not the NUM in particular, and the Trades Unions in general, not set out to destroy her, and her government?

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:31 AM

"Are you saying the people who DON'T live in a dumbfuckistan elected a beast like Thatcher? LOL!!

How could that be????"

Well Jack, the same way you dopey buggers elected bastards like Reagan and Dubya (twice each, IIRC). Welcome to Dumbfuckistan.

People in glasshouses, my friend.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:44 AM

Maggie wanted revenge on the NUM for the winter of discontent that got Edward Heath out of office , and Bloody Scargill was just as Pig Headed as she was with his Hard Left views ! BOTH of them were wrong , but wishing death on an old woman is pointless.
I will NOT celebrate when she dies , nor will I mourn her ! And the same goes for Arthur Scargill .

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: banjoman
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 06:54 AM

Totally agree with Leadfingers. I worked as a Trade Union Officer during the Thatcher period and lost my job directly as a result of actions taken by her government. I had to spend years trying to get another job,
I could go on at length. However, I would never wish illness or pain on another human being regardless of how much I disagree with them. Let the old lady die in peace.
Comments above go for Scargill as well
I wont mourn their passing

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 07:09 AM

All right thinking people should hate the rich who steal from the poor.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 07:29 AM

She was a very vindictive person as Leadfingers says above, she also punished the Scots for not returning any Tory MPs by inflicting the poll tax on them first, it caused her downfall eventually but I too would wish her no harm now.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 07:39 AM

took quite a lot of creative accounting to make up that £250. Building useless new facilities, paying consultants like Macregor, training teams of accountants - also English coal was deep mine coal. English miners used to have a word they dig from open cast - they called it shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 07:42 AM

she deliberately set out to destroy the NUM, she paid that wanker McDonald more than it would have cost to settle the dispute in the unions favour.
But if she had caved in, it may have cost less then, but the unions would have come back for more.

As Kipling expressed it:

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 07:53 AM

If anyone has a party to celebrate her death, I'd welcome an invite!

It's not like it can hurt her, after all she will be dead and the dead don't know too much. But just like the function funerals perform, it would be a ritual of catharsis for the living.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Allan Conn
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 09:43 AM

"it would be a ritual of catharsis for the living"

Her spectacular fall from grace when her own party colleagues stripped her from power - then later their own eventual crushing at the 1997 UK wide election should be ample catharsis! Thatcher's legacy in Scotland was that the Conservative Party went from being the main opposition in Scotland (and it hadn't been so long since it was the only party to actually gain a majoroty of the vote in Scotland)to a party who won no seats at all in one election! Jumping with glee on someone's grave, especially when they have long ceased to be significant, isn't really dignified. Just saying...

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 10:04 AM

She remains the lady who befriended a mass murderer, helped him escape justice and would have adopted his techniques if she thought she could have got away with it.
She helped make Britain what it is today - a divided nation and a haven for avaricious bankers, financeers and incompetent and corrupt politicians.
I thank her for the pleasure she gave me to see her drive away from Downing Street for the last time, in tears, like a child deprived of its favourite toy - a treasured moment
May she enjoy the rest of her days - somewhere where she can do no more damage.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: MikeL2
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 10:14 AM

hi

Maggie Thatcher ??? Who is she..????

Move on for Christ sake !!

Cheers

Mikel2

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 10:30 AM

I've grown up and matured sufficiently
not to care any more about partying & pissing on her grave.

But I am definitely looking forward to the sheer joy
of watching Cameron and Clegg writhing in torment
through the final terminal diseased days of their squalid coalition....

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Silas
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 10:51 AM

Just wish she would get on with it - I'll be gone before her at this rate.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 11:01 AM

Gordon Brown removed the control of banking. It was one of his first acts as chancellor. That has a lot more to do with the financial mess we are in now, than anything Thatcher did.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 11:08 AM

True, John. But don't spoil their innocent fun. Blaming poor old Mrs T for everything that has ever gone wrong from the Fall Of The Roman Empire to Wotsit's failure to get Bronze in the final of the You-know-wot the day before yesterday is their hobby, dontcha-kno! Don't be a party-pooper, now!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 11:13 AM

"Jumping with glee on someone's grave, especially when they have long ceased to be significant, isn't really dignified."

Well, I don't plan on jumping or indeed pissing on her grave wherever that may be. But if I actually cared about what other's believed constituted dignified behaviour, then I would no doubt have to quit most if not all of my favoured pastimes!

Fortunately for me, I don't give a flying one about other people's prudish meddling injunctions.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Musket
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 11:34 AM

Going to buy a new pair of dancing shoes, as it happens. They will look good sat next to the champagne all ready for action.

The NUM didn't set out to defeat any government. Scargill, Capstick, McGahey and other "leaders" may have wanted something other than a democracy but they were ignorant idiots who thought they were Che Guevara on a mission, as the electrorate can't be trusted. After all, they reported that every Yorkshire area pit voted to strike. Interesting as the one I was at voted by a huge majority to carry on the overtime ban as the stock piles were too high and the overtime ban was getting McGregor back to the table, till he thought he could push us out on strike.

They weren't The NUM. The members were, me included. Even if our delegate did do a wicked thing and say we voted differently to the way we did. The NUM had its funds sequestrated for that. Despite everything, I thought it was right too, as the leadership couldn't be trusted with the votes of its members.

Rather than represent the electorate, Th*tcher used the stupidity of the donkeys leading lions above to destroy communities.

MikeL2 asks why everybody doesn't move on? Most of us have, but as the old bitch is about to kick her clogs according to many reports, it is a fitting time to remind us of her contribution to distrust in democracy, example of why ideology should never dictate policy and proof that we need competent leaders because she demonstrates it is Jim Hacker, not Sir Humphrey who can make or break peoples' life.

Anyway, if we wait for her to pop off before we remember her wickedness, we'll be accused of not respecting the dead. So I have no issue with disrespecting the dangerous would be Napoleon now.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 11:47 AM

The NUM didn't set out to defeat any government. Scargill, Capstick, McGahey and other "leaders" may have wanted something other than a democracy but they were ignorant idiots who thought they were Che Guevara on a mission, as the electrorate can't be trusted. After all, they reported that every Yorkshire area pit voted to strike. Interesting as the one I was at voted by a huge majority to carry on the overtime ban as the stock piles were too high and the overtime ban was getting McGregor back to the table, till he thought he could push us out on strike.

They weren't The NUM. The members were, me included. Even if our delegate did do a wicked thing and say we voted differently to the way we did. The NUM had its funds sequestrated for that. Despite everything, I thought it was right too, as the leadership couldn't be trusted with the votes of its members.


So the Tories then insisted in bringing in secret ballots for unions so that you, the rank and file members, might actually regain control of your own unions.
Until that point the government dealt with the officials that the members elected, such as Scargill, Capstick, McGahey.
Why blame the Tories for the mendacity of the leaders you elected?

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 12:17 PM

BTW, we presume she will be buried with full pomp & state honours
in a prominent public cemetry...

So who's gonna foot the bill for permanent protective security presence and surveillance of her memorial tomb ????

Maybe it would be more cost effective to consider quietly disposing of her remains
in a secret unmarked grave somewhere remote and inaccessible..

Like what ended up being done with Gaddafi...

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 02:02 PM

An ex-firefighter friend of mine (who's from Scotland) said he was very proud about throwing an egg at her car when she was visiting the land to the north of hers. He was five years old at the time. I doubt he'd cross the road to spit or piss on her grave because he'd deem both to be a waste of time and body substance. Fact is, we all have to stop voting for glitz and promises. In the words of George Bush, "I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office."