Concertina neck strap

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: Guran
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 10:38 AM

Dick,
Certainly good advice from some point but does it not concern all of *us* wasting time in various discussions in "forums" like this - in stead of playing ??? Another point is that knowledge about what you are actually up to while practising may add understanding of means and methods in a more profound way and facilitation of routines may offer so much more efficient practise that the "wasted" time actually is paid off with interest.An additional important issue is prevention of injuries and health problems from overuse. Music making actually is VERY exposed
to "occupational" distress.

Jack Campin,
I think I know what kind of material you mean.Like I said above , the difference between sax playing and concertina is that with the sax you want a fairly stable location in your mouth while with the concertinas a more flexible and varying position may make complete elasticity of the straps preferable. I use the same kind of material as for elastic braces and by choosing the width between 15 and 60 mm you may find exactly what is ideal for a specific instrument.

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 04:23 AM

For some instruments I've made myself a shock-cord neckstrap - strip of elastic on the inside with its stretch limited by a length of webbing sewn outside it in shallow loops. Works well for heavy things like a tenor sax.

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 04:00 AM

Guran my advice is to spend more time playing and less time with the obsession about ergonomics

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: Guran
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 11:42 AM

continued by accident...:
ergonomic practise.
The Anglo/Duet type of handle over the hand/knuckles locks the fingers if set tight. The English handle is generally too flexible. Adding the classical wrist strap offers some very primitive help in some playing situations.

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: Guran
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 11:36 AM

Alexander technique, yoga, muscular relaxation programs, frequent breaks and so on may all be included to organize "healthy" work methods.All of that should always be considered/investigated whatever *work* you are up to.
Along with that there better be a continuous struggle in order to improve the tool or instrument whatever which is used and this may be a tricky part since habits and conservatism always counteract such actions.
With concertinas there are always two issues in conflict with each other which - often unconsciously - cause confusion for the players:
a) to work the bellows efficiently and to articulate the tone you want as much stability as possible of the connection between player and instrument
b) to reach all buttons of a wide keyboard you want as much flexibility as possible ( or a flying hand as with the piano which you never get)
These needs of course can never be fully satisfied simultaneously.
The Anglo/Duet kind of handle and the English variant both suffer from the same problem: if set tight for good stability the fingering of buttons suffers, if set looser the meansfor tonal control and rhytmical expression are lost.

I have reformed the handles for all systems in order to improve the options combining stabiliy and flexibility based on very simple
rulesfor ergonomic

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Apr 19 - 03:45 AM

everybodys anatomy is different, what might be necessary for one person is not for another some fiddlers needs shoulder rests others do not ,alexander technique and posture is woth investigating

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Apr 19 - 06:29 PM

HISS (the Historically Informed Summer School) has a tutor couple who as well as doing their instruments (lute and viol) are certified teachers of the Alexander
Technique. Makes quite a difference. Jake the lutenist is the most laid-back performer I have ever seen. As he points out, if you look at historical pictures of performers on instruments like the lute that have a bad rep for ergonomics, you usually find that they solved the problems centuries ago. You don't see any agonized folk-style contortions among early music mandolin players.

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 05 Apr 19 - 06:16 PM

As Guran suggests, it's not just about concertinas, but any instrument: they all carry their own ergonomic challenges.
There is always a physiotherapist or osteopath on hand at the Edinburgh International Harp Festival: is this about carrying big bulky instruments, or the positions adopted while playing?
One of my fiddler friends has to keep stop playing and shake her arms about as the left arm and hand positions cause seize-up.
One of our local instrumental tutors asked me (privately) to look at one of his class who was complaining of upper back pain while playing guitar: just one look was enough: hunched tightly around his guitar - a recipe for discomfort! And you see the same hunched up position with some mandolin and whistle players.
And I, as a button accordion player, favour the two straps, highish on chest approach. Having watched, and tried, the technique of those who balance the right side of their box on their left knee and extend out even further leftwards, it's just inviting left shoulder tendinitis IMHO.

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: GUEST,Guran
Date: 05 Apr 19 - 07:42 AM

Reply to capnmike March 19 above
You find a Youtube address in my message above 12 Aug 12 3:13
It shows the variants of neck and shoulder straps

Reply to Sandman
Like I said before, despite there are many opinions on the matter there also are some very elementary physical and anatomical facts to consider and it is not very fruitful to disregard those...

Reply to Steve Gardham
You can only be happy that you have managed well so long yourself BUT this I am afraid says nothing about the possible needs for others and the object of any general ergonomic recommendations always aims for a realisation of the most suitable conditions for the majority of "workers" and if possible even for those with reduced physical capacities.
Most playerx spontaneously adapt their habits to what they find comfortable for theselves and thus it is easy to wrongly believe that their own method is suitable for others

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 05:50 PM

I also play a very heavy bass anglo, but I only play that sitting down.

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 05:40 PM

neck straps are handy for concertina players who like to waffle and hopefully get hung by their own petard.

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 05:36 PM

I'm 71, regularly play a 61key Wheatstone Special, often standing up to accompany song and I've never felt the need for any other strap than those hand straps provided. I have been doing this for over 50 years and don't work out. Occasionally if I have time to think about it I'll rest one foot on the box and partially rest the anglo on my knee.

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: GUEST,capnmike
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 05:02 PM

If possible please include a picture(s) of the strap(s) you recommend here. Thanks.

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: Guran
Date: 31 Dec 15 - 10:56 AM

Reply to Tom Theis Dec 18

I repeat: A classical *neck strap* better NOT BE USED AT ALL !! It is counterproductive in many ways:
It is too thin, it is rigid, it is usually attached at a location that does not provide a suitable balancing position and first of all if avoidable you should never carry ANYTHING around your neck since that provokes static muscular strain in one of the most vulnerable parts of the body.Furthermore the classical neckstrap presupposes that the instrument is held waist high with elbows at right angle.
When using a support for the instrument it should instead be held - or hanging rather - as low as possible to relieve as much weight as possible.

Instead of a neckstrap a shoulder strap, or even better two, or a harness of some kind, should be used. The best is using elastic straps so that the vertical position may be adjustable while playing. The simplest way to attach the straps to the instrument is by means of an intermediate strap 20-25cm long fixed between a pair of end bolts each side ( one free endbolt interpositioned ) On to this strap the ends of the shoulder strap is attached so that an ideally balancing position is achieved where the instrument does not want to counteract the best relation between hand and keyboard.

From an ergonomic viewpoint this is all simple and selfevident....

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 18 Dec 15 - 05:48 PM

The strap per se is trivial. Use any leather or ribbon you fancy. The complication is attaching it to an instrument that isn't designed for a strap. It has to take a fair amount of the weight without too much tendency to tilt the instrument and without imposing excessive force somewhere that can't take it. All perfectly possible but I don't know whether you can get something off the shelf.

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: GUEST,Tom Theis
Date: 18 Dec 15 - 02:23 PM

My father-in-law is looking for a neck strap to purchase anyone know where I can get one in the minneapolis area

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: Guran
Date: 12 Aug 12 - 03:13 AM

Sorry , the last link was wrong of course.Should be this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSsBwO2PTVE&feature=plcp

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: Guran
Date: 12 Aug 12 - 03:06 AM

leeneia/ 11 Aug 12 - 11:06 AM
"Right. My harp teacher said the same thing. The oldtimers said to raise the elbows till the forearms were horizontal. Forget that!"

RE:One of the most important issues in all work hygiene is avoiding static muscular effort as far as possible and this is a perfect example! Always find relaxed positions and use dynamic and flexible methods and maybe most important of all: regular and frequent breaks!

Warbler/11 Aug 12 - 12:15 PM
"I use a binocular harness so the weight is taken by my back / shoulders instead of my neck. Much more comfortable"

RE: Excellent! The awareness about means to support the concertina- and firstly all other musical instruments too - very positively seems to have grown in later years.Here is one example for saxophones:

http://www.windcorp.se/sv/article/867/sele_saxofon_neotech

There is one important difference between playing concertina and sax however: The sax has to be kept steady in your mouth while the concertina has to be moved around and the playing position preferably changes. This means that the supporting strap(s) should better be elastic so that support may be given at varying heights and without jerks when working the bellows.This clip shows how I arrange it:

http://www.windcorp.se/sv/article/867/sele_saxofon_neotec

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Aug 12 - 01:18 PM

a concertina neck strap is very useful if the player is not satisfied with his own playing, if he has enough strap he can sing higher, or alternatively put himself out of his misery.

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: Spectacled Warbler
Date: 11 Aug 12 - 12:15 PM

I use a binocular harness so the weight is taken by my back / shoulders instead of my neck. Much more comfortable.

Joy

Subject: RE: Concertina neck strap
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Aug 12 - 11:06 AM

Right. My harp teacher said the same thing. The oldtimers said to raise the elbows till the forearms were horizontal. Forget that!

Subject: Concertina neck strap
From: Guran
Date: 11 Aug 12 - 04:02 AM

This issue comes up for discussion now and then and right now at the c.net general forum.It is saddening to notice however that the old Victorian method using a thin cord around the neck to support the instrument while playing it with forearms held horisontal (elbow angle 90 degrees)quite often is recommended despite it is severely dysfunctional and potentially harmful.
To be ergonomically suitable broad elastic straps should be used and not around the neck but over one (or even better two) shoulder(s) and
the instrument held low so that it hangs only in the supporting straps with and elbow angle ca 120 degrees or more.
Only when playing very energetically a higher playing position may be preferable but this will increase the demands for stabilizing static load on hands and arms which rather should be avoided.