Where are the youngsters?

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 07:04 PM

Up in Scotland, at least the area I live in and certainly on Orkney there are loads of talented young musicians playing folk/traditional music. At the local folk club we get young people from age 16 upwards, they sit and play/sing with us old and middle aged folkies.Some sing traddional Scottish/Folk others blues/slide guitar/banjo, mandolin etc. Some write great songs. Some cover songs from Neil young to John Martyn. Orkney has a huge number of young players and singers who spend Saturdays at the Orkney tradditional music project in Kirkwall. The Wrigley sisters teach several instruments. Douglas Montgomery runs a band of extremely talented young players called Hadhirgaan from Kirkwall Grammar school.At least in Scotland, folk/tradditional music seems to be alive as much as heavy rock and every other genre.

By the way Selby's lads are really great musicians...Hi Keith !!

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 06:51 PM

I've just got home from Whitby. We had to sit out several dances because we were being crowded off the Pavillion floor by yougnsters in loose groups away from parental control. Great!
I did a long-sword workshop taught by the Goathland Pough Stots and the demo side I danced with was led by a youngsler of about 12, who was definitely in charge! He knew it all (in a nice way!)and kept us oldies respectfully in our place. and they were excellent
There were 2 Northumbrian pipers busking by the swing bridge, in the centre of town, who couldn't have been over thirteen and they were excellent. They did not just play tunes, but did harmonies as well and were not afraid to experiment with unusual chording.
The youngsters are around, it's noticing them that's not always easy!

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 12:51 PM

Glad weve got back to the theme.
When I started this I was thinking of youngsters as under 40.
I was at Sidmouth too and there were very few youngsters at the concerts even when it was a young performer. I managed a few sessions and much the same story - although I did not manage all of them. The fringe festival had more youngsters.

I know there are some good youngsters playing proffessionally- but I still sense a lack of the joiners inners who play/sing for the fun of it.

The fact that people can name some of the thriving sessions full of youngsters sugests they are few and far between. My pessimism remains.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: Jack's Rake
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 06:47 AM

Selby, I wonder if you were at the same festival as me...

I witnessed a girl of around 18 being shouted at, very publicly, by a much older man for singing more loudly along to her friend's song (to which she obviously knew the words) than the song sung by someone else immediately before.

Still, some level of inclusivity was demonstrated because I (definitely not a "youngster"), too, was slated (slightly less publicly, granted) by a gentleman who, while he was singing a loud, joiny-in song, took umbrage at my replying to a "youngster" quietly telling me the key of some tunes she was about to play.


Having said that, this festival was crawling with youngsters both taking part and listening and the vast majority of the oldsters were not at all like the two mentioned above.

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: TopcatBanjo
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 07:07 AM

Yes, really looking forward to seeing Flats and Sharps playing at Didmarton Bluegrass Festival next weekend (30th Aug-2nd Sep) near Cirencester. Should be a good do!

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 06:40 AM

Flats & Sharps are superb.

They may well be at BAMfest (mentioned several times above)...... performing in both the main festival stream and doing some stuff at "Culture Shack" to hopefully inspire other young people.

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: TopcatBanjo
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 06:10 AM

I've come to playing and singing through bluegrass music over the last several years, and whilst the average age of players is in the "older" category (especially banjo - there seems to be a phenomenon of men in their 50s & 60s taking it up) there is a good spread of ages and a distinct and growing number of young people who are actively involved in playing, singing and songwriting.

There's a small but vibrant bluegrass community in the UK which comes together for festivals and the annual Sore Fingers bluegrass camp, among other occasions, and on the whole, young people are very much welcomed and encouraged by seasoned players. For instance, SF gives tuition bursaries to young people for the residential courses. The Williams family at Helsby, Cheshire has also done much both in formal teaching and in providing family friendly opportunities for jamming at their Thursday night sessions, and many talented musicians have emerged from this area, including the wonderful Jaywalkers.

Many of these young UK bands, including Jaywalkers, the Carrivick Sisters and Flats and Sharps are now playing professionally or semi-professionally. Oh, and I come at this as someone in her early 40s who only started playing and singing a few years ago, and has been helped enormously by people both older and younger than me. I now have musical friends in an age range of about 16-75!

Here are a couple of clips:

Jaywalkers (Jay is 19, Michael 23, Lucy late 20s(?))
Jaywalkers at Holmfirth

The very entertaining Flats and Sharps from Cornwall (aged 18-19 I think)
Flats and Sharps

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 05:31 AM

"Another obstacle I had to overcome is how do you start? Firstly you have to get an instrument from somewhere, and if your trying to buy an instrument on what I would guess of a typical allowance of £20 a month, that's a big investment for something that you may give up in 6 months time."

GUEST - do you know the "TAKE IT AWAY" scheme. Worth a google. Used to be open to anyone, now just to the under-25s. Doesn't get you any money off, but does at least make paying for an instrument a bit easier (for you or your parents).

Plus, you can actually get some real bargains on eBay or Gumtree. At the risk of sounding like a proper old codger, it is a hell of a lot cheaper to buy an instrument in 2012 than it was in 1990, when I was a teenager playing in indie bands. A lot of factory-made guitars (whether acoustic or electric) these days are really, really good compared to what was available even only 15 years ago.

(Though I appreciate that it will probably always be expensive to buy an English concertina!)

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: selby
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 04:02 AM

I am ashamed to say that also one possible reason why young people are not seen in sessions with older people is older peoples behaviour 2 examples from a festival I have just returned from.
A group of 4 people young with instruments are in a fringe pub at this festival sat at a table talking apart from them the room is empty a gentleman comes in with Instruments followed by his mate they have an animated conversation at the bar with the landlord, the landlord comes over asks the young people to move because they are sat where these 2 always sit.
A family are sat in another pub with a child unaware that there is a session about to start, they are talking a musician places a chair (for no good reason that I can see apart from being confrontational) as close as possible to these people so that they are hemmed in they are then told to stop talking no one explained to this family what was going on no one was pleasant to them, the vast majority of people in this room where OLD.
I have seen this and feel ashamed, this is how OLD people behave I am pleased that young people like and consider me part of their group and allow me to participate with them

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: Ole Juul
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 11:02 PM

In my experience, a lot of older people seem to become so hidebound into "their" era of music that they just won't take the trouble to search out good new stuff.

New stuff, indeed change, is the very essence of music. Perhaps some of the ossified "music" should be reclassified as "reenactment".

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 07:16 PM

Guest999: As I said in my longer post way up thread, I've had much more success getting youngsters to to go along to pub singarounds and sessions than I have in getting any of the older people who inhabit those sessions along to some of the venues and events favoured by "yoof".

I'm often the oldest person at these events. Doesn't seem to bother anyone that I'm there....I'm definitely made welcome and get similar comments about the absence of older people.

In my experience, a lot of older people seem to become so hidebound into "their" era of music that they just won't take the trouble to search out good new stuff.

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 07:12 PM

As a 'youngster' of 15, I would say that in general, Folk is alot harder for us to get into, firstly because a lot of the sessions now take place in pubs. When I have been to a few of these I have always felt unwelcome by the pub (not the players) in the way I can't go buy a lemonade from the bar as for some reason they refuse to serve minors.

Another obstacle I had to overcome is how do you start? Firstly you have to get an instrument from somewhere, and if your trying to buy an instrument on what I would guess of a typical allowance of £20 a month, that's a big investment for something that you may give up in 6 months time.

However I do still enjoy to go and play with the local folk group on a weekly basis so I have managed to get round these 'problems'.

Oh and if you have time, please take a look at my newest website: http://folkforums.com/

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: maeve
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 06:11 PM

999- I did smile; couldn't you see me?

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 05:52 PM

Yeah. And having gone to some shows by younger people playing their music, I have heard the opposite question asked (implied): not too many people your age come to hear us. Generation gap? Maybe, and maybe we're just too wrapped up in our old familiar worlds to go find some real talent that is out there. Pardon me for the weak attempt at humour.

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,siochain
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 05:48 PM

Try this:

http://youthtradsong.org/

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: maeve
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 05:40 PM

Hi romanyman; nice to see you here.

999- Yes of course...yet the posts that interested me in this thread are those showing a few of the very many fine musicians all over the place right under our folky noses, so to speak. I hear and see them everywhere I go, and have great hope for the future of good music of all kinds.

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 05:24 PM

"Where are the youngsters?"

Same places we were as youngsters: out, and trying to prevent their elders from finding what they've been doing.

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,Folknacious
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 04:37 PM

I've only skimmed this thread, but the bleedin' obvious answer is "not where there are people who refer to them as 'youngsters'". Sorry if somebody said that already. They tend to be where other people of similar age are, not in rooms full of people of their grandparents' age.

Take Sidmouth: they'll be up at the Bulverton or where Shooting Roots sessions are, not in the Ham Marquee or Bedford or singarounds. Or Towersey - in the Dance House or Hive, not in the concert tent. There are many hundreds of people under 25 or 30 at those festivals, but if you're asking that question, you won't see them where you go.

There are lots and lots and lots . . .

When you were 20, who did you hang out with? And weren't you interested in stripping something more from the opposite sex than a willow?

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,romanyman
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 03:52 PM

Ive been away from mudcat for ages, and just thought id have a look at whats going on with the cat, and lo and behold, the samo old same old.
as ever the where are the youngsters question, well i spent a week at broadstairs folk week and was greatly suprised at the number of pubs that opened to folkies, apart of course from the three at the bottom of town that always do their best to screw the week up. now the same old answer to the question of youngsters , is , and this is what i see and is my interpetation, i used to go to folk clubs, and the ssssshhhhhhhhh brigade ruled, and still rule, many young people who were there, were relegated to outside the area, now if you grew up with this, then surely it would rub off, and anything folk, would result in " i dont belong here " also today there is so much choice in music, sadly folk is a long way down the list with many so called music teachers or school curriculums, my thoughts thats all

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: selby
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 02:50 PM

Thats them they will be awesome in a couple of years time as they get bigger

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 02:14 PM

Selby wrote:-

" This morning saw 2 young lads about 11 years old busking with Uilleann pipes"

I'll bet that they were the two lads that I photographed whilst I was compering the concert at the Arts Centre at last year's Sidmouth Festival. Here's a link to that photo of the pair of them - their names are MIKEY DOYLE AND JOE DOYLE

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: selby
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 01:56 PM

Just back from Whitby saw plenty of talented young ones playing This morning saw 2 young lads about 11 years old busking with Uilleann pipes very good.
Keith

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: maeve
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 12:08 PM

Guest, matt milton- Thanks for that link! Here are two of the younger musicians mentioned in the line-up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wdI6_Zeoy4

Dazbo- I'm glad you saw and heard young folks making music at Sidmouth.

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,Dazbo at work
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 11:46 AM

well, i thought I saw lots of youngsters at Sidmouth this year, playing, dancing, performing and generally having a good time Perhaps this was an illusion brought on by too much beer and sun!!

Folk has always been a minority music genre - in the 70s when I was growing up 90% percent of pupils in my age group didn't do folk and I only really liked Steeleye Span. I think the scene is looking healthier than I've ever seen it. Perhaps Broadstairs is God's waiting room for old folkies

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 10:28 AM

"Any more reports of music-making young folks?"

I believe there were several young folks in attendance at this years Fire In The Mountain festival, see:

line up of Fire in the Mountain fest

And here's an interview with Joe Buirski, who organised it:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/showbiz-and-lifestyle/arts-in-wales/2012/04/30/the-organiser-of-the-fire-in-the-mountain-festival-t

The second time this fest has taken place. Both years so far I couldn't go. Maybe next year...

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: maeve
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 09:20 AM

Any more reports of music-making young folks?

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 09:15 AM

I'm looking forward to the full on distorted sound it can deliver.

Rachel plays one of those Deering 'Scientology' open-back 5-strings with a 'Pick up the World' pickup. The the signal is pretty pure which is ideal for pushing into the realms of pure noise without losing the notion of it being a banjo. I wish I could say the same for my fiddle pick-up which begins sound like Robert Fripp's Les Paul as soon as I put it through distortion & wah-wah pedal. Nice but not good for drones. Maybe 'Pick up the World' is the way to go - unless they're Scientologists too...

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 09:11 AM

Until I find a Vox Apache on display in a shop
I can't confirm to my own satisfaction how good they'll sound.
Earlier attempts at producing electric travel guitars in the last 2 or 3 decades
employed basic cheap onboard transistor amps and tiny speakers that sounded nasty, shrill & farty...

My initial concern about the Apache is Vox's reputation
for having a good prototype idea but sabotaging the production model
by stupidly deliberately omitting useful features
potential buyers would require.

Vox and parent company Korg already sell very good & successful affordable valve amp & FX emulation products.
Hopefully that's the technology being used in the Apache...???

However, immediate online guitar forum contentions are the novelty inclusion of digital drum patterns
but no provision for more essential simple onboard FX such as delay, tremelo/vibrato, autowah, etc
which Korg/vox could easily have built in using readily available
cost effective chips & circuits.

Though I guess they'd justify foregoing power hungry digital effects
to extend battery life..?

But applause to Vox for trying at least.
The young learner guitarist marketed Apache will also provide
'Folk' musician's & Blues Slide players with more choice & options,
and there is the potential to mic up the Apache on stage
as if it were a traditional 'acoustic' instrument
and use mixboard FX....

Be interesting to see what the circuit modding and bending boffins
eventually come up with to customise the Apache electronics and extend it's possibilities...????

Be even better if the Apache survives long enough in production
to be upgraded within 18 months into a more versatile version 2....

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: Musket
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 08:00 AM

Leveller - Rainsong guitars may not actually fill an auditorium, but they come pretty bloody close..

Also, the sound is very clean, being carbon fibre bellied with no bracing, so no distinguishing tone as it were. So amplified, assuming you amplify cleanly with no effects, the amplified result is not any different from the acoustic version. The LR Baggs pickups help..

A microphoned acoustic guitar, assuming the PA is half decent should also carry the flavour and tone of the acoustic.

That said, I do take your point in general. I have always been bemused how you buy, for instance, an expensive Taylor guitar and decide which wood to use, as they can all sound so different. A koa wood has a much different tone to lighter woods etc. But then the manufacturer makes no differentiation in the built in pick ups, so if you normally play plugged in, it is the looks not the tone you have bought. So if that model is great for the action, the handling, the pitch at the nut etc, then buy it in the cheapest belly wood they offer if you are always plugging in...

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 07:48 AM

"I'm looking forward to the full on distorted sound it can deliver."

Word has it that banjos already do that.



I'm leaving now.

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 07:29 AM

"I've been struggling hard not to jump in ...
as it's a forgone conclusion what my opinion would be anyway
regarding the ingrained old folkie prejudice towards electric guitars & amps.."

Just to avoid any accusation that I'm any kind of purist, I'm currently awaiting delivery of my brand spanking new handmade Banjocaster. I'm looking forward to the full on distorted sound it can deliver.

It won't see the light of day at Bedale ACOUSTIC music festival (BAMfest) that I am helping to pull together next year though......

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: Ole Juul
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 05:33 AM

Why do people insist on playing quiet chamber instruments in an auditorium? Pick a louder instrument which can fill a big room - there are lots. That said, a dedicated microphone can give excellent results and then one can add compression, harmonies, and any number of wonderful effects which come with the conversion to electricity and the digital world. Singers can also benefit from these effects. In fact it's likely that they'd catch the attention of a few "youngsters" if they did that.

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 05:01 AM

If someone could create an acoustic guitar that, unamplified, could fill a big auditorium, they'd have discvered the holy grail.

Classical players do this as a matter of course.

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 04:55 AM

Seems to generally be accepted to be the case. I'm not really interested in the semantics Sean.

More a matter of physics (acoustics?) really. It's always baffled me why exponents of Acoustic Music are so keen to get behind a microphone, or amplify their instruments even in those situations where amplification is hardly a necessity. I've been roundly abused (by self-styled 'Purists') for employing my electronic shruti box (or else my lightly-amplified Kaossilator) to provide a drone for anotherwise acoustic performance, yet the same individuals saw no harm in the PA system set up for the main act of the evening. But, as you say, it seems to be generally accepted that acoustic music remains acoustic even when its amplified.

I dunno about "real" music but Paul's definition (music produced for the joy of the thing rather than an attempt to to be rich or famous) defines pretty well what I like most.

I think that accounts for all amatuer musical experience in the world on one level or other - from folk to karaoke to kids in their first rock band or the young hip-hop crews we see outside the Arndale Centre in MCR or hymn singers in church or brass bands or university gamelans - etc. etc. - the experience of music (any music) is always just as "real" as any other. As Ole Juule says Music is about dreaming. It's a Folkist tendency (going back to Cecil Charp at least) to assume that some musics are morally superior to others, and to then prescribe accordingly.

Of course the flipside to all this is that music becomes "unreal" is one is lucky enough to become rich & famous. I wouldn't like to think of the music of The Fall, Frank Zappa or Ennio Morricone as being less "real" than any other on account of the celebrity factor. Hell, even folk has its celebs & wannabes - I meet them all the time, even if it's just in their own heads, they're in the Special Zone of the serious artiste whatever their day job might be. In other musics people tend to be less evangelical.

Personally I think the concept is ideal.

Looks cool, PFR - harking back to some lovely old pics I've got someplace of Eastern European electric guitars with clipped on speakers. As a kid I would jam an old square tape-recorder mic in the soundhole of my nylon string guitar and amplify it through my little mono record player just to be loud enough to compete with my friend who had a drum kit. I hope these sound better, though as Richard points out early examples haven't been at all succesful. These days there's dozens of cute little amps out there from just about everyone that sound pretty good - my wife plays a Daisy Rock Purple Heart though a Roland Microcube and it sounds just lovely even at acoustic levels. With some nice amp / FX modelling the Apache could work a treat. I'll be sure to check it out if ever I see one.

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: theleveller
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 04:36 AM

"answer me this - is an instrument still acoustic when you put it through a PA?"

If I can jump into this thread-creep for a moment - if we're talking about guitars (which, apart from the recemt hybrid, the cittern, is the only one I'm qualified to discuss) it's about two things. The first is technique. Speaking personally, I find it impossible to use the same acoustic techniques on an electric guitar - both right and left hand principles are totally different. The second is tone - acoustic guitar makers put immense skill, effort and money into creating guitars which have a particular sound and the problem then is how to present this at high volumes to large audiences.

In fact, in the end, it's all about volume. If someone could create an acoustic guitar that, unamplified, could fill a big auditorium, they'd have discvered the holy grail.

Unless (like John Martyn) you want to create a particular sound using electronics.......

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,Tony
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 03:46 AM

Most of the musical gatherings I go to consist of just a few old people, and it always looks as though music is dying out and we're the last remnant.

But occasionally I stumble onto a gathering of young folk singers, and then it usually seems like the walls are ready to burst because the room is so full.

Of course, they're probably not conforming to the 1953 (or whatever it is) definition of folk music. They're probably not even aware of it. But they're making music, and writing lots of songs.

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 02:47 AM

...and I should add on a more positive note, there are many, many young people getting involved in music, in fact I'd argue many more than of my generation (I'm in my 40's). I don't think it's ever been easier - instruments are cheaper in real terms than ever, and the amount of on-line tuition (and inspiration) via Youtube in particular is quite staggering.

So I think despite all the problems faced by young people today music (of any kind including"folk") is in rude health.

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 02:40 AM

"Youngsters" itself is a pretty old-fashioned word, and the folk world is one of the few places you still hear it!

I'm glad to hear the majority of the posts seem to be supportive of young people, rather than the "they just can't be bothered" type of comments. Young people today (in the UK at least) seem to have the odds stacked against them: University education and associated eye-watering debt seen as entry level for non-existent careers, ridiculously high housing costs, little hope of an enjoyable retirement, and an older generation who seem to have it all while complaining that the "youngsters" can't be bothered! So to the many who do get involved in music ("folk" or otherwise) all power to you.

The acoustic vs. electric/electronic thread drift is interesting. I don't have a problem with running purely acoustic festivals/sessions but would like to find a way of mixing acoustic/electric/electronic instruments in sessions & singarounds - I think I'll start a thread...

I dunno about "real" music but Paul's definition (music produced for the joy of the thing rather than an attempt to to be rich or famous) defines pretty well what I like most.

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: Ole Juul
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 12:55 AM

matt milton: Something that nobody's mentioned is how TERRIBLE at publicity most folk festivals are.

I'll say! And folk musicians too. I offer free on-line advertising for traditional music performers and in two years not one person has taken me up on it. Go figure.

Blandiver: Anyway, answer me this - is an instrument still acoustic when you put it through a PA? It's a puzzler for sure. And what about when you record it?

Of course it isn't. The sound of a cardboard speaker is quite different from a piece of Norwegian Pine, and cramming a 6 foot grand piano through an 8 inch hole is not reality based either. Music is about dreaming. :)

Paula t: Ole Juul,
I hope I can reassure you that here are lots of young performers out there.

You don't need to Paula. :) I am quite aware of the number of talented young musicians around, and I am not really the curmudgeon you saw in that post. What I was eluding to was the popular view that music is about getting famous and not about spending a couple of hours doing scales before you allow yourself the luxury of going out.

Some music is not appreciated as widely as as much as it was at another time, but there will always be someone interested in carrying earlier forms forward. I think too that it is easy to lose perspective in a world of near ubiquitous television which obfuscates reality. There are people doing all kinds of stuff and likely not less of them - it just looks that way.

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 11:25 PM

You are right PFR that AFAIK all previous guitars with built in amplifier and speaker sounded wholly dire. But I love my little Vox DA20 amp so maybe there is hope for the Apache.

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 11:10 PM

.. of course the dozy buggers at Vox UK
have only gone and plugged it into an Amp
for the embedded sales demo video at the above link.....???

At least the Far Eastern Vox marketing videos
show more understanding of the actual point
of a battery powered travel guitar...

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=vox+APACHE&oq=vox+APACHE&gs_l=youtube.3..0l3.3624.5107.0.5342.5.5.0.0.0.0.103.387.4j

hmmmm.. only £220... see you at the 'acoustic' sessions...

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 10:52 PM

Hello Banjiman & Blandiver..

I've been struggling hard not to jump in ...
as it's a forgone conclusion what my opinion would be anyway
regarding the ingrained old folkie prejudice towards electric guitars & amps..

But seeing as Vox have just issued a new line of budget priced
self contained electric guitars with built in amp and speakers.

Might these ruffle a few stiffly starched feathers if bolshy young [& old] upstarts
insist on playing them at 'acoustic' events...????

http://www.voxamps.com/uk/guitars/apache/

Seems every 10 years or so a guitar manufacturer risks having a go
at trying to sell all-in-one electric travel guitars..


Personally I think the concept is ideal.
Be interesting how convincing Vox's new technology emulates a decent tone.
Unfortunately previous attempts have tended to sound like wasps farting through a kazoo...

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: paula t
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 08:41 PM

Ole Juul,
I hope I can reassure you that here are lots of young performers out there. Most of the young people I know sing or play. I teach music at our village primary school and I can assure you that music is very important to us all. We put a great emphasis on the fact that absolutely everyone has a voice and can sing. We also have some super peripatetic teachers who keep our children inspired- which means that many of our children play instruments. We had a mini music festival during the Queen's Jubilee weekend and every single band came from our village.A great time was had by all!Young people also don't seem to have an issue about the type of music they will listen to or find "worthwhile" as many oldies do.My daughters enjoy most types of music and are always open to new sounds.There is hope! xx

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 06:08 PM

"Anyway, answer me this - is an instrument still acoustic when you put it through a PA? It's a puzzler for sure. And what about when you record it?"

Seems to generally be accepted to be the case. I'm not really interested in the semantics Sean.

"Hmmmm - it was the emphasis "real" I was picking up on there, Paul - as if "real music" can only be played on "real acoustic" instruments which are more "real" than the non-acoustic sort."

........ there's plenty of music force fed to the populace that I definitely wouldn't class as "real". I suppose my very rough and not carefully thought through definition is that "real" music in this context is produced for the joy of the thing rather than an attempt to to be rich or famous.

Not trying to suggest that "real" music can only be played on acoustic instruments. But in the context of what we are doing at BAMfest it would need to be. Rightly or wrongly.

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: Young Buchan
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 06:03 PM

Ooops, sorry. Came to the thread thinking it was from David Cameron trying to remember which pub he'd been in.

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 05:06 PM

Hmmmm - it was the emphasis "real" I was picking up on there, Paul - as if "real music" can only be played on "real acoustic" instruments which are more "real" than the non-acoustic sort.

Anyway, answer me this - is an instrument still acoustic when you put it through a PA? It's a puzzler for sure. And what about when you record it?

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 03:55 PM

Something that nobody's mentioned is how TERRIBLE at publicity most folk festivals are.

I am by no means a youngster (though am often considered one at some folk clubs, where anyone under 40 is spoken of as young!). But there are so many folk festivals in Britain that the only time I ever hear of them is when one's closing!

I mean, that "Wimborne festival ends" post was the first time I ever heard of that festival. Sounded interesting. I might have gone. Oh well.

The fact is, I'd heard of quasi-folk festivals like Green Man, End of the Road, Moseley Folk Festival, getting on for ten years ago, when I wasn't even that interested in folk music.

But now I am, and I regularly look at things like Mudcat, fRoots, EDFSS etc. And I'm STILL only just about getting to hear about most UK folk festivals.

The fact is, the only way you get to hear about all this stuff is if you are really, really, really, deeply, long-term involved in folk music. And most young people aren't.

Folk festivals badly need to reach out, just do a bit more publicity. That doesn't have to cost money: we have Facebook now.

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 03:14 PM

Blandiver.

The clue is in the name of the festival Bedale ACOUSTIC Music Festival.

I've no problem with all sorts of music and still listen to plenty of stuff a long way from Folk (and definitely not acoustic). There's good stuff everywhere. I don't necessarily have a problem with folk songs played on electronica or anything else....... as long as it's good (or I like it!).

The ethos of this festival is ACOUSTIC though.

Be odd to include electronic (or even electric) music wouldn't it?

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: maeve
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 10:28 AM

The children and young adults of Village Harmony;
They are here, and here , here , also here and here.

Subject: RE: Where are the youngsters?
From: OlgaJ
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 10:04 AM

Its a bit chicken and egg really. We've just got back from Moira Furnace Festival where there were several under 30's playing stage spots and much appreciated by the audiences. All of them very good singers/musicians. Unfortunately if you haven't been seen at a festival its very difficult to persuade festival organisers that they ought to book you, so they tend to keep going back to the tried and tested artists with their feet firmly planted in the 60s (not that there is anything wrong with that). You won't get many young people wanting to come and sit in a concert populated almost entirely by people aged 65+. There were lots of young people involved in music and dance sides so I think there is a future for young people at festivals, and therefore a future for festivals themselves. Perhaps the smaller festivals are the way forward. I don't get to many big ones but suspect that quite a bit of the music actually fits other genres and is included to bring the younger people in. Perhaps once they are in some of them will get hooked on the more traditional songs, music and dance, but be prepared for them to do it in their own way! After all folk (music and dance) is a living breathing experience which must be allowed to develop as it always has. Certainly one organisation we belong to has missed the boat and is despairing at the lack of young families joining them. The warning signs were there twenty years ago but there was a bit of an 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' mentality amongst the older members so what do you expect?