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BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ

number 6 28 Aug 12 - 01:03 AM
John MacKenzie 28 Aug 12 - 04:20 AM
gnu 28 Aug 12 - 07:18 AM
number 6 28 Aug 12 - 09:00 AM
GUEST,leeneia 28 Aug 12 - 09:01 AM
McGrath of Harlow 28 Aug 12 - 09:04 AM
Bobert 28 Aug 12 - 09:08 AM
Sawzaw 28 Aug 12 - 09:17 AM
Nigel Parsons 28 Aug 12 - 09:29 AM
meself 28 Aug 12 - 09:34 AM
KB in Iowa 28 Aug 12 - 09:35 AM
Little Hawk 28 Aug 12 - 12:11 PM
Little Hawk 28 Aug 12 - 12:26 PM
Bill D 28 Aug 12 - 03:00 PM
Bobert 28 Aug 12 - 03:10 PM
KB in Iowa 28 Aug 12 - 03:13 PM
GUEST,Eliza 28 Aug 12 - 03:40 PM
Becca72 28 Aug 12 - 03:43 PM
McGrath of Harlow 28 Aug 12 - 03:51 PM
GUEST,999 28 Aug 12 - 06:18 PM
GUEST,amergin 28 Aug 12 - 06:46 PM
gnu 28 Aug 12 - 06:56 PM
Little Hawk 28 Aug 12 - 06:58 PM
Bobert 28 Aug 12 - 07:44 PM
Little Hawk 28 Aug 12 - 07:48 PM
gnu 28 Aug 12 - 08:34 PM
Little Hawk 28 Aug 12 - 09:06 PM
gnu 28 Aug 12 - 09:09 PM
Amos 28 Aug 12 - 11:06 PM
Fossil 29 Aug 12 - 04:53 AM
GUEST,999 29 Aug 12 - 04:58 AM
GUEST,Eliza 29 Aug 12 - 05:47 AM
McGrath of Harlow 29 Aug 12 - 09:00 AM
Sawzaw 29 Aug 12 - 09:17 AM
Henry Krinkle 29 Aug 12 - 09:41 AM
GUEST,999 29 Aug 12 - 09:45 AM
Henry Krinkle 29 Aug 12 - 10:06 AM
Little Hawk 29 Aug 12 - 10:35 AM
GUEST,bankley 29 Aug 12 - 11:08 AM
GUEST,Eliza 29 Aug 12 - 01:33 PM
GUEST,A Regular who wishes to remain anonymous 29 Aug 12 - 03:46 PM
Henry Krinkle 29 Aug 12 - 03:54 PM
GUEST,A Regular who pushed the wrong button. 29 Aug 12 - 05:17 PM
gnu 29 Aug 12 - 06:24 PM
Big Al Whittle 29 Aug 12 - 06:26 PM
GUEST,A Reg: 29 Aug 12 - 07:30 PM
Little Hawk 29 Aug 12 - 07:35 PM
gnu 29 Aug 12 - 07:38 PM
Lonesome EJ 29 Aug 12 - 08:33 PM
Don Firth 29 Aug 12 - 09:11 PM
Bobert 29 Aug 12 - 09:29 PM
Lonesome EJ 29 Aug 12 - 09:47 PM
Bobert 29 Aug 12 - 10:12 PM
Little Hawk 29 Aug 12 - 10:31 PM
Bobert 29 Aug 12 - 10:37 PM
Little Hawk 30 Aug 12 - 03:27 AM
Sawzaw 30 Aug 12 - 06:03 AM
GUEST,CS 30 Aug 12 - 10:02 AM
Sawzaw 30 Aug 12 - 10:18 AM
Little Hawk 30 Aug 12 - 11:18 AM
GUEST,Eliza 30 Aug 12 - 12:34 PM
GUEST,DDT 30 Aug 12 - 01:38 PM
GUEST,A Reg. 30 Aug 12 - 01:55 PM
GUEST,DDT 30 Aug 12 - 03:24 PM
GUEST,Eliza 30 Aug 12 - 03:33 PM
Jeri 30 Aug 12 - 03:39 PM
Henry Krinkle 30 Aug 12 - 03:47 PM
Little Hawk 30 Aug 12 - 04:06 PM
GUEST,Eliza 30 Aug 12 - 04:17 PM
gnu 30 Aug 12 - 04:53 PM
GUEST,DDT 30 Aug 12 - 06:51 PM
gnu 30 Aug 12 - 06:56 PM
GUEST,DDT 31 Aug 12 - 12:09 AM
Little Hawk 31 Aug 12 - 12:54 AM
Lonesome EJ 31 Aug 12 - 01:10 AM
Bonzo3legs 31 Aug 12 - 03:03 AM
gnu 31 Aug 12 - 07:58 AM
Little Hawk 31 Aug 12 - 11:22 AM
Henry Krinkle 31 Aug 12 - 11:53 AM
Little Hawk 31 Aug 12 - 12:16 PM
Henry Krinkle 31 Aug 12 - 12:33 PM
Sawzaw 31 Aug 12 - 06:36 PM
GUEST,CS 31 Aug 12 - 06:54 PM
gnu 31 Aug 12 - 07:26 PM
Henry Krinkle 31 Aug 12 - 07:55 PM
gnu 31 Aug 12 - 08:04 PM
Henry Krinkle 31 Aug 12 - 08:10 PM
gnu 31 Aug 12 - 08:28 PM
GUEST,CS 31 Aug 12 - 08:28 PM
Bobert 31 Aug 12 - 08:45 PM
GUEST,999 01 Sep 12 - 12:09 AM
number 6 01 Sep 12 - 01:08 AM
Little Hawk 01 Sep 12 - 01:12 AM
number 6 01 Sep 12 - 01:13 AM
Lonesome EJ 01 Sep 12 - 02:57 AM
Henry Krinkle 01 Sep 12 - 04:11 AM
GUEST,Eliza 01 Sep 12 - 05:02 AM
gnu 01 Sep 12 - 07:44 AM
Little Hawk 01 Sep 12 - 11:05 AM
Richard Bridge 01 Sep 12 - 11:13 AM

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Subject: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: number 6
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 01:03 AM

Hmmmmm ...well I do know that reknowned scientist David Suzuki has made similar points regarding the harm that cannabis smoking on younger teen aged pot smokers

Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 04:20 AM

That begs the question. Do you have to have a low IQ to smoke cannabis in the first place?


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: gnu
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 07:18 AM

"Stopping or reducing cannabis use failed to fully restore the lost IQ."

So, I may as well take it up again?


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: number 6
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 09:00 AM

good one gnu !

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 09:01 AM

There's little doubt that marijuana is getting worse and worse as time goes by. It's not cute anymore.

No, gnu, don't take it up again. If you have money you just don't know what to do with, buy fine chocolate instead.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 09:04 AM

They'll probably find chocolate fries your brain before they're through.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 09:08 AM

Works the opposite for me... The more I smoke the smarter I am...

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it...

B;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Sawzaw
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 09:17 AM

Check out the official position of the Obama Administration on pot, courtesy of the leader of the Choom Gang."

Marijuana

Marijuana and other illicit drugs are addictive and unsafe especially for use by young people. As officials with the National Institute on Drug Abuse state, drug addiction is a progressive disease and the earlier one starts, the more likely are the chances of developing a substance use disorder.

Marijuana contains chemicals that can change how the brain works. And the science, though still evolving in terms of long-term consequences of marijuana use, is clear: marijuana use is associated with addiction, respiratory and mental illness, poor motor performance, and cognitive impairment, among other negative effects. This is especially troubling since research suggests one-in-11 people who ever used marijuana will become dependent on it; this risk rises to one-in-six when use begins in adolescence.   In 2009, marijuana was involved in 376,000 emergency department visits nationwide............"


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 09:29 AM

In 2009, marijuana was involved in 376,000 emergency department visits nationwide............"

These doctors, if they're not at the surgical spirit it's something else! M*A*S*H* was clearly a documentary, not a sitcom.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: meself
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 09:34 AM

Let's talk about the long-term effects of the War on Drugs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 09:35 AM

Wait... what were we talking about?


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 12:11 PM

"Do you have to have a low IQ to smoke cannabis in the first place?"

No! You just have to be a conformist and bow to peer group pressure. ;-) I know this, having seen it all around me in my own youth. Being a lifelong nonconformist, I didn't join in, but virtually everyone I knew did, including some very smart people. Virtually everyone smoked back then too. I didn't. Virtually everyone drank. I did that very moderately, not enough to cause me any harm. (In short: if all the world's alcohol had disappeared, I would hardly have noticed.)

"Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ"

So do young drinkers and smokers, I've noticed. ;-) Why does this surprise anyone? Does this mean that pot, alcohol, and cigarettes should all be made illegal...along with everything else that causes risk of a lower IQ? If so, how would we effectively enforce such laws? (Answer: we would not be able to...and the laws would create a larger problem than the original problem they were put in place to address! Historical evidence for this: Prohibition of alcohol...it was an unenforcable disaster.)

You cannot FORCE a general public to make all of the best personal lifestyle choices that you wish they would by intimidating them with punitive laws and treating them as criminals. If you try to do it, you will fail, because people like deciding for themselves how they are going to live and whether or not they are going to eat healthy food, injest healthful substances, exercise, etc.

What you can do is regulate the marketing of food and other common substances with certain basic standards of safety...as we do with food that is bought at grocery stores, for example. But you can't stop people from eating using such substances altogether...or at least you shouldn't, because it should be their choice to eat pork if they want to, smoke tobacco if they want to, have a drink if they want to, and smoke pot if they want to. It's their business, and nobody else's.

You also can't FORCE other people to be smart. Or to be good. Or to be kind. But you CAN set a good example yourself. That would be more effective, seems to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 12:26 PM

The most amusing portrayals of veteran pot smokers were done by Cheech and Chong. Like veteran drinkers, they have provided comedians with a lot of good material.

The question is, what do most people want more in life...

To have a high IQ?

Or to have some fun?

If you look around you carefully, I think you'll find much evidence that a great many of them tend to focus more on the 2nd choice. This does not require the imposition of harsh laws, it just requires a certain amount of tolerance for other people's imperfections.

If you expect everyone else to be as perfect as YOU are....(I'm saying that with tongue firmly planted in cheek)....you are bound to be disappointed! ;-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 03:00 PM

I really suspect that pot DOES affect the brain in some ways.... too much data says so. I also suspect that cost of fighting it and filling the jails with offenders may be a worse problem.

It (pot) may not be as bad as excessive booze as far as society is concerned, though it may have a hard-to-measure effect on individuals. We KNOW that people react differently, and some do some stupid things while full of cannabis that they wouldn't do while 'sober'....

What I suspect is that **since** society has to deal with illegal pot, and that in not likely to ease, we may as well have some control over its legal distribution and collect some taxes.

There is no absolute answer to all this, but given the state of the war, we might as well give a try to legalizing a lot of the growing and distribution.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 03:10 PM

The folks who want to lock pot users up are the ones SCREAMING the loudest that they want their "freedom"???

No victim, no crime...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 03:13 PM

"Do you have to have a low IQ to smoke cannabis in the first place?"

No! You just have to be a conformist and bow to peer group pressure.


You assume a lot. I did smoke pot but not due in any way to peer pressure. In fact I had to start hanging out with a different group of friends when smoking became my preference because the folks I had been (mostly) hanging with did not smoke. Many in the new group were already my friends but they were not the folks I (mostly) hung out with until I started smoking.
Peer pressure had zero to do with it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 03:40 PM

My work with prisoners in Prison Visiting taught me how badly skunk weed affected the young men. Quite a few became schizophrenic or completely unresponsive and zombie-like. Whole wings of the prison stank, as skunk is very strong stuff. I can quite believe it has a harmful effect on IQ. Smoking 'pot' as was done in the sixties, wasn't the same thing. This latest stuff is much more powerful and IMO should be re-classified as a Class A drug. I suppose the Prison Officers liked to let the lads smoke it as in theory it 'calmed them down'. Very worrying.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Becca72
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 03:43 PM

An ex boyfriend of mine started smoking when he was around 13-14 years old and he's a fuckin' idiot... but the two may or may not be related. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 03:51 PM

I've often thought that there's much to be said for putting an age limit on recreational drugs. For example if smoking cannabis coud be made to sound like an activity for old hippies, that could perhaps make it a bit less appealing to young people.

And of course it would be much more relaxing for us old hippies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 06:18 PM

Something one seldom hears is the following statement (from the site Number 6 linked):

"It is such a special study that I'm fairly confident that cannabis is safe for over-18 brains, but risky for under-18 brains."


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,amergin
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 06:46 PM

I think it just depends on the parameters you are using to test their IQ. For instance, if you ask them bigger and better ways to smoke the grass, what type of munchies are best when stoned, the best music to listen to when stoned, and the best type of grass to smoke, I am positive the results would be in the genius range.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: gnu
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 06:56 PM

Well, now, c'mon eh? Light shit on fire and suck it into your lungs? Boil it and drink the resulting crud? OF COURSE it ain't no good for you. Neither is alcohol, religion, casual sex, salt, stress... wait... casual sex?... yeah... okay, it isn't good... well... no it isn't... SOB! Okay... just for tonight and then never again... hey, baby... ya feel like havin a toke an messin around?

And that leads to heroin addiction so don't smoke dope eh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 06:58 PM

I have no problem with you smoking (or having smoked) pot, KB. And in your case it may have had, as you say, nothing to do with peer pressure.

The impression I had, however, in my own youthful days was that most young people smoked pot for the same reasons they smoked cigarettes and drank beer.

1. "Everyone else" was doing it, so they wanted to do it too.

2. Everyone who was "cool" was doing it, and God forbid that they should be seen as uncool! Or even worse...as wimps or "straights"! Basically, if your parents were against it (and it wasn't a major crime committed against other people) it was cool.

3. They thought it would be fun. And for many, it certainly was. I don't have a problem with that.

And then there were some for whom it became a kind of religion.

These last were the people so amusingly caricatured by Cheech and Chong, and I knew a few who fit right into that mould. It got so bad that practically the only thing they wanted to talk about was different varieties of pot and hash and hash oil, where it came from, how it was made, what kind of high it provided, how pure it was, etc.

I don't know if that sounds like any of the people you hung out with at the time. But I do know this: users should not be prosecuted for use of it or possession of small quantities of it.   

Nor should people be prohibited from growing it for their own private use. If they could, that would eliminate the criminal trade in marijuana right fast, because their customer base for marijuana would vanish. They wouldn't be able to make good money off it any longer, and they'd move off into something else...as criminals always do when a golden marketing opportunity dries up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 07:44 PM

Yeah, peer pressure does play into it... But after ya' catch a nice buzz once, you ain't doing it for them... Yer doin' it for you...

But there's more... Ya' take something and amke it illegal and guess what kids are gonna want to do??? Yup... Smoke weed just because they are, ahhhh...

...kids... That's what kids do...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 07:48 PM

Yup. And they always have. Probably always will.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: gnu
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 08:34 PM

Don't make it right. Don't make it wrong for anyone to try to tell them not to be stupid. They are free to do so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 09:06 PM

Well, kids are generally smart enough to know not to rape, murder, steal, etc...the basic moral stuff. But they're also smart enough to see the hypocrisy of adults who get drunk...or smoke tobacco...or cheat on their wives...but who tell their kids not to smoke pot!

And they react accordingly. They rebel against that hypocrisy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: gnu
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 09:09 PM

Don't make it right. Don't make it wrong for anyone to try to tell them not to be stupid. They are free to do so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Amos
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 11:06 PM

Actually, although I hain't smoked pot in many and many a year, my memory is that the reasons for doing so were not peer pressure or the enticement of illegality, but intense curiosity about new ways to perceive the universe. Of course, those I smoked with felt the same way, but still...


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Fossil
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 04:53 AM

A bit worrying - I find myself agreeing with gnu!

Never been able to smoke dope ( a lifelong non-smoker, I found that I just couldn't inhale without setting off 20 minutes of choking). OK when baked into cakes or the like, but difficult to control the dose and I did make some horrendously bad decisions while having ingested a bit much. Bought a very unsuitable boat while under the affluence, but was fortunately able to get out on a technicality later on.

And that was on good 'ole seventies mellow weed. The new stuff is more like a kick upside the head - definitely makes one more aggressive. Can easily see what it might do to a 15 year old. And like the old stuff, the new stuff is cumulative, takes days and days to clear the system, hangs around messing up your head forever while you wonder what's going on and try to concentrate on the maths exam or whatever.

Young folk should avoid the ganja, that's for sure!


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 04:58 AM

"Young folk should avoid the ganja, that's for sure!"

That's what the study showed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 05:47 AM

In spite of the amusing and jokey comments here, schizophrenia isn't funny, and neither is catatonic depressive illness. I personally knew THREE young people, brother, sister and cousin from the same family. The brother became addicted to skunk and spent in total 16 years in prison from drug-related burglaries to fund a heroin habit. His cousin was tipped into schizophrenia from cannabis use. He spent months on end in a local mental hospital. And the sister? She committed suicide having become psychotic and strange, smoking skunk constantly and hiding in her flat. She was 31 and left a small toddler daughter. Not funny at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 09:00 AM

It got so bad that practically the only thing they wanted to talk about was different varieties of pot and hash and hash oil, where it came from, how it was made, what kind of high it provided, how pure it was, etc.

A bit like with some people a Real Ale. Or Folk Music for that matter...


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 09:17 AM

LH makes the most sense here but I do not believe eliminating the law against something fixes the problem of enforcing the law.

Why not just eliminate all laws? Eliminate the prisons and we will all be better off. Look at all the money we would save.

Before we decide to eliminate drug laws, study what it has accomplished in other countries.

I personally believe smoking pot takes away one's ambition. It may not be true for every one. I abstain because I realized that it affected my perception of reality. People claim it lets you see reality.

If that is true, why weren't we born with the correct perception of reality?

As for the POT-US, we have a typical two faced politician grasping for power, not the hope and change guy that was going to change the way Washington works. He has one face for what he perceives as the majority of voters, Anti-pot so they will vote for him. The other face is a veteran pot head choomer so he is "with" the pot heads too so they will vote for him. Yeah he's cool so we need to vote for him and all that shit on his website is to fool the squares, wink wink heh heh. They are salivating waiting for the day that he "evolves" [flipflops and decides it is will help his relection] and over rides the drug laws by fiat.

People bitch and raise hell about the right wingers with a gun but they ignore the "garden variety criminal" that they claim have no political affiliation that cap each other daily over drugs or drug related robberies.

Surely if we didn't enforce the drug laws, those murders would be reduced. Or would they increase?


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 09:41 AM

It's a killer. Every weekend night thousands fill emergency rooms. Screwed up out of their minds. Some live. Some die. Many go on to become rapists and sex maniacs.
The only answer is complete extermination of drug users and offenders.
Anyone failing to pass a drug test should be given a lethal injection. Immediately.
(:-( o)=
Drug offenders shot on sight.
(:-( [)=


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 09:45 AM

Spoken in the true spirit of Harry Anslinger, Henry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 10:06 AM

He knew a good thing when he saw it.
(:-( ))=


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 10:35 AM

Are you trying to be funny, Henry? I think you must be. At least 90% of the entire generation of young people I grew up in would have qualified to be "shot on sight" under what you suggest, and that's a conservative estimate. Yeah...you must be trying to be funny, I guess.

Then too, we could shoot all the drinkers and smokers as well, because just LOOK at how many people end up in emergency rooms and cancer wards due to that! And look at all the violence and property damage that results from drinking. Ouch.

Hell, let's just kill all of them now and make the world a less violent place for us....the GOOD people! ;-D I figure a program like that would reduce the population to a bare 5% of the present one, eliminate most lawyers and politicians too AND get rid of most of our relatives to boot. Pollution would be cut to a bare minimum. Nature would re-assert itself. There'd be enough land and food for all. It would be a paradise!

Why are we waiting???? (Heh!)

****

Sawzaw - Yeah, I agree with a number of things you said there, such as...

"I personally believe smoking pot takes away one's ambition. It may not be true for every one."

Seems like that to me, based on what I've seen over the years. It isn't true for all pot users, but it is for many...specially those who are regular smokers rather than occasional ones. I guess some are just more vulnerable than others. The same is true with alcohol...some people are very vulnerable to it, others are not much affected and don't tend to abuse it.

***

"Why not just eliminate all laws?" Not a valid point, Sawzaw. Laws are definitely needed against crimes which are a direct violation of someone else's freedom or that directly endanger and hurt others (murder, assault, theft, rape, break-ins, fraud, slander, reckless driving, running red lights, etc.). Laws are NOT needed against someone who limits his OWN freedom and health through his own stupidity. That is his own choice, and it is not a direct assault upon another human being or his property, therefore it is, in my opinion, no business of the legal community. If it was, we could jail people for overeating, not exercising regularly, watching too much TV, and spending too much time posting on Internet Talk Forums........YIKES!!!!!!!!!   ;-D

***

"As for the POT-US, we have a typical two faced politician grasping for power, not the hope and change guy that was going to change the way Washington works."

Amen!

And if you elect Romney...you'll have another. (sigh)

****

Regarding the people in drug gangs who kill each other on the streets of our cities... Well, I don't know anyone who isn't upset about that, "liberals" included. We're all upset about it. Legalizing pot wouldn't affect it one way or another, because the drug gangs would simply lose interest in pot and move to other illegal drugs...something they're already doing anyway. Isn't crack the favorite one these days? Should all addictive drugs be legalized? Well, I don't think they should be legalized for marketing purposes, and I don't recommend legalizing pot for marketing purposes. But I think that prosecuting users is the wrong approach. It's marketers of illegal substances who should be prosecuted, not users. Users, if they cannot control their levels of use sensibly, should be treated for a medical problem...not for being criminals. They aren't criminals. They're people with an addiction, and an addiction needs medical treatment and counseling, not punishment.

Medical treatment and counseling are far more complex, take a longer time, and cost more than just arresting people and throwing them in jail with REAL criminals...where they are likely to learn how to become real criminals...or maybe just hang themselves in despair.

I suggest, therefore, that it is the sheer laziness, stinginess, and lack of patience of the "good" people which causes them to favor throwing the despised drug user in jail. They can't be bothered actually addressing the problem in a way that might heal it. They're too short-tempered, too lazy, too stingy, and otherwise uninterested to bother.

That suggests to me that most of the so-called "good" people who want to jail the drug user are really just as irresponsible and good for nothing as the drug user himself....but they imagine themselves to be the height of respectability and propriety. Such pride goeth before a fall! ;-D

*****

My basic reaction to (the idea of using) pot was the same as yours. "I abstain(ed) because I realized that it affected my perception of reality." Bingo! That's exactly why I abstained. And it's also why I don't like to get drunk. I want my perception of reality to remain clear and natural. I trust reality as it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 11:08 AM

Ever see an egg on drugs ??? It ain't a pretty sight.
Even Mr. Potato-Head has given up the pipe, ever since he got on the Prozac.
but he still gets out his "Gotta Stay High Cuz Pigs Don't Fly" T-shirt when Willie Nelson is in town


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 01:33 PM

I haven't in any of my postings above advocated either imprisonment, or punishment, of cannabis users. Neither have I suggested that all drugs be banned and criminalised. But if skunk were to be re-classified as Class A, it would help in educating everyone about its inherent dangers. And believe me please it IS dangerous to those individuals who are at risk from developing mental illness, who are vulnerable to graduate to even more addictive drugs and who are struggling with self-esteem issues and miserably deprived lives. It makes me sad when folk joke and boast about drugs. I've seen the 'down' side of them, and cannot bring myself to view them as recreational pleasures. The young people I've worked with were in a pitiable state that would move anyone to deep concern.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,A Regular who wishes to remain anonymous
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 03:46 PM

Some facts from my perspective.

I tested 148


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 03:54 PM

If it wasn't dope, it'd be something else.
Gambling, shopping, sex, porno, internet yakking, religion, folk music, golf.
People have addictive personalities.
It's just their way.
(:-( ))=


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,A Regular who pushed the wrong button.
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 05:17 PM

Didn't take my first toke until I was 17. The downside of grass (Delta 9 THC) is that the only place to get it is from people who are by definition criminals. Since growing it yourself makes even 'you' a criminal, you're up the creek w/o a paddle if you want some.

Most people who have posted are speaking from the heart and that's cool by me. However, much of what has come from their hearts is less than accurate but certainly understandable given the tremendous amount of bologna that has been sponsored by governments.

My brother committed suicide. He smoked grass from time to time, but he killed himself because he was schizophrenic, not because he took a toke now and then.

The 148 number below was my usual IQ test result until I was 35 when I re-tested and was measured five points lower at 143. It seems to have remained at that number. (I too agree that deciding about people based on IQ is--for want of a better word--stupid.)

1) Marijuana is not addicting. That is bullshit. There are zero studies to support that notion. However, for instance is not proof. I smoked frequently for 18 years. When I earned a B ED, I just didn't anymore for 22 years. Why? Because criminal records do not meld well with Teacher Certificates. I retired from teaching and commenced smoking again. Over a twenty years break. Sheesh. Withdrawal for over twenty years. Do you believe that?

2) Marijuana was legally available in drug stores until Harry F**kwit Anslinger went on his campaign.

3) Whoever mentioned below that hospital ERs are filled with people who did bad stuff because they had "toked up" is a liar, plain and simple. Of course, I will admit that I fell in love with Sara Lee because of grass. One sweet lady whom I have never forgot.

4) In the 1960s, good grass was about 4-6% THC content. These days, it's between 20-25 % THC. So, whoever said it's stronger these days is correct. So, now what I do is take one toke instead of five. I prefer organic grass.

5) I asked my oncologist for a prescription. I have lung cancer (and maybe a few other difficulties yet to be determined) which is static right now. He referred me to a doctor who will give a prescription for synthetic MJ--a substance I had in 1967 or so--and it is not the Real Thing, kinda like Coca Cola drinkers having to have Pepsi, or the reverse. So, I buy what I use on the "GASP", black market.

6) Why do I 'poison' myself with tetrahydrocanabinol? Because there is no way to legally get heroin to kill the pain. I do not give a fuck why any of you think MJ is bad. It never was bad for me, and that's that.

7) Kids and grass.

I would punch the shit out of anyone giving/selling grass to kids. As my best friend says, "That's not on."

8) Moses did things in tens, and nine's coming up.

9) Grass will not ease the pain when my last few weeks/months come. I will want heroin, the Gucci shoes of drugs. I will not be able to get any (well I will, but "My best friend the doctor won't even tell me what it is I got"). Don't fool yourselves, you'll break any 'law' to get away from pain. Been there, done that, own the t-shirt.

10) There are many well-meaning people who have posted to this thread. Some have degrees (I have one too, with distinction I will add--that is, the degree was awarded to me 'with distinction' because of my academic verve or what ever it's called), but during these last times of my life I feel I have little of it left for bullshit. So, if you do not know what you are talking about, kindly STFU. No one will castigate you for that.

Well, I won't, anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: gnu
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 06:24 PM

Regular... I have a Master's in Engineering but that don't have squat to do with the fact that all drugs are bad UNLESS they are good. Unfortunately, some people think they should be able to imopose their will on others regarding the use of drugs... equally as bad.

The discussion becomes absurd when society says pot is bad and alcohol is good. Some of those agin it say alcohol should be banned too... good luck with that. Fact is, if pot was legal there would be FAR LESS health problems because most people would delete alcohol. Fact is, most people who shit on pot (maybe) just don't understand it and, especially, don't need it as a drug in the treatment of chronic pain.

Bottom line... all drugs are bad unless they are good. As far as a few people telling everyone else what to do every fucking minute of the day... far worse than any drug.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 06:26 PM

The proposition that you're not sharp as a tack after smoking a few joints.....

You needed a professor to tell you that....?


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,A Reg:
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 07:30 PM

Dear Gnu and Al,

Thank youse both.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 07:35 PM

Good post, "A regular...."   Harry Anslinger has a lot to answer for.

Funny, both the Right and the Left always complain that the other side wants to "control people" and deprive them of their freedom. The fact is, they both want to control people....only in a different set of ways, that's all. And they only notice that as a problem when the other one does it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: gnu
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 07:38 PM

No sweat here, Reggie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 08:33 PM

I still enjoy the occasional toke. Keeps me from getting to be too smart for my own good.
It's been legal for all intents and purposes in Colorado for several years now, and there has been no detectable increase in the use of other drugs, and a decrease in drug crime, and it has become a huge revenue source for the state. Not seeing the negatives here, folks. Whether you smoke or not doesn't appear to me to be a conformist behavior, anymore than does the enjoyment of scotch, or coffee, or chocolate, for that matter.
Let's all get smarter and just legalize it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 09:11 PM

Two pot-heads were sitting in their apartment getting higher than a couple of kites. Suddenly there's an imperious knock on the door, along with the announcement, "This is the police! Open up!"

They looked around the room desperately, looking for somewhere they could hide the joint they were passing back and forth, then one of them opened the little door of the cuckoo clock and pegged it inside. Then, they let the police in before they pounded the door off its hinges.

The police searched the apartment wall to wall, top to bottom, looking into desk drawers, bureau drawers, in the light fixtures, everywhere. The place reeked with pot smoke, so they knew it was in there somewhere, but they couldn't find it. So they gave up as the guys sat there with silly smirks on their faces.

Just as the police were leaving, the little door of the cuckoo clock slowly creaked open. The little bird looked out all bleary-eyed and said, "Hey, man! What time is it?"

Busted!

Never use the stuff myself.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 09:29 PM

I've smoked pot since 1967... During that time I have:

Gotten two college degrees
Taught school
Worked as a GED teacher in the Richmond City Jail
Worked at a drug rehab (yeah) facility
Been a social worker
Been an assistant service manager at the largest Chevy dealer in central Va.
Owned and managed auto related businesses from 1982 until 2005 and...

...comfortably retired and...

...still buzzin'...

Pot ain't the problem... How you live your life is...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 09:47 PM

But just think what you might have achieved if you hadn't smoked pot, Bob. You could be a Republican Congressman by now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 10:12 PM

LOL, EeeeeJaaaa...

BTW, Cowabunga and don't Bogart that joint, my friend...

B:~)


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 10:31 PM

Chongo's testimonial is a lot like yours, Bobert. He has smoked heavily and drunk heavily ever since the 1930s, and it hasn't stopped him from becoming a famous crime fighter, an inveterate skirt-chaser, a household name across America, a courageous champion of species equality, and a candidate for president! ;-)

I wonder what would have happened had he abstained from cigars and hard liquor, though? Might he have done even greater things?

We'll never know...


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Aug 12 - 10:37 PM

1930s???

Well, I guess he is gonna blame his pot smokin' on why he can't figure out the toilet???

Is that his last answer, LH???

B;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Aug 12 - 03:27 AM

He doesn't smoke pot, Bobert. I told you, his chosen recreational drugs are alcohol and tobacco.

1930s? Yeah. He came over on the banana boat in the early 30's, landed in New York, then moved to Chicago by the late 30's. He's one heck of a lively character considering his age! I can't account for it. He says it's due to all the booze and cigars...claims that they promote longevity.

You never know...maybe he made some kind of special deal at "the crossroads". Like Robert Johnson is reputed to have done. He was a contemporary of Humphrey Bogart, Errol Flynn, and Johnny Weismuller, fer Chrissake! They're long gone, but Chongo is still raisin' hell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Aug 12 - 06:03 AM

LH:

I agree about eliminating the laws but when an activity leads to people violating other people's right, that activity should be illegal.

For example people stealing and killing to obtain money for drugs. Also the criminal activity associated with supplying drugs.

Some say if a drug is made legal, the crime associated wit it will go away. I do not believe it. People can buy liquor but there are still moonshiners and violence associated with that.

Sometimes pot use leads to other illegal activity. If you watch Cops, seems like every time they pull a wobbly or suspicious driver over, they find drugs, guns, cash, stolen car, drivers license or registration violation, someone on probation, wanted criminals etc. It seems to come in a package of associated crimes.

But not always. If someone wants to smoke pot and it does not send them in the usual downward spiral, fine but why should they try to promote as something everybody should do? Even then the suppliers of pot engage in criminal activity that harms society overall. But pot smokers don't want to talk about the murderers they are supporting.

To my mind, only a dumbass would smoke pot and brag about it as a badge of honor. Very unwise.

Yes, I smoked pot a few times and made a decision that it distorted my perception of things and I could live with out it. After the buzz went away everything was back to normal so what is the need? I will take normal over distorted any day.

I can handle the world as it is any time. Why do I need an escape, especially an illegal escape? I don't give a damn if alligators are up to my ass, I can deal with it better without any distortion of reality.

It is the people under the influence that run off of the road and kill them selves or that kill someone not under the influence. So what good is the influence?

One of the major distortions I experienced was inability to judge distances or sizes of things. Things seemed so close or so far, so big or so small. How in the hell can you drive without being able to judge distances? Use a saw? Drive a nail?

Music sounded better, colors were brighter, food tasted better, but what advantage is that when you can't operate normally?

I wonder how many accidents at home like falling or breaking something were caused by a buzz?

I have heard that reality is for people that can't handle drugs. I believe the opposite is true.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 30 Aug 12 - 10:02 AM

Strong strains of weed do screw with your brain quite badly - my usually low-key partner became convinced government helicopters were following him wherever he went. I tried to tell him at the time that he wasn't important enough and it was paranoia induced by the weed (not Skunk incidentally but 'White Widow' - one of stronger strains of weed out there with a THC content of 20-25%) but he persisted freaking out about black helicopters until his regular access ceased to be so easy and he consequently ceased smoking. Needless to say, I'm glad he hasn't smoked much since then.

Otherwise, most of the people I've known have regularly smoked resin over the years. A much milder brew which so far as I know anecdotally is not reputed to induce the kinds of extreme paranoia and psychosis that extremely strong strains of weed more likely to do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Aug 12 - 10:18 AM

For Bobert there is a Boss Hogg behind every Bush.

I think I felt a little paranoia while under a buzz.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Aug 12 - 11:18 AM

Sawzaw, I agree with your every point in your 2nd to last post, and I'd have to say my experience has been virtually identical to yours. After having been around many pot smokers for years and years, I eventually tried it on a handful of occasions...simply in order to investigate and find out what the experience was like and why people would bother. I didn't want to remain ignorant of the actual experience, since it seemed to be of such concern to so many people.

My conclusion was the same as yours: I "made a decision that it distorted my perception of things and I could live without it. After the buzz went away everything was back to normal so what is the need? I will take normal over distorted any day."

I think there is a strong desire to avoid (or alter) reality in a great many people. One reason for that is...they find life painful to a greater or lesser extent. They'd like to escape the pain for awhile, so they injest a substance that helps them escape the pain for awhile. This could be alcohol, pot, crack cocaine, tobacco, a cup of hot tea, food, whatever... ;-) Anything that's a diversion helps you get away from the pain of life for awhile.

(I mentioned food because some people are "recreational" eaters who way overdo it. They eat far more than their body needs, get very overweight, and hurt their health. That's a form of addiction too, and it's based on emotional problems in most cases.)

You've got to decide for yourself whether the thing you're injesting to make yourself "feel better" is worth whatever negative side effects you may suffer from it. My impression of pot was, it wasn't worth it for me. I wasn't all that impressed anyway, and like you, I prefer not to artificially distort my perception of reality.

For someone who is in chronic physical pain, though, it may definitely be worth it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 30 Aug 12 - 12:34 PM

The adverse effects of alcohol, even heroin and cocaine, overeating, smoking tobacco, can all (with effort and help) be reversed. But the mental illnesses and personality changes brought about by strong cannabis cannot. Once the schizophrenia has been triggered, the patient is on anti-psychotic medication for life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,DDT
Date: 30 Aug 12 - 01:38 PM

I'm sure pop culture has nothing to do with why kids are idiots these days.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,A Reg.
Date: 30 Aug 12 - 01:55 PM

Marijuana and schizophrenia.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,DDT
Date: 30 Aug 12 - 03:24 PM

>>>>Since the days of Reefer Madness, scientists have sought to understand the complex connection between marijuana and psychosis.<<<

What connection?? There has NEVER been a "connection." This statement simply assumes one and sets up the reader for the rest of this pseudoscientific article.

>>>>Cannabis can cause short-term psychotic experiences, such as hallucinations and paranoia, even in healthy people,<<<<<

In all my years of smoking marijuana I have NEVER had a hallucination. As for paranoia, I wouldn't recommend smoking pot if you're worrying over something as it tends to intensify that worry but then I wouldn't recommend using any drug if you're worried or pissed off or depressed (unless, of course, it's medication specifically to treat that condition). But, no, healthy people do not have hallucinations from smoking pot unless it's been treated with or taken in conjunction with some other drug that does induce hallucinations.

I have never known ANYONE who hallucinated on pot and I'm talking about going back decades and knowing hundreds of users.

>>>>>but researchers have also long noted a link between marijuana use and the chronic psychotic disorder, schizophrenia.<<<<

No they have not. While I do not smoke pot much these days, I was a very heavy user in my younger days. I am not nor have ever been schizophrenic and have never to my knowledge met anyone who is. If there was any link, there wouldn't be upwards of 20 million pot smokers in the U.S.

>>>>Repeatedly, studies have found that people with schizophrenia are about twice as likely to smoke pot as those who are unaffected. Conversely, data suggest that those who smoke cannabis are twice as likely to develop schizophrenia as nonsmokers.<<<<

Again, pure BS. One more time: if this was true the 20 million pot smokers in this country would be a HUGE threat to this nation's well-being. I don't think anybody TRULY believes this--except old, burned-out folkies long past the age of being useful to anyone much less themselves who are now trying to warn their children or grandchildren off using the same drugs they themselves used when they were growing up.

>>>>One widely publicized 2007 review of the research even concluded that trying marijuana just once was associated with a 40% increase in risk of schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders.<<<<

Again, WHO really believes this?? This is the same old shit we used to read in the 60s: "One puff of the demon weed and I grabbed an ax and hash-browned my wife and kids." Yeah, right. Junk science at best. It's the same crap we read about taking one puff of crack can make you an addict for life or that AIDS is spreading among heterosexuals faster than among homosexuals or intravenous drug-users--and pot-heads if articles like this could get away with saying it.

This crap is no more scientific than articles that can prove the earth is 6000 years old or that global warming is a liberal, athiest, commie plot.

What's funny is that SMOKING pot is probably not the greatest way to treat your lungs and yet these articles are less interested in discussing that than in trying to prove that pot transforms intelligent, responsible people into psychotic, gibbering idiots.

A pox on this shameless crap and a double pox on people too dumb to know pseudoscientific garbage when they read it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 30 Aug 12 - 03:33 PM

Thank you A Reg, most interesting. The issue of not taking ones medication affected one of the young people I mentioned on my earlier post. He often neglected to take his tablets and smoked cannabis instead. The result was very bad. At one point, he was found by police in the middle of an 'A' road trying to 'exterminate the aliens' (ie confronting approaching vehicles travelling at speed). He also tried to jump from a high wall, but a passer-by grabbed him. None of this is in the least funny or clever, just very sad indeed. He had been perfectly normal until his late teens, when the drug-taking began.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Aug 12 - 03:39 PM

The article also tells us
In recent months, new research has explored some of these issues. One study led by Dr. Serge Sevy, an associate professor of psychiatry at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York City, looked at 100 patients between the ages of 16 and 40 with schizophrenia, half of whom smoked marijuana. Sevy and colleagues found that among the marijuana users, 75% had begun smoking before the onset of schizophrenia and that their disease appeared about two years earlier than in those who did not use the drug. But when the researchers controlled for other factors known to influence schizophrenia risk, including gender, education and socioeconomic status, the association between disease onset and marijuana disappeared.
(Emphasis mine) You can't just cherry-pick parts that turn your crank.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 30 Aug 12 - 03:47 PM

I think the total lack of integrity in the average American is a much bigger problem than any drug use. Most people's word is worthless.
They lie, cheat, steal anything from anybody. And it's fine and dandy by them.
They should be ashamed, but they have no shame.
(:-( ))=


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Aug 12 - 04:06 PM

Excellent point, Jeri.

People usually decide FIRST about something controversial, according to their usual customary set of prejudices, preferences, and fears what they want to consider as "the truth". Then they hunt around and cherry-pick whatever bits of "evidence" and opinion seem to best fit their desire and they ignore (or don't even notice) the rest.

It's easier that way. And far more satisfying. You could call it "selective vision" or "selective blindness". The mass media do that too when they bring us what they term "the news".   They find exactly what they wanted to find before they went out looking.

If you think in terms of hammering, everything becomes a nail.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 30 Aug 12 - 04:17 PM

The family I have been describing were all treated by the same psychiatrist, who told me herself (I was involved as a volunteer support agent) that cannabis had played a huge part in the problems they had all suffered, and in her opinion had triggered incipient, genetic schizophrenia. After having attended the funeral of the young woman, I decided not to continue this work as it was so very harrowing and sad. I can accept that perhaps the psychiatrist was not up-to-date with the latest research, as this was quite a few years ago.I do however feel that the number of folk in the research group in the article above was not large.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: gnu
Date: 30 Aug 12 - 04:53 PM

Hank..., "I think the total lack of integrity in the average American is a much bigger problem than any drug use. Most people's word is worthless. They lie, cheat, steal anything from anybody. And it's fine and dandy by them. They should be ashamed, but they have no shame."

That's rather endearing.

No shame? That's almost laughable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,DDT
Date: 30 Aug 12 - 06:51 PM

>>>>I do however feel that the number of folk in the research group in the article above was not large.<<<<

The above article was useless as anything educational. Its purpose was to put out anti-pot propaganda. Its title is totally misleading and couple that with the first few paragraphs that I quoted and that's all most people are going to read of it so its purpose was served. Reading further turns out to be a waste of time because it then admits that the info in the first few paragraphs was BS. Then it states that those with schizo natures may develop them from smoking pot but then it goes on to state that pot may actually have beneficial effects with schizo patients. Then it winds it up with saying that people still shouldn't take it because we really can't be sure how it effects people and hence it could be bad for them.

So what do you learn from the article? Nothing. It had nothing to say of any importance. Its purpose was to put out anti-pot propaganda through its midleading title and first few paragraphs.

It's indicative the useless information that the mass media bombards us with everyday that we have become so inured to that we accept it as something worthwhile.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: gnu
Date: 30 Aug 12 - 06:56 PM

What amazes me is that the studies I have read about don't have a sound basis. That is, they don't have a contolled sample group (yeah, I KNOW it's almost impossible... which is sommat else that bugs me) or a controlled reporting procedure or anything else controlled. D'ya s'pouse the researchers are on the ganja er what eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,DDT
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 12:09 AM

You have to understand why that happens: all research is funded. The researchers are indebted to the funders and must basically produce the results that the funders want to see. The experiments and what not are all set up to give the desired results and hence no real control groups. They don't dare bite the hand that feeds them. And if you want AMA or ADA or Heart Association or any other groups' endorsement on your study, you just buy it with the funder's money (and permission). No joke--their endorsements are for sale. You buy the endorsements you want. People will think these groups actually cared about that study and have looked it over. Sorry but they are too busy counting the money to care about the study.

It's all bullshit. We live in the age of bullshit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 12:54 AM

Perfectly stated, DDT. You have described the problem with most present day research quite correctly. It serves the predetermined purposes of those organizations who funded it. If not, further funding is not made available to the research group, and the results are not published.

We not only live in the age of BS and propaganda, we live in the age of institutional (and media) cowardice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 01:10 AM

Ah me. When you don't like or approve of something, how comforting it is to aloofly call it a weakness. And I want someone to tell me how many marijuana addicts have murdered someone to procure more weed.
Ever heard of live and let live?
And because something's legal, it doesn't mean anyone is required or even encouraged to consume it. I would never even offer you a glass of Cabernet if it's an insult to your inner strength and appreciation or reality.
But to criminalize something as innocuous as marijuana smoking makes me wonder how secure in your reality you really are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 03:03 AM

people who smoke anything must have a low IQ!


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: gnu
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 07:58 AM

LEJ... or call it a deficiency. Aloof and simplistic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 11:22 AM

Yikes! I agree with Bonzo about something. I always thought that smoking anything was a really weird idea...it makes no sense at all. No animal would be so stupid. If you want to enjoy the THC in pot, do the sensible thing...eat it!

This proves that we can all find common ground if we just look hard enough. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 11:53 AM

Let's discuss children and glue sniffing.
Do you think when they run out of pot they sniff glue?
Does it lower their IQ?
gnu?
(:-( ))=


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 12:16 PM

Does it ever! My friends with the hobby shop would occasionally get some wretched teenage individual coming in to buy glue...and with obviously no interest in hobbies whatsoever. These individuals, always males, were clearly missing a good 50% of their original brain cells, and my friends would tell them, "Sorry, we don't stock that tube glue anymore."

Then there's gasoline sniffing...a seemingly popular way of destroying those pesky brain cells on some of our Canadian Native reservations in far nothern communities.

It's amazing what people will do to escape their pain.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 12:33 PM

Aerosol propellants.
(:-( O)=


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Sawzaw
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 06:36 PM

I used to smoke cigarettes. I just wanted to fit in.

I decided to quit. It wasn't easy, It took maybe 10 years for the desire to go away.

Now that I have quit and I see other people smoking, it seems like the dumbest thing a person could do to themselves.

What is the need? What is the advantage other than the cool factor?


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 06:54 PM

It's nice that the old stoners here have never felt any bad effects from their odd joint - most old stoners I know don't either, but the reality is that modern *strong* weed strains do have a damaging impact upon the mind.

I'm in too close contact with both dealers and users to not know that this is objectively so. Eliza has her own experiences from a different direction, neither of us are lacking in experience here, but this thread reeks of overage teenage posturing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: gnu
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 07:26 PM

Hank... "Let's discuss children and glue sniffing.
Do you think when they run out of pot they sniff glue?
Does it lower their IQ?
gnu?"

No. Does what lower their IQ?

I think you need to find out what has lowered your IQ that causes you to ask such inane questions and to not be able to form proper thoughts and convey them in written language.

... "but the reality is that modern *strong* weed strains do have a damaging impact upon the mind."

Give us some facts and figures and bear in mind that not all druggies smoke drugs the way you think they do.

"It's amazing what people will do to escape their pain."

Indeed it is, LH. Just as amazing as what some people will do to cause others pain. Twisting words and arguements, make innuendos, spewing "facts" without any evidence... controls freaks the lot. Well, except for any obvious trolls.

Smoke em if ya got em.

BTW, I was watchin a buddy die this afternoon in palliative care at the hop until he fell asleep and I figured it was time to go. He is kinda sick, eh? The methadone dose wasn't doin the trick so they upped it 25% and it makes him sleepy. The oxy is gone (assholes for $) so it's all they can do until he needs morphine... I guess. Oh, yeah, right, no morphine on accounta we are at war with those heathen bastards that grow the shit. Why, I hope Harper and Obama bomb the hell out of them so we can all be safe... after they finish spraying all the ganja crops with that shit that causes kidney failure and Parkinson's disease... that'll teach those pesky teenagers to mind their IQs!!! Who needs stupid teenagers anyway? May as well kill them as have them hang out at the mall smokin dope, right?


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 07:55 PM

They're just a bunch of panhandlers anyway.
Begging for money to buy dope.
And only dopes use dope.
(:-( P)=


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: gnu
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 08:04 PM

Yeah... that's about what I would expect from someone of your IQ.

I think this thread is a few points short of an IQ overall. sIx's OP was a good one and the discussion could have been meaningful but the ensuing bullshit stinks.

Sorry sIx.

gnightgnu


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 08:10 PM

You gnet gnold, gnu. Real gnold.
(:-( P)=


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: gnu
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 08:28 PM

And you lose more reality and intelligence points every time you post inane bullshit and incoherent arguements in unitelligible attempts at logic and language. Do you not realize your written words are posted for everyone in the entire world to read forever? Nobody is perfect but few fuck up as badly as you. You are a hack troll, at best. Have a toke and mellow out, man.

BTW, none for me. I stopped decades ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 08:28 PM

Hey Gnu, THC and the related mindfuck are not relevant to what Nurses do (illegally everyday) to help deeply sick people pass on. Different issue, thanks.

I know members of my own family have been fucked up and by high THC. weed.
I also know a lot of old stoners too, my Dad and many friends included. None bar immediate family have suffered serious mindfuck, only younger guys, so you old gits can pontificate however much you like, because it's not you old gits suffering from serious mental illnesses after all, that's for the younger gits.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 08:45 PM

You'd be amazed at how much CO2 an acre of cannibus turns into oxygen, ya'll and it can be turned into bio-fuel, building material, rope, clothing and hundreds of other things... It is the answer for the future and maybe actually get an entire generation a better life...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,999
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 12:09 AM

"I know members of my own family have been fucked up {{and}} by high THC. weed."

They shouldn't have been smoking it. Grass is like booze. It is NOT for everyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: number 6
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 01:08 AM

gnu ... no problem ... no need to apologize.

I certainly didn't expect this thread to get so many posts ... I did expect much the content of the posts to be as they are ... after all, this is the Madcat.

biLL ... ;)


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 01:12 AM

There is a legal hemp farm near here, and the hemp is used to make all kinds of useful products, including various types of highly nutritious food. You can't get high on this hemp. It contains virtually no THC.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: number 6
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 01:13 AM

Oh ...I'll add this in regards to Bobert's post @ 31 Aug 12 - 08:45 PM

hemp

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 02:57 AM

Smoking cigarettes is a stupid habit. I did it for 10 years and quit thirty two years ago. I got smart, you might say.
But I will also say this: If use of marijuana is a component of intelligence, then I would suggest it may have it's benefit, if the statements of those who indicate some use in this thread are weighed against those who don't. Anytime you find yourself agreeing with sawzall or whatever his name is, and Norman Crunkle, you might want to question your views, there LH.

BTW, well said gnu. You are quite a roller when you get a head of steam.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 04:11 AM

It's alcohol that causes the brain damage.
That, and buying lottery tickets.
(:-( ))=


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 05:02 AM

I think Little Hawk has made the most telling remark here:- "It's amazing what people will do to escape their pain." It would be excellent (and maybe in the far future it may happen) if people of all ages who were in psychological pain were nurtured and tended by society, given support and sincere concern and care, and helped to come to terms with whatever it was that damaged their happinesss. At present far too many folk are not getting this love and care. I know this sounds twee and vague, but nevertheless I defend it as the only real answer to the substance abuse among all age groups. A closer-knit society and culture would help. Too many people are alone, feel rejected and have been maltreated in various ways. I've often found Little Hawk's postings to be very insightful and balanced.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: gnu
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 07:44 AM

Eliza... "I know this sounds twee and vague..."

Not at all. It's bang on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 11:05 AM

Yup, you are right, Eliza. A much more supportive and humane society is the real solution to ending all kinds of abuse, drug abuse included. But it's a very complex solution that needs to be applied on many levels, so it tends to elude people who are primarily focused on money, competition, and survival.

LEJ - There are people I agree with about almost everything, people I agree with about a fair number of things, people I agree with about just a few things....but I have never yet encountered anyone that I agree with about absolutely NOTHING.


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Subject: RE: BS: Young pot smokers run risk of lower IQ
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 11:13 AM

100


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