Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: Mysha
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 09:59 PM

Hi,

Interesting what one can do with lyrics by taking them out of their context, isn't it?


Don't go changing, to try and please me
You never let me down before
...
I could not love you any better
I love you just the way you are.


Second is the best thing that could happen to First, First is totally in love with Second, and is telling Second so Second will know that too. Everything else is within that context. Not a compliment; a declaration of love.


Well, if you don't like context, there's always "My Girl Bill",

Bye
                                                                Mysha

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 05:19 AM

I was agreeing that "that's how a woman would see it." I think the song is one of those that can be interpreted in different ways. I said: "He's trying to get her to acknowledge her sexuality", as well as convince her to let loose. IMO the song isn't just about putting out.

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 05:17 AM

I was agreeing that "that's how a woman would see it." I think the song is one of those that can be interpreted in different ways. I said: "He's trying to get her to acknowledge her sexuality", as well as convince her to let loose. IMO the song isn't just about putting out.

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: meself
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 11:28 AM

Morwen,here is why I was and am still confused - not that it matters, of course: you gave a couple of interpretations in your initial post, though you seemed to prefer the one more favourable to Mr Joel (guy is trying to liberate girl from repression). I suggested that the less high-minded interpretation was more accurate (guy is pressuring girl to 'put out'). Our guest seemed to agree with me - adding that that is "how a woman would see it!" However, I was aware that you are a woman, and you seemed to favour what I had characterized as a more "generous" interpretation. Then you posted that, yes, as a woman, you agreed - presumably with guest Desi - who was presumably agreeing with me, and thus disagreeing with you - and now you've come back with what I take to be support for that more favourable interpretation that, if I'm not mistaken, both Desi and I take issue with - so, I'm as confused as ever -

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: Megan L
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 08:38 AM

I remember someone telling me once that the reason they called the table at the front of a church was because to many women had said their vows there thinking I'll alter him.

The song is gentle and loving, it does something so many people cant seem to manage these days it accepts the person as they are, not what someone else expects them to be.

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: GUEST,Ron
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 08:23 AM

"However, the song 'I Love You Just the Way You Are' really scrapes bottom, in my opinion."

I wouldn't leave you in times of trouble
We never could have come this far
I took the good times, I'll take the bad times
I'll take you just the way you are

Sounds good to me. Where's the problem?

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 08:07 AM

Meself: Desi C said "That's almost certainly how a woman would say it!" and I was agreeing with her (?) My interpretation is based on the lines "You may have heard I run with a dangerous crowd/We ain't too pretty, we ain't too proud/We might be laughing a bit too loud/But that never hurt no-one."

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: olddude
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 11:54 PM

She thinks all my joke are corny, convict movies makes her horny
she like kethup on her scrambled eggs
Swears like a sailor when she shaves her legs
Take a lickin keeps on tickin never gonna let her go

In spite of ourselves ... John Prine

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: Gurney
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 10:15 PM

Mo, I've always thought the sub-text of that song is that the singer likes his women, and probably his cars too, not flash but cheap to run.

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: Joe_F
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 10:07 PM

I calls her Sal.
'Er proper name is Sairer.
An' yer may find a gal
As you'd consider fairer.
She ain't an angel. She can start
A-jawin' till it makes yer smartl
She's just a woman, bless 'er 'eart,
Is my old gal!

We've been together now for forty years,
An' it don't seem a day too much.
There ain't a lady livin' in the land
As I'd swop for my dear old Dutch....

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: meself
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 08:45 PM

Now I'm confused. But then, I'm a fairly typical man ....

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 07:32 PM

Yes, I'm a fairly typical woman...

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 11:28 AM

Well that's almost certainly how a woman would see it! ;)

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: meself
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 10:43 AM

That strikes me as a rather generous, if not charitable, interpretation. I would have thought it is a straightforward song of attempted seduction - an apt expression of the mentality of your typical teenage boy, perhaps - but coming from a middle-aged man ....

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 06:44 AM

And also, talking about problematic Billy Joel songs, what about "Only The Good Die Young?"

Come out Virginia, don't let me wait,
You Catholic girls start much too late,
Sooner or later it comes down to fate,
I might as well be the one.

Well, they showed you a statue and told you to pray,
They built you a temple and locked you away,
But they never told you the price you could pay,
For things you might have done.
Only the good die young,
That's what I said,
Only the good die young,
Only the good die young...

The song is basically a guy trying to get this girl to come out and let loose, have fun, because she's repressed. He's trying to get her to acknowledge her sexuality as well, but it can be interpreted as him pressuring her or as an anti-Catholic song.
Billy Joel himself stated that an old crush of his was the inspiration for it and that it isn't anti-Catholic.

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 04 Sep 12 - 08:36 PM

And there's Wilmoth Houdini's "Black But Sweet"

She's black and homely and that is all,
She's black and homely and that is all,
When men meet her they're bound to fall,
And say "Oh Mamita, she's sweet oh Lord.

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 12 - 06:00 PM

Songs addressing the beloved's essential quality in spite of some lack of "conventional beauty" are always popular. How many of us absolutely love someone whose best attributes are not immediately visible to the casual observer? And perhaps more to the the point, how many of US are less than beautiful in some idealized/conventional context?

My piano-playing buddy dreads February 14 because of the inordinate number of requests for "My Funny Valentine," a pop standard whose popularity is well-deserved...

Your looks are laughable,
unphotographible...

I think that the word "unphotographible*" hits the nail right on the head. The singer/narrator sees qualities in the beloved ~ rightly so ~ which are invisible to the average stranger.

(I tried ending this word with "ible" and "able"; spellcheck flagged both as incorrect. I guess it's not a legit word either way...)

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 04 Sep 12 - 05:25 AM

Sorry, that should be don't necessarily.

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 04 Sep 12 - 05:20 AM

@DeadHorse: Makeovers ''don't necessarily'' mean someone is cheating on their partner.

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Sep 12 - 04:52 AM

Tom Lehrer said it all:

Sharks gotta swim, and bats gotta fly,
I gotta love one woman till I die.
To Ed or Dick or Bob
She may be just a slob,
But to me, well,
She's my girl.

In winter the bedroom is one large ice cube,
And she squeezes the toothpaste from the middle of the tube.
Her hairs in the sink
Have driven me to drink,
But she's my girl, she's my girl, she's my girl,
And I love her.

The girl that I lament for,
The girl my money's spent for,
The girl my back is bent for,
The girl I owe the rent for,
The girl I gave up lent for
Is the girl that heaven meant for me.

So though for breakfast she makes coffee that tastes like sham ... poo,
I come home for dinner and get peanut butter stew,
Or if I'm in luck,
It's broiled hockey puck,
But, oh well, what the hell,
She's my girl,
And I love her.

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: Dead Horse
Date: 04 Sep 12 - 04:43 AM

One of the first signs of infidelity is your partner getting a 'make-over'. She changes her style to match her new lovers desires.

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 10:53 PM

Maybe I'm a bit biased, because next to Lord Invader and the Mighty Sparrow, Billy Joel is one of my favourite male singers... but I always see it in the way Amos does.

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: Amos
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 03:28 PM

I disagree. The song says (IMHO() that an individual loves another for their heart, way of being, without any of the devices and meretricious behaviors that are the usual criteria for social affection. In this respect it is quite a deep song, because ity implies that one can see deeper into another human being than the physical. The song does not sound sour to me, nor joyless, but quiet and intimate.


A

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 01:12 PM

Hi, Mo. I've always despised that song. The singer is 100% self-absorbed. All he sings about is what he wants and what makes him happy, while the subtext is the threat that if she changes (or wants some new clothes), she will lose him.

You think there's no threat? Tell me this: if he's so happy, why is the song so sour-sounding and joyless?

If you listen to pop songs, you will hear "I love - I want you - I need you" many times.   Rarely will you hear "I'll help you - I'll comfort you - I'll laugh with you." However, the song 'I Love You Just the Way You Are' really scrapes bottom, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: GUEST,loki
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 05:32 AM

"you don't drive a big fast car
and you don't look like a movie star
and on your money we won't get far
but baby, you've got what it takes
to satisfy....."

say no more

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: Mo the caller
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 04:07 AM

Yesssss but......
Won't she prefer it if he thought her conversation WAS clever.

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: Artful Codger
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 12:16 AM

I find acceptance of one in spite of surface blemishes and foibles to be quite comforting, rational and indicative of discernment. The fashions and pretenses people adopt to try to make themselves "attractive", in my view, mostly achieve the opposite effect. If you have to "go changing to try and please me," you're setting a scenario for failure—you'll never live up to another's ideals. Why can't we encourage people to simply be good, compassionate, constructive, constantly learning and developing—and a terrific lay? [That's rhetorical; the answer is, it doesn't sell "product".] What's wrong with frumpy? It's the norm.

I'll be leading seminars in Sedona on "Embracing the Inner Them" for $250 a seat. "I'm with Frumpy" and "Get Frumpy!" T-shirts $20 extra. ;-}

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: J-boy
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 09:58 PM

But she's always a woman to me.

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: Dead Horse
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 09:12 PM

I dont care what she does, so long as she doesnt step on my blue-suede shoes.

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 06:46 PM

Remember Will's sonnet #130" "My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun..."

~M~

No, not you Mr Fly... The other one!

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: Micca
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 06:29 PM

In the same vein,

I have always been puzzled by a certain pop song
Don't know much about history
Don't know much biology
Don't know much about a science book
Don't know much about the french I took"
and it goes on th detail how DUMB the guy is!!!
how COULD anyone be attracted to ANYONE like that, who is not only Stupid and uneducated, but seems to Glory in it?!!!!

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 06:16 PM

As Shakespeare put it, "Striving to better oft we mar what's well".

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: Joe_F
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 06:11 PM

Nothing dubious about it, IMO. I have always regarded it as part of our natural foolishness (I have recently been listening to Burns's love songs) that lovers think they can do no better than congratulate each other on having won a beauty contest. What they ought to congratulate each other on is having found a compatible conspirator against the whims of Nature & Society.

I'll have to look up that movie.

Subject: RE: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 03:20 PM

Ah ~~ remember the old Jerome Kern & Dorothy Fields song, Just The Way You Look Tonight in Swing Time, 1936. Astaire sings it to Rogers, not realising she is in the bathroom at the time washing her hair, & eventually emerging with her hair in a towel & a face covered in cold cream...

~M~

Subject: Dubious compliment 'the way you are.'
From: Mo the caller
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 02:28 PM

"Don't go trying some new fashion
Don't change the color of your hair
You always have my unspoken passion
Although I might not seem to care

I don't want clever conversation ..."

So what is he saying? She's a bit thick and a frump but he likes her that way.