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At What Point Does The Blues End?

Henry Krinkle 06 Sep 12 - 02:38 PM
Claire M 06 Sep 12 - 03:10 PM
Henry Krinkle 06 Sep 12 - 03:20 PM
Wesley S 06 Sep 12 - 04:27 PM
Bill D 06 Sep 12 - 04:28 PM
Henry Krinkle 06 Sep 12 - 04:35 PM
Will Fly 06 Sep 12 - 05:31 PM
GUEST,Robert Fjord 06 Sep 12 - 05:39 PM
PoppaGator 06 Sep 12 - 05:58 PM
JennieG 06 Sep 12 - 06:06 PM
GUEST,leeneia 06 Sep 12 - 06:13 PM
GUEST,Stim 06 Sep 12 - 06:16 PM
Henry Krinkle 06 Sep 12 - 06:49 PM
gnu 06 Sep 12 - 07:15 PM
Big Al Whittle 06 Sep 12 - 07:46 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 06 Sep 12 - 07:59 PM
Henry Krinkle 06 Sep 12 - 08:24 PM
dick greenhaus 06 Sep 12 - 08:42 PM
Henry Krinkle 06 Sep 12 - 08:44 PM
Henry Krinkle 06 Sep 12 - 08:55 PM
dick greenhaus 06 Sep 12 - 09:02 PM
Bugsy 06 Sep 12 - 10:56 PM
Larry The Radio Guy 06 Sep 12 - 10:57 PM
GUEST,crazy little woman 06 Sep 12 - 11:24 PM
Henry Krinkle 07 Sep 12 - 03:10 AM
GUEST,MATT MILTON 07 Sep 12 - 04:56 AM
Stanron 07 Sep 12 - 05:05 AM
GUEST,matt milton 07 Sep 12 - 05:12 AM
Henry Krinkle 07 Sep 12 - 05:32 AM
Henry Krinkle 07 Sep 12 - 06:29 AM
Big Al Whittle 07 Sep 12 - 06:42 AM
John P 07 Sep 12 - 02:23 PM
radriano 07 Sep 12 - 03:00 PM
Claire M 07 Sep 12 - 03:27 PM
Rusty Dobro 07 Sep 12 - 06:15 PM
Joe_F 07 Sep 12 - 08:45 PM
GUEST,999 07 Sep 12 - 09:23 PM
Don Firth 07 Sep 12 - 09:51 PM
Little Hawk 07 Sep 12 - 11:26 PM
Don Firth 08 Sep 12 - 12:40 PM
Don Firth 08 Sep 12 - 12:56 PM
Little Hawk 08 Sep 12 - 01:15 PM
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Subject: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 02:38 PM

And it just becomes, as Son House called it, monkey junk?
I think modern contemporary blues falls into the category of monkey junk.
Rock and Roll, too. But not Country and Western. It's the real deal. Without deep, real feeling, it's all just monkey junk.
(:-( ))=


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Claire M
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 03:10 PM

Hiya,

When the cd I've got in stops.


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 03:20 PM

And who's your favorite?
(:-( ))=


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 04:27 PM

Some contemporary blues singers are excellent. Steve James comes to mind. Geoff Muldaur too.


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 04:28 PM

" At What Point Does The Blues End?"


When you're dead?


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 04:35 PM

I mean contemporary electric blues. Robert Cray, the Alligator Records sound
( except for Hound Dog Taylor).
(:-( D)=


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 05:31 PM

This is the second time you've come up with a Son House quote about some modern music being 'monkey junk'. Well - so what? I love Son House's music, but that doesn't mean that the old geezer's word is gospel. Nor does it mean that you have to keep quoting it either.

If you don't like any music after Son House, that's your choice. Music doesn't always have to have 'deep feeling' to be loved and enjoyed and to be significant in peoples' lives. I spent years playing 1950s rock'n roll - people danced to it, sang to it, met their partners to it, sang it to their kids. Don't be a snob. As Noel Coward wrote, "Extraordinary how potent cheap music is"...

And if you want to hear a different, modern take on the blues idiom, have a listen to Pig In A Can. You may not like it - I do, and 'monkey junk' (stupid phrase) it ain't.


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: GUEST,Robert Fjord
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 05:39 PM

Well, one thing is for sure, as Son House said, it's all just monkey junk. Except for all country and western which isn't, as Son House said, Monkey Junk.

My favourites are Robert Cray and Stevie Ray Vaughan, but as Son House says, they're just monkey junk. I quite like Lightnin' Hopkins, but as Son House would say, he's not monkey junk.

I wonder if Robert Cray did a country and weatern album, I wonder if it'd be, as Son House said, Monkey Junk?

It's hard to know, these days.

§O:-)


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 05:58 PM

Blues don't never end.

(I suppose, on the other hand, that Monkey Junk is finite, i.e., does end.)


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: JennieG
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 06:06 PM

Perhaps the blues ends when your woman done come home? or when the man you shot in Memphis recovers?

Cheers
JennieG


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 06:13 PM

As long as there are things to feel bad about, and as long as there are blue notes (the unexpected minor intervals in otherwise-major songs), there will be blues.


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 06:16 PM

If you keep repeating that business about "Monkey Junk", then sooner or later we'll hear from "Chongo Chimp", and I don't think any of us wants that.


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 06:49 PM

Everyone can jump in. Chongo, Cheetah, Magilla Gorilla, Lancelot Link, King Kong, Mighty Joe Young, Prez al-Obama, Ellie Mae's chimp, Bonzo, etc.
(:-( ))=


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: gnu
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 07:15 PM

November 6.


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 07:46 PM

I'd say half way up Gravelly Road. Digbeth to Erdington - that's Blues territory. Aston to Handsworth via Perry Common - that's Aston Villa terriyory.

When you get into Handsworth Wood - you're perilously close to West Bromwich Albion.


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 07:59 PM

The blues end where the violets begin.


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 08:24 PM

Four more years of monkey junk?
(:-( o)=


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 08:42 PM

My God-
Some folks can't seem to stick to the thread topic---even if it's their own thread.


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 08:44 PM

I'm a rambler but not a gambler.
Right gnu?
(:-( ))=


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 08:55 PM

Anyhow, when does it stop bein' blues and becomes jazz? R&B?Rock and Roll?Rap?C&W?
(:-( 0)=


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 09:02 PM

For CRissakes, if you're going to pigeonhole music (or anything else) define your damn pigeonholes.


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Bugsy
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 10:56 PM

If we're going to go by quotes from old blues players, then if you consider the oft times quote of Brownie McGee, "I AM the Blues", Brownie's now dead so the Blues has ended.

Nuff Said.

That is, of course unless SON HOUSE said Brownie was "Monkey Junk"

Cheers

Bugsy


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Larry The Radio Guy
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 10:57 PM

When is the blues no longer blues?   Maybe it's similar to the philosophy 101 question of when a car is no longer a car. When it has no steering wheel? tires? etc. etc.   You keep taking things away and pretty soon there come a point when it's something else.

Same with the blues. What is it's essence?   

I think that as long as it follows the basic 12 or 16 bar blues progression, it's still blues. The more it deviates, the more questionable it is.

Modern contemporary blues is still blues. Even, if by Henry's definition it's not good blues and he doesn't perceive any 'genuine feeling'.   

So monkey junk may be another genre of blues.

It might make a great title for a blues cd, actually.


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 11:24 PM

I understand the blues now.

"Were this classical music being discussed, the dominant (major-minor) seventh chord on the tonic would almost certainly resolve elsewhere (rather than being resolved to), especially its subdominant (from C7: to F). While, at first, it seems to resolve well to the subdominant, this is merely a tonicization (brief leave to another key), because of the earlier emphasis on the dominant seventh (C7), and because of the dominant seventh that appears on the subdominant, an element found in the Dorian mode."

Now we can all go out for a beer.


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 03:10 AM

No. The earliest blues had no chord changes. It has to be something else.
(:-( ))=


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: GUEST,MATT MILTON
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 04:56 AM

I'm really not into electric blues, and I really HATE stuff like Kenny Wayne Shepherd and Walter Trout and Joe Bonamassa, which is what most blues festivals, radio shows and magazines seem to think IS the blues today.

So I kind of agree with some of the sentiment of the initial post.

BUT there are nonetheless some really interesting acoustic (and even some electric) blues players playing today. Namely:

Samuel James
Duke Garwood
Blind Boy Paxton
Mr David Viner
Bob Log III
Jack Day
Made For Chickens By Robots
Bob Meyer
Errol Linton
Mark Harrison
Possessed by Paul James
Hank Haint
Honkyfinger

...off the top of my head...


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Stanron
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 05:05 AM

Well I still recon that the 'Monkey Junk' comment was Sun House being grumpy because a load of snotty nosed white kids came along and made more money at it than he did.


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 05:12 AM

The other week I made a Spotify playlist to prove to someone that blues in Britain was not all people trying to ape Eric Clapton or Robert Cray.

I cheated slightly, in that some people in the list are more "old-time Americana" than blues. But then again, you could say the same thing for plenty of Mississippi John Hurt or Rev Gary Davis or Pink Anderson material. Or Robert Johnson's song 'Hot Tamales'.

The blues was never just about a 12-bar three-chord progression thing; it was only really electric blues that set that in stone. Proper old blues fingerpickers are much more harmonically sophisticated than they're given credit for.

But I digress...

have a clicky:

Spotify playlist of new(ish) British blues


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 05:32 AM

There are always great blues out there. But they promote mediocrity. And use it to sell cars and crap. Monkey junk sells.
(:-( ))=


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 06:29 AM

Muddy Waters said that the blues are about one man and his guitar. Maybe after he went electric he was playing monkey junk. But it sure sounded good. I think alot of Willie Dixon's songs are monkey junk.
(:-( ))=


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 06:42 AM

as soon as they've found a way to classify it, they'll tax it.....then ban it.


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: John P
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 02:23 PM

When Henry Krinkle goes away.


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: radriano
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 03:00 PM

When you feel happy again.


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Claire M
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 03:27 PM

Hiya,

Who's my favourite?? I like Son House, a dear friend gave me one of his cds. I like Robert Johnson too. Gary Moore, & later Joe Bonamassa, made me sit up & take notice, & in the case of the former, really embarrass myself.

If it was possible (it's sadly not) I'd move to the Mississippi Delta & stay there.

I even wrote my own blues song once, but unless you know who Gene Hunt is/was it won't make much sense.


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 06:15 PM

Who is this junkie monk, anyway?


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Joe_F
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 08:45 PM

When you've been down so long it seems like up to you.


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 09:23 PM

I haven't posted to this thread because I know little about blues. Well, maybe a bit. But it is not a music I play in the house. Different head space I guess. I really dislike stock stuff like "Well, I woke up this mo'ning, feelin' uneasy in my head [do as you wish with 'uneasy in my head' but be sure you do it in five syllables]" because I have always felt any real blues man would have awakened after 2:00 pm. But you listen to the voices of the masters--they who will be different for all of us--and ya just know that man or woman has been there, done that and probably didn't have the business acumen to print the damned t-shirts.

Blues seems to me to be an unending cycle (or spiral, or helixical structure, or tornadoes from the ground up) of new people entering the genre. The ones who make it into modern folklore--maybe they ain't got the blues, but they definitely know about it. From a listener's point of view, a terribly mixed metaphor from a guy who don't know what a meta is, I can live with that. There are some heavy-duty knowledgeable people here, and I am enjoying following this thread.


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 09:51 PM

I've heard Lightnin' Hopkins, Mance Lipscomb, and Mississippi John Hurt in person, so I think I have a fair idea of what constitutes "blues."

"Monkey junk?" I have no idea what Henry Krinkle is talking about.

I don't think he does, either.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 11:26 PM

For me the Blues ends when I get tired of it and walk out the door. Generally speaking that doesn't take too long, although there are some people who do it awfully well, that's for sure. But it's not really my taste in music.


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 12:40 PM

During the Seattle World's Fair in 1962, while I was singing in the UN Pavilion concerts, Bob Clark, who ran "The Place Next Door" where I usually sang, hired Jesse Fuller to sing there for two weeks.

While he was here in Seattle, I had a chance to sit and swap songs with him at a private party one evening.

Fantastic!!

Here he is, in action:   CLICKY.

Don Firth

P. S. I'm not quite sure if Jesse actually qualifies as "blues." His stuff is usually pretty up-tempo and sort of "perky." But he's for real.

One evening at The Place, as he was introducing "John Henry," he commented, "I hafta kinda smile at some of these college boys these days singin' about being a 'steel drivin' man.' 'Cause I have drove some!"


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 12:56 PM

Yeah, Little Hawk, I enjoy blues when it's done by good practitioners thereof, but with some folks, it can wear kinda thin after a bit.

I don't do blues myself, not because I don't like it when it's well-done, but because I stink at it. Ballads, sea songs, lyrical-type folk songs make up most of my repertoire. Plus a few selected poems that have been set to music (Richard Dyer-Bennet's setting of Byron's "So We'll Go No More A-roving," for example). In fact, I do a lot of the same stuff the R.D-B does, but my singing voice is entirely different. I'm a low bass-baritone.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: At What Point Does The Blues End?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 01:15 PM

I'm not much good at Blues either. I think my basic tastes and repertoire are fairly much in the same ballpark as yours. Now, Bobert, HE can do the Blues!


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