BS: Trouble in Democratopia

Subject: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 10:21 PM

Well well well. It had to happen.

Seems like the Chicago Democrats in charge and the Unions that they owe their career to can't seem to get along.

Is it because Ideologues are dysfunctional?

Rahmbo vs. the Teachers Union

The average Chicago teacher makes $76,450, nearly 30% more than the typical private sector worker in Cook Countyâ€"and teachers work two months less a year. Their last five-year contract called for 4% annual raises. However, the district rescinded teachers' raises last year because its deficit ballooned to $700 million. Its deficit is projected to grow to more than $1 billion in the next two years due to soaring pension costs. Teachers can retire at age 60 with an annuity equal to 75% of their highest average salary, meaning that teachers earn more in retirement than most Chicagoans do on the job.

The union is demanding a 30% raise over the next two years and class sizes capped at 23 students. Mr. Emanuel [net worth $12 million] wants to give teachers a 2% raise next year and establish a merit pay pilot program. The unions say they're entitled to more money since the district is requiring teachers to work 90 more minutes a day and 10 more days a year. A new lawâ€"which the state legislature passed almost unanimously last yearâ€"allows the district to impose such changes unilaterally.

Teachers want a bevy of other perks guaranteed in their contracts, which would cost the district an additional $800 million. The union says the city could pay for the new contract by raising taxes on the rich and corporations, but schools' main source of local funding is property taxesâ€"which would have to rise by 75% to meet all of the union's demands.

Even so, the mayor and school district still have to bargain with the union over other changes to their contracts, including wages, benefits, work rules and seniority. Since the parties haven't been able to reach an agreement on many of these provisions, an independent arbitrator has been tasked with "fact-finding" and recommending a resolution.

More Here

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 10:24 PM

Blow me........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 10:40 PM

Rham Emmanuel ideologue?

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

Good one!

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 11:19 PM

I keep tellin' ya, Spaw....

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: GUEST,marks (on the road)
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 11:26 PM

Sounds like a job I would be happy to take! Sure is better than what I have right now!
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 12:09 AM

Don't do it, man. They have even more lucrative jobs in the Far North for people with the courage to sex musk oxen. No, you don't have sex with them! You merely have to establish their gender by conducting a close physical examination of each musk ox. It's similar in some ways to being a chicken sexer, only much more exciting and challenging, and the scenery is absolutely amazing!

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 02:01 AM

FYI, Little Hawk is being facetious. Musk oxen are 'sexed' primarily by observation of the growth and pattern of the horns.

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 06:47 AM

Blow me again.......

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: GUEST,marks (on the road)
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 09:45 AM

Ebbie
Does that mean that you sex musk oxen be seeing if they are horney?

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 09:54 AM

WIN!
New the OP even before clicking the link.

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 11:33 AM

Rahm is generally competent, but he is misguided on this one. He has good 'intentions', but the type of evaluations proposed for teachers just is not fair or workable.

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 12:26 PM

Oddly enough, (or maybe not so oddly) the very same kind of crisis has just arisen between politicians and teachers in my province of Ontario, Canada. It was in the news yesterday. (Note, Sawzaw: There are no Democrats in Ontario) (unless they're up here on vacation, which doesn't count). The Liberal Party of Canada is in power at the moment in this province. They're sort of vaguely like the Democrats, only usually not so far to the Right, I'd say. Anyway, the Liberal Premier of Ontario, Dalton McGinty, is at war with the teachers and some other unions right now, because he just passed legislation freezing their wages at present levels and denying them their constitutional rights to go on strike for the next 2 years.

****

From the news today:

The premier reminded them their "beef" is with the Liberal government and not students in classrooms.

"Teachers can do whatever they want, of course, at election time. What I'm saying is let's save it for election time," he said.

It was his first media availability since his minority Liberals joined forces with the Progressive Conservatives Tuesday to ram through legislation freezing teachers' wages, banning strikes for two years, cutting sick days in half to 10 annually, and ending the practice of banking sick days to cash them out upon retirement.

In response, some 136,000 Elementary Teachers Federation of Ontario and Ontario Secondary School Teachers' Federation members have launched a one-day protest across the province.

They're refusing to do voluntary extracurricular activities and high school teachers are wearing black clothes or black armbands.

*****


What all this amounts to is fairly simple. All the major political parties in North America have been moving sharply to the Right for the past 2 to 3 decades...basically ever since the beginning of the Reagan era. They are busting the unions, dismantling the public sector, supporting foreign intervention and foreign wars, abrogating constitutional and civil rights, reducing the tax burden on rich people (but not on other people), transferring public costs from central government to cities, towns, and municipalities (who are then forced to raise their taxes or reduce their social services...usually both), etc.

The Ontario Liberals have now adopted the general program of their primary opponents, the Conservative Party...and this will, of course, force the Conservatives to move even farther to the Right in order to seem like an alternative. ;-) The Democrats have played the same move-to-the-right game in the USA ever since the Reagan era, moving steadily to the right, and none moreso than Mr Obama, which results in the Republicans having to move SO far right to seem "different" that they have moved into positions of stark insanity.

I think all this has basically been driven by a lunatic monetary policy more than anything else. The chickens came to roost in 2008 with the financial meltdown of Wall Street's Ponzi scheme, but Bush and Obama got together and kicked the can down the road just a little bit farther with their enormous bank bailout, thus delaying the inevitable disaster a little bit longer, and in no way addressing the real problem.

What you have at the polls nowadays is nothing but parties with an extreme rightwing, bank-dominated agenda. You get to choose the one you think is not so far to the Right if you happen to be of the "liberal" persuasion, but what happens when they get in? They do what Tony Blair did, they betray you. Your fear, however, of what their conservative political opponents may do if THEY get in keeps you voting for them regardless. You'll give Obama a break if he engages in foreign wars and bails out bankers and destroys the right of habeus corpus, merely because he's not a Republican. You wouldn't give Bush or Romney that kind of break.

This is what I call "stealth" government. It pretends to be a sheep, but it's a wolf in sheep's clothing. As for the "conservative" parties, like Canada's Conservatives or the USA Republicans, they are totally obvious wolves in wolves clothing, and they make no bones about it.

Either way...you still get a wolf in power after the votes are counted. Is the wolf in sheep's clothing the "lesser evil" of the 2 wolves? Hard to say. After all, it's considerably easier for him to get away with eating the 3 Little Pigs without people raising a ruckus about it, cos he doesn't look like a wolf, and the people who support him don't necessarily notice the fangs...therefore his support base remains relatively intact (although they do get rather discouraged as time goes by).

Can you see how the Wolf Pack is getting what it wants regardless through this adversarial party system?

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 01:23 PM

The editorial pages of the Wall Street Journal are often crap, lies and distortions.
I wouldn't trust those figures about public school teachers.

Rahm doesn't understand teachers and wants to privatize public education ala
Arnie Duncan in Chicago.

Teachers are demanding more than money. They want scarce books for their students,
arts programs which are being cut out, funding for school upkeep and smaller class sizes.
Teachers are treated terribly in this country despite the lies written by the Opinion page
of the Journal.

Other countries treat their teachers as important as doctors or scientists and guess,
they really are. Their pay should be commensurate.

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 01:25 PM

This indicates that there is GOP trouble in Rethuglica whereby the text books are written by corporate shills and non-teachers.

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 03:14 PM

Yes, teachers are among the most important contributors to a society, and they should be very well paid for it. What the neocon (or as it's called in Latin America the neoliberal) movement does is this: it plays on the envy of many other people who earn less than teachers and uses that to give the impression that teachers are being coddled and given all kinds of unfair benefits. This is just more "divide and conquer" strategy by which the rich divide various groups in the middle and lower classes against each other and walk off with the gains for themselves. Similarly, they divide races against each other, religions against each other, genders against each other, age groups against each other, country people against urban people, residents against immigrants, gays against straights, and people of faith against atheists and agnostics.

The more divided the public gets, the stronger is the dominant position of the elite that rules over them, and the elite couldn't care less whether gays marry, babies get aborted or any of the other stuff they use to get people upset with each other. The more they can separate the country into many irreconcilable points of view, the better they like it. It keeps the attention of people off what they are really doing.

This was just as true back in the days of Tammany Hall. The same "divide and conquer" principles applied then, as now, but the geographical reach wasn't as great as it is now. It IS the very essence of multi-party political gamesmanship. If a public is not that divided yet, the parties MUST soon find a way to divide it...and they always do.

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Sawzaw
Date: 13 Sep 12 - 08:14 AM

Why do they buy Right Wing text books for Democratopia?

In Democratopia They have the finest minds in the country involved in public education:

Chicago Annenberg Challenge

The three co-authors of Chicago's winning Annenberg Challenge $49.2 million grant proposal were:

    William Ayers, associate professor of education at the University of Illinois at Chicago; co-director of the Small Schools Workshop; co-director of the Chicago Forum for School Change—an affiliate of the Coalition of Essential Schools;chairman of the Alliance for Better Chicago Schools (ABCs) coalition; former Chicago assistant deputy mayor for education (1989–1990);brother of John Ayers, executive director (1994–2004) of Leadership for Quality Education (an affiliate of the Civic Committee of the Commercial Club of Chicago) and former associate director (1987–1994) of the Civic Committee of the Commercial Club of Chicago; son of Thomas Ayers, former president (1964–1980), chairman and CEO (1973–1980) of Commonwealth Edison and former vice president (1980) of the Chicago School Board
    Anne Hallett, executive director and founder of the Cross-City Campaign for Urban School Reform; former executive director of the Wieboldt Foundation (1986–1993); former executive director of the Citizens Education Center in Seattle (1983–1986); former executive director and founder of the Chicago Panel on School Policy (1982–1983); former chair, founder, and chief lobbyist for Citizens for Fair School Funding in Seattle (1976–1982)    Warren Chapman, senior program officer for education at the Joyce Foundation; former state coordinator at the Illinois State Board of Education for the Illinois Alliance of Essential Schools—a regional center of the Coalition of Essential Schools (1986–1992)
On December 17, 1993, Ayers, Hallet and Chapman met to discuss how to win an Annenberg Challenge grant for Chicago. Hallett and Chapman were already informal pro bono advisors to the national Annenberg Challenge, and over the course of the following year they met repeatedly at Brown University with other Annenberg advisors and worked to ensure that Chicago would be one of the first cities selected to receive a grant......

....The founding Board of Directors of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge as announced in 1995 were:....
    Patricia Albjerg Graham
    Barack Obama, civil rights attorney at Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland; lecturer at the University of Chicago Law School; member of the board of directors of the Joyce Foundation and the Woods Fund of Chicago; winner, Crain's Chicago Business 40 Under 40 award, 1993; former president of the Harvard Law Review (1990–1991); former executive director of the Developing Communities Project (June 1985–May 1988); current President of the United States.....

.....An August 2003 final technical report of the Chicago Annenberg Research Project by the Consortium on Chicago School Research said that while "student achievement improved across Annenberg Challenge schools as it did across the Chicago Public School system as a whole, results suggest that among the schools it supported, the Challenge had little impact on school improvement and student outcomes, with no statistically significant differences between Annenberg and non-Annenberg schools in rates of achievement gain, classroom behavior, student self-efficacy, and social competence."

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Sep 12 - 10:42 AM

I will now end the strike.

I heareby grant the teachers an appeal process in the event of their firing on grounds of failing the adaquacy test.

Now sit down and go back to work.

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Sep 12 - 11:50 AM

"Why do they buy Right Wing text books for Democratopia?"

Well, ONE major reason is that Texas, one of the largest consumers of textbooks, spends a lot of time and effort lobbying textbook distributors.


Texas Conservatives Win Curriculum Change

"After three days of turbulent meetings, the Texas Board of Education on Friday approved a social studies curriculum that will put a conservative stamp on history and economics textbooks, stressing the superiority of American capitalism, questioning the Founding Fathers' commitment to a purely secular government and presenting Republican political philosophies in a more positive light..............The board, whose members are elected, has influence beyond Texas because the state is one of the largest buyers of textbooks."

Yes, it is possible to tailor books to individual states, but doing this digitally is a lot of work for both authors and states, and many, many places just take what is offered.


here is a Google search on Texas + textbooks
http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=texas+textbooks&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest<

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: gnu
Date: 13 Sep 12 - 04:41 PM

"questioning the Founding Fathers' commitment to a purely secular government"

Sick buncha fucks.

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Sep 12 - 09:31 PM

There ARE some intelligent, well-meaning people in Texas.

But these ain't them!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Sep 12 - 10:36 PM

Like Faux News, the argument is used in Texas that 'teaching' Creationism and other Conservative views in schools is being "fair & balanced".... so they seek out textbooks that are biased in favor of muddying the waters.

Authors who try to stay 'reasonable' don't sell as many books.

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Sawzaw
Date: 13 Sep 12 - 10:50 PM

Why do the Democrats in Democratopia give in to Lobbyists? Are they on the take?

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Sep 12 - 11:28 PM

Sawsaw, you should really get someone to take a look at that hole in your head. Do you hear whistling when you ride a bike?

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Sawzaw
Date: 13 Sep 12 - 11:35 PM

What Bike? Do you have an answer about why they buy right wing text books or just Ad Hominem personal attacks?

Have I ever attacked you personally?

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact [or non fact] about the author of or the person.

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Sawzaw
Date: 17 Sep 12 - 10:03 AM

Chicago Teachers Union Sues School Board

Rahm to Sue Chicago Teachers

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Sep 12 - 07:54 AM

Boss Hogg sighted in Chicago

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Sep 12 - 08:26 AM

Well all I can say is this. When money and big business pay the piper, they also call the tune.
So where is this democratopia of which you speak?

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Sep 12 - 03:06 PM

'An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact [or non fact] about the author of or the person'
The key word here is 'irrelevant'. My reading of this thread and others instigated or participated in by you suggests that you are a bigoted and closed minded person who is incapable of even considering any viewpoint but your own. This lack of intellectual honesty makes personal comments on your position entirely valid.

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Stringsinger
Date: 19 Sep 12 - 11:46 AM

After Romney's remarkable gaffes and his donor in Boca offering sex parties,
there is trouble in Republatopia.

What "family values" is Mitt going to sell now?

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble inC
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Sep 12 - 02:14 PM

The strike is over. Democratopia has returned. LOL!!

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Sep 12 - 08:02 PM

GUEST is right about the matter of irrelevance. If one knows the biases of the person making the assertion, one has good reason to question the truth of the assertion.

If I hear it on Fox News or from Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter, I would check the truth of their statements on independent sources.

PERHAPS what they're saying is true. But WHO THEY ARE and having knowledge of their biases and prejudices is reason enough to doubt the veracity of their statements, and calls for independent checking.

The principle of argumentum ad hominem is, of course, valid. But demanding evidence and verification because you have found the person making the assertion to be chronically untrustworthy is ALSO valid.

Philosophy 115--Logic.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Sep 12 - 09:44 PM

Well Sawshit, as this thread is almost done now........One more time so you can stay in practice........

BLOW ME

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Sep 12 - 10:30 PM

The nature and limits of trade union consciousness

The Marxist understanding of the role and nature of Trade Unionism proceeds from the analysis of the laws of motion of the capitalist mode of production itself. Capitalism creates the proletariat by freeing the serf both from feudal rights and duties and from the ownership of any means of production. The proletariat, as a result can only acquire the necessities of life by selling its ability to work, its labour power.

The value of labour power, like that of any commodity, is determined by the amount of labour necessary to create it. In effect this means that the price of labour power (wages) tends always to equal the cost of sustaining the labourer, i.e. the cost of the means of subsistence. Marx's concept of 'subsistence', it must be stressed, was not one of a bare physical minimum. Marx noted of the proletarian, the number and extent of his so called necessary requirements, as also the manner in which they are satisfied, are themselves products of history and depend, therefore, to a great extent on the level of civilization attained by a country, in particular they depend on the conditions in which, and consequently on the habits and expectations with which, the class of free workers has been formed."1

Thus, unlike other commodities, the value of labour power contains a, "historical and moral element" in its determination. In addition, 'subsistence' must be taken to include the means necessary for the recreation of the labourer, the raising and training of children.

The capitalist is driven, by competition from other capitalists, to minimise the price he pays for labour power to its minimum or even below it. To reduce it below its minimum means to physically 'wear out' the working class more quickly than it can reproduce itself. Such a process occurred, as far as the majority of the working class was concerned, in the early period of capitalist production, and has recurred since, under Hitler or Pinochet, for example.

Capitalism, as a crisis ridden system, is incapable of involving the whole of the potential workforce in production on a continuous basis. As a result it creates, what Engels called in 1843; 'a reserve army of labour' the unemployed. This reserve army shrinks and swells with capitalism's booms and slumps, providing a source of blacklegs, and thus a further pressure on the wages of the employed proletariat. Marx further observed that the formal equality that existed between capitalist and individual worker was entirely bogus, concealing as it did capital's monopoly of the means of production and, therefore, of subsistence. Capital is a compact social force against which the individual labourer is powerless...............

Read More Here

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Sep 12 - 12:19 AM

I suggest that Sawzaw be banned forthwith. Not because I am upset about the link he made but that he has shown himself to be totally clueless at what is appropriate in a public forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Sep 12 - 01:33 AM

Does he do anything but try to piss off Bobert?

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Sep 12 - 08:51 AM

Yeah, he's an asshole for all seasons.

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Sep 12 - 12:34 PM

Have you looked at his link? I know there is a big market for porn but I don't want it here.

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Sep 12 - 02:12 PM

I quite agree with you Ebbie...over the link...but surely catspaw and gnu should be severely censured for the use of foul language and innuendo.

I have posted on another thread about the way this forum is "evolving", due to lack of moderation....cursing and personal attacks are becoming commonplace.
Before long sensible debate will be impossible.

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Sep 12 - 02:47 PM

I'd be happy to take anything banning or censure or whatever if at the same time we could stop all these "virtually identical,
ain't nothin' but a troll" type threads.

It is that which has made "sensible debate" impossible ake......and you damn well know it.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Sep 12 - 02:50 PM

I agree (somewhat agree. lol) with you, ake, as to what is happening here. It is true that when emotions run high, tongues run foul but imo foul language is no more persuasive than a more moderate tone. If we drop to the vicious level of many posters in the Comments section of many media articles it will be a great loss to us all.

But porn itself is a far cry from foul language. A pornographic image shows its poster not only to have no self control but a progressively-deficient sense of what is seemly and permitted in a public forum.

My vote: OUT.

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Sep 12 - 03:51 PM

Sorry catspaw, but I really don't understand what you mean by "virtually identical,
ain't nothin' but a troll" type threads.
You say...."and you damn well know it"....but I dont.
I have little in common with saw saw, as far as I can make out, but I don't see the point in responding to his views as you did, in sexual innuendo, which I have no doubt caused him to post the disgusting link.

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Sep 12 - 03:55 PM

Well ake, I hate to offend Ebbie and others so I'll change the approach. They post trash.....I post trash!

Try not to tell me you can't recognize a troll thread! LOL......I needed that laugh.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Sep 12 - 04:08 PM

I tend not to see "trolls" under every bed catspaw, it makes for lazy thinking.
I fact I dont think such an animal exists, the word is commonly used here about anyone who does not fit into the popular mould...or whos arguments are difficult to oppose.

We Scots are supposed to be "clannish".....but we have nothing on the Mudcat "liberals". :0)

In my case being anti "liberal"...certainly does not mean politically conservative.

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Sawzaw
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 07:43 AM

Ebbie:

Do you find this offensive?

Is it suitable for 11 year olds and Grannies?

Is it Civil discourse?

Could I make similar foul personal remarks about you just because I disagree with your opinions?

Is it bullying?

I usually don't get involved with jackasses anymore and especially ones who just copy and paste like the fuckwit above. Seriously Sawshit, why don't you go and kiss Boehner's ass after you've given McConnell a blowjob while he was buttfucked by Cantor.

Spaw
__________

Sawzaw has no whopper.....Everything he has is very tiny......brain, dick, balls................oh wait, I forgot......HUGE asshole!!!!

Spaw
_________

You Guest, G... Think I saw yer mama given head to the town drunk out behind the bowling alley...

Just an opinion, of course... Coulda been someones else's mama....

Get it yet???

You make accusations that, in yer opinion, I'm an anarchist, and guess what...

...yeah, your mom is gonna be in every post I post after each of yer unsubstantuated opinions...

Get it now???

What's good for the goose is also good for the gander...

Get the rules now???

Bobert
____________

Hey Sawzyshortdick. You're an unmitigated asshole. Blow me.

Like that . See?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 01:40 PM

Well mt dear Saws, you may have missed it, but elsewhere I stated I would no longer pester you with "profane" language but I will continue to post trash against your trash. Your opinions are simply a means to your end of starting arguments. I could care less what what you believe but this stupidity of trolling as you obviously do deserves no response except more trash right back.

I will admit that I will miss the succinctness of "Blow Me" but we must move forward........or backward.........or whatever...........***sigh***...........that's so sad............How about just a tiny one for the road?

blow me

......there....that's better..........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 02:44 PM

Sawzaw is whining and posting his trash

Way Hey! blow the Spaw down!

Sawz cuts and pastes from a bottomless stash

Start a new thread and blow the Spaw down!

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 03:41 PM

Democratopia is the wave of the future. Not immediately because the country is being subjected to growing pains but the public by in large is fairly progressive, maybe even more than the elected officials.

It might be there is more trouble in Republatopia.

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 03:53 PM

LOL....Well penned JtS.......BRAVO!


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 04:00 PM

"It might be there is more trouble in Republatopia."

Don't you mean Republageddon?

Or Sodom and Republigomorra?

Subject: RE: BS: Trouble in Democratopia
From: Sawzaw
Date: 08 Oct 12 - 08:39 AM

In the $105 million bond deal, taxpayers in the Poway school district were promised that there would be no tax increases for 40 years. The district was already on the radar screen because the tax revenue it was getting was being eaten up by old loans at those whopping 12.6% interest rates.

But now, the school district doesn't have to pay interest or principal on the bond for 20 years - leaving a $982 million bill for taxpayers at the back end.
The underwriters for the nearly $1 billion Poway bond deal, Stone & Youngberg, a unit of Stifel Nicolaus, and financial advisor Dolinka Group of Irvine, Calif., will get a sweet $1.4 million in total fees.

Citigroup (C), Goldman Sachs (GS), Bank of America/Merrill Lynch (BAC), among others, will split a cool $2.1 million on San Diego's $164 million bond where taxpayers will eventually pay a billion dollars, Farrell notes.

Meanwhile, San Diego County school superintendents, presidents and administrators make a lot of money. More than a dozen average $227,000 in compensation as of 2010, latest data available. The superintendent of the San Diego County Office of Education earned more than $286,000 in base pay that fiscal year.

Poway, home to more than 34,000 students, is also a school district where school administrator and teacher compensation chew up 85% of its annual budget. And its expenses chronically exceed revenues, by nearly $40 million from 2009 to 2011.

In two decades' time, taxpayers in the Poway district will have to start paying about $50 million a year towards the loan - one-fifth of its current $250 million budget. However, right now, the district only receives about $11 million a year from homeowners towards paying off its bonds.

One estimate says the total assessed value of property within the taxed area would have to quadruple just to cover the eventual $1 billion bill for this one bond alone.