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Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)

Dave Hanson 14 Sep 12 - 02:48 AM
Joe Offer 14 Sep 12 - 07:11 AM
Nigel Parsons 14 Sep 12 - 07:44 AM
Dave Hanson 14 Sep 12 - 10:38 AM
Mr Happy 14 Sep 12 - 12:01 PM
GUEST,999 14 Sep 12 - 12:17 PM
Joe Offer 14 Sep 12 - 10:12 PM
Acme 14 Sep 12 - 10:26 PM
GUEST,999 15 Sep 12 - 05:41 AM
Joe Offer 15 Sep 12 - 09:06 PM
GUEST,999 15 Sep 12 - 09:50 PM
Sandra in Sydney 15 Sep 12 - 11:26 PM
Acme 16 Sep 12 - 12:06 AM
Acme 16 Sep 12 - 12:17 AM
Joe Offer 16 Sep 12 - 03:16 AM
Mo the caller 16 Sep 12 - 04:10 AM
Acme 16 Sep 12 - 12:05 PM
GUEST,999 17 Sep 12 - 08:31 AM
maeve 17 Sep 12 - 08:50 AM
JHW 17 Sep 12 - 05:32 PM
JohnInKansas 18 Sep 12 - 01:15 AM
My guru always said 18 Sep 12 - 02:10 AM
Mr Happy 18 Sep 12 - 04:33 AM
Joe Offer 18 Sep 12 - 06:03 AM
Joe Offer 18 Sep 12 - 06:53 AM
Beer 18 Sep 12 - 07:46 AM
GUEST,999 18 Sep 12 - 10:52 AM
Artful Codger 18 Sep 12 - 12:43 PM
GUEST,999 18 Sep 12 - 02:22 PM
GUEST,Interested Observer 18 Sep 12 - 08:42 PM
GUEST,leeneia 19 Sep 12 - 10:05 AM
GUEST 19 Sep 12 - 11:42 AM
GUEST,999 19 Sep 12 - 12:01 PM
GUEST,999 19 Sep 12 - 12:08 PM
Joe Offer 19 Sep 12 - 03:58 PM
Jeri 19 Sep 12 - 04:17 PM
Desert Dancer 19 Sep 12 - 04:22 PM
Joe Offer 19 Sep 12 - 05:13 PM
Sandra in Sydney 20 Sep 12 - 05:43 AM
Beer 20 Sep 12 - 07:26 AM
Acme 22 Sep 12 - 04:51 PM
Acme 02 Oct 12 - 10:16 PM
Joe Offer 03 Oct 12 - 12:10 AM
Susanne (skw) 14 Oct 12 - 12:24 PM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Why
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 14 Sep 12 - 02:48 AM

At this moment there are 57 lyric request threads on the Mudcat what's going on ?

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Sep 12 - 07:11 AM

Very astute observation, Dave.

We have a project going on, working on the Unanswered Requests database. 999 is taking the lead, with rumanci at his side. You're welcome to help. Just take a look at the database and see if there's any you can answer.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Sep 12 - 07:44 AM

In answer to the thread title:

Gilbert O'Sullivan – Why Oh Why Oh Why

Why is it you must be so very cruel to me
In order to be kind?
Why when I hold you close do you insist your toes
Are being stood on by mine?

Why when I kiss your lips do you astound me
Saying that you won't put your arms around me?
No one should be that cold.
Whatever I've done surely I've a right to know.
Oh why, oh why, oh why?

Why is it everytime we visit friends of mine
You never want to go?
Why when I'm feeling good d'you act as if
I should be at an all time low?

Why after all these years we've been together
Must you behave as if we'd hardly ever spoken
Let alone met?
It seems that you're happy as long as I'm upset.
Oh why, oh why, oh why?

Is it that you don't love me? oh why
Have you had enough of me oh why
Oh why, oh why, oh why
Do I have cry myself to sleep
Seven days a week?

La la la la la la......

Why in the name of god are you so angry?
Could it be that you can no longer stand me?
Tell me and I will go.
You're breaking my heart just in case you didn't know
Oh why, oh why, oh why


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 14 Sep 12 - 10:38 AM

OK Joe.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Mr Happy
Date: 14 Sep 12 - 12:01 PM

Only prob is all those asks don't leave much room for other current threads which are pushed out of sight


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Sep 12 - 12:17 PM

Well, it's gotta be done, Mr Happy. The Unanswered Requests are backed up and many have been there for 15 years. Another eight or so days and things will return to normal. I'll only have a few hours to put in on the weekend, so that'll ease it some.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Sep 12 - 10:12 PM

I see that a lot of these threads tell where to find lyrics or a recording, but don't have a post with the lyrics themselves. I hope that means they're a work in progress. We don't consider a request answered until there are actual, complete, source-documented lyrics posted in the request thread.

Too often, when people answer a request with a link, the link goes dead within a short time.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Acme
Date: 14 Sep 12 - 10:26 PM

So maybe I should crack open a few of these books on the wall behind me and see if I can help find a few lyrics? No YouTube links or to fly-by-night blog posts, eh?

SRS


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Sep 12 - 05:41 AM

"Too often, when people answer a request with a link, the link goes dead within a short time.

-Joe-"


Soon as I have done a quick and dirty run-through of the URs, found what's easily available, I will return and go through the URs again and

1) do transcriptions from the Youtube links or any of the others that were 'easy' to locate

2) use what was found to have a place to start some in-depth searching

Some URs are wrongly titled (no one's fault) etc., so I won't have to start a search from scratch. I chose to do it that way because while it is not perfect, it does provide a methodology to attack the problem. The easily located material is being posted as I go, with lyrics on the post. When it's another link, I will know where I stopped looking and be able to start from there on the second go-around. The links that have gone dead did so usually a good time back as in years, not days. I expect to be finished the first go-through from A to Z by the end of the coming week.

Rumanci is now working on the Bs and as she does so she is informing Joe as to new lyrics that have been found in the past week (with thread names and thread numbers from the UR so the located stuff can be entered into the DT), one letter of the alphabet at a time. You should have the As now Joe, and the Bs will be in to you later today (Saturday).

The top researchers who work at stuff regularly are Jim C, Jim D and Q, with no offense to other people who look for lyrics. They are scholars. I ain't. I have Mr Google to use and that's it.

I allotted 15 minutes per title as the limit for any given UR song-search on the first go-through. When a lyric was not found on the first search but a video or some other link that looked promising was, I have posted a link and moved on. I'll be back to that link within a month and do further looking. I'm in the middle of the Os now.

Some threads have two or three LYRIC ADDs, because one thing led to another on the thread. Rumanci pointed out a thread in which the OP asked for lyrics and chords to a song. Three other song lyrics were posted along the way and, AND, the OP's request wasn't answered, but ya'd think it was by the end of the thread. Rumanci is taking care of them as she goes along and then writing clear explanations to Joe.

There have been a few requests in which nothing is clear. One went something like, "I heard a song forty years ago from my uncle. I don't remember the words but I think it was about trees and streams and a beautiful horse or lady." That's a bit exaggerated, but not much. We're noting them also.

I'm keeping track of my mistakes and I'll detail the processes--what did and didn't work--after we're done with the first run-through. Until then, I'm back in the box.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Sep 12 - 09:06 PM

999, are you welcoming people to contribute to these threads by submitting transcriptions, or will that confuse your system?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Sep 12 - 09:50 PM

Hi, Joe. That would be wonderful if any people want to do transcriptions. I'm presently about five URs away from starting the Qs, and it would be a great help. Maeve did one a few days back and it sure helps lighten the load.

Something I would suggest is that people familiar with the language/dialect handle songs in that language/dialect. Most North Americans might not able to do songs in Geordie, and place names present problems for non-native speakers, especially British/Irish place names, and vice versa. However, all help will be gratefully accepted.

At the rate this is going from me, I'll be done the first go-round before next Friday. But rumanci is gonna be at it for at least a month anyway.

So, in a word, YES it would help and NO it wouldn't confuse the system.

The stuff rumanci is doing is a different matter, and I think that would be best left in her hands so it is consistent and you get the info in a manner that doesn't have you having to ask questions about the info you receive.

I just got the word you'll have the Bs tonight.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 15 Sep 12 - 11:26 PM

congratulations to you both

sandra


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Acme
Date: 16 Sep 12 - 12:06 AM

Something to examine and see if there is a useful way to participate, at any rate!

SRS


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Acme
Date: 16 Sep 12 - 12:17 AM

Would it be helpful to have a list of the songs included in some of the obscure books I have here in my father's collection? A scan of the table of contents or if they are listed by their first line would give you a resource to look at for any songs that might have made it to books. I think I mentioned doing something like this when I spoke with Max ages ago about some of the music projects here. Scans can be done for character recognition so they can be searched, and I have the software to do that.

Meanwhile, what is it that Rumanci is doing? I wasn't clear - is she transcribing the songs from these various video sources so they can appear as text, or is she doing something else?

SRS


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Sep 12 - 03:16 AM

Hi, SRS-
It would be very helpful to have indexes posted for your dad's books, as long as we don't have them yet.

Try to ensure that they fit the scope and format of our Songbook Indexing Project. If the books have been indexed by the Traditional Ballad Index or by the Roud Folksong Index, then it might not be worthwhile to index a book.


Rumanci is going through the database of unanswered requests and sending me a list of requests that have been answered, so I can update the database. I guess I'd say that's probably a one-person job. SRS, if you have time to spare, I have a related project for you.

In fact, I have lots of ideas for projects - especially updating PermaThreads, but some other things, too. If anyone wants to volunteer, let me know.

Example: Sandburg's American Songbag is, to my mind, one of the most important early American folk song books. I'd like to see all the songs from the book posted at Mudcat, with links to the songs in this thread (click). I'd also like to see MIDI files for all the melodies in the book.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Mo the caller
Date: 16 Sep 12 - 04:10 AM

How do copyright laws affect posting the lyrics of a song?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Acme
Date: 16 Sep 12 - 12:05 PM

The Sandburg book went out of my hands when we settled my Dad's estate, though my sister sent several books back (the 3 volume Child set, for example). But getting a copy isn't difficult. Good idea - I'll give that one some thought. But before that, I'll look at the lists and indexes and see what you already have.

A few of you might be able to see this - my accounts are ratcheted down pretty tight with all of the nonsense going on elsewhere. And Joe, I think I shared a similar photo some other time. My Dad also had a lot of vertical file material with words of songs, and as Deckman does such good work on his own collection he shames me into getting moving to work on some of this now.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Sep 12 - 08:31 AM

I expect to be finished the run-through of the Unanswered Requests by tomorrow, latest. Then the volume of refreshed threads will decrease substantially. Thanks for your patience.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: maeve
Date: 17 Sep 12 - 08:50 AM

What a wonderful effort!
"Does Mudcat serve a purpose?" YES!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: JHW
Date: 17 Sep 12 - 05:32 PM

That they remain actively up the list is the simple result of interest being shown and posts being added!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Sep 12 - 01:15 AM

It might be suggested (if anyone else might notice) that an individual thread requesting a song may "drop out of sight" and that threads originated "in a clump" may easily become scattered in history if there are comments (re-postings) that don't give all the answer that's wanted.

A single thread (probably a PermaThread that can be edited?), perhaps just with a list of the wanted song titles, but possibly with links to the individual request threads, or to the new ones appearing now, will eventually be helpful for those interested to have one place to go to find what to look for when responses slow down. Editing would seem be needed to purge the ones found, lest the list get too filled with what we already have.

The individual threads are a fine idea to get our attention, but eventually those getting less activity may be just as "lost" as the original requests(?). With our consistent thread title form, of course, a search for "Lyr Req" should find them, but may also bring up quite a few already answered.

We have, I believe, had a PThread (or several) for this purpose; but the compiler(s)/maintainer(s) may have expired from exhaustion, so I wouldn't recommend this "little extra thing" should detract from the effort already working; and if the current plan works well we might get all the answers before a list is needed(?).

John


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: My guru always said
Date: 18 Sep 12 - 02:10 AM

I'm humbled by the amount of work and effort you guys are putting in. Thank You!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Mr Happy
Date: 18 Sep 12 - 04:33 AM

I wonder if any/many of the folk who made lyrics/tune requests are still around & waiting in anticipation?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Sep 12 - 06:03 AM

Actually, we do get a number of pleasantly-surprised responses from people, especially if they've left an e-mail address where I can contact them. Some of those requests are several years old.

The lyrics request threads are for everyone who reads them, not just for those who request the lyrics. Therefore, it's important to give complete answers, and to post complete lyrics even if it's only chords, melody, or background information requested.

We take MIDI or ABC melodies for songs whenever people want to send them. You can post ABC melodies in threads, or e-mail MIDI files to me for posting.

If you post chords for songs, consider using the <pre>
preformat commands
</pre> to help the chords line up with the words.

As much as possible, I combine threads on songs, to avoid splitting the discussion. Sometimes, I delay doing the combination after discussion has died down, so as not to interfere with the discussion.

-Joe Offer-
joe@mudcat.org


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Sep 12 - 06:53 AM

Mo the Caller asks: How do copyright laws affect posting the lyrics of a song?

That's always a matter of opinion, Mo. We contend that lyrics are posted here for discussion and non-commercial use, and usually songwriters haven't minded. Most of the time, songwriters are quite pleased to see their songs posted at Mudcat, especially if the songs are properly transcribed and attributed. Most of the songwriter complaints I've received, have to do with sloppy transcription.


-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Beer
Date: 18 Sep 12 - 07:46 AM

Great job 9 and rum.
adrien


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Sep 12 - 10:52 AM

Thanks, Ad.

Joe, I'm done. Went from A to Z, found stuff that required Google searches. Next, I'm going back to A to now start transcriptions, clean up, etc. FYI.

" to help the chords line up with the words." Joe, what does that mean?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Artful Codger
Date: 18 Sep 12 - 12:43 PM

Re: "to help the chords line up with the words":

Different characters have different widths when posted, and the width varies according to the default font or system each user uses. In particular, spaces tend to be much thinner than other characters. So when you post lyrics with chords from some source into Mudcat, the alignment between words and chords (when placed on lines above, with strings of spaces or tabs between chord symbols) gets thrown off. The only sure way to get chord symbols to line up above words is to force the use of a "monospace" font like Courier New--and this will be different from your source unless your source is something like a plain text file which also uses a monospaced font by default. (Fortunately, the Mudcat text entry area uses a monospaced font, so you can adjust the alignment there. But read on...)

Moreover, in HTML (which is how your text is interpreted when you post to Mudcat), multiple adjacent spaces and tab characters ("whitespace") are coalesced into a single space. If you don't have "Automatic Linebreaks" checked, linebreaks are also considered equivalent to spaces and coalesced as "whitespace" characters.

To force the use of a monospace font and also keep spaces from being coalesced, you can use either PRE or CODE tags around your block of lyrics and chords. I prefer the latter, since PRE may also put spaces in front of your text, which is a particular problem when posting ABCs.

My apologies for the techno-babble and the thread digression.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Sep 12 - 02:22 PM

Thank you, AC. Not digression at all.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Eldorado (Graeme Miles)
From: GUEST,Interested Observer
Date: 18 Sep 12 - 08:42 PM

I was also curious as to why there were, all of a sudden, so many requests for lyrics.

Joe Offer explained and so that was Ok except that as someone else pointed out it does leave less room for current threads. Not sure whether that is a good or bad thing?

What I have noticed is that most of the queries could be sorted out by just a little web effort and maybe just spending a little bit of money.

The people who wrote the songs are surely worth their dues.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Eldorado (Graeme Miles)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 19 Sep 12 - 10:05 AM

Requests can be sorted into two categories. 1) Those by newbies who have no idea how to locate music info on the web 2) genuinely hard to find lyrics, etc.

It took 12 years for someone to find the lyrics and composer of 'Adieu Madras'. It took 7 years to find the waltz 'Hi Lee Hi Lo.'

As for the people who wrote the songs, if they want money, they should make themselves reachable. I would cheerfully pay Will Holt a reasonable fee for 'Adieu Madras,' but he's not accessible.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Adieu Madras (recorded by Leon Bibb)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 12 - 11:42 AM

Leeneia is correct about that. The song was recorded and released to the public. We are part of that public. There are from time to time some folks who don't want a particular lyric on the site. All they have to do to get the lyric removed is e-mail Joe. (I did so myself one time because despite a few people having recorded that song, I think it's crap writing. It was MY crap writing. Joe removed the lyric.)

As for Lyric Req popping up recently, I went through about 1,100 Unanswered Requests looking for easy-to-find material. (Understand that "easy to find" is a relative term. It took me about ten days and I was able to locate about 80 or so song lyrics and 30 others that will require transcription from sound files on Youtube.)

As for Lyr Req taking the place of other more recent stuff, that's life. Mudcat has become a way for people to communicate with each other, but before that it was a place to locate lyrics. I have spent many hours digging around unanswered requests and this was a blitz to go through the whole damned thing and get some stuff sorted. I spent about 60 hours doing so. If anyone wants to speak with me about it, e-mail me so I can personally tell you to GFY.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Adieu Madras (recorded by Leon Bibb)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Sep 12 - 12:01 PM

That was me in the last post. I don't mean to be offensive, but about three people have implied that the 'blitz' interfered with their social life or their communication with other members. Sorry, but in the back of my mind I think, "Hey, why not trace the thread that interests you so you can find it when next you log in." Of course, you must be a member, signed in, to do that.

Have a nice day.

Oh, yeah, my e-mail address is

irishancestry at gmail dot com.

My spam filter puts emails that have no subject line directly into trash which I delete daily without opening or reading.

Bruce


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Adieu Madras (recorded by Leon Bibb)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Sep 12 - 12:08 PM

And lest that sound self-aggrandizing, the researchers I admire are Jim Dixon, Jim Carroll and Q. I took on this task to lighten their loads. There are also people like Maeve and Rumanci who take care of stuff too, and of course Joe Offer. From time to time a thank you to them wouldn't hurt.



CRAP! I meant to put these posts in the Eldorado (Graeme MIles) lyr req thread. My apologies. (So moved. -Joe Offer-)


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Subject: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Sep 12 - 03:58 PM

999 posted the last three messages in the "Adieu Madras" thread, but said he intended to post them in Graeme Miles "Eldorado" thread; so I moved them there but then thought better of it. I think this entire discussion would fit most appropriately in this thread titled Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?) instead of being split over thread threads, so I hope you don't mind that I'm moved the entire discussion here. "Interested Observer" raised the question in the thread titled Lyr Req: Eldorado (Graeme Miles). I hate to distract from a Graeme Miles thread with this discussion, so I think this is a better home. The question was first raised in the "Why?" thread, so let's keep it there.

It's a question that underlies the very existence of Mudcat, so I think it's a very important question.



-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Sep 12 - 04:17 PM

For the record, threads do not push other threads off the page.
Non-BS threads drop off after no one has posted to them for 24 hours.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 19 Sep 12 - 04:22 PM

Interested Observer, it was pointed out to me once that a thread is up for 24 hours if not refreshed, regardless of how many threads there are, so except perhaps for reducing their visibility by crowding, these additional threads don't affect the lifetime of any others.

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Sep 12 - 05:13 PM

If you look at the first thousand messages in the history of Mudcat, you will find that almost all of them are lyrics requests. The discussion forum was established in 1996 as a supplement to the Digital Tradition Folk Song Database, which had been in existence since 1988 and came to the Mudcat blues website along with the establishment of the forum in 1996. So the first thing that happened was that the Folk quickly overwhelmed the Blues, and even Max became (more-or-less) a Folkie. The forum has become more of a "social networking" location over the years, beginning in about 1999. For a time, the folk music stuff was completely overwhelmed by the "BS" chit-chat, to the point that one could hardly find a music thread since the heavy "BS" activity kept all the non-music threads at the top of the Forum Menu. I was one of those who complained about the music section being lost amidst the BS.

Pene Azul, our programmer at the time, wisely divided the music and non-music sections, and the music threads again became visible. Some complained about that, so members now have the option of seeing threads mixed, in chronological order instead of split into two sections.

It blew me away to see recent complaints that the surge of refreshed lyrics threads was overwhelming the "other stuff." I'm wondering what "other stuff" was affected - the eleven "real or fake" threads active in the last two weeks, perhaps?

Not to worry - the surge of lyrics requests won't last forever, but they have generated some interesting discussions.




"Interested Observer" also says, "What I have noticed is that most of the queries could be sorted out by just a little web effort and maybe just spending a little bit of money. The people who wrote the songs are surely worth their dues."

I went to a house concert the other night. The performers were Keith Kendrick and Sylvia Needham, both Mudcatters. It was a wonderful concert, but I probably wouldn't have gone if I hadn't known about Keith and Sylvia through Mudcat. I paid the $15 admission and bought $60 worth of CDs. There were a number of songs in the concert that intrigued me, so I went to Mudcat when I got home and looked up the lyrics. Sure enough, the lyrics were there - along with interesting discussions of the songs. Should I have paid the songwriters for reading those lyrics, or should Mudcat have paid the songwriters for allowing somebody to post those lyrics? I dunno.

All I know is that I wouldn't have come across any of these songs if it hadn't been for Mudcat. I'd still be going to concerts by Crosby/Stills/Nash, Paul Simon, Peter Paul and (the late) Mary, and the most recent iterations of the Limeliters and the Kingston Trio. I would never heard of Graeme Miles or Bruce Murdoch or Rick Fielding or Webber and Fentiman or so many others. And I would not have experienced Sunday's wonderful performance by Keith Kendrick and Sylvia Needham. Folk music is a small market, not commercially viable on its own. It needs help from volunteer Websites like Mudcat, and lyrics postings are an essential part of Mudcat.


-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 20 Sep 12 - 05:43 AM

well said, Joe

& again, thanks to Bruce for all his work

sandra


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Beer
Date: 20 Sep 12 - 07:26 AM

That was a great read Joe. Thanks for the history lesson. I learned my firt thing at 7:25 a.m.
Adrien


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Acme
Date: 22 Sep 12 - 04:51 PM

Joe, I just found and ordered a used copy (ex libris, but first edition) of The American Songbag. I'll get back to you when it gets here.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Acme
Date: 02 Oct 12 - 10:16 PM

I'm giving this a run today, Joe, on John Henry. OCR then checked characters and words. Following the format that you used on the Boll Weevil song to add it. Let me know if this is what you're looking for. Do you scan the music directly and add it as an image? I see simple melody lines in some of the songs, where in the book he has treble and bass lines and melody line above.

Also, I looked at a couple of books and have identified one (to start with) that isn't indexed in any of the places you linked to. Double check to see if I missed it in the search?

Folk Songs of England, Ireland, Scotland & Wales Selected and Edited by William Cole, with new arrangements for piano and guitar by Norman Monath. Doubleday & Co, Garden City, NY. 1961. This may be a derivative text - the author is apparently involved in creating anthologies on various subjects - on the inside flap it says
From the sensitive and accurate research of William Cole, and the fine and clear musical settings of Norman Monath, to the Handsome colored illustrations by Edward Ardizzone, this book will be a delightful and valuable addition to the library of every folk-song enthusiast.


SRS


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 12:10 AM

SRS is talking about my American Songbag project. I'm trying to ensure that the Sandburg versions of all the songs in that book get posted, and everyone is welcome to help out. Sooner or later, I'd like to have MIDI versions of all the tunes, too. In this case, I've been posting the Sandburg versions in existing threads on the songs I'm posting; but sometimes I will post all the songs from a single source in a single thread (too many for that in this project). If at all possible, I avoid making one-message threads and I do my best to find existing threads for posting additional versions of songs [On the other hand, it's a problem when people post unrelated songs in a single thread]. I put ADD or lyr ADD in the message title, plus the title of the song in Title Case, never ALLCAPS.

Here are the song-posting instructions that are posted in the FAQ:
    we'd love to have any folk lyrics you'd like to post at the Mudcat Cafe. All lyrics that are submitted stay in the forum, and people can find them using our search engines. Many of the lyrics are also "harvested" and included in the Digital Tradition Folk Song Database, which now has lyrics for some 9,000 songs (you can access the database in the blue DigiTrad search box you find on most Mudcat pages).
    If you'd like to post a song, first check that database to see whether it's already there or not. Make sure you put the lyrics in a thread that has a title that's related to the song (like an ongoing thread that's collecting train songs, if that's appropriate; or a thread you start that has the song title as the title of the thread.). The SUBJECT line for the message with the lyrics should include this information:
    Lyr ADD: title of song here

    Ideally, you should follow the Digital Tradition Format:
    • song title on the first line IN ALL CAPS
    • songwriter name (in parentheses) on the second line
    • skip a space
    • then the lyrics
    • skip a space
    • then any notes
    • and then finish off with your initials
    Yes, there are copyright questions, but we leave it to the operators of the Digital Tradition to deal with them. In the meantime, we ask people to feel free to post whatever lyrics they'd like in the Mudcat Forum - keeping in mind that we are primarily a folk and blues site.
When I find lyrics posted in the forum, I standardize the format and make the title bold, so it's easy for the harvesters to find them. I don't "bold" the title for lyrics that are not ready for harvesting or that are incorrect, incomplete, undocumented, or duplicates of what we have already.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Why (why so many active requests?)
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 12:24 PM

What's there to complain of? I think 999 et al. are doing sterling work clearing up old requests. Unfortunately, I don't have as much time to devote to Mudcat as I used to, but no thread ever drops off. It's easy to call up the last 3 or 7 or even 14 days and work upwards from the last thread you looked at (shown in red in my settings).

I first posted to the Mudcat in 1996 and was among those who thought it was overwhelmed by the mass of 'general' threads at one time. I'm very happy with the division and never look at the BS ones. (Though I did today because the name Jimmy Savile caught my eye before resetting my cookie.)

As to the projects Joe could think of: Why not start a thread on "Proposed projects", call for volunteers and report there on the progress of every individual one? This way everybody with some time to spare will be able to find out exactly what needs to be done and where he or she can help. (In two or three years' time it may even be me again.)

So: Many thanks to all involved in this and other Mudcat projects!


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