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Why does everyone assume I'm a man?

MorwenEdhelwen1 13 Oct 12 - 08:56 AM
MorwenEdhelwen1 13 Oct 12 - 08:57 AM
The Borchester Echo 13 Oct 12 - 09:08 AM
meself 13 Oct 12 - 09:12 AM
GUEST,999 13 Oct 12 - 09:16 AM
GUEST 13 Oct 12 - 09:18 AM
GUEST,999 13 Oct 12 - 09:26 AM
GUEST,Grishka 13 Oct 12 - 09:33 AM
Megan L 13 Oct 12 - 09:34 AM
John MacKenzie 13 Oct 12 - 09:38 AM
maeve 13 Oct 12 - 09:41 AM
Amos 13 Oct 12 - 09:42 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 13 Oct 12 - 09:49 AM
Richard Bridge 13 Oct 12 - 09:51 AM
meself 13 Oct 12 - 10:05 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 13 Oct 12 - 10:05 AM
Backwoodsman 13 Oct 12 - 10:19 AM
GUEST,999 13 Oct 12 - 10:29 AM
GUEST,999 13 Oct 12 - 10:30 AM
GUEST,Musket sans shame 13 Oct 12 - 10:33 AM
meself 13 Oct 12 - 10:37 AM
MGM·Lion 13 Oct 12 - 11:02 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 13 Oct 12 - 11:05 AM
Rob Naylor 13 Oct 12 - 11:34 AM
GUEST,Grishka 13 Oct 12 - 11:35 AM
Little Hawk 13 Oct 12 - 11:39 AM
GUEST,999 13 Oct 12 - 12:23 PM
Pete Jennings 13 Oct 12 - 12:59 PM
Megan L 13 Oct 12 - 02:06 PM
GUEST,999 13 Oct 12 - 02:16 PM
GUEST,Marianne S. 13 Oct 12 - 02:36 PM
Janie 13 Oct 12 - 02:55 PM
Ed T 13 Oct 12 - 02:56 PM
gnu 13 Oct 12 - 03:02 PM
Backwoodsman 13 Oct 12 - 03:49 PM
gnu 13 Oct 12 - 04:06 PM
JohnInKansas 13 Oct 12 - 04:10 PM
gnu 13 Oct 12 - 04:49 PM
MGM·Lion 13 Oct 12 - 05:27 PM
GUEST,Grishka 13 Oct 12 - 05:39 PM
MorwenEdhelwen1 13 Oct 12 - 05:53 PM
MorwenEdhelwen1 13 Oct 12 - 06:00 PM
MorwenEdhelwen1 13 Oct 12 - 06:19 PM
Little Hawk 13 Oct 12 - 06:52 PM
Little Hawk 13 Oct 12 - 07:02 PM
meself 13 Oct 12 - 08:31 PM
Janie 13 Oct 12 - 08:33 PM
meself 13 Oct 12 - 08:35 PM
gnu 13 Oct 12 - 09:42 PM
Rapparee 13 Oct 12 - 10:22 PM
Little Hawk 13 Oct 12 - 10:48 PM
Little Hawk 13 Oct 12 - 11:03 PM
Little Hawk 13 Oct 12 - 11:08 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 14 Oct 12 - 03:09 AM
GUEST,Marianne S. 14 Oct 12 - 03:44 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 14 Oct 12 - 05:48 AM
Kit Griffiths 14 Oct 12 - 06:21 AM
MorwenEdhelwen1 14 Oct 12 - 06:22 AM
MorwenEdhelwen1 14 Oct 12 - 06:34 AM
johncharles 14 Oct 12 - 06:36 AM
MorwenEdhelwen1 14 Oct 12 - 06:47 AM
GUEST,Marianne S. 14 Oct 12 - 08:29 AM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Oct 12 - 09:38 AM
MGM·Lion 14 Oct 12 - 09:58 AM
GUEST,999 14 Oct 12 - 10:48 AM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Oct 12 - 12:10 PM
Dave the Gnome 14 Oct 12 - 05:44 PM
Joe_F 14 Oct 12 - 09:31 PM
GUEST,nobody in particular 14 Oct 12 - 10:30 PM
meself 14 Oct 12 - 10:43 PM
GUEST,nobody in particular 14 Oct 12 - 10:47 PM
Megan L 15 Oct 12 - 04:23 AM
Crowhugger 16 Oct 12 - 12:44 PM
Crowhugger 16 Oct 12 - 12:54 PM
gnu 16 Oct 12 - 01:40 PM
meself 16 Oct 12 - 02:06 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 16 Oct 12 - 02:29 PM
GUEST,Marianne S. 17 Oct 12 - 10:36 AM
Little Hawk 17 Oct 12 - 11:21 AM
GUEST,999 17 Oct 12 - 11:27 AM
GUEST,Marianne S. 17 Oct 12 - 01:25 PM
Little Hawk 17 Oct 12 - 01:59 PM
GUEST,amergin 17 Oct 12 - 02:10 PM
Will Fly 17 Oct 12 - 02:13 PM
Little Hawk 17 Oct 12 - 02:51 PM
GUEST,999 17 Oct 12 - 02:59 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 17 Oct 12 - 04:09 PM
GUEST 17 Oct 12 - 04:21 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 17 Oct 12 - 04:37 PM
Dave MacKenzie 17 Oct 12 - 07:55 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 17 Oct 12 - 11:47 PM
GUEST,Chris Murray 20 Oct 12 - 07:21 PM
GUEST 21 Oct 12 - 12:53 AM
GUEST,GUEST 21 Oct 12 - 08:14 PM
YorkshireYankee 22 Oct 12 - 04:22 PM
Arkie 23 Oct 12 - 03:15 PM
ChanteyLass 23 Oct 12 - 09:33 PM
Little Hawk 23 Oct 12 - 11:04 PM
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Subject: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 08:56 AM

Why is it that everywhere I go on the Internet, people assume I'm a man? Is there something "male" about my username or the way I read that makes people assume I'm male? Or is it because most Internet forums tend to have mainly male posters?


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 08:57 AM

Could this please be moved to BS?


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:08 AM

I used to use the handle Countess Richard which (you would imagine) most people on this site, dedicated as it is (allegedly) to traditional music, with Child Ballad No 68. Not so, apparently. "Richard" is a man, innit? Tis patriarchy, pure and simple.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: meself
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:12 AM

Well - a more girly name WOULD make it clearer. Don't know where your user-name comes from - but "Morwen" sounds like it could be the name of one of King Arthur's pals. No offence!


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:16 AM

It confuses people who don't know Tolkien's work.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:18 AM

This thread belongs in BS, btw.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:26 AM

Damn. That was me.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:33 AM

Most people, whether internet users or not, are only casual readers. (Maybe "The Lord of the Rings" has more attentive readers than Mudcat, but many are neither.) Misconceptions abound, in many ways. Do not worry about that; correct us whenever really necessary. (Still, I wonder how someone who claims to have listened to your singing can think you are a man or boy - he should definitely consult an otologist.)

Good forum participants will

  • only answer to threads they have read completely
  • try to understand the previous messages, including the posters' expectations and mindsets
  • if they did not understand something, ask before commenting
  • only write at all if they are reasonably sure to find readers that are interested or really should be
  • state any assumption they make (e.g. "In case you are a man, ...")
  • write clearly, providing all necessary side information so that readers understand
  • write so that readers stay interested
  • reread their own message before sending, preferably wait for another five minutes.
Unfortunately, we do not always follow these rules, but we can all try.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Megan L
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:34 AM

Why should they get confused by a Welsh womans name deriving from morwyn meaning maiden


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:38 AM

Is that like Megan being derived from the French name for car?


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: maeve
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:41 AM

How can a name Tolkien used for a fictional beautiful woman and prior to that derived from a Welsh word meaning "maiden" be any more "girly"?

If the few misunderstandings (for it is not "everyone" who draws the erroneous conclusion) bother you that much simply add a tag to your signature. For example, I sometimes sign myself as "Maeve, in Maine" to clarify which Maeve I am.

I'm sure a moderator will slip this down to the BS section when one of them has time; Ms. Morwen made that request at 08:57 this morning.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Amos
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:42 AM

Not too many cunning linguists out there, I suppose...


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:49 AM

Don't worry Amos, someone is sure to soon get the problem licked.


Hoot


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:51 AM

I think I'd have assumed the Welsh connection. Therefore I'd have assumed female. Probably.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: meself
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 10:05 AM

Jeesh, please excuse my inexcusable ignorance: I could never read more than a few pages of Tolkien and I know absolutely no Welsh - and in Hebrew, my lips are utterly uncircumcised. Being so appallingly under-educated, the name Morwen does not strike me as peculiarly feminine. I am sure, however, that most users of the internet are much more thoroughly versed in Tolkien and in Welsh than I.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 10:05 AM

It never occurred to me that Morwen would be other than female.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 10:19 AM

Me neither.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 10:29 AM

I had the good sense to Google the name. (Tolkien bored me in university.)


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 10:30 AM

Anyway, it looks like lotsa people woke up on the wrong side of the bed today. What are ya gonna do, shit happens.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,Musket sans shame
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 10:33 AM

Man or woman.

The difference between having and talking?









Bollocks


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: meself
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 10:37 AM

Actually, this is better than Monty Python:

"Tis patriarchy, pure and simple."

"Why should they get confused by a Welsh womans name deriving from morwyn meaning maiden"

'How can a name Tolkien used for a fictional beautiful woman and prior to that derived from a Welsh word meaning "maiden" be any more "girly"?'


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 11:02 AM

What is "better than Monty Python", meself? Any string of discrete sentences quoted end-to-end will have something of an absurd feel, won't they? What do you find surreally amusing about this particular set?

~M~


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 11:05 AM

Rowling has replaced Tolkian on the reading lists of the young. Don't hear his works mentioned much any more.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 11:34 AM

I'm with Don here. I assumed she was female immediately because I've never come across any Morwen/ Morwyn/ Morwenn who was a man. I live on the opposite side of the UK from Wales so it's not proximity to Wales that made me assume so.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 11:35 AM

Good point, Q. However, I would not bet that Harry Potter will last equally long.

Mudcatters cannot be expected to know or to google the significance of nicknames. (Neither can they be expected to know the full biography of all "famous" folk singers who post here.) Also, there are posters who deliberately suggest the opposite sex, or try to keep it secret. Usually, but not always, they betray their secret in their messages.

If my above guidelines are followed, frustrating misunderstandings will be reduced to a minimum.

Morwen particularly refers to the anonymous poster in thread 146978 (about whose identity we all have strong suspicions), who claims to have heard her sound file - strange case indeed!


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 11:39 AM

Dang! And here I was thinking that you were a Lemur.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 12:23 PM

I'd like to read that thread, Grishka. Would you link to it, please?


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 12:59 PM

I always read Morwen as a female Welsh Christian name.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Megan L
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 02:06 PM

999 i guess he/she/it is refering to this thread
Morwens singing thread


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 02:16 PM

Thanks, Meg.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,Marianne S.
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 02:36 PM

I know 'Morwen' as the male form of the Cornish name 'Morwenna'


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Janie
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 02:55 PM

Why do you think "everyone" is so familiar with you and your posts as to make assumptions about you at all?

I don't mean that to sound snarky, I just don't know how else to phrase it briefly.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 02:56 PM

I never gave it much thought.

But, I was once confused by a real life person named Pat (and she/he was not from Saturday Night Live). It generally did not matter much, as I wasn't going to take her/him out on a date anyway.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: gnu
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 03:02 PM

I've never read Tokin or Lord of the Things. Apparently one may be able to trace my family name past Ireland on to Wales but I have never heard "Morwen" or any such.

Soooo, I can attest that the assumption of male gender is at least 50/50 when the samples of respondents to the survey are analyized based on the grouping "uneducated". >;-)

I should add that I would certainly consider this name for my first born daughter if my mother was not named Marie... unless that is the equivalent in Welsh.

My first name, Gary, confuses many as well as it is bi-gender. Me? I am definitely all male... so far as I know... yet. >;-D


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 03:49 PM

I've never heard of anyone female called Gary, Gary. But then I've only ever heard of one male called Marion, and he changed his name to John. :-)


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: gnu
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 04:06 PM

Yes, Backwoodsman, Gary is indeed a Celtic name which is bi-gender. "garry" is garden.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 04:10 PM

It is unfortunate that not all names that suggest gender in some places are well enough known everywhere to be clear to all, and as its been suggested that the name in question is of Welsh derivation I must plead ignorance of Welsh traditions as there is no signficant presence of any groups of Welsh peoples anywhere I've been long enough to observe the regional cultures. I've met a very few persons who mentioned having some Welsh background, but all of them had quite "Americanized" names, and yours was not among them.

A method some have used here is to add a clarifying "signature" at the end of each post (something some of us do just out of habit from when we were required to write "formal letters" in gradeschool, perhaps).

Perhaps if you "signed" your posts "Ms Morwen" for a while we'd all catch on eventually? I have read LOTR, but a long time ago and I didn't capture the identities of more than a very few characters in memory.

From a web "bio" of Tolkein characters, you might also consider a signature that includes "dominatrix" although I suspect that characterisation isn't what you had in mind. Imagination may suggest other possibilities particularly suited to your persona.

I'm also a bit puzzled by gnu's comment about "Gary" being bisexual. I've know a number of persons with that name, but all have been male. One such individual was suspected by some of being personally bisexual but I never thought him(?) famous enough to have started a trend, so I'm sure that's not what was meant.

I'm certainly in favor of discussion that dispells ignorance, since I've got such a lot of it I'd like to get rid of.

John


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: gnu
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 04:49 PM

I did not say "bisexual", JiK. But, apparently it's on your mind???

"I've met a very few persons who mentioned having some Welsh background..." Well, that would seem to imply Wales is a very great place to live.

Alas, my family, as the story goes, were throw out of Ireland for sheep stealing and that is why we have an "s" branded onto our name OwenS. Perhaps that is why they left Wales in the first place... IF they did?


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 05:27 PM

We can never quite adjust to the fact that over there Marion is a man's name (John Wayne's real name, no less; and Vernon Dalhart's), while most of your Robins are female.

Plays hell with the Robin Hood and Maid Marian [often spelt Marion also] ballads!

~M~


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 05:39 PM

Megan L (13 Oct 12 - 02:06 PM), correct guess. Actually I know how to link to a thread, but I hoped to build some threshold so that only those go there who are really interested - perhaps not a good idea, admittedly.

"Grishka" ends with an "a", but is a nickname exclusive to male persons, equivalent to "Greg". When there is a mistake about that, and it matters, I will correct it with a brief statement, without exclamation mark.

There are more serious mistakes, at Mudcat and elsewhere. For example, in the BS section some posters are quick to put others into political or philosophical/religous drawers.

Most posters here have a well-promounced gender identity in their messages, so that asking is not necessary, even if the nickname does not give a clue. This certainly applies to Morwen and (so they say) me. Many languages actually force their users to reveal a gender when talking about themselves; in English you can usually hide it. Exceptions include "I want to be an actress/actor and play Hamlet".


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 05:53 PM

@meself: "Morgan" can be either a male or a female name. The only one I've met was a girl.
MarianneS: Morwyn is the male form. -wyn versus -wen. (And I'm not Welsh or speak the language, I just know a bit).

Ms. Morwen Edhelwen


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 06:00 PM

@Janie: I don't mean just here, but everywhere on the internet I've been.

Look here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThereAreNoGirlsOnTheInternet


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 06:19 PM

That's a site I'm very active on.

Ms. Morwen Edhelwen


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 06:52 PM

I was assuming for a long time that TIA (a frequent poster here) was a female, but I think I was mistaken about that. I assumed it was the name Tia, but it seems that it's an acronym (This Is Africa ?).


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 07:02 PM

And then there were some here who assumed I am a woman. And others who assumed I am a rightwinger ("hawk"). Dead wrong in both cases! Was I troubled by this? Oh, yes!!!!! I WAS OUTRAGED! I pounded the keyboard in a frenzy and frothed at the mouth! I demanded a recount! I considered taking legal action and seeking damages...at least 6 figures!

And I am joking... ;-)


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: meself
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 08:31 PM

@Morwen: '@meself: "Morgan" can be either a male or a female name. The only one I've met was a girl.' Why are you telling me this? Perhaps your message is meant for someone else?

)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))


"he/she/it"???

It never occurred to me that Grishka would be other than male - after all, the name IS derived by the Russians from the Greek male name "Gregorios", as well as being a traditionally Scots male name, is it not? And does not one naturally think of Grishka Otrepeyev, the early-eighteenth century Pretender to the throne of Russia? I don't understand how there could be any confusion.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Janie
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 08:33 PM

Does it matter to you, Morwen, or are you simply curious?


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: meself
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 08:35 PM

(I mean, seventeenth-century)!


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: gnu
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:42 PM

Close enough fer all intents and purposes, me. >;-)


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 10:22 PM

Except for pronouns I don't see what difference it makes. You're either an intelligent, thinking, giving human being or you're not.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 10:48 PM

...or you're Chongo!


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 11:03 PM

By the way, I'm trying hard to convince Shane NOT to start a thread entitled "Why does everyone think I'm an idiot?"


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 11:08 PM

He didn't feel comfortable with the word "assume"...he thinks it's rude.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 03:09 AM

Stick to TVTrope. And get back to school.

Perhaps your selections caused our confusion.
Perhaps your choice in songs.

The Downeaster Alexa

And if you work with the rod and the reel
Tell my wife I am trawling Atlantis
And I still have my hands on the wheel


Sheik of Araby
Well I'm the sheik of Araby
Your love belongs to me
Well at night where you're asleep
Into your tent I'll creep.
(Aint never been no female sheik in all the Arbian penensula - though the Emir of Oman is "a little light in his sandals.")

Babalu
You can restore all the dreams that once were mine
If only you'll use some mystic sign.
Ah! Great Babalù! Bring her back to me.

Jean and Dinah
(by MightySparrpw)
Well the girls in town feeling bad
No more Yankees in Trinidad
They going to close down the base for good
Them girls have to make out how they could

"Twilight In Barakeesh"

And while on high,
The silver crescent swings,
Unto his love an Arab rover sings.

True as the blade of my scimitar keen
Staunch as the steel of the shield that I wear,
Is my love, oh Gulnare!
And when my sword on the enemy's rings,
When 'gainst my shield his arrows he wings,
should I false be to thee Gulnare.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

It is now time to register for the next term.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,Marianne S.
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 03:44 AM

I know of two Morwens - not Morwyns - both male. Many people have names which can be either - Hilary, Kerry, Lynn for example.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 05:48 AM

Blodwen
Brangwen
Bronwyn
Ceinwen

"Morwen?"

Seems a no brainer, and none of the above are male forms of ****wenna.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Kit Griffiths
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 06:21 AM

I probably haven't posted here often enough to merit anyone making assumptions either way, but elsewhere people generally take "Kit" as an abbreviation for "Katharine". Which, of course, it is -but, as in my case, it's also a long-standing diminutive of "Christopher".


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 06:22 AM

Gargoyle: Actually, I can't because I'm going to go to TAFE
next year. And no, I'm not sticking to TV Tropes because I like it here.

Downeaster Alexa and Jean and Dinah have been done by women. Mostly by men, but occasionally by women. (Denyse Plummer did Jean and Dinah as part of an old-time medley and I've seen a video of a woman doing Downeaster Alexa) Twilight In Barakeesh is sung by a woman in the original operetta. I'm not even gonna touch what is wrong with you implying The Sheik Of Araby is exclusively sung from a male viewpoint. (The chorus, yes, but not the verses.)   

Plus, this is a folk music forum, and heaps of women sing folk and folk-style songs from a male perspective. And the other way around. It's part of empathy.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 06:34 AM

Here's the proof about Twilight In Barakeesh:

http://archive.org/stream/roseofalgeria00herb#page/84/mode/2up

The vocal score marks the main part as "Sultana." A Sultana is the female ruler of a sultanate, not the wife of a sultan.. The song is about a man, but sung by a woman. (Sidenote: the character of Zoradie also sings "Rose Of The World", addressed from a man to a woman, which in-story is meant to be a poem she found)


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: johncharles
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 06:36 AM

Morwen, on a serious note you may be well advised to consider the nature of internet discussion boards and how much you really want to reveal about yourself.
I say this having looked at other sites which you appear on but which I will not mention here.
john


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 06:47 AM

OK. Several times I've considered posting stuff and thought, "Maybe not."
On another part of that serious note, even if I were to delete everything I've posted, it could still be findable.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,Marianne S.
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 08:29 AM

@Don T

You post a list of female Welsh names and say they are not male versions of a female Cornish name.

Well, no, that's because they are Welsh and female, and therefore by definition not Cornish and male.

No brainer indeed.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 09:38 AM

There's a whole bunch of what were men's names that people nowadays tend to assume are female - Evelyn, Shirley, Robin, Joyce, Enda...

The other way round, which Morwen is complkaining about here, is really pretty unusual.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 09:58 AM

Not when it is a matter of diminutives, McG ~~ Charlie, Sam, Mickey ...


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 10:48 AM

"Why does everyone assume I'm a man?"

I never gave a rat's ass one way or the other, btw.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 12:10 PM

Not when it is a matter of diminutives, McG ~~ Charlie, Sam, Mickey ...

How so? Those are more to be seen as examples of men's names being assigned to women - except that they can be seen as abbreviations of women's names such as Charlotte, Samantha and Michaela rather than Charles, Samuel and Michael. Although until relatively recently those female names never had those abbreviations, which were invariably associated with the male version.

I'm trying to think of any case where it's happened the other way round.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 05:44 PM

I suppose we will all know Mor Wen we lern to spel...

DtG


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Joe_F
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 09:31 PM

Don't worry about what people think of you. They don't do it much.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 10:30 PM

Could it be because you lie on the sofa in your whitey tighties squeezing your volcano?


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: meself
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 10:43 PM

Weird.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 10:47 PM

all day long? even in front of company?

Take no offence, please, I'm just having fun with the topic.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Megan L
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 04:23 AM

To Mackenzie Everyone knows the french car was named after a grumpy auld Scots wifie.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 12:44 PM

Morry, I figured you as female by the style, or maybe content, or maybe both, of your posts, even though I first took "male" from your handle--obviously I'm not a Tolkien fan. It took a few paragraphs worth of posts for me to feel sure after an early general impression of female. I'm also not a linguist so I can't clearly explain the specific clues but women and men do usually speak and write differently.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 12:54 PM

And yes there is still a strong male normative tendecy in society. A bit of drift: As far as I can tell secretarial courses that taught business writing simply taught women to write in a way that is meaningful and acceptable to men. I can't say if current "business writing" courses and workshops do the same these days. Probably to a large extent because although there is more latitude in many business contexts, formal business writing has changed about as much as formal business attire.

Back to regular programming...


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 01:40 PM

Actually, I find formal business writing has changed a great deal in the past 40 40 years, so much in fact that the "name" has been changed to variants of Effective Writing. An example is : Enclosed please find > Here is.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: meself
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 02:06 PM

Hmmmmm - it's curious that, for example, "Enclosed pleased find" would be more "meaningful and acceptable to men", than "Here is" ....


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 02:29 PM

Well! Slap me with a wet fish!!
Sweetums is back!!

Hello, Sweetums!
:0) << Wavey Smiley....


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,Marianne S.
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 10:36 AM

What's that got to do with anything?


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 11:21 AM

Que pasa?


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 11:27 AM

No mucho de nada. Rascarse el culo y el bostezo. ¿Qué tal si?


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,Marianne S.
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 01:25 PM

Elle ne s'intéresse qu'à son propre cul. Elle est jusqu'à elle.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 01:59 PM

Estoy bien, gracias. Pero no puedo encontrar mi perro. El no esta' aqui.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,amergin
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 02:10 PM

I am always astounded that everyone on the internet assumes that I am just a regular dirty old man....instead of the gift from god to all womankind that I truly am....I just don't understand how they can just not know...


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 02:13 PM

I just can't understand why people think I'm a fly...


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 02:51 PM

It's a bird's motto: Have Wings, Will Fly.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 02:59 PM

What's a motto?


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 04:09 PM

Why does everyone assume he's Italian?

What's a motto you, hey........


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 04:21 PM

The line was from The Lion King:

"What's a motto?"

"Nothin'. What's a motto with you?"


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 04:37 PM

Yes, but it was the closest I could find in a song..
Come ON! ;0)


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 07:55 PM

And there's always Nick MacLeod (stand-off for Sale Sharks). I find it strange that someone should be called daughter of son of something!


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 11:47 PM

Have you considered....long (multi year) counseling?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

surrogate trans therapy might also work for the paternal grandfather's step-son if the insurance will cover a close shave with a straight razor.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 07:21 PM

People assume I'm a man too. Can't think why!


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 12:53 AM

i have a similar situation...


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 08:14 PM

Same here! It's like if your username sounds somewhat neutral, you are automatically considered to be male... but yeah, I can't deny that it can be hard to distinguish someone's gender by simply observing their username...


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 04:22 PM

People have assumed I'm male (now & then). I honestly was not trying to pick an opaque nick; I thought it would give folks a better idea of where I'm coming from (so to speak)/who I am than my actual name would - since I'm originally from the US and now live in Yorkshire.

But I realised - when I saw the name "cranky yankee" (or whatever, sorry! don't remember it precisely) - that I assumed the person in question is male... so I guess folks naturally assume "yankee" refers to a man - at least on a personal level. So it goes...

Anyway, in your case, the upshot is that a lot of folks on Mudcat - especially those with little-to-no exposure to Welsh language/culture - will have no clue about what gender the name Morwen should connote.

As for Gargoyle's various comments - try not to take them personally (easier said than done, I know...). He is known on Mudcat for saying things that are unkind, although his content is sometimes helpful/knowledgeable.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Arkie
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 03:15 PM

I encounter more Welsh names these days than in former years which I suspect is due at least in part to time spent on the internet. I am completely baffled by the language and pronunciations. Though it does appear to be a beautiful language. I make no assumptions about the sex implied by a name. Until provided a specific clue, my only assumption is that the name applies to a person. I realize that Chongo might be offended by that assumption. The only Welsh name I can tackle with any degree of certainty is Jones and that being a last name does not carry any gender qualifications. But the western world is not as far removed from gender bias of earlier times as we would like to think.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 09:33 PM

Morwen, I don't know why people assume you are a man, but this thread is making me glad that I chose ChanteyLass as my user name!


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 11:04 PM

You drive a large red tractor?


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