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Why does everyone assume I'm a man?

MorwenEdhelwen1 13 Oct 12 - 08:56 AM
MorwenEdhelwen1 13 Oct 12 - 08:57 AM
The Borchester Echo 13 Oct 12 - 09:08 AM
meself 13 Oct 12 - 09:12 AM
GUEST,999 13 Oct 12 - 09:16 AM
GUEST 13 Oct 12 - 09:18 AM
GUEST,999 13 Oct 12 - 09:26 AM
GUEST,Grishka 13 Oct 12 - 09:33 AM
Megan L 13 Oct 12 - 09:34 AM
John MacKenzie 13 Oct 12 - 09:38 AM
maeve 13 Oct 12 - 09:41 AM
Amos 13 Oct 12 - 09:42 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 13 Oct 12 - 09:49 AM
Richard Bridge 13 Oct 12 - 09:51 AM
meself 13 Oct 12 - 10:05 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 13 Oct 12 - 10:05 AM
Backwoodsman 13 Oct 12 - 10:19 AM
GUEST,999 13 Oct 12 - 10:29 AM
GUEST,999 13 Oct 12 - 10:30 AM
GUEST,Musket sans shame 13 Oct 12 - 10:33 AM
meself 13 Oct 12 - 10:37 AM
MGM·Lion 13 Oct 12 - 11:02 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 13 Oct 12 - 11:05 AM
Rob Naylor 13 Oct 12 - 11:34 AM
GUEST,Grishka 13 Oct 12 - 11:35 AM
Little Hawk 13 Oct 12 - 11:39 AM
GUEST,999 13 Oct 12 - 12:23 PM
Pete Jennings 13 Oct 12 - 12:59 PM
Megan L 13 Oct 12 - 02:06 PM
GUEST,999 13 Oct 12 - 02:16 PM
GUEST,Marianne S. 13 Oct 12 - 02:36 PM
Janie 13 Oct 12 - 02:55 PM
Ed T 13 Oct 12 - 02:56 PM
gnu 13 Oct 12 - 03:02 PM
Backwoodsman 13 Oct 12 - 03:49 PM
gnu 13 Oct 12 - 04:06 PM
JohnInKansas 13 Oct 12 - 04:10 PM
gnu 13 Oct 12 - 04:49 PM
MGM·Lion 13 Oct 12 - 05:27 PM
GUEST,Grishka 13 Oct 12 - 05:39 PM
MorwenEdhelwen1 13 Oct 12 - 05:53 PM
MorwenEdhelwen1 13 Oct 12 - 06:00 PM
MorwenEdhelwen1 13 Oct 12 - 06:19 PM
Little Hawk 13 Oct 12 - 06:52 PM
Little Hawk 13 Oct 12 - 07:02 PM
meself 13 Oct 12 - 08:31 PM
Janie 13 Oct 12 - 08:33 PM
meself 13 Oct 12 - 08:35 PM
gnu 13 Oct 12 - 09:42 PM
Rapparee 13 Oct 12 - 10:22 PM
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Subject: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 08:56 AM

Why is it that everywhere I go on the Internet, people assume I'm a man? Is there something "male" about my username or the way I read that makes people assume I'm male? Or is it because most Internet forums tend to have mainly male posters?


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 08:57 AM

Could this please be moved to BS?


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:08 AM

I used to use the handle Countess Richard which (you would imagine) most people on this site, dedicated as it is (allegedly) to traditional music, with Child Ballad No 68. Not so, apparently. "Richard" is a man, innit? Tis patriarchy, pure and simple.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: meself
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:12 AM

Well - a more girly name WOULD make it clearer. Don't know where your user-name comes from - but "Morwen" sounds like it could be the name of one of King Arthur's pals. No offence!


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:16 AM

It confuses people who don't know Tolkien's work.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:18 AM

This thread belongs in BS, btw.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:26 AM

Damn. That was me.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:33 AM

Most people, whether internet users or not, are only casual readers. (Maybe "The Lord of the Rings" has more attentive readers than Mudcat, but many are neither.) Misconceptions abound, in many ways. Do not worry about that; correct us whenever really necessary. (Still, I wonder how someone who claims to have listened to your singing can think you are a man or boy - he should definitely consult an otologist.)

Good forum participants will

  • only answer to threads they have read completely
  • try to understand the previous messages, including the posters' expectations and mindsets
  • if they did not understand something, ask before commenting
  • only write at all if they are reasonably sure to find readers that are interested or really should be
  • state any assumption they make (e.g. "In case you are a man, ...")
  • write clearly, providing all necessary side information so that readers understand
  • write so that readers stay interested
  • reread their own message before sending, preferably wait for another five minutes.
Unfortunately, we do not always follow these rules, but we can all try.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Megan L
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:34 AM

Why should they get confused by a Welsh womans name deriving from morwyn meaning maiden


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:38 AM

Is that like Megan being derived from the French name for car?


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: maeve
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:41 AM

How can a name Tolkien used for a fictional beautiful woman and prior to that derived from a Welsh word meaning "maiden" be any more "girly"?

If the few misunderstandings (for it is not "everyone" who draws the erroneous conclusion) bother you that much simply add a tag to your signature. For example, I sometimes sign myself as "Maeve, in Maine" to clarify which Maeve I am.

I'm sure a moderator will slip this down to the BS section when one of them has time; Ms. Morwen made that request at 08:57 this morning.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Amos
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:42 AM

Not too many cunning linguists out there, I suppose...


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:49 AM

Don't worry Amos, someone is sure to soon get the problem licked.


Hoot


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:51 AM

I think I'd have assumed the Welsh connection. Therefore I'd have assumed female. Probably.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: meself
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 10:05 AM

Jeesh, please excuse my inexcusable ignorance: I could never read more than a few pages of Tolkien and I know absolutely no Welsh - and in Hebrew, my lips are utterly uncircumcised. Being so appallingly under-educated, the name Morwen does not strike me as peculiarly feminine. I am sure, however, that most users of the internet are much more thoroughly versed in Tolkien and in Welsh than I.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 10:05 AM

It never occurred to me that Morwen would be other than female.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 10:19 AM

Me neither.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 10:29 AM

I had the good sense to Google the name. (Tolkien bored me in university.)


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 10:30 AM

Anyway, it looks like lotsa people woke up on the wrong side of the bed today. What are ya gonna do, shit happens.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,Musket sans shame
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 10:33 AM

Man or woman.

The difference between having and talking?









Bollocks


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: meself
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 10:37 AM

Actually, this is better than Monty Python:

"Tis patriarchy, pure and simple."

"Why should they get confused by a Welsh womans name deriving from morwyn meaning maiden"

'How can a name Tolkien used for a fictional beautiful woman and prior to that derived from a Welsh word meaning "maiden" be any more "girly"?'


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 11:02 AM

What is "better than Monty Python", meself? Any string of discrete sentences quoted end-to-end will have something of an absurd feel, won't they? What do you find surreally amusing about this particular set?

~M~


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 11:05 AM

Rowling has replaced Tolkian on the reading lists of the young. Don't hear his works mentioned much any more.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 11:34 AM

I'm with Don here. I assumed she was female immediately because I've never come across any Morwen/ Morwyn/ Morwenn who was a man. I live on the opposite side of the UK from Wales so it's not proximity to Wales that made me assume so.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 11:35 AM

Good point, Q. However, I would not bet that Harry Potter will last equally long.

Mudcatters cannot be expected to know or to google the significance of nicknames. (Neither can they be expected to know the full biography of all "famous" folk singers who post here.) Also, there are posters who deliberately suggest the opposite sex, or try to keep it secret. Usually, but not always, they betray their secret in their messages.

If my above guidelines are followed, frustrating misunderstandings will be reduced to a minimum.

Morwen particularly refers to the anonymous poster in thread 146978 (about whose identity we all have strong suspicions), who claims to have heard her sound file - strange case indeed!


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 11:39 AM

Dang! And here I was thinking that you were a Lemur.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 12:23 PM

I'd like to read that thread, Grishka. Would you link to it, please?


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 12:59 PM

I always read Morwen as a female Welsh Christian name.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Megan L
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 02:06 PM

999 i guess he/she/it is refering to this thread
Morwens singing thread


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 02:16 PM

Thanks, Meg.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,Marianne S.
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 02:36 PM

I know 'Morwen' as the male form of the Cornish name 'Morwenna'


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Janie
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 02:55 PM

Why do you think "everyone" is so familiar with you and your posts as to make assumptions about you at all?

I don't mean that to sound snarky, I just don't know how else to phrase it briefly.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 02:56 PM

I never gave it much thought.

But, I was once confused by a real life person named Pat (and she/he was not from Saturday Night Live). It generally did not matter much, as I wasn't going to take her/him out on a date anyway.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: gnu
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 03:02 PM

I've never read Tokin or Lord of the Things. Apparently one may be able to trace my family name past Ireland on to Wales but I have never heard "Morwen" or any such.

Soooo, I can attest that the assumption of male gender is at least 50/50 when the samples of respondents to the survey are analyized based on the grouping "uneducated". >;-)

I should add that I would certainly consider this name for my first born daughter if my mother was not named Marie... unless that is the equivalent in Welsh.

My first name, Gary, confuses many as well as it is bi-gender. Me? I am definitely all male... so far as I know... yet. >;-D


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 03:49 PM

I've never heard of anyone female called Gary, Gary. But then I've only ever heard of one male called Marion, and he changed his name to John. :-)


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: gnu
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 04:06 PM

Yes, Backwoodsman, Gary is indeed a Celtic name which is bi-gender. "garry" is garden.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 04:10 PM

It is unfortunate that not all names that suggest gender in some places are well enough known everywhere to be clear to all, and as its been suggested that the name in question is of Welsh derivation I must plead ignorance of Welsh traditions as there is no signficant presence of any groups of Welsh peoples anywhere I've been long enough to observe the regional cultures. I've met a very few persons who mentioned having some Welsh background, but all of them had quite "Americanized" names, and yours was not among them.

A method some have used here is to add a clarifying "signature" at the end of each post (something some of us do just out of habit from when we were required to write "formal letters" in gradeschool, perhaps).

Perhaps if you "signed" your posts "Ms Morwen" for a while we'd all catch on eventually? I have read LOTR, but a long time ago and I didn't capture the identities of more than a very few characters in memory.

From a web "bio" of Tolkein characters, you might also consider a signature that includes "dominatrix" although I suspect that characterisation isn't what you had in mind. Imagination may suggest other possibilities particularly suited to your persona.

I'm also a bit puzzled by gnu's comment about "Gary" being bisexual. I've know a number of persons with that name, but all have been male. One such individual was suspected by some of being personally bisexual but I never thought him(?) famous enough to have started a trend, so I'm sure that's not what was meant.

I'm certainly in favor of discussion that dispells ignorance, since I've got such a lot of it I'd like to get rid of.

John


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: gnu
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 04:49 PM

I did not say "bisexual", JiK. But, apparently it's on your mind???

"I've met a very few persons who mentioned having some Welsh background..." Well, that would seem to imply Wales is a very great place to live.

Alas, my family, as the story goes, were throw out of Ireland for sheep stealing and that is why we have an "s" branded onto our name OwenS. Perhaps that is why they left Wales in the first place... IF they did?


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 05:27 PM

We can never quite adjust to the fact that over there Marion is a man's name (John Wayne's real name, no less; and Vernon Dalhart's), while most of your Robins are female.

Plays hell with the Robin Hood and Maid Marian [often spelt Marion also] ballads!

~M~


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 05:39 PM

Megan L (13 Oct 12 - 02:06 PM), correct guess. Actually I know how to link to a thread, but I hoped to build some threshold so that only those go there who are really interested - perhaps not a good idea, admittedly.

"Grishka" ends with an "a", but is a nickname exclusive to male persons, equivalent to "Greg". When there is a mistake about that, and it matters, I will correct it with a brief statement, without exclamation mark.

There are more serious mistakes, at Mudcat and elsewhere. For example, in the BS section some posters are quick to put others into political or philosophical/religous drawers.

Most posters here have a well-promounced gender identity in their messages, so that asking is not necessary, even if the nickname does not give a clue. This certainly applies to Morwen and (so they say) me. Many languages actually force their users to reveal a gender when talking about themselves; in English you can usually hide it. Exceptions include "I want to be an actress/actor and play Hamlet".


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 05:53 PM

@meself: "Morgan" can be either a male or a female name. The only one I've met was a girl.
MarianneS: Morwyn is the male form. -wyn versus -wen. (And I'm not Welsh or speak the language, I just know a bit).

Ms. Morwen Edhelwen


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 06:00 PM

@Janie: I don't mean just here, but everywhere on the internet I've been.

Look here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThereAreNoGirlsOnTheInternet


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 06:19 PM

That's a site I'm very active on.

Ms. Morwen Edhelwen


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 06:52 PM

I was assuming for a long time that TIA (a frequent poster here) was a female, but I think I was mistaken about that. I assumed it was the name Tia, but it seems that it's an acronym (This Is Africa ?).


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 07:02 PM

And then there were some here who assumed I am a woman. And others who assumed I am a rightwinger ("hawk"). Dead wrong in both cases! Was I troubled by this? Oh, yes!!!!! I WAS OUTRAGED! I pounded the keyboard in a frenzy and frothed at the mouth! I demanded a recount! I considered taking legal action and seeking damages...at least 6 figures!

And I am joking... ;-)


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: meself
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 08:31 PM

@Morwen: '@meself: "Morgan" can be either a male or a female name. The only one I've met was a girl.' Why are you telling me this? Perhaps your message is meant for someone else?

)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))


"he/she/it"???

It never occurred to me that Grishka would be other than male - after all, the name IS derived by the Russians from the Greek male name "Gregorios", as well as being a traditionally Scots male name, is it not? And does not one naturally think of Grishka Otrepeyev, the early-eighteenth century Pretender to the throne of Russia? I don't understand how there could be any confusion.


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Janie
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 08:33 PM

Does it matter to you, Morwen, or are you simply curious?


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: meself
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 08:35 PM

(I mean, seventeenth-century)!


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: gnu
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:42 PM

Close enough fer all intents and purposes, me. >;-)


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Subject: RE: Why does everyone assume I'm a man?
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 10:22 PM

Except for pronouns I don't see what difference it makes. You're either an intelligent, thinking, giving human being or you're not.


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