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Tech: To fix a bum note!

Brakn 16 Oct 12 - 09:54 AM
GUEST,Stim 16 Oct 12 - 10:32 AM
Nigel Paterson 16 Oct 12 - 11:27 AM
GUEST,Ed 16 Oct 12 - 11:53 AM
Stanron 16 Oct 12 - 12:14 PM
GUEST,Stim 16 Oct 12 - 02:08 PM
GUEST,Grishka 16 Oct 12 - 02:30 PM
treewind 16 Oct 12 - 02:45 PM
Brakn 16 Oct 12 - 05:27 PM
Nick 16 Oct 12 - 05:42 PM
JohnInKansas 16 Oct 12 - 07:00 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Oct 12 - 07:07 PM
Nick 16 Oct 12 - 07:29 PM
wordfella 17 Oct 12 - 06:03 PM
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Subject: Tech: To fix a bum note!
From: Brakn
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 09:54 AM

I have an old recording of my late mother playing piano. Unfortunately there are one or two bum notes. They were on old cassttes and I have now recorded them onto disc(mp3). Is there an easy (free) way to edit the bum notes?


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Subject: RE: Tech: To fix a bum note!
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 10:32 AM

Why edit out the notes? The recordings are a memory of your mother, as she was.


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Subject: RE: Tech: To fix a bum note!
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 11:27 AM

I agree with Stim. Treasure the recording for what it is; bum notes & all. Perfection ain't all it's cracked up to be!
                         Musically,
                                        Nigel.


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Subject: RE: Tech: To fix a bum note!
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 11:53 AM

Stim and Nigel, Braken has asked a perfectly reasonable question and your best response is to bemoan him... He won't after all lose the originals by experimenting with a bit of editing.

Anyway, is there a free way to edit the notes? Yes. Audacity would be the obvious choice of program to use. Would it be easy to do? It's difficult to say without knowing exactly what you mean by 'bum notes' and the complexity of the piece.

A couple of suggestions:

If the bum notes are a single wrong notes, you could try to use Audacity's 'Change Pitch' function. (this won't work if it's part of a chord with other right notes as it will change them too)

Alternatively, and probably a better option, if the tune has repeating phrases as nealy all do, copy and replace the mistake with an instance with one when it was well played.

Audacity does have a learning curve, but it's not that steep. My suggestions basically involve highlighting the relevant part and then proceeding as above.

Hope this helps,

Ed


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Subject: RE: Tech: To fix a bum note!
From: Stanron
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 12:14 PM

It should be possible, using a program such as Audacity, to replace one note with another.

You would need to be able to find the right note somewhere else on the recording. It would have to last for the right length of time. You would need to copy the right note and paste it over the wrong note. If the cuts are made at the beginning of notes it is possible to get an undetectable edit. Things get a lot more difficult if more than one note in being played.


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Subject: RE: Tech: To fix a bum note!
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 02:08 PM

Alright, Ed, I suppose I was bemoaning...you are right, however, it can be done without damaging the original(by the way, Brakn, save the original cassette).

Given that, here are my thoughts.

First thing, you'll need to clean up the tape noise. This is important for a couple reasons--first, because a cassette recording is going to have a lot of noise on it, second, because whatever new sounds you record won't have that same noise, and will stick out.

Now, what you want to do is create another track that you're going to ultimately mix with the original in a way that replaces the bad notes with good ones. You'll most likely replace passages, and not just the single notes, because you'll want it to flow more smoothly.

If you're lucky, you'll be able to do what Ed mentioned above, which is to cut and paste the better version of the phrase onto the second track underneath the bad spot, and get rid of the bad notes in the mix.

If you're not lucky, your mom, like many of us, repeated the same mistakes so there is not a clean version of the passage you want. In this case, you'll have to learn the piece (or at least the problem parts) and record them on another track so you can mix them with the original.

I suggest that you look on YouTube for tutorials on editing in what ever program you end up using (Audacity, for instance) watch them, and play around a bit editing simpler things til you start to feel comfortable. It takes the pressure off if you're not learning while you work on something that is important to you.

Warning!! This cutting, pasting, mixing process takes up lots of time, and can get to be addicting. Many of us do it at night, because there's more time then.


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Subject: RE: Tech: To fix a bum note!
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 02:30 PM

Copy & paste is the only method for a non-expert to achieve reasonable results. Pitch changes and newly recorded passages will stick out clearly. The former are not likely to work anyway, since mistakes usually occur when more than one note is to be played simultaneously.

Summary: do not expect perfection. Have fun.


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Subject: RE: Tech: To fix a bum note!
From: treewind
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 02:45 PM

Playing the passage in question on a different piano in a different room with different mic at different distance (etc. etc.) is never going to make as patch that can be used for an inaudible edit.

It is possible you may be able to copy and paste correct repeats of the same phrase from the original recording, though making the edits may require some interactive tweaking which in my experience is hard work in Audacity. I'd do it in Ardour, but that's mainly because I have a studio with that already set up. On Windows, it might be worth downloading an evaluation copy of Reaper. It might even be worth keeping it and paying for it - Reaper comes highly recommended in many quarters...


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Subject: RE: Tech: To fix a bum note!
From: Brakn
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 05:27 PM

Thanks for the helpful info chaps. ;-)


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Subject: RE: Tech: To fix a bum note!
From: Nick
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 05:42 PM

I have used - and bought - Reaper and it would do what you want.

Send me a pm if you want with a link to the mp3 and say which bits you want changed and I'll see whether I could do it.

If it's Les Dawson doing a version of Black and White Rag and putting ALL the notes right then I probably can't help :)


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Subject: RE: Tech: To fix a bum note!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 07:00 PM

As noted, you should save the original recording.

I would also note that you should of course save a copy of the original mp3, or better, make a copy and do the correcting on it, since the digital version is likely to be more durable than the analog tape.

Just copying analog recordings can give differing results, and in some cases makes slight changes to the original, so they can "wear out." Common analog media, like tapes, also can just "die of old age." Analog records just aren't really "archival."

A copy of a digital record, on the other hand, should be an exact copy, and as long as the medium where it's recorded survives you can make an exact copy from it - often even if the first one is on a drive/disk that might be deteriorating.

And when making "corrections" it "just happens" sometimes that the best way to correct a correction that doesn't work out is to start over with a fresh copy from the original.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: To fix a bum note!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 07:07 PM

You probably wouldn't want to help, Nick! :-)


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Subject: RE: Tech: To fix a bum note!
From: Nick
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 07:29 PM

Hi Steve :)

I have a recording of a FANTASTIC player playing a tune that makes me smile so much. He hits one bad note (in the evening) in that tune.

What should I do?


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Subject: RE: Tech: To fix a bum note!
From: wordfella
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 06:03 PM

< It would have to last for the right length of time. You would need to copy the right note and paste it over the wrong note.>

If you use Audition (any version), time and pitch are both adjustable.


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